Woot woot!! COCA isn't messing around

[MADD!!!]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...ts/COCA-APPEAL-PANEL-In-re-LECOM-07022017.pdf

So LECOM has been trying to build a new campus in New York, and COCA has REPEATEDLY shut them down. Still, LECOM keeps appealing the rejections. Just want to give a shoutout to COCA for not just letting DO schools to sprawl up everywhere unless they do have everything in place. They've gotten some bad stigma here and deserve praise when it's warranted.

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[Goro]

Maybe they can stop LMU's expansion to Knoxville?

 

[Neopolymath]

Maybe they can stop LMU's expansion to Knoxville?

Or PCOM's expansion to South Georgia (asinine for soooo many reasons)

 

[Goro]

Or PCOM's expansion to South Georgia (asinine for soooo many reasons)

Yup.

Or anything the Touros are up to.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Oh my school doesn't do this stuff, they just keep on spending medical school tuition money on the vet school ._.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Heard Western is trying to make a 3rd campus in Palm Springs

 

[MADD!!!]

Well two things they stipulated to stop LECOM was 1) making sure there are an adequate # of rotation sites and 2) Enough GME slots for each student to get a residency.

Maybe they weren't as strict before, but I think they've stepped it up now.

 

[MADD!!!]

Heard Western is trying to make a 3rd campus in Palm Springs

Really?!!

 

[NurWollen]

Oh my school doesn't do this stuff, they just keep on spending medical school tuition money on the vet school ._.

Lol I know what school you go to. I think...

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[Giovanotto]

Heard Western is trying to make a 3rd campus in Palm Springs

Dear god, let this not be true.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Really?!!

Dear god, let this not be true.

It's part of the rumor mill. I've also heard it could be near the San Diego area. We'll see what happens.

 

[MADD!!!]

It's part of the rumor mill. I've also heard it could be near the San Diego area. We'll see what happens.

It would make a lot of applicants in CA happy... I would've been one of them. Much rather train in Palm Springs or San Diego than Pomona. If that happens I could easily see it being the first case where the branch campus is harder to get into than the main campus, lmaooo

 

[osteopathicmedstudent]

Maybe they canstopall the Mctouros from gro2wing like weeds

 

[throw_away5122]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...ts/COCA-APPEAL-PANEL-In-re-LECOM-07022017.pdf

So LECOM has been trying to build a new campus in New York, and COCA has REPEATEDLY shut them down. Still, LECOM keeps appealing the rejections. Just want to give a shoutout to COCA for not just letting DO schools to sprawl up everywhere unless they do have everything in place. They've gotten some bad stigma here and deserve praise when it's warranted.

yeah but COCA won't stop anyone to open DO school in a garage to save a few bucks.

 

[MADD!!!]

yeah but COCA won't stop anyone to open DO school in a garage to save a few bucks.

Infrastructure is less important than resources. The main reason it won't fly with MD schools is because I believe LCME requires a research component be built into the medical school while DO schools don't need it. So if you can take a garage and build a lab in it and get papers published from it that'll do, loll (along with all the other requirements needed).

I could care less if my school was in a garage... my school is just a building. It's the clinical rotation sites and affiliated residencies that matter to me.

 

[Scrubs101]

I could care less if my school was in a garage... my school is just a building. It's the clinical rotation sites and affiliated residencies that matter to me.

If COCA wants to open up a school in a dumpster id be fine as long as they had solid rotations and provided a decent amount of OPTI. (Ignoring the fact that more schools in general isnt really what we need at the moment)

 

[MADD!!!]

My schools not quite a garage, but it is a very old building. Not like any of the gorgeous new building i saw on the interview trail, but amen to this ^^

If COCA wants to open up a school in a dumpster id be fine as long as they had solid rotations and provided a decent amount of OPTI. (Ignoring the fact that more schools in general isnt really what we need at the moment)

Our schools can be dumpsters.... but those hospitals better not be!

 

[throw_away5122]

Infrastructure is less important than resources. The main reason it won't fly with MD schools is because I believe LCME requires a research component be built into the medical school while DO schools don't need it. So if you can take a garage and build a lab in it and get papers published from it that'll do, loll (along with all the other requirements needed).

I could care less if my school was in a garage... my school is just a building. It's the clinical rotation sites and affiliated residencies that matter to me.

Sadly clinical rotation from DO school do not fare better. How about community hospital where you see LAP chole & chest pain everyday and do not even have a CAT lab? How about have to fight over since there is 7 of you and only couple patients to go around.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

It's part of the rumor mill. I've also heard it could be near the San Diego area. We'll see what happens.

Rumor mill also has it that COMP is amending the curriculum substantially starting next year. Caps on the amount of class hours per week and less OMM--so the rumor goes.

 

[Giovanotto]

Rumor mill also has it that COMP is amending the curriculum substantially starting next year. Caps on the amount of class hours per week and less OMM--so the rumor goes.

I can confirm this rumor. Who knows if/when it will actually go into effect.

 

[MADD!!!]

I can confirm this rumor. Who knows if/when it will actually go into effect.

Probably very soon... I think the merger has COMP on a real scare.

And depends on the school....

 

[NurWollen]

Probably very soon... I think the merger has COMP on a real scare.

And depends on the school....

Why is COMP scared? Afraid their residency programs will close? Remember the merger doesn't directly affect schools. I can see an indirect effect however as DO programs go ACGME, they might seek tighter affiliation with MD schools.

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[AlbinoHawk DO]

Rumor mill also has it that COMP is amending the curriculum substantially starting next year. Caps on the amount of class hours per week and less OMM--so the rumor goes.

It is true. They are doing those changes. I have a friendship with a faculty member that has told me directly. I don't know about the next year part.

 

[MADD!!!]

Why is COMP scared? Afraid their residency programs will close? Remember the merger doesn't directly affect schools. I can see an indirect effect however as DO programs go ACGME, they might seek tighter affiliation with MD schools.

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It affects schools in that they historically could boast 100% match rates. With the merger, those empty former AOA slots will be filled with IMG's/FMG's in the match. That's one. Two, in relation to COMP, 50%+ of their residents went into their OPTI's residencies, and now that those will be ACGME it puts more pressure on COMP students to have to compete at the same level as MD's for the same spots.

It's crazy, but I've spoken to Adcoms at MSU and it's spooked them too. They have the least reason to be worried, but they still are. I spoke to an adcom from NYIT too and they said they're changing their admissions policies to recruit around the nation now as opposed to before when they were more regionally biased. In short, it affects schools because they want to still show 100% match (placement) rates, which will be harder to do post merger.

 

[NurWollen]

It affects schools in that they historically could boast 100% match rates. With the merger, those empty former AOA slots will be filled with IMG's/FMG's in the match. That's one. Two, in relation to COMP, 50%+ of their residents went into their OPTI's residencies, and now that those will be ACGME it puts more pressure on COMP students to have to compete at the same level as MD's for the same spots.

It's crazy, but I've spoken to Adcoms at MSU and it's spooked them too. They have the least reason to be worried, but they still are. I spoke to an adcom from NYIT too and they said they're changing their admissions policies to recruit around the nation now as opposed to before when they were more regionally biased. In short, it affects schools because they want to still show 100% match (placement) rates, which will be harder to do post merger.

I hadn't thought about that but those are good points.

I think it's going to be super program dependent as far as which programs will start taking more MD's and IMGs, and which ones will keep taking mostly DOs. There are programs, mostly newer ones affiliated with DO schools that have opened in the last 20ish years, that will be more than happy to welcome MDs. One of my school's surgery programs that has initial accreditation is no longer part of my school's OPTI but is instead spondered buy it's hospital. On the other hand, there are DO residency programs in the old DO strongholds- OK, MI, PA, Etc that have initial accreditation but are still only participating in the AOA match.

 

[Scrubs101]

It affects schools in that they historically could boast 100% match rates. With the merger, those empty former AOA slots will be filled with IMG's/FMG's in the match. That's one. Two, in relation to COMP, 50%+ of their residents went into their OPTI's residencies, and now that those will be ACGME it puts more pressure on COMP students to have to compete at the same level as MD's for the same spots.

It's crazy, but I've spoken to Adcoms at MSU and it's spooked them too. They have the least reason to be worried, but they still are. I spoke to an adcom from NYIT too and they said they're changing their admissions policies to recruit around the nation now as opposed to before when they were more regionally biased. In short, it affects schools because they want to still show 100% match (placement) rates, which will be harder to do post merger.

We recently had a survey sent out to every in the system from students to residents and physicians, asking our thoughts on osteopathic recognition. They released the results like 2-3 days after and it seems everyone was really pushing for it, and in my own opinion the research itself seemed to be in the interest of pushing for people to realize that. I don't know the specifics of osteopathic recognition at all tbh, just kind of assuming it would result in residencies staying more open towards favoring DO's

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

On the other hand, there are DO residency programs in the old DO strongholds- OK, MI, PA, Etc that have initial accreditation but are still only participating in the AOA match.

This is the last year that that will happen. The AOA match will probably be extinct by next year.

It affects schools in that they historically could boast 100% match rates. With the merger, those empty former AOA slots will be filled with IMG's/FMG's in the match. That's one. Two, in relation to COMP, 50%+ of their residents went into their OPTI's residencies, and now that those will be ACGME it puts more pressure on COMP students to have to compete at the same level as MD's for the same spots.

It's crazy, but I've spoken to Adcoms at MSU and it's spooked them too. They have the least reason to be worried, but they still are. I spoke to an adcom from NYIT too and they said they're changing their admissions policies to recruit around the nation now as opposed to before when they were more regionally biased. In short, it affects schools because they want to still show 100% match (placement) rates, which will be harder to do post merger.

LOL School's really don't care about the merger as much as you think they do. Most administrators don't know much about it. Western is changing their curriculum because they have been getting feedback from students for years that they hate the large group/ small group format and learning medicine with podiatry students, etc.
It's "business as usual" for most DO schools. There are a ton of new DO campuses that have not opened up a single residency program (Marian, Incarnate Word, BCOM, LUCOM, VCOM). You think they care about the merger? If they did they would have rushed and opened up new programs so they could be eligible for the more lenient current standards before the ACGME takes total control.
tl;dr: school's don't care about the merger; it's "business as usual" for most administrators.

 

[NurWollen]

This is the last year that that will happen. The AOA match will probably be extinct by next year.




LOL School's really don't care about the merger as much as you think they do. Most administrators don't know much about it. Western is changing their curriculum because they have been getting feedback from students for years that they hate the large group/ small group format and learning medicine with podiatry students, etc.
It's "business as usual" for most DO schools. There are a ton of new DO campuses that have not opened up a single residency program (Marian, Incarnate Word, BCOM, LUCOM, VCOM). You think they care about the merger? If they did they would have rushed and opened up new programs so they could be eligible for the more lenient current standards before the ACGME takes total control.
tl;dr: school's don't care about the merger; it's "business as usual" for most administrators.

Western students complained about taking classes with podiatry students? Why?

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[TheaterOfTheme]

Western students complained about taking classes with podiatry students? Why?

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Well I guess that's something you have to experience to understand. They are a bit different bunch--to put it nicely.

 

[Scrubs101]

This is the last year that that will happen. The AOA match will probably be extinct by next year.




LOL School's really don't care about the merger as much as you think they do. Most administrators don't know much about it. Western is changing their curriculum because they have been getting feedback from students for years that they hate the large group/ small group format and learning medicine with podiatry students, etc.
It's "business as usual" for most DO schools. There are a ton of new DO campuses that have not opened up a single residency program (Marian, Incarnate Word, BCOM, LUCOM, VCOM). You think they care about the merger? If they did they would have rushed and opened up new programs so they could be eligible for the more lenient current standards before the ACGME takes total control.
tl;dr: school's don't care about the merger; it's "business as usual" for most administrators.

I think theres a correlation between having OPTI at a DO school and discussing the merger because that may be true for some schools. But we hear about things related to the merger in some way shape or form at least a few times a week (mostly via emails), some meetings, and plenty of opionated resources on what to expect

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

It is true. They are doing those changes. I have a friendship with a faculty member that has told me directly. I don't know about the next year part.

Interesting. The next year part could be the rumor part.

Do any of you all know what is up with OPTIs in the future? This is a question I still have not been able to clarify. COMP has a huge OPTI compared to some schools--and I know they are opening more residencies (100 positions, not all PGY-1 obviously) at a new hospital within 4 years. What is the role of OPTIs in the future??

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

I think theres a correlation between having OPTI at a DO school and discussing the merger because that may be true for some schools. But we hear about things related to the merger in some way shape or form at least a few times a week (mostly via emails), some meetings, and plenty of opionated resources on what to expect

Interesting, my school (COMP) has an OPTI and we hear less frequently--maybe about 2x per month.

 

[Scrubs101]

Interesting, my school (COMP) has an OPTI and we hear less frequently--maybe about 2x per month.

I definitely over exaggerated, that sounds a bit more realistic. Ive been utilizing a lot of our online “career” planning resources lately so I’ve just seen it discussed a bit more that usual lately.

 

[Mad Jack]

Sadly clinical rotation from DO school do not fare better. How about community hospital where you see LAP chole & chest pain everyday and do not even have a CAT lab? How about have to fight over since there is 7 of you and only couple patients to go around.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, at least where I rotated. Sure, we didn't have a cath lab, but how much benefit are you getting as a third year by having one on your general IM month? And we had more than enough patients to go around- two hundred beds and 18 ICU beds are more than enough for two students at a time.

 

[Mad Jack]

This is the last year that that will happen. The AOA match will probably be extinct by next year.




LOL School's really don't care about the merger as much as you think they do. Most administrators don't know much about it. Western is changing their curriculum because they have been getting feedback from students for years that they hate the large group/ small group format and learning medicine with podiatry students, etc.
It's "business as usual" for most DO schools. There are a ton of new DO campuses that have not opened up a single residency program (Marian, Incarnate Word, BCOM, LUCOM, VCOM). You think they care about the merger? If they did they would have rushed and opened up new programs so they could be eligible for the more lenient current standards before the ACGME takes total control.
tl;dr: school's don't care about the merger; it's "business as usual" for most administrators.

Not necessarily true- the AOA match can continue to exist even post-merger if programs with osteopathic recognition want to snag DOs before they enter the ACGME match. It would basically serve as a DO prematch for insecure programs and applicants.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I hadn't thought about that but those are good points.

I think it's going to be super program dependent as far as which programs will start taking more MD's and IMGs, and which ones will keep taking mostly DOs. There are programs, mostly newer ones affiliated with DO schools that have opened in the last 20ish years, that will be more than happy to welcome MDs. One of my school's surgery programs that has initial accreditation is no longer part of my school's OPTI but is instead spondered buy it's hospital. On the other hand, there are DO residency programs in the old DO strongholds- OK, MI, PA, Etc that have initial accreditation but are still only participating in the AOA match.

Yeah all of our programs have said they won’t be taking MDs. The whole OPTI thing is because the OPTIs aren’t technically a part of the school and are having a hard time getting ACGME accred as sponsorship institutions.

I don't know the specifics of osteopathic recognition at all tbh, just kind of assuming it would result in residencies staying more open towards favoring DO's

All of our programs are going to do it and apparently it means that for MDs to apply they would need to do about 200 hours of OMM training. Our surgery director said it was basically a way to tell MDs “thanks but no thanks.”

 

[MADD!!!]

Yeah all of our programs have said they won’t be taking MDs. The whole OPTI thing is because the OPTIs aren’t technically a part of the school and are having a hard time getting ACGME accred as sponsorship institutions.



All of our programs are going to do it and apparently it means that for MDs to apply they would need to do about 200 hours of OMM training. Our surgery director said it was basically a way to tell MDs “thanks but no thanks.”

loll I know at least one FM residency in PA doing the same thing.... apparently PCOM might be in the works to set something up for MD's to get the hours if they wanted to.

 

[samac]

Maybe they can stop LMU's expansion to Knoxville?

Wut? DCOM is already only a hour away from Knoxville and their Harrogate students rotate there.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Ross University School of Medicine to Relocate Temporarily to Knoxville, Tenn. for Continuation of Medical School Classes

 

[DO2015CA]

Ross University School of Medicine to Relocate Temporarily to Knoxville, Tenn. for Continuation of Medical School Classes

Lol whaaa

 

[Goro]

Ross University School of Medicine to Relocate Temporarily to Knoxville, Tenn. for Continuation of Medical School Classes

Ya think a large amount of money changed hands over this???

 

[trs88]

Lol whaaa

Yup, that's pretty much what my class and I are saying.

 

[MADD!!!]

Ya think a large amount of money changed hands over this???

Is that even a question?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yup, that's pretty much what my class and I are saying.

Reframe: think about all the beach babes that will now make life in Harrogate much more exciting.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Reframe: think about all the beach babes that will now make life in Harrogate much more exciting.

But they are all in Knoxville, not in Harrogate. No fringe benefits.

Curious tho, now that they are on the mainland, are they still considered IMG?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But they are all in Knoxville, not in Harrogate. No fringe benefits.

Curious tho, now that they are on the mainland, are they still considered IMG?

Yes they are still IMG because their school is accredited by a foreign accreditor for whatever island they came from.

Edit: well Harrogate now goes back to the same place it was before.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Yes they are still IMG because their school is accredited by a foreign accreditor for whatever island they came from.

Edit: well Harrogate now goes back to the same place it was before.

Perhaps Ross can make an 'arrangement' with COCA since they obviously approved the facilities already.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Perhaps Ross can make an 'arrangement' with COCA since they obviously approved the facilities already.

I’m sure Ross will try. Hopefully COCA does it because I’m sure that would be highly illegal and COCA would then be stripped of its accreditor privileges and the schools would be forced to seek LCME accred.

 

[saltydog15]

Ya think a large amount of money changed hands over this???

Exactly what all us students are thinking. No word from admin at all.


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[Noisewater-TDX]

So, question.

Why can DO schools "sprawl out" and have all these satellite campuses or found new schools but MD schools don't? I know a few do, UNC has a satellite campus in Asheville, Washington has campuses in AK and MT.

Is it just cheaper to start a DO school vs an MD school??