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??? WW Game Thread - October 2021

Animal Midwife

perpetually confused
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    PMs, melting down brb
      You act like you had no role in the misclearing. BOTH cray and I at some point in time expressed some inkling of doubt towards the "cleared" shorty and you shut it down like we were both wolves on the prowl.
      cubs, you voted me and stayed on me even after I was mechanically seered village. Even post-mortem. That's all I need to see to know what your take of endgame was. You could have voted shorty at any point if you truly believed what you're saying now. I couldn't control your vote no matter what I said so either admit you saw things the same way I did regarding shorty or actually wolf hunt in this game.
       

      cubsrule4e

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        If y'all keep wasting my time making read posts pointing fingers at who is to blame for shorty winning last game (spoiler: shorty is to blame) I am going to blow a gasket

        Its all in the name of meta, no?
         
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        cubsrule4e

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        1. Attending Physician
          cubs, you voted me and stayed on me even after I was mechanically seered village. Even post-mortem. That's all I need to see to know what your take of endgame was. You could have voted shorty at any point if you truly believed what you're saying now. I couldn't control your vote no matter what I said so either admit you saw things the same way I did regarding shorty or actually wolf hunt in this game.
          Youre acting like youre better than me, when we both had no clue, but I at least brought it up at some point. Thats all Im saying.
           
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          cubsrule4e

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            If y'all keep wasting my time making read posts pointing fingers at who is to blame for shorty winning last game (spoiler: shorty is to blame) I am going to blow a gasket

            Youre right, this is going to get into a big discussion that shouldnt happen. Goodnight all.
             
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            Crayola227

            Contrary to rumor I am not Jesus
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            Oct 22, 2013
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              Youre acting like youre better than me, when we both had no clue, but I at least brought it up at some point. Thats all Im saying.
              I'm not even trying to say that any one person is responsible for what happened.

              I am saying, that shutting down discussions about what is possible in WW because "that's not possible," besides it literally just not even being how I've ever really enjoyed this game, well it's about more than what I enjoy. It's valid game strategy to consider all the angles.

              And putting it all together, we've made progress. We think there are two wolves and we should look for w/w interactions even now. AM's point that an original and a convert would be OP is valid, except that village mechanics is one way that gets balanced. So now we even have an idea for when we would look for a convert, as she says, if we have a no kill night, looking for clues in the write ups, and also if the village looks OP itself as we learn about this game set up. If it feels like analyzing like we're dealing with a two person pack is leading to dead ends.

              And fighting about this stuff is instructive.

              I noted last game that Shorty was very active and present *except* in these types of discussions.

              Wolves have to be very careful how they engage in mechanics convos meant to be hunting them down. Many get bored, or don't want to help, or leak signs of TMI, or actively try to shut down the convo, or try to steer things in weird directions.
               
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              Crayola227

              Contrary to rumor I am not Jesus
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                Also, how big was the RWWed speed game? I think I started as a single wolf and then had an early convert for a pack of two (Mayo)...iirc there was similar shock about the pack make up and numbers that game. That was a Kaydubs game as well.

                Not trying to stoke any fevers here people. It's fine if we conclude there's a two person OG pack rn, but excuse me if I want to understand exactly what assumptions we're making to get there, because it is only in so doing that we can also understand when we need to question those assumptions.

                If AM said "an OG and a convert would be OP for a game this size" and then I said "well there are ways to balance for that," and the general response was just "OK, point taken, I still think it makes sense to look for w/w at this time unless we see some mechanics or reasons to question it" well, then I think we would be having a reasonable discussion with point and counterpoint all based on true statements, and it could end there.. Imo that will lead to better conclusions and courses of action.

                And this is why I live to challenge town reads.
                 
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                Crayola227

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                  Cubs sounds fine, Cray sounds fine, Zenge seems sus to me which means he's probably fine.

                  I'm most concerned about sunshine right now I think, the buddy-buddy thing unnerves me.
                  Agreed. And when things get heated and she isn't as present it can really worry me. Maybe she's just tired or busy or doesn't want to put her foot in it. Still.
                   
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                  sunshinefl

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                    I didn’t have an issue with the interaction, I wanted to understand why genny felt that AM was seeing genny as a wolf. I still don’t see AM’s posts as calling genny wolfy, but my understanding from genny’s reply is that she just wanted to see how AM would react and she figured AM was reading her wolfy because AM usually does.
                    I didn’t even care or honestly follow what you were doing now or then. I just saw AM being very twisty with Genny.
                    If y'all keep wasting my time making me read posts pointing fingers at who is to blame for shorty winning last game (spoiler: shorty is to blame) I am going to blow a gasket
                    Exactly. Imagine how much my eyes glazed over at all that blah blah since I wasn’t even in that game.
                    Agreed. And when things get heated and she isn't as present it can really worry me. Maybe she's just tired or busy or doesn't want to put her foot in it. Still.
                    Am I the “she” in this post?

                    1. I wasn’t even on here. I’m out of state on vacation/with family for a family wedding. I’m now back at my hotel room and caught up.

                    2. You guys were getting heated about the last game which I was neither in nor read. So I could not care less.

                    3. I have commented my stance on multiple other things that have happened on thread that aren’t the stupid last game debates.
                     

                    WildZoo

                    Illegal in all 50, Unyeetable Wolf
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                      ? Day 1 ? Vote Tally

                      genny (2) - DubZ, AM
                      DubZ ()
                      Chaos ()
                      sunshine ()
                      AM (2) - genny, sunshine
                      Cray (1) - Chaos

                      5/9

                      Missing: less than half

                      Vote closes at 10pm, TODAY, Oct. 14th (~17.25 hours)
                      Oh I'm on cubs. Sorry I didn't notice that earlier, morning brain.
                       
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                      cubsrule4e

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                        No, actually, you butted into a conversation about balance to talk about last game. So it has nothing to do with this until you made it so.
                        I apologize, just needed to mentally reset. Will get back on track now.
                         
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                        Viscernable

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                      • Jun 13, 2020
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                          And it doesn't matter if you're talking specifically about clearing or about balance. Not my point. What is the same, is you trying to say "well this wouldn't be possible" without actually considering how it might be. Major peeve of mine and not one I'm going to be able to overlook in the aftermath of last game.
                          I think now is the point that we should all ask ourselves if this is still about how strongly we should be suspecting a convert/other unexpected mechanics in this game before this conversation risks spiralling into the same arguments these threads have over and over
                           
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                          Viscernable

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                            Cubs sounds fine, Cray sounds fine, Zenge seems sus to me which means he's probably fine.

                            I'm most concerned about sunshine right now I think, the buddy-buddy thing unnerves me.
                            What your method for reading cubs early (if it’s something that can be articulated)? Early-game cubs is a mystery to me
                             
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                            Viscernable

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                              Dubz felt almost too chill and agreeable with everyone, set off a sort of velvet-glove-iron-paw alarm for me, but considering it’s Dubz I doubt she’d be taking such a “make no waves or enemies” approach to wolfing even D1 like I might expect from less powerwolfy wolves. So Dubz feels good so far. AM also feels fine. Neutral to need-to-hear-more-from (cubs, sunny)/not-at-all-confident-I-can-ever-read (genny, chaos) on everyone else so far. Z is the closest to a wolf read. His long post on me felt uncomfortably pockety and like trying to conspicuously demonstrate “look I am being pro-village as hell making long analyses straight out the gate” when there wasn’t really that much to analyze - could have been a few sentences and conveyed the same meaning. Wanted to wait and see how he followed it up and I haven’t seen anything to make me feel like he’s village since.

                              Vote Z
                               
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                              Zenge142

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                                Dubz felt almost too chill and agreeable with everyone, set off a sort of velvet-glove-iron-paw alarm for me, but considering it’s Dubz I doubt she’d be taking such a “make no waves or enemies” approach to wolfing even D1 like I might expect from less powerwolfy wolves. So Dubz feels good so far. AM also feels fine. Neutral to need-to-hear-more-from (cubs, sunny)/not-at-all-confident-I-can-ever-read (genny, chaos) on everyone else so far. Z is the closest to a wolf read. His long post on me felt uncomfortably pockety and like trying to conspicuously demonstrate “look I am being pro-village as hell making long analyses straight out the gate” when there wasn’t really that much to analyze - could have been a few sentences and conveyed the same meaning. Wanted to wait and see how he followed it up and I haven’t seen anything to make me feel like he’s village since.

                                Vote Z
                                Viscernable!

                                Not sure how my analysis was “pockety”… :thinking:

                                I’m trying to narrow down the POE, and I your linguistic choice stuck out to me, so I figured I’d get my thought process on the matter out there.
                                 

                                Zenge142

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                              • Jan 26, 2021
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                                  I dunno, Zenge142, it just felt a bit illegal. Are you wolfing?
                                  Illegal? You said I could have communicated it in a few sentences but I don’t think I could have. I think trying to summarize it without walking through my thought process to arrive at the conclusion I did, would have left people perplexed and with questions.

                                  I feel like you’re attacking me for being verbose which seems counter productive to village’s goals. Certainly the more we can get insight into each individual’s thought process and how and why they’re arriving at the conclusions they are, the more easily we can solve the game. Wouldn’t you agree?
                                   
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                                  cubsrule4e

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                                • Nov 24, 2004
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                                  1. Attending Physician
                                    genny has made me laugh 5 times so I can't vote for her rn


                                    unvote genny vote cubs

                                    For complaining about a measly 2 pages when we're 12 hours into the day, smh

                                    When on the phone the pages just seem longer to get through.
                                     
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                                    genny

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                                      Dubz felt almost too chill and agreeable with everyone, set off a sort of velvet-glove-iron-paw alarm for me, but considering it’s Dubz I doubt she’d be taking such a “make no waves or enemies” approach to wolfing even D1 like I might expect from less powerwolfy wolves. So Dubz feels good so far. AM also feels fine. Neutral to need-to-hear-more-from (cubs, sunny)/not-at-all-confident-I-can-ever-read (genny, chaos) on everyone else so far. Z is the closest to a wolf read. His long post on me felt uncomfortably pockety and like trying to conspicuously demonstrate “look I am being pro-village as hell making long analyses straight out the gate” when there wasn’t really that much to analyze - could have been a few sentences and conveyed the same meaning. Wanted to wait and see how he followed it up and I haven’t seen anything to make me feel like he’s village since.

                                      Vote Z
                                      Dubz hedge is thicc
                                       
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                                      Viscernable

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                                        Illegal? You said I could have communicated it in a few sentences but I don’t think I could have. I think trying to summarize it without walking through my thought process to arrive at the conclusion I did, would have left people perplexed and with questions.

                                        I feel like you’re attacking me for being verbose which seems counter productive to village’s goals. Certainly the more we can get insight into each individual’s thought process and how and why they’re arriving at the conclusions they are, the more easily we can solve the game. Wouldn’t you agree?
                                        I agree broadly; discussion and insight into thought processes is what we need. But sometimes verbosity doesn’t offer more insight, it’s just ticking a “yep, pro-village long analysis here” box or getting distracting with excessive detail. See: my long, long posts in basics.
                                         
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                                        WildZoo

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                                          I'll look more in depth at Vissy's post on Z in a bit, but overall I don't think that wording post is one that he makes as a wolf, it seems more like the kind of "stretchy" post that sets people off when he's village. I'd also say his engagement with the thread is more in line with his village day one behavior than what I have seen from him as a wolf, particularly in responding to Vissy's read.
                                           
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