Will you give patient her cell phone?

Started by Estrace
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BidingMyTime said:
You never mentioned any of this in your first post, or in your second post, so how would I know? Everything you described gave me the impression that you and your partner did not have any experience in this area. As someone else said, it does seem like you are adding in new "facts" to try to justify your decision.

As I clearly said if my first response, if for some inane reason you could not get the DEA # or an attending to OK the RX, then you GIVE THE RX BACK TO THE PATIENT AND TELL HER TO GO TO THE ER and get it fixed!!!! If the patient refused to do this (why would they???), then I would give them their RX back and tell them you are unable to fill it. I am hard pressed to imagine any scenario where I and my partner would spend over a day and a half calling for a DEA.

I believe you handled the situation incorrectly. I also agree the resident should NOT have yelled at you, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. Your wanting to give out the residents cell phone number (let me guess, you already did this, and just posted on SDN to try to justify your decision after the fact), is unprofessional and does nothing to help the situation. I recommend dropping the matter and handle similar situations different in the future.

As for getting in trouble, what you did is not illegal and you aren't going to "get in trouble" over this. It's just unprofessional. At most, your employer may tell you never to do this again. I suppose if you were repeatedly doing this after your employer asked you not to, then you would get in trouble, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
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I didn't mention it in my first post because I didn't think it was necessary. I decided to provide more information when some of you starting making assumptions but obviously that didn't help. You and Lnsean sincerely believe that this is the first time in 2.5 years that I have handled an ER prescription in retail? I'm not talking about grocery store retail but big chain retail. Go ahead and believe what you want, doesn't affect me in any way.
Secondly, I didn't give the patient her number. I was just telling my friend about the situation and told her that I should have given the resident's number to the patient so that she can get yelled at just like she did to me. She asked me if I realized that I could get in trouble doing that. I told her that it is not true, I will only end up with an angrier resident. We went back and forth on that for awhile before she hung up and I started thinking. She has more retail experience than I do so I tend to listen to her more but it didn't make sense to me that any pharmacist could actually get in trouble for something like this. I usually post on here whenever I want to know what other pharmacists think.

I don't need to justify anything about this situation. It is done and over with and no one is in trouble for it. It was an isolated case and I believe we handled it the best way we could. It might not be the way you will handle it but every pharmacist is different. I had no intention of posting this incident on SDN because I didn't need justification on how it was handled. I was more curious about a pharmacist actually getting in trouble for giving out a resident's number and why. I only thought it was unprofessional, just didn't believe you can get in trouble for it. My mind set was that if a resident/doctor is rude to me, I have the right to be rude back. It might not be professional, but it's not against the law.
 
Lnsean said:
You know what, forget all that.I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I believe everything about your story.

BUT

I read that you actually got the resident's cell and called her...and then still didn't resolve the issue. What? LOL. If that isn't incompetence, I don't know what is. You mean to tell me, you waited all this time for her to call you...you got her number and called her... and then you let her go without resolving anything? You opted to wait more?This is laughable.

It's this attitude of "no fault" that has caused you and everyone such a major inconvenience over something so small. You insisted that it wasn't your fault...and it wasn't...it was the prescriber's fault that she forgot the DEA number. However, that's never the point. You are paid 100k to solve these issues, not create more. As a health care provider, your job is to do what is in the best interest of your patients. You've failed at all of these.

This is really the takeaway point here. The fact that you're still so persistent on how "awesome" you've acted...how you wanted to "report" this resident....I'm both baffled and ashamed to share in this profession with you.



Actually, you did. You asked me how I would have handled it.

No, I don't believe for a second that you deal with alot of ER scripts based on what you've posted on here so far.
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Your arrogance is laughable . I hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving .
 
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Estrace said:
Your arrogance is laughable . I hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving .
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Arrogance, much like respect, is a two-way street. It only became arrogant because you came here seeking advice but were so persistent in not being wrong. If that's the mentality, then why even ask for advice? Should you have given out the resident's cell number? No and it should have never progressed to that point.

But anyway, enjoy your thanksgiving as well.
 
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The more I read this thread, the more blame I put on the incompetent hospital for failing to discharge their patients correctly.

In my experience on the inpatient side, we've fielded calls about missing info or other issues here and there from various local pharmacies, and since everything is electronic, we take care of our retail brethren and provide them with appropriate license numbers, order clarifications, and whatnot.

Plus, it's much easier for me to get a hold of the physician or someone of authority (I can even physically walk into the ED and harass my favorite docs) and I act as an authorized agent to transmit said prescription/clarification. It's an incredible waste of resources (on our end) to punt the patient back to the ED, so I'd like to think I'm doing my part to save the hospital time/money by doing this.

Hopefully other pharmacists on the inside think this way...and maybe it's worth it to talk to one of your own vs. some random person on the hospital switchboard?
 
Estrace said:
I don't need to justify anything about this situation. It is done and over with and no one is in trouble for it. It was an isolated case and I believe we handled it the best way we could.
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Well, that is where we disagree. I was posting solely to give you advice so when you run into these situations in the future, you can handle them in a more efficient manner, and then you won't have to worry about being inappropriately yelled at by a resident. It is frustrating to me when I know all my suggestions work, to hear you defending your way that took 18 hours to get a pain medicine to the patient. Myself, I like doing things in a better way, and there are always new ways to look at a situation that I hadn't thought of. If I had had such a frustrating situation as yours, I would certainly want to do things differently in the future, and I would try those ideas even if I didn't think they would work, I would figure, even if they don't work, they can't be any worse that what I did last time. I'm sorry you feel like you have to defend your actions, I think we all understand you did what you thought was the best at the time, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to try something different next time.
 
Best way to completely and irreversibly lose the trust you have with a physician is to give a patient his or her cell phone number.
 
BidingMyTime said:
Well, that is where we disagree. I was posting solely to give you advice so when you run into these situations in the future, you can handle them in a more efficient manner, and then you won't have to worry about being inappropriately yelled at by a resident. It is frustrating to me when I know all my suggestions work, to hear you defending your way that took 18 hours to get a pain medicine to the patient. Myself, I like doing things in a better way, and there are always new ways to look at a situation that I hadn't thought of. If I had had such a frustrating situation as yours, I would certainly want to do things differently in the future, and I would try those ideas even if I didn't think they would work, I would figure, even if they don't work, they can't be any worse that what I did last time. I'm sorry you feel like you have to defend your actions, I think we all understand you did what you thought was the best at the time, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to try something different next time.
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I honestly don't feel like responding to you and Lnsean anymore, but I will respond to your last post.
You came into this thread to give me advice when I didn't really ask for any advice on how to resolve this type of situation. You made the assumption that my partner and I are incompetent and that if we had followed your suggestions, things would have turned out differently. You completely refused to believe that we know what we are doing and did in fact tried what you and Lnsean suggested and they didn't work just because of the way this hospital operates. My partner has 12 years of retail experience and has managed several stores in the past, you don't think she knows everything you suggested. I wouldn't even be telling my friend this story if it wasn't unique and strange. Being judgmental on a forum is not necessary because our work environments are different. I know exactly how to do my job and I have no problem asking for advice when I need one. I have asked for advice several times on this forum so I have no issue with learning new things. I have picked up a few tips here sometimes just by reading through different threads. But this situation did not call for any advice. It also did not warrant the type of personal attack you and Lnsean went on.
 
Estrace said:
I honestly don't feel like responding to you and Lnsean anymore, but I will respond to your last post.
You came into this thread to give me advice when I didn't really ask for any advice on how to resolve this type of situation. You made the assumption that my partner and I are incompetent and that if we had followed your suggestions, things would have turned out differently. You completely refused to believe that we know what we are doing and did in fact tried what you and Lnsean suggested and they didn't work just because of the way this hospital operates. My partner has 12 years of retail experience and has managed several stores in the past, you don't think she knows everything you suggested. I wouldn't even be telling my friend this story if it wasn't unique and strange. Being judgmental on a forum is not necessary because our work environments are different. I know exactly how to do my job and I have no problem asking for advice when I need one. I have asked for advice several times on this forum so I have no issue with learning new things. I have picked up a few tips here sometimes just by reading through different threads. But this situation did not call for any advice. It also did not warrant the type of personal attack you and Lnsean went on.
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1) I did not personally attack you. Disagreeing is not a personal attack 2) You did not do everything I suggested--for instance, you never talked to an ER nurse or doctor, nor did you give the script back to the patient to take to the ER 3) posting in a public forum means you will often get unasked for advice. I like others was sincerely trying to give you some ideas. Even if you don't like ideas, the advice given in this thread will undoubtedly help some future lurker or pharmacy student in the most efficient way to handle these situations. Which is the biggest reason to disagree with someone, while it seldom changes the point of view of the other person, it provides valuable information for others reading the thread.
 
honestly, i would have either picked a random doc from that hospital or give the script back to the patient if i was in a strange mood lol

and even though I only quickly scanned this thread, Lnsean was kind condescending in his response
 
Deja said:
honestly, i would have either picked a random doc from that hospital or give the script back to the patient if i was in a strange mood lol

and even though I only quickly scanned this thread, Lnsean was kind condescending in his response
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Only because OP was obviously not here for advice but for validation. It's a two-way street. I call it like I see it.
 
Estrace said:
I honestly don't feel like responding to you and Lnsean anymore, but I will respond to your last post.
You came into this thread to give me advice when I didn't really ask for any advice on how to resolve this type of situation. You made the assumption that my partner and I are incompetent and that if we had followed your suggestions, things would have turned out differently. You completely refused to believe that we know what we are doing and did in fact tried what you and Lnsean suggested and they didn't work just because of the way this hospital operates. My partner has 12 years of retail experience and has managed several stores in the past, you don't think she knows everything you suggested. I wouldn't even be telling my friend this story if it wasn't unique and strange. Being judgmental on a forum is not necessary because our work environments are different. I know exactly how to do my job and I have no problem asking for advice when I need one. I have asked for advice several times on this forum so I have no issue with learning new things. I have picked up a few tips here sometimes just by reading through different threads. But this situation did not call for any advice. It also did not warrant the type of personal attack you and Lnsean went on.
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Nah, you started this thread under the disguise of seeking advice when, really, you were seeking validation.

Here's what really happened: you gave away the resident's cell phone number.

That's why it still bothered you after you got back from work and you weren't sure if you did the right thing. So you came onto these here forums hoping that people on here would tell you that you did nothing wrong, belittle the resident, and joke about how it's everyone's fault but yours.

When others on here disagreed with you and called you out on it, you got highly defensive. In the end, the number was never yours to give out. What you did was highly unprofessional at best and clearly a violation of her privacy...but you fail to see that...but you know...do try to report the resident for being "rude" to you.
 
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Lnsean said:
Nah, you started this thread under the disguise of seeking advice when, really, you were seeking validation.

Here's what really happened: you gave away the resident's cell phone number.

That's why it still bothered you after you got back from work and you weren't sure if you did the right thing. So you came onto these here forums hoping that people on here would tell you that you did nothing wrong, belittle the resident, and joke about how it's everyone's fault but yours.

When others on here disagreed with you and called you out on it, you got highly defensive. In the end, the number was never yours to give out. What you did was highly unprofessional at best and clearly a violation of her privacy...but you fail to see that...but you know...do try to report the resident for being "rude" to you.
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I feel sorry for people who work with you in real. If you're this annoying online, you must be a complete nightmare in real life. I guess you didn't get enough hugs growing up. Here, :hugs: .....feel better?

You really think I care about some resident whose ego is competing with yours? Try someone else.

Seeking for validation? please! try again.

I have been on this forum since 2004 ( just couldn't login into my old account) and I have never seen anyone as annoying as you are on this thread.
 
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Estrace said:
I feel sorry for people who work with you in real. If you're this annoying online, you must be a complete nightmare in real life. I guess you didn't get enough hugs growing up. Here, :hugs: .....feel better?

You really think I care about some resident whose ego is competing with yours? Try someone else.

Seeking for validation? please! try again.

I have been on this forum since 2004 ( just couldn't login into my old account) and I have never seen anyone as annoying as you are on this thread.
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Again, the people on here are not dumb. It is obvious that you gave out the resident's cell number and went on here to seek validation for that decision.

I call it like I see it. No bias.
 
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Digsbe said:
I wouldn't give the patient their cell phone number, it was wrong for the hospital to go into someone's personal life and provide you with their cell number too.
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Many physicians have their cell phones in the directory for the operator to call if paging multiple times fails for true emergencies. Some have dedicated work cells, others it's their personal line.
 
No, I would not give that cell number to the patient. If the patient wants to call hospital and get phone number from the operator, let them do that. For all I know, I might also put someone's job in jeopardy with this.
 
One time I had a shady phone-in rx for a control, so I went to the NPI website and looked up the doctor's info to call the office. Turned out that doc has his cell listed, rather than his office number, and he was all pissed off "how did you get this number, how dare you contact my personal phone" etc. Even when I told him somebody was using his name and calling in fake control rx, he was more upset that I was calling him.
 
This thread is very heated for no reason... I thought people should refrain from personal insult at that level. A lot of things that are said in this thread are uncalled for.
 
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Ackj said:
One time I had a shady phone-in rx for a control, so I went to the NPI website and looked up the doctor's info to call the office. Turned out that doc has his cell listed, rather than his office number, and he was all pissed off "how did you get this number, how dare you contact my personal phone" etc. Even when I told him somebody was using his name and calling in fake control rx, he was more upset that I was calling him.
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Let me tell you how that was all your fault, how you SHOULD be doing your job using simple language and very basic steps. If you don't like it, you shouldn't post on a forum. 😉
 
demayette said:
This thread is very heated for no reason... I thought people should refrain from personal insult at that level. A lot of things that are said in this thread are uncalled for.
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What, are you trying to regulate the internet now? If people are going to go online for input then be prepared. We're not kids but there are no saints here either.
 
Lnsean said:
What, are you trying to regulate the internet now? If people are going to go online for input then be prepared. We're not kids but there are no saints here either.
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Not trying to regulate the internet, but I know it is unprofessional to call someone that you don't know 'lazy' etc...
 
demayette said:
Not trying to regulate the internet, but I know it is unprofessional to call someone that you don't know 'lazy' etc...
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Professionalism is tossed around a lot these days. Not sure many people know what it means anymore. It surely doesn't mean being nice...if that's what you're getting at.
 
Lnsean said:
Professionalism is tossed around a lot these days. Not sure many people know what it means anymore. It surely doesn't mean being nice...if that's what you're getting at.
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They pound that into my head in med school... I probably become a convert. Good luck!
 
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