Would you have gone to an MD school if you were accepted into one?

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True, this just looked like a cause and effect type statement:


I am a little confused though... in what context did this take place? This sounds like stories I have heard of MS3s being told by sexist PDs to go into ob/gyn or something like that.... I am strugging to find a context in which a pre-med would have this interaction.

Ok, don't be confused. Remember that I went to undergrad in Alaska? Alaska has no medical schools. So at that time (early 90's) the University tried to have program directors come up and have 1 on 1 meetings with prospective pre-med students to "help" them get an idea of what type of package was needed in order to gain acceptance into medical school.There was no pre-med advising at that time. It was a closed door meeting. So instead of getting constructive criticism as to how to improve my application, all I got was "women don't belong in medicine and you need not apply to our school". Needless to say I was not expecting that type of "help" and I left in shock. So it wasn't until 7years later that I had a whole group of physician's at the hospital I worked at rally and help me get into school.

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Ok, don't be confused. Remember that I went to undergrad in Alaska? Alaska has no medical schools. So at that time (early 90's) the University tried to have program directors come up and have 1 on 1 meetings with prospective pre-med students to "help" them get an idea of what type of package was needed in order to gain acceptance into medical school.There was no pre-med advising at that time. It was a closed door meeting. So instead of getting constructive criticism as to how to improve my application, all I got was "women don't belong in medicine and you need not apply to our school". Needless to say I was not expecting that type of "help" and I left in shock. So it wasn't until 7years later that I had a whole group of physician's at the hospital I worked at rally and help me get into school.

Were you the only girl that was interested in medicine? If not there were probably a lot of young girls that left feeling the same way as you. How disappointing!
 
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If I get into TCOM, I'll choose this school over an out-of-state acceptance such as Temple or a public MD school with 50k+/yr tuition.
 
Were you the only girl that was interested in medicine? If not there were probably a lot of young girls that left feeling the same way as you. How disappointing!

No kidding. Thats pretty inappropriate.
 
What about TCOM vs UT Southwestern?

Touch choice. If I had the (stellar) grades and loved research, then definitely UT/SW. But if a fluke that I got in UTSW and TCOM I feel I'd be much happier over in Ft. Worth, especially since if I can perform well academically for a UT acceptance, then hypothetically, I can run the tables at TCOM and pwn the USMLE. ;) Now if you throw UTMB in the mix...different story. Whatever makes a student happy and successful is the important element. :)
 
No, I wasn't the only girl. It wasn't the last time statements along that line were said to me either.

I have obnoxious things said to me on occasion. Last week someone asked me what I was doing with my degree and I told them "I'm going to medical school" and they kept on saying: "Oh so when do you start nursing school?" "What kind of nurse do you want to be?"

Nothing against nurses, I think they are great professionals and have a very important job.

It seems like with some people being female and becoming/being a physician does not compute. Hopefully this attitude will die off.
 
I have obnoxious things said to me on occasion. Last week someone asked me what I was doing with my degree and I told them "I'm going to medical school" and they kept on saying: "Oh so when do you start nursing school?" "What kind of nurse do you want to be?"

Nothing against nurses, I think they are great professionals and have a very important job.

It seems like with some people being female and becoming/being a physician does not compute. Hopefully this attitude will die off.

Just walk away and laugh it off, it feels good
 
Just wait. I walk into rooms now and sometimes the patients call me nurse, ask when the doctor will be in, etc. I look at them, smile, and say 'I am your doctor'. Most of the time they are appropriately embarrassed.
 
I have obnoxious things said to me on occasion. Last week someone asked me what I was doing with my degree and I told them "I'm going to medical school" and they kept on saying: "Oh so when do you start nursing school?" "What kind of nurse do you want to be?"

Nothing against nurses, I think they are great professionals and have a very important job.

It seems like with some people being female and becoming/being a physician does not compute. Hopefully this attitude will die off.

It really surprises me how often this happens. I mean, are we still in the 1950 or something.
 
It really surprises me how often this happens. I mean, are we still in the 1950 or something.

Yep, I still get it almost every week. Usually its, "I thought you were going to be a man" when I walk into the clinic room. I generally give the patient the option to reschedule or continue with the appt depending on their comfort. I will not force any patient to be seen by me if that is not their wish.
 
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Yep, I still get it almost every week. Usually its, "I thought you were going to be a man" when I walk into the clinic room. I generally give the patient the option to reschedule or continue with the appt depending on their comfort. I will not force any patient to be seen by me if that is not their wish.

Thats truly ridiculous. Some people......
 
Just wait. I walk into rooms now and sometimes the patients call me nurse, ask when the doctor will be in, etc. I look at them, smile, and say 'I am your doctor'. Most of the time they are appropriately embarrassed.

Wow. This reminds me of that brain teaser from a long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) when I was a kid ...you had to figure out who the doctor was in the scenario and the doctor ends up being woman. It use to stump everyone because everyone associated doctor with male. Crappy that assumption still exists with some people.
 
Just wait. I walk into rooms now and sometimes the patients call me nurse, ask when the doctor will be in, etc. I look at them, smile, and say 'I am your doctor'. Most of the time they are appropriately embarrassed.

Must feel really good to say "I am your doctor".

Thanks for the responses, I don't know that I will ever be prepared for how prejudiced people can be but at least I know that I am not alone. At my work last week I had a situation where this man refused to believe I was in charge. I needed 3 people to tell him that I was in fact the coordinator before he actually believed me and very reluctantly followed my directions.

I always think it has something to do with the way I look or think I am not being assertive enough but I am sure ShyRem and Cabinbuilder aren't the pushover types and if it still happens to you guys...well...it's gonna keep on happening to me.

Like I said, I hope this attitude dies off soon.
 
Since this has turned into a sexist issue, women doing the work of men in the field of medicine, (and I am all for Rosie the Riveter) who fixes dinner for the family???... ala Mitt romney letting his Chief of Staff go home to fix dinner for her family.
 
Alot of you seem to think all of those patients expecting a make doc are sexist or something. I typically expect a female nurse just because in my experience the majority are female. That doesn't mean I have a problem with male nurses.

Same way when I hear the name Charlie. I know girls named Charlie, but will always be a male name to me.

Give those patients a break. Their surprise isn't malicious.

Or you can walk around with a chip on your shoulder forever because "boo hoo my patients thought I'd be a man"

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Must feel really good to say "I am your doctor".

I always think it has something to do with the way I look or think I am not being assertive enough but I am sure ShyRem and Cabinbuilder aren't the pushover types and if it still happens to you guys...well...it's gonna keep on happening to me.

Like I said, I hope this attitude dies off soon.

1. Yes it does feel good.
2. I am so far from being a pushover. I do wear my white coat, especially on locum jobs so there is no question that I am the doctor.
3. I don't think the attitude is going away. It has gotten better over the lasst 20 years. However, you are dealing will people of all ages, races, and faiths and some of those don't view women in the doctor role. I actually had and elderly gentleman in the office tell me he wanted a referral to another family doctor because he wasn't going to let a woman doctor touch him or treat him (he was 92). I don't take it personally, it's a different generation. I filled his meds and gave him a referral.
 
1. Yes it does feel good.
2. I am so far from being a pushover. I do wear my white coat, especially on locum jobs so there is no question that I am the doctor.
3. I don't think the attitude is going away. It has gotten better over the lasst 20 years. However, you are dealing will people of all ages, races, and faiths and some of those don't view women in the doctor role. I actually had and elderly gentleman in the office tell me he wanted a referral to another family doctor because he wasn't going to let a woman doctor touch him or treat him (he was 92). I don't take it personally, it's a different generation. I filled his meds and gave him a referral.

On somewhat of the same issues, do you think women make better nurses?
 
Alot of you seem to think all of those patients expecting a make doc are sexist or something. I typically expect a female nurse just because in my experience the majority are female. That doesn't mean I have a problem with male nurses.

Same way when I hear the name Charlie. I know girls named Charlie, but will always be a male name to me.

Give those patients a break. Their surprise isn't malicious.

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There is a fine line with these things. It extends to all forms of minority populations. People just get pissed about stereotypes. While I can understand the ease by which a patient may make this mistake, I can also understand how it might wear on someone after happening a few times.

But as a rule I tend to respond more strongly to those over reacting to a misconception than those who hold misconceptions

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1. Yes it does feel good.
2. I am so far from being a pushover. I do wear my white coat, especially on locum jobs so there is no question that I am the doctor.
3. I don't think the attitude is going away. It has gotten better over the lasst 20 years. However, you are dealing will people of all ages, races, and faiths and some of those don't view women in the doctor role. I actually had and elderly gentleman in the office tell me he wanted a referral to another family doctor because he wasn't going to let a woman doctor touch him or treat him (he was 92). I don't take it personally, it's a different generation. I filled his meds and gave him a referral.

I wonder if that same man would refuse medical care from a female physician in an emergency situation.... My guess is no lol
 
Alot of you seem to think all of those patients expecting a make doc are sexist or something. I typically expect a female nurse just because in my experience the majority are female. That doesn't mean I have a problem with male nurses.

Same way when I hear the name Charlie. I know girls named Charlie, but will always be a male name to me.

Give those patients a break. Their surprise isn't malicious.

Or you can walk around with a chip on your shoulder forever because "boo hoo my patients thought I'd be a man"

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What a horrible comparison. Proportionally, there are MANY more female doctors than male nurses.
 
What a horrible comparison. Proportionally, there are MANY more female doctors than male nurses.

So the severity of the offense is proportional to the prevalence within a group?

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1. Yes it does feel good.
2. I am so far from being a pushover. I do wear my white coat, especially on locum jobs so there is no question that I am the doctor.
3. I don't think the attitude is going away. It has gotten better over the lasst 20 years. However, you are dealing will people of all ages, races, and faiths and some of those don't view women in the doctor role. I actually had and elderly gentleman in the office tell me he wanted a referral to another family doctor because he wasn't going to let a woman doctor touch him or treat him (he was 92). I don't take it personally, it's a different generation. I filled his meds and gave him a referral.

Thank-you, I am sure this happens to men sometimes as well. I know many women who refuse to have any cervical/breast examination done by male doctors. I think it's understandable, if you feel more comfortable with people of your own gender that's your prerogative and I don't take it personally. Most members of my family (men or women) prefer being seen by females because they think women are better listeners. I know that is a stereotype but it is just what they feel comfortable with. I have no preference, my doc is a male and he is an amazing physician, one of the best listeners I've ever met.
 
So the severity of the offense is proportional to the prevalence within a group?

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What? I didn't say that, I said it's a bad comparison. Nice try though.
 
What? I didn't say that, I said it's a bad comparison. Nice try though.

Things have to be bad comparisons for a reason. Your reason: proportionally more women docs than male nurses (unverified but possible). :shrug: for the sake of argument why does that impact his statement that patients should be given a break for mistakes associated with their experiences?

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Things have to be bad comparisons for a reason. Your reason: proportionally more women docs than male nurses (unverified but possible). :shrug: for the sake of argument why does that impact his statement that patients should be given a break for mistakes associated with their experiences?

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It's a bad comparison because he's unaware of the proportionality of female doctors and male nurses.
 
What? I didn't say that, I said it's a bad comparison. Nice try though.

Everyone that posted about being harassed for being a women in the medical field or confused for a nurse, where do you practice?
 
It's a bad comparison because he's unaware of the proportionality of female doctors and male nurses.

So since the statement was about validating when the offense is warranted, you are in fact stating that validity is correlates with proportionality.

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So since the statement was about validating when the offense is warranted, you are in fact stating that validity is correlates with proportionality.

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I'm stating the the statement about validating the offense is flawed.
 
Everyone that posted about being harassed for being a women in the medical field or confused for a nurse, where do you practice?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. However, I did work on labor and delivery for a year as a male corpsman- basically doing everything the RNs did short of meds. I and the other male corpsman would stay away from doing care to Moms and just stick to babies because it seemed appropriate. The one male nurse on the floor did have problems with patients though and I too was perplexed as to why he wanted to work in L&D.

And on another note a lot of the patients confused me or the other male corpsman for a doctor, but it never happened to the nurses.
 
On somewhat of the same issues, do you think women make better nurses?

I don't think that is fair to say. I have worked with fantastic female and male nurses. I have worked with really crappy female and male nurses. Just like anything, it comes down to that persons personality.

My own husband is a CNA and he probably is the most fantastic caregiver I have ever seen. He has earned employee of the year at three different hospitals in three different states. He jusst loves taking care of patients, giving a good shave, having a clean bed. He is inherently fussy and likes every patient and their room to be spotless. Last time I was in the hospital, my care was so bad, he stayed at the hospital with me so I wouldn't be abandoned down the hall.
 
I'm stating the the statement about validating the offense is flawed.

Are you? MedPR wasn't validating the offense..... he was invalidating it. If his statement is invalid it is because it ignores things about the direction of the assumptions made. It has nothing to do with there being more women docs than male nurses. The point I was making before you opted to treat it like a direct call out rather than a rhetorical question on the subject was that misconceptions do happen and are often the result of the summation of a person's experience. Statistics need not apply. In comparing female doctors to male nurses (two groups of people who go against older established stereotypes) MedPR got this, or at least got lucky.

Calling it out on the basis that there are fewer male nurses directly implies that male nurses do not have a right to be offended for being mistaken as doctors or that, at least in part, a major contributing factor to the "right" or "appropriateness" of female doctors being offended by being mistaken for nurses has to do with their share of the job market pie. Both statements are false. The point is, people need to be careful when rejecting comparisons and metaphors because the rejection of such statements can imply just as much as the statement itself. Quite frankly, there is not another logical rationale for the rejection of his comparison on those terms.

I don't personally agree with MedPR, but I do so on different grounds. His statement ignores positive and negative stereotypes. I would personally rather be confused for something of higher prestige/impact than something of lower, even if both things are technically wrong or prejudiced. Even with that said, I only partially disagree. I think the people complaining that it is unfair to be pigeonholed are often just as guilty of doing so to others, including those they feel victimized by. People need to just understand that people make generalizations based on people's experiences such that people can make sense of the world.

Common denominator? people, not male, female, black, white, green. To worry about the numerical validity of a generalization completely misses the point and inappropriately lends validity to emotional responses
 
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Are you? MedPR wasn't validating the offense..... he was invalidating it. If his statement is invalid it is because it ignores things about the direction of the assumptions made. It has nothing to do with there being more women docs than male nurses. The point I was making before you opted to treat it like a direct call out rather than a rhetorical question on the subject was that misconceptions do happen and are often the result of the summation of a person's experience. Statistics need not apply. In comparing female doctors to male nurses (two groups of people who go against older established stereotypes) MedPR got this, or at least got lucky. Calling it out on the basis that there are fewer male nurses directly implies that male nurses do not have a right to be offended for being mistaken as doctors or that, at least in part, a major contributing factor to the "right" or "appropriateness" of female doctors being offended by being mistaken for nurses has to do with their share of the job market pie. Both statements are false. The point is, people need to be careful when rejecting comparisons and metaphors because the rejection of such statements can imply just as much as the statement itself. Quite frankly, there is not another logical rationale for the rejection of his comparison on those terms. I don't personally agree with MedPR, but I do so on different grounds. His statement ignores positive and negative stereotypes. I would personally rather be confused for something of higher prestige/impact than something of lower, even if both things are technically wrong or prejudiced. Even with that said, I only partially disagree. I think the people complaining that it is unfair to be pigeonholed are often just as guilty of doing so to others, including those they feel victimized by. People need to just understand that people make generalizations based on people's experiences such that people can make sense of the world. Common denominator? people, not male, female, black, white, green. To worry about the numerical validity of a generalization completely misses the point and inappropriately lends validity to emotional responses

I'm not reading all that. Good talk though
 
I have never been accused of not being assertive. :lol:

1. Yes it does feel good.
2. I am so far from being a pushover. I do wear my white coat, especially on locum jobs so there is no question that I am the doctor.
3. I don't think the attitude is going away. It has gotten better over the lasst 20 years. However, you are dealing will people of all ages, races, and faiths and some of those don't view women in the doctor role. I actually had and elderly gentleman in the office tell me he wanted a referral to another family doctor because he wasn't going to let a woman doctor touch him or treat him (he was 92). I don't take it personally, it's a different generation. I filled his meds and gave him a referral.

Which State do you practice in? Rural/Urban/Suburban? Jw, I have never seen that vivid sexism where I live.
 
I don't think that is fair to say. I have worked with fantastic female and male nurses. I have worked with really crappy female and male nurses. Just like anything, it comes down to that persons personality.

My own husband is a CNA and he probably is the most fantastic caregiver I have ever seen. He has earned employee of the year at three different hospitals in three different states. He jusst loves taking care of patients, giving a good shave, having a clean bed. He is inherently fussy and likes every patient and their room to be spotless. Last time I was in the hospital, my care was so bad, he stayed at the hospital with me so I wouldn't be abandoned down the hall.

That's very interesting and good to know that some doctors feel that way, and that men want to be in that caregiver role. It's just one more breaking the mold. I think there should be more men going into Nursing, for one it's a good career and I don't buy into the woman are more nurturing philosophy. Also if patient satisfaction is a goal, some may prefer a male nurse for reasons similar to the ones given here on this thread.
 
I'm not reading all that. Good talk though

$20 says you did and just dont want to respond :shrug:
Please refrain from arbitrary call outs if you are unwilling to actually discuss the rationale for the callout. This forum has enough meaningless pissingmatches, and that is all that honestly happens if you are only going to plug your ears to anything anyone has to say on the subject
 
$20 says you did and just dont want to respond :shrug:
Please refrain from arbitrary call outs if you are unwilling to actually discuss the rationale for the callout. This forum has enough meaningless pissingmatches, and that is all that honestly happens if you are only going to plug your ears to anything anyone has to say on the subject

I didn't...maybe if you would use paragraphs. I wasn't trying to call someone out, just inform. On the same note, I'm not trying to get into one with you; hence me not responding to your arbitrary call outs. For any further issues pertaining to this matter, have your internet lawyer call my internet lawyer. All the best.
 
Some of the best nurses I've had have been men. Many get into nursing as a second career when the company they used to work for either folded or laid folks off. They have enthusiasm and are happy to have a job that is stable. It's nice to have a large man to help with heavy patients or patients who are sedated. It makes a huge difference when I'm 5'4'' and my husband is 6'2''. When I was in residency as chief it was great to have him on the floor to round with me and lift patients for me so I could do skin inspections without having to hunt down the nurse.
 
I didn't...maybe if you would use paragraphs. I wasn't trying to call someone out, just inform. On the same note, I'm not trying to get into one with you; hence me not responding to your arbitrary call outs. For any further issues pertaining to this matter, have your internet lawyer call my internet lawyer. All the best.

:smack:
whatever duder. Tell yourself whatever you wish. I was not fortunate enough to be born with the ability to do that.

Fixed it for you. While the entire thing really was a single paragraph, and ironically also not subject to your rationale for rejection, I actually did intend to discuss that point as it is pertinent to the current tangent. But hey, when you disagree for invalid reasons it is valid and when I disagree for valid reasons it is a callout. Got it :thumbup:
 
Which State do you practice in? Rural/Urban/Suburban? Jw, I have never seen that vivid sexism where I live.

I practice all over. I do mostly rural now. But comments have been made to me throughout my journey so you can't really pinpoint one part of the country. I will say the worst comments made to me were in PA and OR.
 
Some of the best nurses I've had have been men. Many get into nursing as a second career when the company they used to work for either folded or laid folks off. They have enthusiasm and are happy to have a job that is stable. It's nice to have a large man to help with heavy patients or patients who are sedated. It makes a huge difference when I'm 5'4'' and my husband is 6'2''. When I was in residency as chief it was great to have him on the floor to round with me and lift patients for me so I could do skin inspections without having to hunt down the nurse.

That's interesting that you two worked together, what did the patients think about that? Were there inappropriate comments in those instances?
 
What a horrible comparison. Proportionally, there are MANY more female doctors than male nurses.

You missed the part where I said "in my experience". Opinions are formed on experience, not statistics people have never read.

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I practice all over. I do mostly rural now. But comments have been made to me throughout my journey so you can't really pinpoint one part of the country. I will say the worst comments made to me were in PA and OR.

Wow, both are pretty liberal, did not expect that. However, rural areas are much different then major metro area.
 
It's a bad comparison because he's unaware of the proportionality of female doctors and male nurses.

Bro, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. In terms of my opinions and expectations, the statistics are meaningless. What matters is experience.

If a patient is 92 years old and has always had male physicians and female nurses, then their expectation becomes male physician and female nurse. Their surprise at a female physician isn't necessarily due to sexism or discrimination or other inappropriate reason. Even in a world where 99% of physicians are female, if this patient has always had one of those 1% male physicians, he is going to be surprised when a female walks into his room wearing a long white coat.

I can imagine it would be frustrating for that female physician to always get weird looks, but at the same time they went into the profession knowing the stereotypes and knowing that historically it has been a male dominated field. Having a chip on their shoulder isn't helping anyone.
 
Bro, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. In terms of my opinions and expectations, the statistics are meaningless. What matters is experience.

If a patient is 92 years old and has always had male physicians and female nurses, then their expectation becomes male physician and female nurse. Their surprise at a female physician isn't necessarily due to sexism or discrimination or other inappropriate reason. Even in a world where 99% of physicians are female, if this patient has always had one of those 1% male physicians, he is going to be surprised when a female walks into his room wearing a long white coat.

well shucks, if only someone had said that :idea:
 
well shucks, if only someone had said that :idea:

I think he might need to hear it from multiple sources before it clicks. Or maybe we need to send it to his internet lawyer.. I wish I had one of those.
 
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