chocomorsel

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Lots of things wrong with your post, but to start: who's going to pay the bill? And whom will they pay?
How about start with taxes on the top 0.1%. And I am not talking about insane taxes. I am talking about the same amount of taxes that alot of us upper middle income earners are paying. Somewhere between 28-38% or so?
As to whom will be paid, well that could get complicated for some people But AAs obviously. And disadvantaged ones get preference. And the mixed ones or questionable ones could get DNA tested and depending on their economic need, get something.
And that something doesn't have to be a check. Equality in a lot of aspects of life come to mind, with number one being education regardless of where one lives. And housing, and food, etc.
 

nimbus

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Let's see. How about being forced into gangs as teenagers? How about being raped repeatedly as a woman? Or killed by the gang wars in crossfire? Or being killed because you refused to pay the gangs for protection as you were trying to run your own business in order to feed your family? How about literally starving to death or surviving on less than one meal a day because your fearless leader president only cares about himself and his corner of people instead of the masses? How about having your loved ones killed by the cartels? Either because they worked for the cartels and killed by rival cartels, or they refused to work for the cartels?

Is that "forced" enough for you? Do some of you ever really think of how fortunate you are by being born in a free, first class world? By chance alone? And ever have any sympathy or empathy for the unlucky souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in countries where it's literally survival of the fittest/most corrupt/most aggressive/most wealthy/most evil/most conniving?

Let me tell you something. Your birth in the USA, was a fluke. Just like Jose Rivera's birth in El Salvador instead of El Paso was a fluke. Have some friggin' empathy instead of being so damn narcissistic and realize that these people are coming here simply to survive. And when they come here, these people aren't necessarily sitting on their asses and collecting welfare. They are out in the damn fields picking fruit and vegetables to for you to eat, and mowing your damn lawns, and cleaning your damn pools and stocking your groceries, taking care of your kids, while there are plenty of U.S citizens sitting on their lazy drugged up asses collecting welfare. Plenty of these people pay into a system that they will hardly ever be able to access.

Really?

Warren Buffett calls this the “ovarian lottery”. Successful people overestimate the role of merit in their own success and underestimate the role of luck.
 

nimbus

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there are plenty of evidence (just google warren buffet is a hypocrite, e.g. ).

He used to be one of my heroes when I started learning about investing. The more I know about him and his investments, the less I respect this guy.

He takes advantage of our tax code while advocating for its change. I suppose that could be construed as hypocritical. It could also mean he thinks the tax code should be changed.
 

Apollyon

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Less institutionalization into the jail system?
For all the rest, I am with you. I, God's honest truth, am on your side, whereas you are a black female, and I am a white male. But, really? What makes one man wake up in the morning, and say to himself, "I am going to steal today"? Then, another man wakes up and says, "Yeah! I'm going to earn my money today!"

There is NO nobility in poverty theft. There is no dignity in a gang killing. None. And my educated white ass will NOT change that opinion. Committing crimes, strictly because one is poor, will never be a social right.
 
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He takes advantage of our tax code while advocating for its change. I suppose that could be construed as hypocritical. It could also mean he thinks the tax code should be changed.
for me, a hypocrite is a person who does not put money where mouth is. Especially when want to ride on the high horse. No respect.
 

chocomorsel

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For all the rest, I am with you. I, God's honest truth, am on your side, whereas you are a black female, and I am a white male. But, really? What makes one man wake up in the morning, and say to himself, "I am going to steal today"? Then, another man wakes up and says, "Yeah! I'm going to earn my money today!"

There is NO nobility in poverty theft. There is no dignity in a gang killing. None. And my educated white ass will NOT change that opinion. Committing crimes, strictly because one is poor, will never be a social right.
It was more America’s “war on drugs” I was talking about. A war that has disproportionately placed black men in jail away from their families. A war that affects mostly the poor under educated or uneducated lot of the inner city who are mostly black. Who are undereducated because of poverty that was a direct consequence of slavery and Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination. A war where if one gets caught commuting the exact same crime but is white has seen lighter sentences for them in comparison to the blacks. There has been a large population of non violent offenders in this country who’ve been incarcerated for a ridiculous amount of time for selling marijuana.

That’s what I really meant. But even in your example, a lack of positive, hardworking black male role models leads the younger generation to commit crimes instead of focusing on school and or work. While there needs to me a mindset change in the black communities as well in order to move forward in the right direction, a lot of what has happened to the black community is in effect due to centuries of racism. And while it may not be as overt today, we all still exhibit subconscious biases that sometimes lead to certain people not moving forward in the same trajectory as others.

Look, when I first moved in this country, I was very naive about the plight of black people. Till I went to medical school and joined my educated sisters and brothers, had a black dean who made me “look in the mirror” so to speak, went to residency in a minority town but where the docs and nurses where very Caucasian, got married to a person who studied sociology and started reading more about these things.

Someone on this board has already said it but it’s more difficult to get to home base when one is starting from first base compared to third base. Add an injured leg to that runner in first base, and then it becomes almost impossible to ever catch up for many, many people of color.
 
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radsisrad

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Let's see. How about being forced into gangs as teenagers? How about being raped repeatedly as a woman? Or killed by the gang wars in crossfire? Or being killed because you refused to pay the gangs for protection as you were trying to run your own business in order to feed your family? How about literally starving to death or surviving on less than one meal a day because your fearless leader president only cares about himself and his corner of people instead of the masses? How about having your loved ones killed by the cartels? Either because they worked for the cartels and killed by rival cartels, or they refused to work for the cartels?

Is that "forced" enough for you? Do some of you ever really think of how fortunate you are by being born in a free, first class world? By chance alone? And ever have any sympathy or empathy for the unlucky souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in countries where it's literally survival of the fittest/most corrupt/most aggressive/most wealthy/most evil/most conniving?

Let me tell you something. Your birth in the USA, was a fluke. Just like Jose Rivera's birth in El Salvador instead of El Paso was a fluke. Have some friggin' empathy instead of being so damn narcissistic and realize that these people are coming here simply to survive. And when they come here, these people aren't necessarily sitting on their asses and collecting welfare. They are out in the damn fields picking fruit and vegetables to for you to eat, and mowing your damn lawns, and cleaning your damn pools and stocking your groceries, taking care of your kids, while there are plenty of U.S citizens sitting on their lazy drugged up asses collecting welfare. Plenty of these people pay into a system that they will hardly ever be able to access.

Really?
Nice rant. Totally irrelevant to the discussion, but I'm sure it was cathartic.
 

nolagas

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How about start with taxes on the top 0.1%. And I am not talking about insane taxes. I am talking about the same amount of taxes that alot of us upper middle income earners are paying. Somewhere between 28-38% or so?
As to whom will be paid, well that could get complicated for some people But AAs obviously. And disadvantaged ones get preference. And the mixed ones or questionable ones could get DNA tested and depending on their economic need, get something.
And that something doesn't have to be a check. Equality in a lot of aspects of life come to mind, with number one being education regardless of where one lives. And housing, and food, etc.
The DNA test will show they are the MOST likely to be descended from slave owners so they would be the ones paying reparations to themselves, except that you can’t actually be punished for the crimes of other people.
 
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radsisrad

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It was more America’s “war on crime” I was talking about. A war that has disproportionately placed black men in jail away from their families. A war that affects mostly the poor under educated or uneducated lot of the inner city who are mostly black. Who are undereducated because of poverty that was a direct consequence of slavery and Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination. A war where if one gets caught commuting the exact same crime but is white has seen lighter sentences for them in comparison to the blacks. There has been a large population of non violent offenders in this country who’ve been incarcerated for a ridiculous amount of time for selling marijuana.
Do you have any idea how plea bargains or recidivism work?

Those people who get enormous prison sentences for selling marijuana weren't busted for that.
 

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Warren Buffett calls this the “ovarian lottery”. Successful people overestimate the role of merit in their own success and underestimate the role of luck.
They also underestimate the role that generational wealth has in their own success.

There was an interesting (and controversial) article in The Atlantic about a year ago that argued that we, the 9.9%, hold most of the wealth in this country. We’ve done more to consolidate that wealth and privilege for our future generations at the expense of others.

 

radsisrad

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How about access to better housing? Equal education? Equal access to employment? Less discrimination? Less institutionalization into the jail system? Equal punishment?
How about we start with that?
I have always said equal education in this country would really go a long way to making things more equal down the line.
Equal education, and better housing?
Better housing? What would you like - luxury condos in Boston, mansions in suburbia...?

"Equal" anything is an impossible goal. It's deliberately nebulous. Might as well put a motorized chassis under those goalposts.

And EVERYBODY gets to pay their equal share of taxes. Including companies like Amazon. EVERY F UCKING BODY AND COMPANY. I bet if you taxed the top 0.1% as the rest of the 99.9% are taxed, you could take care of reparations.
We have no idea, now, do we? The pro-reparationists refuse to give us a figure.

Come up with a number and get back to us. Then we can talk.
 
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chocomorsel

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@radsisrad
“Better housing? What would you like - luxury condos in Boston, mansions in suburbia...?
"Equal" anything is an impossible goal. It's deliberately nebulous. Might as well put a motorized chassis under those goalposts.”

@radsisrad “We have no idea, now, do we? The pro-reparationists refuse to give us a figure.
Come up with a number and get back to us. Then we can talk”


Who the hell said anything about luxury or mansions? How about a good basic house with working plumbing and reliable heat/air in a decent non crime riddled neighborhood? Stop trying to turn things I type on here into extremes.

No one knows a number but the idea is a work in progress.

Another thing w you is you take what someone says on here and want absolutes.

I don’t know, when congress and presidents decide to send young men and women to unnecessary wars in the name of oil how often are they sticking to their numbers? Their money numbers, body numbers and their time numbers? Do those goal posts stay where they were originally planted, if they even were, or are they dragged on some “motorized chassis” as you say?

You won the sperm and uterus lottery as others have said. Stop thinking so damn highly of yourself and so damn poorly and selfishly of others because you started out with a lot of luck on your side.
 
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chocomorsel

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Nice rant. Totally irrelevant to the discussion, but I'm sure it was cathartic.
How is it irrelevant to the discussion when you are the one who brought up the talking point? You try to make a point, you get a counterpoint, and now it's "irrelevant". How fitting. You only want hear what preconceived thoughts/ideas you want to hear.
 

chocomorsel

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Do you have any idea how plea bargains or recidivism work?

Those people who get enormous prison sentences for selling marijuana weren't busted for that.
Do you have any idea what leads to the high rates of recidivism in this country?
Do you have any idea that rich White people tend to get much better plea agreements than poor people in general? If they even get in trouble?
 

Twiggidy

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Do you have any idea what leads to the high rates of recidivism in this country?
Do you have any idea that rich White people tend to get much better plea agreements than poor people in general? If they even get in trouble?
Wasting your time Choco. These discussions are useless if having them with someone so entrenched in their thinking and not willing to consider the other side, ie, similar to Congress not even willing to study the issue
 

chocomorsel

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Wasting your time Choco. These discussions are useless if having them with someone so entrenched in their thinking and not willing to consider the other side, ie, similar to Congress not even willing to study the issue
I know. But it just pisses me off to think that people are so closed minded and unwilling to open up their minds yet so damn judgmental and unempathetic.
Gotta leave it alone though.
 

GaseousClay

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I know. But it just pisses me off to think that people are so closed minded and unwilling to open up their minds yet so damn judgmental and unempathetic.
Gotta leave it alone though.
Yes leave it alone because anyone contrary to our beliefs are unempathetic not to mention probably white nationalists and homophobes. Classic progressive argument that kills all discussion in this country.
 

chocomorsel

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Yes leave it alone because anyone contrary to our beliefs are unempathetic not to mention probably white nationalists and homophobes. Classic progressive argument that kills all discussion in this country.
Firstly, welcome to the discussion as you spew at the mouth of things which you are totally making up and claiming I think.

I am specifically responding to people on here who show repeatedly that they don’t understand, don’t care to understand and by their postings show that they lack empathy.

All that other ****, keep making up and telling yourself. Doesn’t make it true on my end. You don’t know what I think besides what I post on here so please show me where I have talked about white nationalism and homophobia.

Classic right wing jumping to conclusions, putting words in people’s mouth arguments that shuts down all kinda discussion.
 

lakersbaby

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Firstly, welcome to the discussion as you spew at the mouth of things which you are totally making up and claiming I think.

I am specifically responding to people on here who show repeatedly that they don’t understand, don’t care to understand and by their postings show that they lack empathy.

All that other ****, keep making up and telling yourself. Doesn’t make it true on my end. You don’t know what I think besides what I post on here so please show me where I have talked about white nationalism and homophobia.

Classic right wing jumping to conclusions, putting words in people’s mouth arguments that shuts down all kinda discussion.
Both of y’all sound elitist and close minded to be honest. I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been closed yet.
 
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Twiggidy

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Yes leave it alone because anyone contrary to our beliefs are unempathetic not to mention probably white nationalists and homophobes. Classic progressive argument that kills all discussion in this country.
You know what really kills the argument? The old Shaggy “It Wasn’t Me” line. The question is always, “Was slavery horrible and is anyone owed for it?” People answer the first easily. It’s the second part where people say, well slavery was in the past. It wasn’t me. Jim Crow was in the 50s and 60s. It wasn’t me.

As I’ve said, I don’t think true reparations for African Americans in this country is about “a check” which is why I usually get irritated when the first response is “how much”? A true reparation leveling of the playing field that hasn’t been level since emancipation, but even when you try something like that in the form of Affirmative Action (which benefits white women more than anyone...and has been shown via studies) you get called a racist. But if some wants to start a discussion by telling me that all things are equal, I’m all ears.
 

GaseousClay

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You know what really kills the argument? The old Shaggy “It Wasn’t Me” line. The question is always, “Was slavery horrible and is anyone owed for it?” People answer the first easily. It’s the second part where people say, well slavery was in the past. It wasn’t me. Jim Crow was in the 50s and 60s. It wasn’t me.

As I’ve said, I don’t think true reparations for African Americans in this country is about “a check” which is why I usually get irritated when the first response is “how much”? A true reparation leveling of the playing field that hasn’t been level since emancipation, but even when you try something like that in the form of Affirmative Action (which benefits white women more than anyone...and has been shown via studies) you get called a racist. But if some wants to start a discussion by telling me that all things are equal, I’m all ears.
You're living in some dreamworld if you think this isn't about money.
 
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It was more America’s “war on drugs” I was talking about. A war that has disproportionately placed black men in jail away from their families. A war that affects mostly the poor under educated or uneducated lot of the inner city who are mostly black. Who are undereducated because of poverty that was a direct consequence of slavery and Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination. A war where if one gets caught commuting the exact same crime but is white has seen lighter sentences for them in comparison to the blacks. There has been a large population of non violent offenders in this country who’ve been incarcerated for a ridiculous amount of time for selling marijuana.

That’s what I really meant. But even in your example, a lack of positive, hardworking black male role models leads the younger generation to commit crimes instead of focusing on school and or work. While there needs to me a mindset change in the black communities as well in order to move forward in the right direction, a lot of what has happened to the black community is in effect due to centuries of racism. And while it may not be as overt today, we all still exhibit subconscious biases that sometimes lead to certain people not moving forward in the same trajectory as others.

Look, when I first moved in this country, I was very naive about the plight of black people. Till I went to medical school and joined my educated sisters and brothers, had a black dean who made me “look in the mirror” so to speak, went to residency in a minority town but where the docs and nurses where very Caucasian, got married to a person who studied sociology and started reading more about these things.

Someone on this board has already said it but it’s more difficult to get to home base when one is starting from first base compared to third base. Add an injured leg to that runner in first base, and then it becomes almost impossible to ever catch up for many, many people of color.
I am confused. Can you please tell how past slavery caused a current / continuing "lack of positive, hardworking black male role model" in the black family / community?
 

Twiggidy

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I am confused. Can you please tell how past slavery caused a current / continuing "lack of positive, hardworking black male role model" in the black family / community?
Let's start with how the slavery disrupted to entire notion of family. It's not like a family of 5 from the Cote d'Ivoire were allowed to be slaves together. Also, how about the fact that there is racial bias in job hiring practices? How are you going to be a hard working middle class black man when you're less likely to get hired as you white counterpart when all is equal. Now you have a jobless black man that still has to do what he needs to do to provide for his family. So what happens next?
 

FFP

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Let's start with how the slavery disrupted to entire notion of family. It's not like a family of 5 from the Cote d'Ivoire were allowed to be slaves together. Also, how about the fact that there is racial bias in job hiring practices? How are you going to be a hard working middle class black man when you're less likely to get hired as you white counterpart when all is equal. Now you have a jobless black man that still has to do what he needs to do to provide for his family. So what happens next?
Let's start with slavery ended 150 years ago. Let's start with the Civil Rights Act of 50 years ago. Don't you feel ridiculous dragging up this stuff in 2020?

Maybe I am not racist enough to understand the black paranoia in this country.
 
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Twiggidy

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Curious if you had this same view when we had a black president and democrats had both the senate and the house. If this is not pandering then what is it.
What view? If think Barack Obama as President was proof that racism is over in America then I have a bridge to sell you.
 
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Twiggidy

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Let's start with slavery ended 150 years ago. Or do you want to also speak about reparations for the white proletariat?
So I guess all was equal after slavery? Is that what you're really trying to say? I want someone to really put that in a post that all was made equal after slavery
 
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back to the topic...

If his rally's crowd is still the size it is now, Trump is going to bag this one. I won many good money with friends the last time based on this single indicator alone.

Most people and mainstream media would tell you lies about this b/c they are afraid of going against "popularity" and / or other agenda. Classic poll / survey biases.
 

nolagas

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”Although social scientists sometimes attribute racial differences in family patterns to long-run historical influences such as the legacy of slavery, marriage was common among black families in the early 20th century.10 Thus the racial divergence we see now in marriage formation is relatively recent. From 1890 through 1940, black women tended to marry earlier than white women did, and in the mid-20th century first marriage timing was similar for black and white women.11In 1950, black women aged 40–44 were actually more likely to have ever married than were white women of the same age (figure 1). Racial differences in marriage remained modest as recently as 1970, when 94.8 percent of white women and 92.2 percent of black women had ever been married.12

 
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GaseousClay

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What view? If think Barack Obama as President was proof that racism is over in America then I have a bridge to sell you.

He at least proved that the majority of the country is not racist and that one could achieve the highest office in the land as a person of color.
 
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So I guess all was equal after slavery? Is that what you're really trying to say? I want someone to really put that in a post that all was made equal after slavery
You may be less than equal with the white worker for a few generations, but not for 150 years, especially not in the North and other abolitionist parts of the country.

Edited for peace.
 
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Twiggidy

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Let's start with slavery ended 150 years ago. Let's start with the Civil Rights Act of 50 years ago. Don't you feel ridiculous dragging up this stuff in 2020?

Maybe I am not racist enough to understand the black paranoia in this country.
No.....you're not black enough
 
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Twiggidy

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He at least proved that the majority of the country is not racist and that one could achieve the highest office in the land as a person of color.
He proved that the US still wasn't ready for a FEMALE President (proven again by Donald Trump), that if you pick a bozo VP candidate just because she's female you'll lose, and he proved the how supportive black men are for other black men.
 

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Again, Twiggidy... if it's not about a check, what is is that you want for reparations?

99% of the people on SDN are more intelligent than 99% of the people in Congress, so let's skip the Congressional study to consider a study regarding a study on reparations. What are your concrete ideas?
 

Twiggidy

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I am something else. And my pain is more recent and stronger than your pain. And I am telling you: the only thing blacks are achieving is making racists out of non-racists, creating Trump voters out of moderates. Stop whining about the past, even if true. Move on.
Oh we can have this "struggle off" if you really want but the simple bold statement tells me most about what people think about African Americans in this country. Likewise, someone of the most racist people in this country towards black folks aren't white.
 
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Let's start with how the slavery disrupted to entire notion of family. It's not like a family of 5 from the Cote d'Ivoire were allowed to be slaves together. Also, how about the fact that there is racial bias in job hiring practices? How are you going to be a hard working middle class black man when you're less likely to get hired as you white counterpart when all is equal. Now you have a jobless black man that still has to do what he needs to do to provide for his family. So what happens next?
you also forgot 120 years has passed since the last slaves were freed (1865). Today is 2019.

I think it is time to take ownership in what you do. All people profiting from slavery are already dead. Nobody should be responsible for those slave owners' actions today.

If the Japanese and German and Chinese, etc. continued blaming the past for their success / failures, they would not be where they are today.

as far as racial biases, that is due to racial discrimination which is outlawed by the Constitution already. Asian, Hispanic, and other racial groups are also experiencing that. Hell, some people are even discriminated just because they are "old", "ugly" or "fat". But nobody is asking for reparation for that.

Make yourself so good that nobody can ignore (e.g. Dr. Ben Carson, one of my doctor idols).
 

Twiggidy

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Again, Twiggidy... if it's not about a check, what is is that you want for reparations?

99% of the people on SDN are more intelligent than 99% of the people in Congress, so let's skip the Congressional study to consider a study regarding a study on reparations. What are your concrete ideas?
It's not my job to come up with ideas for reparations. I'm a physician. I practice medicine.
 

GaseousClay

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He proved that the US still wasn't ready for a FEMALE President (proven again by Donald Trump), that if you pick a bozo VP candidate just because she's female you'll lose, and he proved the how supportive black men are for other black men.

Wow you're really delusional. You actually think Hillary lost solely because she is a WOMAN? Also Obama winning the presidency is mainly due to black men supporting him? Did Sharpton become an Anesthesiologist and get on SDN with us?
 

GaseousClay

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Oh we can have this "struggle off" if you really want but the simple bold statement tells me most about what people think about African Americans in this country. Likewise, someone of the most racist people in this country towards black folks aren't white.

Are blacks not racist? The most ching chong, jackie chan, small penis jokes I have heard against asians are from blacks.
 
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Twiggidy

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you also forgot 120 years has passed since the last slaves were freed (1865). Today is 2020.

I think it is time to take ownership in what you do. All people profiting from slavery are already dead. Nobody should be responsible for those slave owners' actions today.

If the Japanese and German and Chinese, etc. continued blaming the past for their success, they would not be where they are today.

as far as racial biases, that is due to racial discrimination which is outlawed by the Constitution already. Asian, Hispanic, and other racial groups are also experiencing that. Hell, some people are even discriminated just because they are "old", "ugly" or "fat". But nobody is asking for reparation for that.

Make yourself so good that nobody can ignore (e.g. Dr. Ben Carson, one of my doctor idols).
I've already or others have already addressed many of the points above.

As far a biases, it's been studied and shown. You can take the time to look them up for yourself.

Make yourself good:
“It’s all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.”
 

FFP

Wiseguy
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Oh we can have this "struggle off" if you really want but the simple bold statement tells me most about what people think about African Americans in this country. Likewise, someone of the most racist people in this country towards black folks aren't white.
I am an immigrant, so I am not your typical white person. I personally don't have issues with color, I have issues with culture. I don't have a lot of respect for cultures that have been historically unsuccessful, even when independent, and the other way round, so I am not a big fan of half of the world. There is usually a reason for it, besides historical luck (or lack of it). This is why I don't like when people try to impose their own retrograde cultures as immigrants.

But I judge people based on their own merits.
 

Twiggidy

Manny Rivers Cuomo
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Wow you're really delusional. You actually think Hillary lost solely because she is a WOMAN? Also Obama winning the presidency is mainly due to black men supporting him? Did Sharpton become an Anesthesiologist and get on SDN with us?
Yes. I think a significant part of why Hillary lost was because she was a woman. Not only, but significant. Also, insults do further the discussion.
Are blacks not racist? The most ching chong, jackie chan, small penis jokes I have heard against asians are from blacks.
Also let's talk real racism not stand up comedy routines.
 

sleepallday

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You may be less than equal with the white worker for a few generations, but not for 150 years, especially not in the North and other abolitionist parts of the country.

Edited for peace.
wow. Comments like this and some of the others on this thread make you wonder how seemingly intelligent people can go through life with blinders on.
 
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