Will you give patient her cell phone?

[Estrace]

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One of our regular patient was discharged from an emergency room with several prescriptions on Monday. One of them was for Tylenol #3. The one for Tylenol #3 didn't have any DEA number on it. My partner tried all day to get the DEA from the resident that wrote the prescription. The operator paged her multiple times but she never returned any of her calls all day Monday. When I came in on Tuesday, I saw a note my partner left to call the hospital again that morning. I called twice after the patient calls me first thing that morning complaining that she was in pain. Finally the operator got tired of paging her and just gave me her cell phone number. I called her cell phone and she was very upset that the operator gave me her number. She started arguing with me that Tylenol #3 is not a control med. I wanted to laugh but I held it together listening to her rants and at the end, she said will call me back. I told her that the patient was in pain and we have been trying to contact. She insisted she will call me back so I said ok. Two hours later, the patient calls asking for her med and I still haven't heard back from the resident. I told the patient the hospital gave me her cell phone and I have contacted her and still waiting for her to call back. Then the patient asked me to give her the number so she can call the doctor herself . Will you give the patient the resident's phone number at this point?

 

[awval999]

I would probably fill it because it's lol Tylenol 3 and it was from a goddamn emergency room. Isn't the script on a fancy hospital printed letterhead.

Then again I'm a hospital pharmacist so my opinion means nothing.

 

[Lnsean]

One of our regular patient was discharged from an emergency room with several prescriptions on Monday. One of them was for Tylenol #3. The one for Tylenol #3 didn't have any DEA number on it. My partner tried all day to get the DEA from the resident that wrote the prescription. The operator paged her multiple times but she never returned any of her calls all day Monday. When I came in on Tuesday, I saw a note my partner left to call the hospital again that morning. I called twice after the patient calls me first thing that morning complaining that she was in pain. Finally the operator got tired of paging her and just gave me her cell phone number. I called her cell phone and she was very upset that the operator gave me her number. She started arguing with me that Tylenol #3 is not a control med. I wanted to laugh but I held it together listening to her rants and at the end, she said will call me back. I told her that the patient was in pain and we have been trying to contact. She insisted she will call me back so I said ok. Two hours later, the patient calls asking for her med and I still haven't heard back from the resident. I told the patient the hospital gave me her cell phone and I have contacted her and still waiting for her to call back. Then the patient asked me to give her the number so she can call the doctor herself . Will you give the patient the resident's phone number at this point?

Are you for real? Both of you have no common sense. Here is what the thought process should be:

1. She is your regular patient.
------is the script for acute pain (<10day supply)
------Check your state PMP and see if there is a pattern of doctor shopping or poly pharmacy
------If you must, call the ER to verify if indeed script was issued
2. Fill the prescription...write the DEA in if you have to...

Jesus christ..

 

[Monsterdaddy]

I wouldn't give out the doctor's phone number. That's just asking for trouble for everyone involved.

I assume this resident is so new that no record of him/her was found in the database which is why you couldn't look up the DEA number.

What I would usually do is ask another doctor/NP, etc. to confirm the order, get their info, note the conversation and fill the script that way. Most EDs physicians seem to be OK with that, especially if they know the doctor in question.

Of course, you can't do this with a C II.

 

[zelman]

Also no.

My wife's MD wrote a prescription for Vicodin 5/500. I took it back to the office and got a replacement Rx in 15 minutes. That is the fastest way to fix stupid miswritten prescriptions 95% of the time. Patients need to be told that they can physically transport this sort of garbage to its source and handle it themselves or be prepared for the fact that a chain of communication will be used that relies on the (unlikely) competence of 4-5 people.

 

[Estrace]

My partner who is the rxm was the one that started with trying to contact this resident. My only issue I had with the resident was her attitude. I wanted her to share in our misery. I'm here trying to correct your mistake and you have the audacity to yell at me. If she had been apologetic, I wouldn't be thinking about giving the patient her phone number. She knows she's a resident and most pharmacies won't have her information so why the attitude.
Simply saying that she was sorry that the patient has had her med since the day before and that she will look up the DEA and call us back is enough for me. They need to take responsibility for their actions. The reason I made this thread is that I told my friend what happened and how I wanted to give the patient the resident's phone number and my friend said it's a no no. I just wanted other pharmacists opinion and why is it a no no.

 

[BidingMyTime]

What Zelman & Monsterdaddy said. 1) NO, do not give the patient the phone number. 2) call the ER for the DEA #, if the ER does not have the DEA #, then ask the covering doctor or resident if they will OK the RX under their name. I have covering doctor or residents refuse to change an RX they didn't write, but I have never had a covering doctor or resident refuse to authorize a previously written RX under their name, under the circumstances you described. 3) if for some reason #2 didn't work (but it will), tell the patient to take the RX back to the ER & have someone there fix it, 4) this option isn't needed, since the problem would have been solved with #2 or #3, but legally somebody in the hospital would know the doctors DEA, probably medical records. Ask the operator to transfer you to medical records, then get the doctors DEA# from them. Medical records will either give you the doctors DEA out of their computer system, or they will transfer you to someone who would be authorized to do so.

Edited to add, the reason why giving out the residents phone # is wrong, is the same reason why you wouldn't get out your partner's cell phone number to a patient, and why you wouldn't want anyone else giving out your cell phone number. It's called respecting people's privacy, and regardless of how rude someone is, its good manners to respect their privacy.

 

[pezdispenser]

Well if you didn't already choose some random doctor with a DEA# that comes up in your system under the ER phone number, then go ahead and call them for the resident's DEA number. If they don't have it, then ask them for the attending physician's name, which is usually already registered in your system, and use that. Annotate the script accordingly. Fill it and be done.

Ain't nobody got time to track down a DEA# for a T#3, which you'll probably make like $1 gross profit on. Your own time already costs your employer over $1 per minute. Don't make the situation worse by adding to that the time spent taking crap from the patient and the doctor by withholding the medication for over a day, or the reaming you'll surely get by giving out the doctor's cell #.

 

[Gombrich12]

I'll never understand people in retail who actively make their life harder. What we do isn't rocket science and if you have a bit of common sense it will go a long way. Waiting on DEAs for known patients with refill scripts from the same doctor, calling on statin/fluconazole interactions, refusing to help a nurse find a rare med at other pharmacies in your chain, calling on every faxed control. These are just a few examples of people wasting their time and my time too and in turn angering patients and offices.

 

[confettiflyer]

...is this seriously what some pharmacists do in retail-land..?

Holy **** show.

 

[luwical]

This is a simple situation. Clarify the order with a doctor that has a DEA number in the hospital. And I will give the client or patient's the doctor's number for the fun of it after the doctor yelled over the phone. This is 2014. Work for your privacy.

 

[Estrace]

To clear a few things, the hospital said they don't give out DEA over the phone (my first time encountering this), they try to contact the doctors directly or give out their cell phone number if they can't reach them.
Another issue was that I actually got hold of her myself on her cellphone. So there was no need to get the DEA from another doctor. If she cared about the patient, she would have given me the DEA number when I called. I have a problem with doctors who don't care about the patients, doctors who act like you're bothering them for calling them. Sorry, that's what it takes to be a doctor. Why do I have to be the one getting flamed for your oversight?
If she doesn't want her cellphone number given out, maybe she needs to let the hospital know. Just for not knowing that Tylenol #3 is a control and the rudeness she displayed arguing with me instead of just giving me the DEA number is enough reason to give out her number..
Most prescription written by residents will have the attending doctors info on them but this one didn't. If it did, we would have used it and our system won't let you process the prescription without doctor's information.

 

[BidingMyTime]

To clear a few things, the hospital said they don't give out DEA over the phone (my first time encountering this), they try to contact the doctors directly or give out their cell phone number if they can't reach them.
Another issue was that I actually got hold of her myself on her cellphone. So there was no need to get the DEA from another doctor.

You didn't get ahold of the doctor until what, something like 18 hours later? So I disagree, you absolutely should have called the ER & explained the situation to them & got an attending to put her/his name on the script. Or if nothing else, give the script back to the patient & tell them to take it back to the ER to get it fixed. I certainly would not have wasted all day trying to get ahold of a doctor who has turned her cell phone off. You also indicated you only talked to the operator, the operator is most likely *not* authorized to give out DEA's over the phone--you should have asked to be transferred to the ER and got the DEA number from them, and if they didn't know, then ask for medical records.

Yeah, I agree with you its stupid that the doctor yelled at you for her mistake, and she certainly should know her own DEA # (makes me wonder if she even has one.) Regardless, the best way to handle the situation would have never involved calling her on her cell phone.

Most prescription written by residents will have the attending doctors info on them but this one didn't. If it did, we would have used it and our system won't let you process the prescription without doctor's information.

Again, this is why you call the ER, explain the situation, and ask if the doctor currently on duty will OK the script. You seem not to like the advice everyone is giving you, which is unfortunate, because this advice works, and if you use it in the future it will save you and your partner much time, plus increase your patient's satisfaction. The hospital operator does not have any medical knowledge or knowledge of procedures involving the DEA. It is a complete waste of time to ask the operator for the doctors DEA. You should have asked to be transferred to the ER, then ask to talk to a nurse or doctor (do NOT talk to the clerk), and the situation would have been solved within 5 minutes. If for some obscure reason that I've never heard of, that the ER couldn't help you, then ask to be transferred to medical records to get the DEA. This procedure has worked 100% of the time for me (the times I had to go through medical records involved ambulatory surgery RX's after the department was completely closed.)

 

[npage148]

Wait to see stuff get fixed fast? Write why you can't fill it on the back, give it to the patient and tell them you can't fill it because the doctor did xx wrong and send them back to the ER.

Our residents love to write "disp: 15 day supply" on CSs which is not cool. But they learn quick when a pt in pain is back there pissed off they had to make a second trip

I also don't think I've ever spent as much time trying to fix ANY problem, clinical or legal, as you spent with this

 

[Estrace]

You didn't get ahold of the doctor until what, something like 18 hours later? So I disagree, you absolutely should have called the ER & explained the situation to them & got an attending to put her/his name on the script. Or if nothing else, give the script back to the patient & tell them to take it back to the ER to get it fixed. I certainly would not have wasted all day trying to get ahold of a doctor who has turned her cell phone off. You also indicated you only talked to the operator, the operator is most likely *not* authorized to give out DEA's over the phone--you should have asked to be transferred to the ER and got the DEA number from them, and if they didn't know, then ask for medical records.

Yeah, I agree with you its stupid that the doctor yelled at you for her mistake, and she certainly should know her own DEA # (makes me wonder if she even has one.) Regardless, the best way to handle the situation would have never involved calling her on her cell phone.



Again, this is why you call the ER, explain the situation, and ask if the doctor currently on duty will OK the script. You seem not to like the advice everyone is giving you, which is unfortunate, because this advice works, and if you use it in the future it will save you and your partner much time, plus increase your patient's satisfaction. The hospital operator does not have any medical knowledge or knowledge of procedures involving the DEA. It is a complete waste of time to ask the operator for the doctors DEA. You should have asked to be transferred to the ER, then ask to talk to a nurse or doctor (do NOT talk to the clerk), and the situation would have been solved within 5 minutes. If for some obscure reason that I've never heard of, that the ER couldn't help you, then ask to be transferred to medical records to get the DEA. This procedure has worked 100% of the time for me (the times I had to go through medical records involved ambulatory surgery RX's after the department was completely closed.)

Between my partner who has 12 years experience and I who has 2.5 years experience, you don't think we know how to do everything everyone suggested on this thread? We are located near a medical center so we deal with a lot of emergency prescriptions and have never had any problem like this. I personally haven't dealt with this hospital before and from the note my partner left for me from the day before, I could tell she was frustrated dealing with them too.
This hospital was very difficult to deal with and that was why I took issues with her yelling at me when I finally got hold of her. We asked for everything you mentioned. I even asked for her attending's name so I could use it and the lady on the other line said they don't give out that information. I asked for another doctor to help authorize the script and was again met with resistance from the other end. Their protocol is that the doctor who wrote the script has to be contacted and I guess that's why they gave me her cellphone. I have never ever had a hospital give me a doctors cellphone before.
Giving her cellphone to the patient was just something I thought about doing to piss. her off before she called back with her attending information 2 hours later. My question actually for this thread is will I get in trouble if I had given out her cell phone to the patient and why? I understand the respecting peoples privacy part but could I actually get in trouble for doing that and why? I feel like we are all professional and should respect each others time. If you are not apologetic for wasting my time trying to fix your mistake, I have the right to piss. you off too as long as I'm not breaking the law.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

...is this seriously what some pharmacists do in retail-land..?

Holy **** show.

I see your DEA technicalities and raise you a "ridiculous **** you see on med rec sheets that need to be corrected."

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Our residents love to write "disp: 15 day supply" on CSs which is not cool. But they learn quick when a pt in pain is back there pissed off they had to make a second trip

I'm confused, are you saying the residents should write longer or shorter duration scripts?

Here in the Phoenix area, ED's usually write one week maximum for controls and let the patient's PCP write for anything longer. Retail here is getting used to accepting only one week or shorter scripts from ED's/hospital discharges and assuming anything longer are fake scripts.

Probably different practices by region but here it's helped cut down on a lot of fake scripts for controls.

 

[Estrace]

I'm confused, are you saying the residents should write longer or shorter duration scripts?

Here in the Phoenix area, ED's usually write one week maximum for controls and let the patient's PCP write for anything longer. Retail here is getting used to accepting only one week or shorter scripts from ED's/hospital discharges and assuming anything longer are fake scripts.

Probably different practices by region but here it's helped cut down on a lot of fake scripts for controls.

Here in Texas, they are supposed to write quantity out both in words and number. Example: if the direction is once daily and 15 days supply, they are supposed to write #15 ( fifteen) .

 

[NateRobinson]

People who complain about the big chains and payroll and **** like that are the ones who are doing **** like this.


What a waste of time. I'm speechless. You are making your life hard for NO REASON. You're not the police. I give it a 0.000000001% chance that the DEA would get mad at you for filling a script like this.

And even if they DO indeed get "mad" at you for filling a script like this, which is more unlikely than a T-Rex eating me for thanksgiving dinner today, all they would do is tell your chain to be more careful next time.

 

[owlegrad]

I am confused by your question. How exactly could you get in trouble by giving out the phone number? Get in trouble with who, your supervisor or the Board of Pharmacy? No, you wouldn't get 'in trouble' for it.

However it would be a super s***** thing to do to someone.

 

[ancienbon]

People who complain about the big chains and payroll and **** like that are the ones who are doing **** like this.


What a waste of time. I'm speechless. You are making your life hard for NO REASON. You're not the police. I give it a 0.000000001% chance that the DEA would get mad at you for filling a script like this.

And even if they DO indeed get "mad" at you for filling a script like this, which is more unlikely than a T-Rex eating me for thanksgiving dinner today, all they would do is tell your chain to be more careful next time.

I am assuming the Resident was not in the system, and without a DEA on file, the system won't let you process the script. So that is why the op needed the DEA. It is not because it was not written on the script.

 

[DrBowtie]

I am confused by your question. How exactly could you get in trouble by giving out the phone number? Get in trouble with who, your supervisor or the Board of Pharmacy? No, you wouldn't get 'in trouble' for it.

However it would be a super s***** thing to do to someone.

A motivated angry resident could certainly file complaints with both. I'm sure there is some professionalism clause that this could fit into.

 

[Lnsean]

You're going to give out cell phone numbers? really?
You're going to ask the patient to bring the script back to the ER? really?

Reading the replies here, I am truly disgusted to share the same profession with some of you guys. Such incompetence. I think they DO let everyone graduate pharmacy these days. It's time I jump ship.

 

[ancienbon]

You're going to give out cell phone numbers? really?
You're going to ask the patient to bring the script back to the ER? really?

Reading the replies here, I am truly disgusted to share the same profession with some of you guys. Such incompetence. I think they DO let everyone graduate pharmacy these days. It's time I jump ship.

I honestly think you don't get is or you don't work retail. Without a DEA you wont be able to process a controlled script. Period. The OP mentioned that he called multiples times and noone would let him process the script under their name.
So what would you do in such a case?

 

[Lnsean]

I honestly think you don't get is or you don't work retail. Without a DEA you wont be able to process a controlled script. Period. The OP mentioned that he called multiples times and noone would let him process the script under their name.
So what would you do in such a case?

1. Very easily. Most chains will have all the DEAs and NPIs listed for the prescribers---it's a whole database. You can search by phone numbers or full names. There is also a website---provided by the DEA---that is searchable by many parameters.

OR

2. Call the ER and have them check the charts to see who the attending is if the resident doesn't have a DEA. Don't continuously page the resident if she herself does not have a DEA.

OR

3. If none of that works, explain the situation to the ER nurse and she will put you on the phone with a doctor there. Usually he will go over the charts and will allow you to put this under his name. This has been suggested by another user already.

I have never had to use all 3 options---all the ERs will have charts available and any of the nurses can look up who the attending doctor was.

The problem here isn't that they don't have a DEA on file. It seems like OP and his "partner" were trying to get the DEA number straight from the prescriber's mouth because it was missing on hardcopy. It was as if..they're afraid to write it down on the script. They are making this unreasonably harder on themselves than it needs to be.

 

[Estrace]

A motivated angry resident could certainly file complaints with both. I'm sure there is some professionalism clause that this could fit into.

And where do I file complaint for her own lack of professionalism? Is this what they are encouraged to do as residents? We are both professionals and she opened the door for anything by yelling at me for trying to do my job. I know not to give out her number but who's going to teach her to not yell at another professional especially when all I did was try to fix her mistake.

 

[Estrace]

I honestly think you don't get is or you don't work retail. Without a DEA you wont be able to process a controlled script. Period. The OP mentioned that he called multiples times and noone would let him process the script under their name.
So what would you do in such a case?

Thank you, at least someone actually took the time to read my explanations. There was no way to process this prescription and the hospital wasn't helpful.

 

[Lnsean]

And where do I file complaint for her own lack of professionalism? Is this what they are encouraged to do as residents? We are both professionals and she opened the door for anything by yelling at me for trying to do my job. I know not to give out her number but who's going to teach her to not yell at another professional especially when all I did was try to fix her mistake.

You bothered her multiple times for a stupid number. I think she should be filing a complaint against you and your partner. There are many ways to get a DEA number without actually having to talk to her. Jesus. Learn to problem solve.

 

[Lnsean]

Thank you, at least someone actually took the time to read my explanations. There was no way to process this prescription and the hospital wasn't helpful.

There were many ways you could have gotten this number. You and your partner insisted on reaching the resident and getting it from his mouth. Did you ask the ER nurse to look in the charts? No. You asked them to page the resident multiple times instead. There's no reason for that.

 

[type b pharmD]

Rofl @ this story for so many reasons. I had some floaters pull that .. I got a hold of ER supervising doc during a slow ER time, talked to him professionally for one minute.. we just put his name and info on any ER script now where provider info is not clearly marked so we never have to call .. win win. All the techs know to just fill in his info (since it is preprinted somewhere on the er pads anyway it is legal) .

This is something called professional courtesy and it is a 2 way street.

I had a harder time with Norco vs vicodin substitution now that it is illegal to change the drug name on hydro scripts .. called every practice in town once, accepted their scripts for a while ... Now we send some back but the drs who provided us with pro courtesy got a few freebies on that and some friendly phone calls.

You gotta be nice to your prescribers, try to give them some leeway and they will give you some and everybody is happy. I have a list in my pocket of practices who have already agreed to provide unlimited ventolin refills for pts within reason without a call .. saves us a bunch of time, and since we are courteous and use our professional skills, Dr respect us more than if we called on inane things.

 

[Lnsean]

Rofl @ this story for so many reasons. I had some floaters pull that .. I got a hold of ER supervising doc during a slow ER time, talked to him professionally for one minute.. we just put his name and info on any ER script now where provider info is not clearly marked so we never have to call .. win win. All the techs know to just fill in his info (since it is preprinted somewhere on the er pads anyway it is legal) .

This is something called professional courtesy and it is a 2 way street.

I had a harder time with Norco vs vicodin substitution now that it is illegal to change the drug name on hydro scripts .. called every practice in town once, accepted their scripts for a while ... Now we send some back but the drs who provided us with pro courtesy got a few freebies on that and some friendly phone calls.

You gotta be nice to your prescribers, try to give them some leeway and they will give you some and everybody is happy. I have a list in my pocket of practices who have already agreed to provide unlimited ventolin refills for pts within reason without a call .. saves us a bunch of time, and since we are courteous and use our professional skills, Dr respect us more than if we called on inane things.

This thread is as stupid as that Ventolin vs Proair thread. The incompetence is unreal.

 

[type b pharmD]

This thread is as stupid as that Ventolin vs Proair thread. The incompetence is unreal.

That **** is honestly a good indicator to me of whether I want a person back at my store or not. Now it is coming up levemir flex touch vs flex pen because it is not 100% the same . Flex pen doesn't exist anymore so you either sub it or patient doesn't get their meds .. the computer system is there to guide us and help point us to make decisions .. it is not our boss . I tell people 'are you going to throw a bunch of problems into the mix on this or are you going to use the clinical training you paid for to dispense a prescription pursuant to MDs reasonable intent , to treat a patient'. That is why you can annotate scripts, and by law the annotation supersedes anything the computer is saying.

 

[owlegrad]

A motivated angry resident could certainly file complaints with both. I'm sure there is some professionalism clause that this could fit into.

You could tell your supervisor or the Board of Pharmacy that you were trying to take care of the patient. I can't imagine that the Board of Pharmacy would even look into it. I don't think you could reasonably justify an argument that you could possibly get 'in trouble' for doing this. Its just a really petty stupid thing to do.

 

[boriqua]

I'm not sure if this is an NY thing, but if the person writing a controlled substance is a resident, we are allowed to use the hospital's dea number with that resident's physician code at the end. and that number is printed on every single prescription by default. it's pretty strange that a hospital does not have that resident's dea code on file. or that the hospital's dea is not printed in the RX in the first place. well strange in NY anyways

 

[Estrace]

There were many ways you could have gotten this number. You and your partner insisted on reaching the resident and getting it from his mouth. Did you ask the ER nurse to look in the charts? No. You asked them to page the resident multiple times instead. There's no reason for that.

I'm done responding to you because you absolutely refuse to read before responding Mr competent pharmacist. My partner and I didn't insist on reaching the resident, the hospital insisted that was the only way since she didn't respond with them paging her. There is no way to speak to an ER nurse if you are not transferred to the ER, what part of this story don't you understand. We didn't ask them to page the resident, they said it was their protocol to contact the prescriber directly. This was a unique case which was made difficult by the lack of information on the prescription and the hospital not willing to cooperate. I expected her to be more compassionate towards the patient than yelling at the pharmacist trying to take care of the patient. Unfortunately, you're one of those pharmacists who think that doctors should not be bothered. It doesn't matter how stupid a question is, if the pharmacist isn't sure they should call and clarify. I rather bother a doctor than make an error . Doctors are not gods. A lot of things you encounter in retail are not taught in school. You learn more in retail from experience than from what you were taught in school. Stop being judgmental, things work differently at different chains.
At the end of the day, she doesn't have any information on herself. She had to give us her attending information to use. We use hospital DEA for new residents who do not have their own DEA but I would never put a random doctors name on a control substance.
How is she ever going to learn to write prescription correctly if she's not bothered by pharmacists?

 

[zelman]

1. Very easily. Most chains will have all the DEAs and NPIs listed for the prescribers---it's a whole database. You can search by phone numbers or full names. There is also a website---provided by the DEA---that is searchable by many parameters.

OR

2. Call the ER and have them check the charts to see who the attending is if the resident doesn't have a DEA. Don't continuously page the resident if she herself does not have a DEA.

OR

3. If none of that works, explain the situation to the ER nurse and she will put you on the phone with a doctor there. Usually he will go over the charts and will allow you to put this under his name. This has been suggested by another user already.

I have never had to use all 3 options---all the ERs will have charts available and any of the nurses can look up who the attending doctor was.

The problem here isn't that they don't have a DEA on file. It seems like OP and his "partner" were trying to get the DEA number straight from the prescriber's mouth because it was missing on hardcopy. It was as if..they're afraid to write it down on the script. They are making this unreasonably harder on themselves than it needs to be.

There is no free listing of DEA numbers.

 

[Lnsean]

There is no free listing of DEA numbers.

If you work for a big chain...yes there is. If you don't, proceed to option 2 and 3. It's pretty simple. I can't walk you through everything.

 

[Lnsean]

I'm done responding to you because you absolutely refuse to read before responding Mr competent pharmacist. My partner and I didn't insist on reaching the resident, the hospital insisted that was the only way since she didn't respond with them paging her. There is no way to speak to an ER nurse if you are not transferred to the ER, what part of this story don't you understand. We didn't ask them to page the resident, they said it was their protocol to contact the prescriber directly. This was a unique case which was made difficult by the lack of information on the prescription and the hospital not willing to cooperate. I expected her to be more compassionate towards the patient than yelling at the pharmacist trying to take care of the patient. Unfortunately, you're one of those pharmacists who think that doctors should not be bothered. It doesn't matter how stupid a question is, if the pharmacist isn't sure they should call and clarify. I rather bother a doctor than make an error . Doctors are not gods. A lot of things you encounter in retail are not taught in school. You learn more in retail from experience than from what you were taught in school. Stop being judgmental, things work differently at different chains.
At the end of the day, she doesn't have any information on herself. She had to give us her attending information to use. We use hospital DEA for new residents who do not have their own DEA but I would never put a random doctors name on a control substance.
How is she ever going to learn to write prescription correctly if she's not bothered by pharmacists?

I read your post and a lot of seasoned pharmacists, not just me, thought it was stupid. Doctors are not gods; they make mistakes and so do you. This problem need not involved 2 different pharmacists over the course of 2-3 days to resolve. The incompetence is just unreal here.

Basically, you have done nothing but inconvenienced yourself, the patient, and the resident...but do please file a complaint against her.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Estrace]

I read your post and a lot of seasoned pharmacists, not just me, thought it was stupid. Doctors are not gods; they make mistakes and so do you. This problem need not involved 2 different pharmacists over the course of 2-3 days to resolve. The incompetence is just unreal here.

Basically, you have done nothing but inconvenienced yourself, the patient, and the resident...but do please file a complaint against her.

Just my 2 cents

You never came up with how you will resolve this situation as none of the solutions you suggested above worked here. How do you search for DEA or NPI for someone who does not have one (at least we didn't find one for her and she didn't provide one at the end of the day)? How do you ask to speak to an ER nurse when the hospital told you that it's against their policy? How do you ask another ER doctor to sign off on it when the hospital said that their policy is to contact the prescribing doctor? How do you know who her attending is when that information was not provided on the prescription? Tell me because I really want to know how competent pharmacists like you make magic happen.

It's hard for you to believe that we know exactly how to resolve ER prescriptions issues and that this was an unusual situation.

 

[Lnsean]

You never came up with how you will resolve this situation as none of the solutions you suggested above worked here.
.

I did in another post above...you didn't bother to scroll up. I outlined 3 options for you. Jesus christ...are you this lazy or just incompetent? No wonder this script took over 2 days and 2 pharmacist to resolve.

 

[Estrace]

I did in another post above...you didn't bother to scroll up. I outlined 3 options for you. Jesus christ...are you this lazy or just incompetent? No wonder this script took over 2 days and 2 pharmacist to resolve.

And none of your 3 options worked in this situation. So what else do you have Mr competent?

 

[Lnsean]

And none of your 3 options worked in this situation. So what else do you have Mr competent?

You cannot be serious...LOL. You said there was a policy, what policy was that? Did you call the ER directly or talked to the operator? I am certain you're just making stuff up now because that was never mentioned in your original post. Why were you talking to the operator anyway? You didn't think to call the ER directly?


Your story is not consistent and it raises a lot of red flags. It's almost like you're introducing new scenarios and details as you come across criticisms from the forum. You came here asking for an honest answer and that's what we gave you. You and your partner needlessly, though unintentional, created such hassle for your pharmacy, the victim (yea at this point--she's not a patient anymore), and the resident. Not only that, it baffles me that you wanted to file a compliant against the resident. (what?)

So like what? If you get two of these scripts tomorrow while you're working, you're just going to close the pharmacy? Because it seems to me like you have no clue what you're doing.

 

[Estrace]

You cannot be serious...LOL. You said there was a policy, what policy was that? Did you call the ER directly or talked to the operator? I am certain you're just making stuff up now because that was never mentioned in your original post. Why were you talking to the operator anyway? You didn't think to call the ER directly?


Your story is not consistent and it raises a lot of red flags. It's almost like you're introducing new scenarios and details as you come across criticisms from the forum. You came here asking for an honest answer and that's what we gave you. You and your partner needlessly, though unintentional, created such hassle for your pharmacy, the victim (yea at this point--she's not a patient anymore), and the resident. Not only that, it baffles me that you wanted to file a compliant against the resident. (what?)

So like what? If you get two of these scripts tomorrow while you're working, you're just going to close the pharmacy? Because it seems to me like you have no clue what you're doing.

You are ridiculous....... it's not even funny at this point.
Make up stories? I said we never got pass the operator in my first post because there is only one number to call. The same lady picks up every time we called, I just gave more details on what she said each time. How is that hard for your competent brain to understand?
I am certain at this point that you didn't read any of my post because I never mentioned anything about wanting to file a complaint against the resident. I never even ask for opinion on how to resolve this issue. I only asked 2 question ; 1. Will you give the patient the resident's number given this scenario and if not why? 2. Let's assume I decide to piss. the resident off by giving out her number, will I get in trouble for that.
You are the one going over yourself with criticism that isn't warranted. I never asked for you advice on how to resolve issues with ER scripts as we deal with those a lot considering our location. Do you feel good about yourself now that you have said all of that? Working retail, I have come to realize that patients are not even the problem as much as pharmacists like you who think they know better than everyone else and doctors who have no respect for pharmacists.

Go enjoy your turkey and have a good thanksgivings.

 

[Lnsean]

You are ridiculous....... it's not even funny at this point.
Make up stories? I said we never got pass the operator in my first post because there is only one number to call. The same lady picks up every time we called, I just gave more details on what she said each time. How is that hard for your competent brain to understand?
I am certain at this point that you didn't read any of my post because I never mentioned anything about wanting to file a complaint against the resident. I never even ask for opinion on how to resolve this issue. I only asked 2 question ; 1. Will you give the patient the resident's number given this scenario and if not why? 2. Let's assume I decide to piss. the resident off by giving out her number, will I get in trouble for that.
You are the one going over yourself with criticism that isn't warranted. I never asked for you advice on how to resolve issues with ER scripts as we deal with those a lot considering our location. Do you feel good about yourself now that you have said all of that? Working retail, I have come to realize that patients are not even the problem as much as pharmacists like you who think they know better than everyone else and doctors who have no respect for pharmacists.

Go enjoy your turkey and have a good thanksgivings.

You know what, forget all that.I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I believe everything about your story.

BUT

I read that you actually got the resident's cell and called her...and then still didn't resolve the issue. What? LOL. If that isn't incompetence, I don't know what is. You mean to tell me, you waited all this time for her to call you...you got her number and called her... and then you let her go without resolving anything? You opted to wait more?This is laughable.

It's this attitude of "no fault" that has caused you and everyone such a major inconvenience over something so small. You insisted that it wasn't your fault...and it wasn't...it was the prescriber's fault that she forgot the DEA number. However, that's never the point. You are paid 100k to solve these issues, not create more. As a health care provider, your job is to do what is in the best interest of your patients. You've failed at all of these.

This is really the takeaway point here. The fact that you're still so persistent on how "awesome" you've acted...how you wanted to "report" this resident....I'm both baffled and ashamed to share in this profession with you.

I never asked for you advice on how to resolve issues with ER scripts as we deal with those a lot considering our location.

Actually, you did. You asked me how I would have handled it.

No, I don't believe for a second that you deal with alot of ER scripts based on what you've posted on here so far.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Between my partner who has 12 years experience and I who has 2.5 years experience, you don't think we know how to do everything everyone suggested on this thread? We are located near a medical center so we deal with a lot of emergency prescriptions and have never had any problem like this. I personally haven't dealt with this hospital before and from the note my partner left for me from the day before, I could tell she was frustrated dealing with them too.

You never mentioned any of this in your first post, or in your second post, so how would I know? Everything you described gave me the impression that you and your partner did not have any experience in this area. As someone else said, it does seem like you are adding in new "facts" to try to justify your decision.

As I clearly said if my first response, if for some inane reason you could not get the DEA # or an attending to OK the RX, then you GIVE THE RX BACK TO THE PATIENT AND TELL HER TO GO TO THE ER and get it fixed!!!! If the patient refused to do this (why would they???), then I would give them their RX back and tell them you are unable to fill it. I am hard pressed to imagine any scenario where I and my partner would spend over a day and a half calling for a DEA.

I believe you handled the situation incorrectly. I also agree the resident should NOT have yelled at you, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. Your wanting to give out the residents cell phone number (let me guess, you already did this, and just posted on SDN to try to justify your decision after the fact), is unprofessional and does nothing to help the situation. I recommend dropping the matter and handle similar situations different in the future.

As for getting in trouble, what you did is not illegal and you aren't going to "get in trouble" over this. It's just unprofessional. At most, your employer may tell you never to do this again. I suppose if you were repeatedly doing this after your employer asked you not to, then you would get in trouble, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[BidingMyTime]

You are ridiculous....... it's not even funny at this point.
Make up stories? I said we never got pass the operator in my first post because there is only one number to call. The same lady picks up every time we called, I just gave more details on what she said each time.

If the operator refuses to transfer you (seems unlikely).....then wait 5 minutes, call back and say you need to talk to the emergency room. There is NO need to identify yourself or why you are calling. NO hospital is going to refuse to transfer you to the emergency room if you ask for the emergency room (liability.) Or look up a satellite number for the hospital in the phone book (every hospital has lots of numbers for their different departments listed in the phone book), 99.9% chance the direct ER number is listed. If its not, then call a random different department, when someone answers, apologize and tell them you were trying to reach the ER, and then that person will either transfer you there, or give you the ER's number. People call the emergency room all the time, to get advice if they should come in for their problem, to get clarification because they lost their discharge papers and forgot what they should do, to check up on family members.....if all of these people are able to get through to the ER, there is no reason why you or your partner couldn't have figured it out.

 

[zelman]

If you work for a big chain...yes there is. If you don't, proceed to option 2 and 3. It's pretty simple. I can't walk you through everything.

I'm sorry my employer doesn't qualify as a big chain. For those of us who work at the teeny tiny "CVS" pharmacy, and it's apparently only a handful because we aren't a big chain, I guess we'll try one of your other options.

 

[zelman]

...I read that you actually got the resident's cell and called her...and then still didn't resolve the issue. What? LOL. If that isn't incompetence, I don't know what is. You mean to tell me, you waited all this time for her to call you...you got her number and called her... and then you let her go without resolving anything? You opted to wait more?This is laughable...

I have personally dealt with hospital-based providers attempting to phone in controlled substance prescriptions who assert that they do not have a DEA number or suffix, but write for controlled substances all the time. I assume the computer prints it automatically for them and they've never read a prescription before handing it to a patient. Just because you get the ***** who caused the problem on the phone doesn't mean they have the information you need.

 

[Lnsean]

I have personally dealt with hospital-based providers attempting to phone in controlled substance prescriptions who assert that they do not have a DEA number or suffix, but write for controlled substances all the time. I assume the computer prints it automatically for them and they've never read a prescription before handing it to a patient. Just because you get the ***** who caused the problem on the phone doesn't mean they have the information you need.

Then you move onto someone who does. How does citing an inefficiency in one system discredit the thought process that you should be having once you received such a prescription? Does your brain shut down if this happens? Do you close the pharmacy? You are paid 100k to resolve issues and use your judgement.

My suggestions to OP are just that; they are not blue prints. The course of action she took was not the best route and some would say unprofessional. Critical thinking and problem solving are skills that come with experience. If all doctors had to do was follow treatment guidelines, you would have machines and monkeys treating patients. I mean, is OP going to pull out "Lnsean's 3 options for ER scripts" list the next time this happens? NO.

In summary, use your head. You are paid to do your job, now do it.

 

[cnicolef08]

The animosity in this thread is unreal. LOL! Jesus, leave it alone already.