Twiggidy

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I am an immigrant, so I am not your typical white person. I personally don't have issues with color, I have issues with culture. I don't have a lot of respect for cultures that have been historically unsuccessful, even when independent, and the other way round, so I am not a big fan of half of the world. There is usually a reason for it, besides historical luck (or lack of it). But I judge people based on their own merits.
That's fine FFP. I know you're a smart person but before you start generalizing about African Americans from an immigrant point of view please do some research that doesn't involve reading other anonymous post on SDN. The whole "whiney minority" cliche comes from people who actually think that the Emancipation Proclamation made all things equal in this country, even though there was Reconstruction, lynching, Jim Crow, red-lining, predatory lending, the War on Drugs, etc, etc, etc.

This stuff happens today
More racist text messages uncovered among San Francisco police officers

But I'm just a whiney minority
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/05/10/a-black-yale-student-fell-asleep-in-her-dorms-common-room-a-white-student-called-police/?utm_term=.bc1d39cf2df7

But again, I'm just a whiney minority
 

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wow. Comments like this and some of the others on this thread make you wonder how seemingly intelligent people can go through life with blinders on.
All those successful black people I have seen and met along the years must have actually been white. Darn blinders!
 

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Yes. I think a significant part of why Hillary lost was because she was a woman. Not only, but significant. Also, insults do further the discussion.

Also let's talk real racism not stand up comedy routines.

There you go again with marginalizing the asian experience. You think because asians are successful they haven't endured harsh racism? BTW its not only in stand up comedy routines or movies. Get off your moral high horse.
 
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There you go again with marginalizing the asian experience. You think because asians are successful they haven't endured harsh racism? BTW its not only in stand up comedy routines or movies. Get off your moral high horse.
Hey man, when I was a resident I had a old lady tell me straight to my face she's "rather have an Asian anesthesiologist". So while I do understand and empathize with my Asian brothers and sisters.....c'mon now. Do they empathize with me though?
 

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Yes. I think a significant part of why Hillary lost was because she was a woman. Not only, but significant. Also, insults do further the discussion.

Also let's talk real racism not stand up comedy routines.
First off if anyone but blacks talk about them in a comedy routine then they would get destroyed by the public and media. So don't act like a comedy routine is fair game. Second of all it definitely is not only in movies, tv shows and comedy routines.
 
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I've already or others have already addressed many of the points above.

As far a biases, it's been studied and shown. You can take the time to look them up for yourself.

Make yourself good:
“It’s all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.”
Cruel or not, I know if I try to make it on my own, I am not going to be dependent or at anyone's mercy. I am the one in charge.
 
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That's fine FFP. I know you're a smart person but before you start generalizing about African Americans from an immigrant point of view please do some research that doesn't involve reading other anonymous post on SDN. The whole "whiney minority" cliche comes from people who actually think that the Emancipation Proclamation made all things equal in this country, even though there was Reconstruction, lynching, Jim Crow, red-lining, predatory lending, the War on Drugs, etc, etc, etc.

This stuff happens today
More racist text messages uncovered among San Francisco police officers

But I'm just a whiney minority
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/05/10/a-black-yale-student-fell-asleep-in-her-dorms-common-room-a-white-student-called-police/?utm_term=.bc1d39cf2df7

But again, I'm just a whiney minority
I am not that stupid as to think that a law changes traditions overnight. I am also convinced that there are still tons of racists and haters in this country. But they are pretty equal opportunity providers. You are hated, I am hated, a lot of groups are hated by somebody somewhere. On the other hand, nobody's perfect, not even the self-righteous SJWs. Everybody dislikes some group somewhere, or likes it less than others. It's human nature.

However, I don't think most people are hateful. I think the US is actually getting better and more tolerant. I just don't like when things get rushed, because every action induces reaction, and an increase in speed activates inertia. And that's exactly what we see with trumpism. Trumpism is what happens when a society changes too fast. Too much too soon. Let the haters get used to an idea before pushing it down their throats.
 

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Hey man, when I was a resident I had a old lady tell me straight to my face she's "rather have an Asian anesthesiologist". So while I do understand and empathize with my Asian brothers and sisters.....c'mon now. Do they empathize with me though?
They don't empathize because they would never use history or the illusion of white institutional racism to hold them down. Like someone mentioned before: low single motherhood rate, low divorce rate, heavy emphasis on education, not too complex a formula. The one thing asians were taught which helped them succeed but also become less respected was to be passive and quiet in the face of intimidation and racism. double-edged sword.
 
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Hey man, when I was a resident I had a old lady tell me straight to my face she's "rather have an Asian anesthesiologist". So while I do understand and empathize with my Asian brothers and sisters.....c'mon now. Do they empathize with me though?
did you ask that lady why???
 
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Why would I need to? If some old white lady tells me she wants an Asian anesthesiologist instead of the African American one standing in front of her, she's told me everything I need to know.
and you noticed that old lady was white too??? hmmm....

You should have asked. When you are silent, you are only listening to yourself. She could have told you some truth that you own biases did not allow you to see imho.
 

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Why would I need to? If some old white lady tells me she wants an Asian anesthesiologist instead of the African American one standing in front of her, she's told me everything I need to know.
This was a consequence of that precious affirmative action. This is what you get when Asian kids are refused admission just to get less-performant African kids into universities. They used to ask for Jewish doctors before.

Plus she probably preferred a same-sex physician. Many people do.
 
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Twiggidy

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They don't empathize because they would never use history or the illusion of white institutional racism to hold them down. Like someone mentioned before: low single motherhood rate, low divorce rate, heavy emphasis on education, not too complex a formula. The one thing asians were taught which helped them succeed but also become less respected was to be passive and quiet in the face of intimidation and racism. double-edged sword.
Vast difference in the history of Asian Americans in the US versus African Americans in the US. Im sorry if this offends you, but Asians weren't lynched. Asians didn't have separate water fountains and bath rooms. Why does Howard University exist? Because for the longest time African Americans weren't ALLOWED to go to the white universities.
 

Twiggidy

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and you noticed that old lady was white too??? hmmm....

You should have asked. When you are silent, you are only listening to yourself. She could have told you some truth that you own biases did not allow you to see imho.
I acknowledge a person's race because I respect their race. Saying "I don't see color" is probably this most disrespectful thing someone could say to me. See me as a black man because that's what I am, but if you don't think I'm good enough because I'm a black man then that's another story.
 
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They don't empathize because they would never use history or the illusion of white institutional racism to hold them down. Like someone mentioned before: low single motherhood rate, low divorce rate, heavy emphasis on education, not too complex a formula. The one thing asians were taught which helped them succeed but also become less respected was to be passive and quiet in the face of intimidation and racism. double-edged sword.
Any culture that puts a high emphasis on education and intellectual achievements will overperform. It's been proven again and again.
 
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This was a consequence of that precious affirmative action. This is what you get when Asian kids are refused admission just to get less-performant African kids into universities. They used to ask for Jewish doctors before.

Plus she probably preferred a same-sex physician. Many people do.
So is that what happens? Does everyone I encounter just think I'm an affirmative action case? Because no bloody way could a black man actually do well in school. Clutch the pearls.

and who said she wanted a female physician?
 
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Vast difference in the history of Asian Americans in the US versus African Americans in the US. Im sorry if this offends you, but Asians weren't lynched. Asians didn't have separate water fountains and bath rooms. Why does Howard University exist? Because for the longest time African Americans weren't ALLOWED to go to the white universities.
Neither were Jews. Neither were women.

But, mostly, neither were any poor people who couldn't afford the tuition.
 
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So is that what happens? Does everyone I encounter just think I'm an affirmative action case? Because no bloody way could a black man actually do well in school. Clutch the pearls.

and who said she wanted a female physician?
Dr. Ben Carson experienced this too (The Gifted Hands). But he overcame and proved he was a force so good that nobody could ignore. He took ownership of his actions.
 
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So is that what happens? Does everyone I encounter just think I'm an affirmative action case? Because no bloody way could a black man actually do well in school. Clutch the pearls.

and who said she wanted a female physician?
I think, the poster meant, same-sex = LGBGTQ
 

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So is that what happens? Does everyone I encounter just think I'm an affirmative action case? Because no bloody way could a black man actually do well in school. Clutch the pearls.
They probably don't think that about YOU. I know I don't. But they may about the mediocrities with MD after their name. That's the problem with positive discrimination. One just has to look at @SaltyDog's avatar...

I am still being asked about my studies, just because of my accent (and I am not in Trump country). So are other foreign-born physicians. I tell the patients and usually that's the end of it. Once in a while, some redneck will want "an American doctor". Then their "American" surgeon will put them in their place.
and who said she wanted a female physician?
My mistake, I misread your post.
 
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Dr. Ben Carson experienced this too (The Gifted Hands). But he overcame and proved he was a force so good that nobody could ignore. He took ownership of his actions.
May I say that I have never been impressed by that guy? Had he been white, he would have been ignored as a candidate.

At the same time, I remember seeing Obama back when he was state senator (or maybe running for the US Senate), and being glued to the screen.

And while he's not black (just of color), my favorite beautiful mind is Naval Ravikant.
 
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Twiggidy

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May I say that I have never been impressed by that guy? Had he been white, he would been ignored as a candidate.

At the same time, I remember seeing Obama back when he was state senator (or maybe running for the US Senate), and being glued to the screen.
It's because the right LOVES a black conservative that they can wave in front of other black people to push their agenda. If I go on Twitter and start spewing conservative talking point I'll have 2 million followers and a Fox News segment next week. As you point out, it's never the arguably more successful black man that held the highest office in the country.

This whole thing is about tribalism. It's Republican vs Democrat. No one really cares if any culture makes themselves better, they just want people to vote for THEIR guy on THEIR side.
 
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It's because the right LOVES a black conservative that they can wave in front of other black people to push their agenda. If I go on Twitter and start spewing conservative talking point I'll have 2 million followers and a Fox News segment next week. As you point out, it's never the arguably more successful black man that held the highest office in the country.

This whole thing is about tribalism. It's Republican vs Democrat. No one really cares if any culture makes themselves better, they just want people to vote for THEIR guy on THEIR side.
The same way the Left loves hating the white heterosexual male. That's why I wouldn't vote for most Democratic candidates.
 

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There you go again with marginalizing the asian experience. You think because asians are successful they haven't endured harsh racism? BTW its not only in stand up comedy routines or movies. Get off your moral high horse.
It’s different with black people because the majority of them are descended from people brought here against their will. For Asians and Hispanics it was the exact opposite for the most part.
 

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Many Hispanics are also descended from oppressed native people. American colonists were not the only ones who thought they were superior to other peoples.
Sure but their complaints should be directed elsewhere.
 

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It's ridiculous to think racism is a solved problem because Obama beat McCain/Palin and that other guy who ran against him.

Resumes with blackish names get round filed. Dogs and black men are on their own separate level of legit fear when interacting with the police. The courts and prisons are disproportionately unfriendly to and full of black men. There's compelling evidence that health care given to similarly insured blacks is inferior. In the military, arguably the closest thing to a colorblind meritocracy we've got, the black:white ratio of officer ranks is a whole lot different than the enlisted ranks. It's worth asking why our society has settled out this way, and if that's what we want to be, and if not what to do about it.

I don't think there's much use to this chicken-egg argument about whether rap music and beltless pants and broken single-mom absent-dad black families are the cause of the economic/social/health ills that plague blacks in the US, or a symptom. It's both, and unfortunately some of the undeniably self-inflicted hardships strain sympathy and feed into this wrong-headed rationalization of how the only thing blacks need to do is fix their broken culture and finish school and quit abandoning their pregnant teenage girlfriends and they'd be welcomed into the fold.

So, what to do. Nicely asking everyone to stop being racist doesn't seem to have worked real well.

Criminal justice and prison reform would be a good start, but no R wants to be soft on crime, and let's not forget it was the D's annoited one Hillary Clinton who got everyone anxious about superpredators.

I'm not a fan of affirmative action for universities in part because it's unfair but also because it sets up unqualified students for failure. It tries to give unprepared students an extra chance to succeed academically, when the solution is to fix the schools and othe issues that produced the unprepared high school grads in the first place.

Universal BASIC healthcare is needed, as it would help raise some of the poorest people up a little by making them healthier and offloading some of their economic risk.

Paying public school teachers more would help attract and retain better teachers.

Reparations is a poisoned word. Won't ever happen as long as anyone calls it that. I don't know what the answer is. The Ds running candidates on ridiculous platforms that will lose another election won't help though.
 

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This is the democratic party :

" “The Lion King” offers us fascist ideology writ large, and there seems to be no way out for the forthcoming remake. "

This is the nonsense they spew and yes I read the whole article.
Boring.

How many times do we hear from conservative or religious groups that XYZ show/play/music/etc is trying to indoctrinate people with liberal beliefs? How many times do I hear about someone talking about how some show or play is trying to turn America into some asexual orgy?
 

Twiggidy

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It's ridiculous to think racism is a solved problem because Obama beat McCain/Palin and that other guy who ran against him.

Resumes with blackish names get round filed. Dogs and black men are on their own separate level of legit fear when interacting with the police. The courts and prisons are disproportionately unfriendly to and full of black men. There's compelling evidence that health care given to similarly insured blacks is inferior. In the military, arguably the closest thing to a colorblind meritocracy we've got, the black:white ratio of officer ranks is a whole lot different than the enlisted ranks. It's worth asking why our society has settled out this way, and if that's what we want to be, and if not what to do about it.

I don't think there's much use to this chicken-egg argument about whether rap music and beltless pants and broken single-mom absent-dad black families are the cause of the economic/social/health ills that plague blacks in the US, or a symptom. It's both, and unfortunately some of the undeniably self-inflicted hardships strain sympathy and feed into this wrong-headed rationalization of how the only thing blacks need to do is fix their broken culture and finish school and quit abandoning their pregnant teenage girlfriends and they'd be welcomed into the fold.

So, what to do. Nicely asking everyone to stop being racist doesn't seem to have worked real well.

Criminal justice and prison reform would be a good start, but no R wants to be soft on crime, and let's not forget it was the D's annoited one Hillary Clinton who got everyone anxious about superpredators.

I'm not a fan of affirmative action for universities in part because it's unfair but also because it sets up unqualified students for failure. It tries to give unprepared students an extra chance to succeed academically, when the solution is to fix the schools and othe issues that produced the unprepared high school grads in the first place.

Universal BASIC healthcare is needed, as it would help raise some of the poorest people up a little by making them healthier and offloading some of their economic risk.

Paying public school teachers more would help attract and retain better teachers.

Reparations is a poisoned word. Won't ever happen as long as anyone calls it that. I don't know what the answer is. The Ds running candidates on ridiculous platforms that will lose another election won't help though.
the most correct response of the entire thread
 
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May I say that I have never been impressed by that guy? Had he been white, he would have been ignored as a candidate.

At the same time, I remember seeing Obama back when he was state senator (or maybe running for the US Senate), and being glued to the screen.

And while he's not black (just of color), my favorite beautiful mind is Naval Ravikant.
as a doctor, he is impressive imho.
 

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I am an immigrant, so I am not your typical white person. I personally don't have issues with color, I have issues with culture. I don't have a lot of respect for cultures that have been historically unsuccessful, even when independent, and the other way round, so I am not a big fan of half of the world. There is usually a reason for it, besides historical luck (or lack of it). This is why I don't like when people try to impose their own retrograde cultures as immigrants.

But I judge people based on their own merits.
I’m fine with cold-hearted Darwinism. We are just animals, after all. However, I’m curious as to why you pursued medicine, which is probably the most “anti-Darwin” profession.

I understand not liking cultures that are historically unsuccessful, but blacks in America were systemically oppressed for centuries. Reparations are not about punishment for slavery, but more about trying to create an even playing field for a culture that missed out on generations of buying property, starting businesses, and passing down wealth to heirs. It’s like a basketball team starting the game with the other team awarded 100 points already. I also don’t care about people that were oppressed in other countries. It’s not about righting a wrong, but rather giving the citizens of our country an even playing field of opportunity.

The idea of merit doesn’t hold much weight for me when I see rich kids carrying their Kaplan books to the SAT. Our society is not based on merit, but rather wealth.
 

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I’m fine with cold-hearted Darwinism. We are just animals, after all. However, I’m curious as to why you pursued medicine, which is probably the most “anti-Darwin” profession.

I understand not liking cultures that are historically unsuccessful, but blacks in America were systemically oppressed for centuries. Reparations are not about punishment for slavery, but more about trying to create an even playing field for a culture that missed out on generations of buying property, starting businesses, and passing down wealth to heirs. It’s like a basketball team starting the game with the other team awarded 100 points already. I also don’t care about people that were oppressed in other countries. It’s not about righting a wrong, but rather giving the citizens of our country an even playing field of opportunity.

The idea of merit doesn’t hold much weight for me when I see rich kids carrying their Kaplan books to the SAT. Our society is not based on merit, but rather wealth.
I went to medical school because that's what the smartest kids in my country did (and the things that I was passionate about did not offer a comparable future). One of my parents was also a physician, so I had a very good idea what I was getting into. I was also good at exact and natural sciences, including biology. I had all the intellectual skills of a good doctor, without being a people person or people lover. I was a valedictorian in a top school; I could have become whatever the heck I wanted (and I actually have a second major in an unrelated field I was really passionate about).

I didn't go into medicine to "help people" and other American essayistic bull excrement. I went into it because I thought it was cool and special, and because I thought I could be good at it (this probably applies to many foreign physicians). I came to enjoy helping people because I am a good guy deep inside, and it gives me the same great satisfaction that has motivated my parent, too. The fact that my parent (who's very loved by patients) thinks I am a much better physician makes me extremely proud.

On-topic, I am all for equality of opportunities for kids (e.g. all K-12 schools should have THE SAME federal budgets per student). I am the product of equal opportunity free/cheap public education AND a tiger mother. The equivalent of an A- would have resulted in a lot of screaming and punishment.

Reparations won't fix the culture and the outcomes. Good education and hard work will. Look at what Native Americans have done with their casino money.

I am not a cold and calculated social Darwinist (or anything else). I am a pretty nice and warm person, despite my cynicism. But I am the kind of guy who wants to see the person get half there, on his/her own, before I help him/her with the other half.
 
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@FFP : I read your post earlier but did not get to reply. You deleted it because?

anyway, regarding what you posted about Dr. Carson's West Point lies, here is some reporting from the Time,

"He does not write in the book that he applied to the school. Students who are accepted to West Point, a U.S. Military Academy, do not pay tuition. The Politico story claimed that Carson had “fabricated” his “application and acceptance” into the U.S. Military Academy. (Hours after the initial publication Friday, Politico updated its story to remove the claim that Carson had fabricated his application and acceptance into West Point.)"


regarding Dr. Carson, before his campaign, he was everyone's hero. Places were named after him, movies was made about him. As soon as he announced that he was a conservative running for President, then people started smearing him.


By the way you are describing him, by now people would think that his being the youngest chief of neurosurgery in the country at Hopkins at 33 is a lie too.

for his paid speeches, he was not the most promising star in the race on the Republican side in 2016. Nothing that you pointed out about that proves a corruption. Not much same can be said for Hillary though. So I think you should focus on Hillary. You and I are on the same page there.

Check out Biden and Warren if you would like to see corruption and fraud.

As for working a Secretary of HUD with "zero qualifications", it is not necessary so. The point is to get smart / bright people who can learn and adapt and act quickly into the job. I have seen cases of doctors or physicists or mathematicians got recruited and hired in the financial sector with no finanical degree or training beforehand.

BTW, I have a screen shot of your original post here for referenceScreen Shot 2019-07-11 at 5.16.29 PM.png :)
 
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@olabrador23, the reason I deleted my post was not that I changed my opinions about Ben Carson. The man is very much like Trump. I had at least one reason that I will not share (beyond it being offtopic and others). However, you posting a screenshot of it, despite knowing I had deleted it, reeks of disrespect, and speaks more of you than me. ;)

You want to have the last word? Go ahead. I have nothing to prove to anybody except myself. Welcome to the "dean's list".
 
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vector2

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It's ridiculous to think racism is a solved problem because Obama beat McCain/Palin and that other guy who ran against him.

Resumes with blackish names get round filed. Dogs and black men are on their own separate level of legit fear when interacting with the police. The courts and prisons are disproportionately unfriendly to and full of black men. There's compelling evidence that health care given to similarly insured blacks is inferior. In the military, arguably the closest thing to a colorblind meritocracy we've got, the black:white ratio of officer ranks is a whole lot different than the enlisted ranks. It's worth asking why our society has settled out this way, and if that's what we want to be, and if not what to do about it.

I don't think there's much use to this chicken-egg argument about whether rap music and beltless pants and broken single-mom absent-dad black families are the cause of the economic/social/health ills that plague blacks in the US, or a symptom. It's both, and unfortunately some of the undeniably self-inflicted hardships strain sympathy and feed into this wrong-headed rationalization of how the only thing blacks need to do is fix their broken culture and finish school and quit abandoning their pregnant teenage girlfriends and they'd be welcomed into the fold.

So, what to do. Nicely asking everyone to stop being racist doesn't seem to have worked real well.

Criminal justice and prison reform would be a good start, but no R wants to be soft on crime, and let's not forget it was the D's annoited one Hillary Clinton who got everyone anxious about superpredators.

I'm not a fan of affirmative action for universities in part because it's unfair but also because it sets up unqualified students for failure. It tries to give unprepared students an extra chance to succeed academically, when the solution is to fix the schools and othe issues that produced the unprepared high school grads in the first place.

Universal BASIC healthcare is needed, as it would help raise some of the poorest people up a little by making them healthier and offloading some of their economic risk.

Paying public school teachers more would help attract and retain better teachers.

Reparations is a poisoned word. Won't ever happen as long as anyone calls it that. I don't know what the answer is. The Ds running candidates on ridiculous platforms that will lose another election won't help though.

Thread should've just ended after this post.
 

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I was only guessing...

so if you could clarify, what is you point of the laughter?
That you are so egotistical to think that you are soo in control of your destiny. There are seen and unseen forces at play in everyone's life. Some more than others. And in this conversation, the external forces are much more abundant for people of color. Even and maybe especially, the ones who succeed and overcome.

But go ahead young-blood. Grab your destiny by the horns.
 
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That you are so egotistical to think that you are soo in control of your destiny. There are seen and unseen forces at play in everyone's life. Some more than others. And in this conversation, the external forces are much more abundant for people of color. Even and maybe especially, the ones who succeed and overcome.

But go ahead young-blood. Grab your destiny by the horns.
so I was right that it was sarcasm at its best and condescending at its worst?

I am also a person of color and I disagree with you. Yes there are external forces, the amounts do vary for different groups of people. But keep blaming others and focusing on things that you are not in control and not take responsibility for what you can do will not help you move ahead imho!

anyway, you sound way better in your second post! (1y)
 

chocomorsel

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so I was right that it was sarcasm at its best and condescending at its worst?

I am a person of color as well and I disagree with you. Yes there are external forces, the amounts do vary for different groups of people. But keep blaming others and focusing on things that you are not in control and not take responsibility for what you can do will not help you move ahead imho!

anyway, you sound way better in your second post! (1y)
I took responsibility for myself and have overcome a lot of obstacles to get to where I am. I have experienced plenty of external forces trying to stop me. And so have damn near every person of color I know. And those are only of of things that they are aware of. I am well aware that there are internal and external forces at play that move people in whatever trajectory they move thru in life. It's not about blaming as much as it is about accepting the reality of the situation. But no, when people speak on that, they are making up excuses and they should be able to pull themselves up by their damn bootstraps no matter what.

Like I said, go ahead young-blood. Grab life by the horns and meet your destiny. I live in reality and chose to see the world through rose colored glasses no longer.

And like @FFP, you will see that I don't need your approval or praise.