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would a socialized healthcare system affect dentistry?

Discussion in 'Dental' started by dc-10, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. dc-10

    dc-10 Senior Member
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    If Hilary is elected president and she gets her way with a socialized healthcare system, how would this affect dentistry? I have heard that MD reimbursement would decrease quite a bit. Would DDS reimbursement also go down?
     
  2. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    Most dental insurance companies now have a yearly max payment of between 1000 and 2000 dollars. Anyone in private practice whether GP, Endo, Ortho, Pedo, OMFS, Perio knows how it works now. Dental insurance is like a coupon that gives the patient 1000-2000 off treatment yearly. Socialized dentistry should only affect dentists who sign up for programs. In true fee for service dentistry your fee is your fee whether insurance covers it or not. I hope that dentists(all of us) would stay united and never let a universal fee schedule be imposed. As of now noone can force you to accept less than you normal fee unless you sign a contract with them.

    Remember an acceptable fee is the fee that you are willing to accept without losing your gratitude and that your patient is willing to pay without losing theirs
     
  3. LonestarYankee

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    #1-- Hilary will NOT be elected president in the next election. Period.
    #2-- See #1
     
  4. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    I hope you are right
     
  5. OceanDMD

    OceanDMD Rather be fishing
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    I dearly hope you are right. Healthcare is one of the major issues in this country. The democratic party wants to provide universal healthcare for the underprivileged (valiant indeed) but at the expense of the higher incomed americans. Just because we bust our asses, go through 8 years of school beyond highschool, and then bust more asses to pay bills, fund retirement, and put our kids through college does not mean we should be taxed to the gills. There are other ways to motivate the IRRESPONSIBLE to earn ways to pay for their healthcare. Its a shame what insurance itself has done to the field of general medicine.

    Yes I am a republican, and the opinions expressed are mine only, assumed to be disagreed upon:) :D :D :D
     
  6. 12YearOldKid

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    In Hillary's last proposed healthcare plan it would have been ILLEGAL to practice outside of the government system. You don't choose to sign up; you do what they tell you to do or you find a new job.
     
  7. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    Simple solution would be to give giant tax incentives for dentists to spend 1 day per month at a county dental clinic. This will not happen because the tax money that is collected from us doesn't go to dental care, it goes to every possible thing but dental care. Access to care could be solved by placing incentives.
     
  8. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    That would be impossible. If you are practicing currently and the federal government says " If you practice dentistry outside of the gov sys it is illegal" Than we have alot more to worry about than our jobs.
     
  9. Daurang

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    The state of Connecticut is planning an extra 3% tax on doctors based on their revenues to pay for universal healthcare. It' only a matter of time before the Hillary/Obama/Edward team to take this proposal nationwide. Does Communist China/Vietnam accept political refugees? I may just retire early there and not deal with this crap.
     
  10. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    Raise your fees 3 % extra and it's a wash:oops:
     
  11. fightingspirit

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    dont worry about people disagreeing with you. 99.999% of SDN is republican all the way. but why do you feel comfortable about calling those who are uninsured or underinsured "irresponsible"?....you are assuming that people who make it to dental/medical/law/business school do so primarily because of their "hard work" and "ass busting".....sure! it's us who study for the DAT; it's us who do well in academics but do not forget the assets that we were lucky to have due to the favorable environmental/socio-economic conditions we were raised in
     
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  12. dheav005

    dheav005 keepin' it movin'
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    the last time hillary tried her 'healthcare czar' schtick, the governer here in tennessee bought it...hook, line, and sinker. take a survey around the state and find out how well tenncare works. wait, let me save you the time...it doesnt.
     
  13. OceanDMD

    OceanDMD Rather be fishing
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    Dont think of it as a generalization. There are truelly the underprivileged, and then those that take advantage of the system. I myself feel that if you are going to have children(or father children), multiple, without being married, without a realistic income to provide for these children, dependent on the government for your healthcare. Dependent on the government for your dental care. (and some of these families are 3 and 4 children)If there is neglect of these children--ie not taking them to the dentist resulting in a dental infection that KILLS the child, you are being irresponsible. Everyone makes mistakes, but when you make the same mistake 3 and 4 times, and the kids are the affected, this is irresponsible. Birth control is not an expensive thing.
     
  14. JamieMac

    JamieMac Elite Member
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    I couldn't agree more - even if the incentives weren't "giant"...it could be very attractive. Very interesting point.
     
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  15. fightingspirit

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    and i cannot agree with you more. but this is the stereotype of the wellfare queen that reagan coined. and sure, there are wellfare queens and kings. but then there are many decent families that have one or two kids and yet cannot get insurance. for instance, the state of maine is particularly troubled by this because it does not have many high-paying jobs. so families are decent but the jobs just dont pay much. the result is not enough money to afford insurance. by the way, i am not a fan of hillary and i have no idea about what could be done about the festering sore of american healthcare. my point is that the solution is not easy. so one cannot easily and quickly dismiss a plan (single-payer/government insurance) by simply broaching one of the hackneyed conservative arguments......you know...the whole argument of taxes punish hard workers and reward the lazies. i just think it's an oversimplification. no one knows how america is going to address the problem of healthcare but what we all know is that this is an issue that ought to be and will be addressed eventhough politicians just dont wanna deal with it.

    although i think it is reasonable to have some doubt about the effieciency and transparency of the government, i do not think it is reasonable to distrust it more than distrusting the slimy big heads who run the HMOs. i understand that americans are generally pro-business and so no one wants to put any blame on insurance companies that are viewed as a bunch of businesses that must not be heavily regulated. but some business men are scoundrels and probably more slimy than plutocrats.
     
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  16. OMFSCardsFan

    OMFSCardsFan Senior Member
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    Because we experience it every day.

    Every day that I spend in the "underpriviliged" hospital fosters a more Republican attitude. I am so tired of hearing the same bullsh*t sob stories from the patients. Maybe 1 out of 100 of the patients here is actually trying to do something better with his life, while the rest just sit and complain about how Medicaid doesn't have good enough coverage, they have to wait too long to see a doctor, their food stamps aren't enough to support their BMI of 40. I used to vote based on the people running for office. Now, I pretty much go Republican. At least they are realistic. In a perfect world, where everyone puts forth his or her best effort, democratic-type ideas would work. In the real world, it's a joke. The people that we're trying to help are not going to help us help them. They are going to sit back and take us for a ride. Hilary needs to be on antipsychotics...
     
  17. Fuji

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    I recently overheard some grad students bragging about how great it is to be on welfare. These students have multiple kids and are living off stipends, so they qualify for food stamps and free health care. That's fine with me, because that's what the system is for. What bothered me is the attitude. They absolutely love getting "free" money from the government, not realizing that ultimately that money is coming out of my (and maybe your) paycheck.

    Granted, these folks are in grad school so they will probably go on and have successful, tax-paying careers. But what about all those other people who are not as ambitious? They will go on living off other people's hard work even though some of them (not all) are fully able to support themselves.
     
  18. 1992Corolla

    1992Corolla CheerioKing
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    This is a great thread. I see where Fuji is coming from and I, for the record do participate in government aid. I have probably also bragged about it sometimes, but in no way was it geared toward the wrong attitude (hopefully no one thought of it that way). My justification is that yes I will be paying back into the system 3x what I got out of it when I get my first couple of paychecks (very conservative paychecks). What does bother me about the foodstamp/medicaid is the LIFERS of these programs. I have visited the government offices here in Philly and it is a miserable site. Granted there are people in there who are tough on times and have pride and will get back on their feet, but there are plenty of people who have been on it, thier parents are on it, thier grandparents were on it. Visit your local government subsidized housing and you can easily find three generations of families who have lived i the same apartment and all of them happen to be victims of society.
    Programs like this were set up for people to get back into the game of life (or those who are trying to get into it (us students)). Not a free ride.

    Other great qoutes in this thread:
     
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  19. OceanDMD

    OceanDMD Rather be fishing
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    BMI of 40, 4 kids (none of which are afforded the proper health/dental care)

    AMEN....
     
  20. dent11

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    I remember when I was in high school and worked at a restaurant, one of the staff members used to get her money in cash while all the rest of us got checks. I couldn't figure out why at first, until after I left the job and saw her again somewhere and it came up that she was on welfare. It still didn't hit me right there, but later on I realized that not only had she been on welfare the whole time, but she was working under the table at this restaurant making VERY good money! Then what's the need for welfare here (i mean in her case)?!

    I agree with you all, too many people take advantage of the welfare system!
     
  21. Daurang

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    Did you get all your tips in checks too? If not, did you reported your cash as income on the 1099? No!? Then you cheated too so what are you complaining about?
     
  22. Walleye

    Walleye Junior Member
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    My dentist friends gives many hours of work to senior citizens and nursing homes. It isn't fair to label charity work as just people that are lazy, there are lots of people that need help that can not make their lives better. She also does lots of work in homes for handicapped people. When I go with her, I see the rewards of just the pure joy of seeing people feel better and I helped. We watched a young medical professional die of cancer, leaving behind children and a wife, huge bills and losing everything. Anyone, at any time can find themselves in a bad situation. We need safety nets, and if some abuse it, punish them, but not everyone.
     
  23. Jaybe

    Jaybe Lazy Tongs
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    I really don't know how they pulled this off. . .

    When I was a recently married 2nd year in dental school, My wife was unable to work or go to school, I was in dental school, we where living off of only MY educational loan money, we had combined savings of $2000, a shared Toyota Corolla worth about 10,000 (Blue Book) and thats it.

    I had a friend who suggested I go get food stamps. I was like, "WTF, are you serious????" And he said he was on them and had been for years. I went in and applied and was totally disgusted by my food stamp line cohorts. Then the lady basically laughed at me for trying to get food stamps. I think she actually suggested that I sell my car, then after the money was gone I should come back and try again.

    Does that sound like a productive system???
     
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  24. Daurang

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    You do not qualify for food stamp if you own a car. You can put the car under someone else's name, as many have done, and then qualify for foodstamp, subsidized utilities, low rents, and free healthcare. Then quit dental schools, work in a restaurant or hair/nail/massage salon taking cash only (I know a few that makes $6000-$10000/month cash), have an illegitimate child (don't get marriage license even if you have a husband), and you're set for massive freebies the next 18 years. I wish I knew sooner but I found out too late from the many "welfare queens" I treated. :mad: If Hillarycare goes through and my taxes go through the roof, I'll very likely retire very early and follow my patients' wise path. Socialism provides no incentive and reward so why work so hard?
     
  25. dent11

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    Damn..wish I would have been smart enough to ask for tips...instead I was stupid and worked for an hourly wage as a hostess without any tips...darn! Next time though, I'll definitely keep this idea in mind, thanks Daurang! :idea:
     
  26. Daurang

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    I feel for you dent11...part of your paycheck is supporting the "welfare" waitress whose salary is twice as yours.
     
  27. mg777

    mg777 Tooth Mechanic
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    Hillary is not going to get the nomination, and forget presidency. The DNC knows she has no chance of winning the national election. Right now, I'd say it's going to be obama vs. giuliani.
     
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  28. Jaybe

    Jaybe Lazy Tongs
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    Top ten Reasons Barack Obama will never be elected President:

    1) His name 'Obama' is only ONE LETTER different from 'Osama'. The connotations of the name Osama (bin Laden) will live on for many years, so Obama is toast.
    2) the rest of the reasons don't really even matter.
     
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  29. atomi

    atomi Member
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    Sorry, check your math.

    In order to make the same amount as you did before, you would need to increase your fees 3.092783505%.

    If you don't believe me, take a fee, raise it by 3%, then take 3% off of that. You don't get the same number you started with.
     
  30. apaul

    apaul Some Dude
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    :rolleyes:
     
  31. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    OK raise it 4% Now it becomes profitable:laugh:
     
  32. UKdent

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    just curious about your math... I know it's been a few years since i have taken an actual math class... but where did you get this number from 3.092783505%

    I have done it a few times(by plugging in numbers and using a formula) and all i seem to get is 3.09000000 %....
     
  33. OMFSCardsFan

    OMFSCardsFan Senior Member
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    I'll enjoy seeing the look on your patient's face when you charge them $132.3498980734 for the procedure...go play with your erector set...
     
  34. MacGyver

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    Dentistry is mostly immune from national health care for the moment. I havent heard any proposals for universal dental care from any politicians yet.

    Medicine and dentistry are a world apart. In the medicine world, 99% of all healthcare dollars are controlled by insurance companies and the govt. In the dental world, that number is only 50%.

    Dentists still have power to set whatever fees they want for the most part, limited by free market competition by other dentists.

    Doctors on the other hand lost their power to charge their "usual and customary fees" many years ago. A surgeon can "charge" 10,000 for a lung transplant but the insurance company and Medicare are still only going to give him a few hundred bucks.

    Word of advice: make sure dentistry resists any further penetration by insurance or government. The moment you guys let them run your field like medicine, you will see your salaries plummet. There's a reason why dentists make more money than primary care doctors these days and it has nothing to do with market worth.
     
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  35. Tired Pigeon

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    Just visiting over here from the allo side .... but this question made me think about British dentistry (or lack thereof). If that's what socialized dentistry looks like, I hope you guys can manage to stay out of it.
     
  36. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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    :laugh:
     
  37. MsPurtell

    MsPurtell Guest

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    It won't happen if we don't let it happen.

    And, I agree with whoever said Hillary won't get elected.

     
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  38. HenryH

    HenryH AA-S
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    What do dental school faculty think of socialized dental care?

    I ask, because I'm considering creating a pre-dental club with an adamant anti-socialized healthcare stance. However, if admissions officers at dental schools share the same pro-universal health view like the vast majority of medical school committees do, then I'm not touching that...
     
  39. Jaybe

    Jaybe Lazy Tongs
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    Its a mixed bag. Generally practicioners oppose socialized medicine more than they support it, but there are plenty that favor it. Especially Pediatric Dentistry faculty. They tend to favor it (for children at least) because they see so many kids suffer at no fault of their own. You will find that the sentiments of dental faculty will likely somewhat reflect the sentiments of the region of the country you are in or from which the faculty originated.

    I support your endeavor, but I would warn you about being too "in your face" about it. As an applicant, this is an area where you have to tread lightly and respectfully. As you have probably learned, conservative views are quickly labeled as "narrow minded" or even "fascist" by liberals. (Nevermind that liberals are equally narrowminded in their stubborn resistance to so-called conservative thought, but that's another discussion that revolves around semantics) So, create the club. Then have debates, speakers, etc. Promote your agenda, but do so respectfully. You want to be able to discuss your views intelligently with people who agree and disagree (because your ADCOMS will have liberals and conservatives). Even a liberal who opposes your club's agenda is likely to think highly of you if you are able to respectfully defend your position. It will show confidence and maturity on your part. However, if your arguments seem trite or self centered, you might be looked upon disfavorably.

    Good luck.
     
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  40. Lesley

    Lesley Member
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    I think it's great that you're creating a pre-dental club; however, I think it would be incorrect to assume that many or all dentists are against some form of universal/socialized healthcare. If you take an adamant, anti-socialized health care stance, considering many are without insurance and those that do may have relatives and friends without, your position may appear unempathetic and premature, especially considering you are only an undergraduate. Maybe your organization could entertain more than one view, including a middle ground. Remember, many of the patients at dental schools are medicare/medicaid patients whose only means of health care delivery is provided through the government and the schools that participate. Best Wishes.
     
  41. jefguth

    jefguth Senior Member
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    MacGyver gives very good advice here. Resist further third party involvement, of any kind - be it private insurance or socialized medicine, in dentisty and it will continue to be a lucrative field. In the Canadian system dentists generally work outside of the public system and can only bill provincial insurance for "medically necessary" procedures (which is mostly OMFS type stuff) otherwise they collect fee's either directly from the patient, or private 3rd party dental insurance (usually a benefit of employment). The result - Canadian dentists on average do better than all the other health professionals.
     
  42. Lesley

    Lesley Member
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  43. docj1

    docj1 Walleye Whacker
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  44. 1992Corolla

    1992Corolla CheerioKing
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    I wanted to clear up the misconception (mainly a technicality) about welfare and food stamps.

    They are not one in the same. I get money for food, but am not on welfare. Welfare is basically a full time job anyway. If you are on welfare you get money for rent, clothes, gas, etc. You have to do a certain amount of service per month (like volunteer boys and girls club) and you do have to have a job and work a little (but heaven forbid you schedule MORE hours and make a decent living).

    Food stamps is a seperate office, filling out seperate paper work. You CAN own a car and get food stamps (just a 10k corolla is I guess deemed too much...) my cars (one is broken) are combined worth less than 2k. Food stamps is government aid though and should be set up for people trying to better their current situation (like many medical and dental students as well as other professional students) and give back to society in the form of being in the 45% tax bracket income level:rolleyes:

    Because I know I will pay back into this program many times over I do not feel bad taking advantage of it.
     
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  45. Jaybe

    Jaybe Lazy Tongs
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    BULL!
     
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  46. 1992Corolla

    1992Corolla CheerioKing
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    Whether the person actually does it or not is where the program fails to help people contribute to society.

    Trust me I have looked into every money program the government offers.
     
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  47. Lesley

    Lesley Member
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  48. 12YearOldKid

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    God save us all.
     
  49. Lesley

    Lesley Member
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    Attending Physician

    Don't worry, Hilary will!:D
     
  50. superchris147

    superchris147 Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
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    :barf:

    if i had any feeling left in my chest/extremities i would type a longer response
     

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