Yale... post interview thoughts

[They call me]

Please add to list of pos/neg

Thought they had overall strong path program. Residents were probably a little overworked but only found one student that wanted to drop out of program.

neg: weak neruopath, long hours,....

pos: name, strong in BOTH ap & cp (completely separate programs 2yrAP then 2yrCP), research opps (well not first 2 years), compensation high and good benefits

+/-: new england, nice facilities (little tight in areas, but there expanding), have lost approx one res/yr secondary to (health/family/personality).

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[King Arthur]

Actually, i find it fairly disconcerting that they lose 1 res per year and you found one who wanted to drop on your interview day. path programs are small, this is not like an IM program or gen surg program losing 1 res/year.

 

[Trenchcoat]

In addition to the above...

+ Really nice autopsy suite with great staff. Amazing choice of food items from the local vendors. Amazing library. Subsidized parking. Access to the Yale undergrad facilities. Great private bus system. Dr. Gill for forensic pathology!

- There is a palpable CP bent. While the program is strong all around, the CP training seems to overshadow AP. There will probably be massive renovations going on around the time PGY1s start next year.

It was also cool to meet They call me and PathSoccerDude

 

[LADoc00]

they literally lose 1 resident a year?

Wierd. To what exactly?

 

[cyld]

"lost approx one res/yr secondary to (health/family/personality). " that's not a lot for a big program.

what do you think of losing 4 resident within 8 month for a small program?

 

[Gene_]

"lost approx one res/yr secondary to (health/family/personality). " that's not a lot for a big program.

what do you think of losing 4 resident within 8 month for a small program?

That is a lot. And why do all your posts sound similar? "What do you think of...[insert something random]."

 

[cyld]

Gene_,

good catch. i am impressed. (what follows "what do you think of" is what i witnessed.)

 

[Prairie]

We lost one person last year due to health problems. The person who left this year switched from a different field and decided it wasn't the right move and didn't want to be away from their family. Neither are still in medicine - they didn't go to a different program or anything.

 

[LADoc00]

Everyone should train at MGH or Stanford or UCSF then do dermpath.

or BWH. But you have the general idea, yes. I see at least one person is listening.

 

[mlw03]

or BWH. But you have the general idea, yes. I see at least one person is listening.

don't forget they should also roll around in a big pile of money. kinda like that episode of southpark where cartman wins $20 from stan and then converts it to coins so he can roll around naked in it.

i didn't apply to yale, so this doesn't affect me, but i too would be concerned by 1 resident leaving per year, even with the reasons given. and a current resident who said they wanted to drop out would be a big red flag for me also. if 1 is willing to say it, it makes me wonder what the others may be thinking.

 

[mlw03]

They are thinking my nads really sting but this place rocks.

I'm sure you not applying to Yale will be a massive loss to their application pool.

??? i'm not sure what the above really means, but i certainly don't consider myself some wonderful resident-to-be such that any program i don't apply will be losing out. so i don't know what i've ever said to warrant the above comment.

 

[mlw03]

Your stats (link in your signature) looked pretty amazing. Not sarcastic. Pretty top notch 1st tier stuff (if this is you). http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=1334

yeah, that's me. i thought you were being sarcastic, so my apologizes.

 

[docbiohazard]

I didn't apply to Yale. Had to draw the line somewhere, and New Haven didn't have good job opportunities for my spouse...

I agree - that kind of attrition rate is frightening + the one person who wants to leave and vocalizes that to interviewees...

BH

 

[sleeping beauty]

ppl in new england are nice?

 

[Neddy]

ppl in new england are nice?

Um... kind of a random post, but yeah, we try to be. There seems to be more bashing of New Englanders by people from other parts of the country on this forum than vice versa, for what that's worth.

Also for my 2 cents now that this thread has been resurrected, I think Yale is getting an unjustified bad rap here. Most of the Yale path residents I spent time with on my 1 1/2 rotations there were all-around awesome people who were very happy with their program. Even the native New Englanders .

 

[b&ierstiefel]

ppl in new england are nice?

Depends on where you're coming from. I have experience living in the South (not the deep south though) and the midwest...people in the midwest especially were more laid back than the New Englanders here. I've come to get used to it though and adapted to the New England personalities here. New England, especially Boston, tends to be a little more "high octane" than other parts of the country. Ambitious people fit here quite nicely.

 

[HCE]

As someone who grew up in New England and has also lived in the Midwest, I agree with the "high octane" characterization....I attribute it almost exclusively to Dunkin Donuts...

Depends on where you're coming from. I have experience living in the South (not the deep south though) and the midwest...people in the midwest especially were more laid back than the New Englanders here. I've come to get used to it though and adapted to the New England personalities here. New England, especially Boston, tends to be a little more "high octane" than other parts of the country. Ambitious people fit here quite nicely.

 

[gbwillner]

Also for my 2 cents now that this thread has been resurrected, I think Yale is getting an unjustified bad rap here.

Agreed. I found the Yale program to be strong in both AP and CP, and the residents were as happy as any major program. Overall I was very impressed with the program and found it to be as good as any other. There are great research opportunities, and the residents exiting the program go on to excellent careers.

In general, I think the top programs all have very intersive AP with long hours and weekends. THere are always those applicants who are misinformed and want to have a top-notch AP experience but a 9-5 residency. They are in for a rude awakening when the start, and may decide that they have made a huge mistake. I don't know about the particulars of the individual who left Yale this past year, and it may or may not related to this. My point is, it doesn't matter if it's Yale, MHG, BWH, Penn, Hopkins, WashU, etc., if you go there expecting an easy path life you're going to be miserable.

 

[raspberry009]

if you go there expecting an easy path life you're going to be miserable.

With this being said, I have to ask how will this change with the dramatic increase with women going into pathology? People who might want part time jobs? or are we just going to expect all women to hire nannies rather than give them an option to raise their children and work part time? The class of 2008 is the first class to ever have more women than men graduating. I'm very sure that this is going to have an impact on residency as well as the faculty positions out there... or at least I hope so. I would prefer the raise my kids than trust a stranger to do it. I also believe that I'm bright and intelligent person with a lot to offer the medical field. So if I take a few years off to raise kids, should I just I just kiss my medical career goodbye? I know that a lot of women out there have the same feelings as I do and don't voice the need for this flexibility because they don't want to appear weak (I also fit this category). But honestly, what's going to happen with the future of medicine in this regard??

 

[gbwillner]

With this being said, I have to ask how will this change with the dramatic increase with women going into pathology? People who might want part time jobs? or are we just going to expect all women to hire nannies rather than give them an option to raise their children and work part time? The class of 2008 is the first class to ever have more women than men graduating. I'm very sure that this is going to have an impact on residency as well as the faculty positions out there... or at least I hope so. I would prefer the raise my kids than trust a stranger to do it. I also believe that I'm bright and intelligent person with a lot to offer the medical field. So if I take a few years off to raise kids, should I just I just kiss my medical career goodbye? I know that a lot of women out there have the same feelings as I do and don't voice the need for this flexibility because they don't want to appear weak (I also fit this category). But honestly, what's going to happen with the future of medicine in this regard??

There are plenty of easy pathology residency programs with 9-5 hours. Yale is not one of them. Point is, if you want to work "part-time" in pathology you have no business going to Yale (or MGH or Hopkins or WashU, etc.). Why bust your butt anyway? What will it give you that you can't get at another place, if you plan a part-time type of career in private practice?

 

[raspberry009]

There are plenty of easy pathology residency programs with 9-5 hours. Yale is not one of them. Point is, if you want to work "part-time" in pathology you have no business going to Yale (or MGH or Hopkins or WashU, etc.). Why bust your butt anyway? What will it give you that you can't get at another place, if you plan a part-time type of career in private practice?

I strongly disagree with you.

I believe it is possible to be a smart person and be in a part time job and be able to contribute to the field of pathology in acedemics. Why not be able to go to a high powered institution if your eager to learn and work hard to learn the material. For example, at my Harvard interview I asked what their maternity leave policy was and people looked at me like I was insane, which was my que to drop the subject. If you're going to have this stance then you should demand that all women be on birth control (which still isn't a guarantee) to be in your program or be a guy.

The reason why I think that large programs should look into this possibility is because there are very smart intelligent hard working genious mothers out there that are quite able to be the best pathologists we have ever seen. And why not have part time positions out there for a decreased pay? That is not to say that they won't put in 100% while they're at work because they love what they do and want to make a difference. And with over 50% of our graduating class as women I'm sure there are several mothers that could give any man a run for their money intellectually. For any institution to automatically overlook this possibility is a loss on their part. I'm sure there are cheap and easy ways to accommodate these individuals... the only problem is that there needs to be a willingness for change.

 

[gbwillner]

I strongly disagree with you.

I believe it is possible to be a smart person and be in a part time job and be able to contribute to the field of pathology in acedemics. Why not be able to go to a high powered institution if your eager to learn and work hard to learn the material. For example, at my Harvard interview I asked what their maternity leave policy was and people looked at me like I was insane, which was my que to drop the subject. If you're going to have this stance then you should demand that all women be on birth control (which still isn't a guarantee) to be in your program or be a guy.

The reason why I think that large programs should look into this possibility is because there are very smart intelligent hard working genious mothers out there that are quite able to be the best pathologists we have ever seen. And why not have part time positions out there for a decreased pay? That is not to say that they won't put in 100% while they're at work because they love what they do and want to make a difference. And with over 50% of our graduating class as women I'm sure there are several mothers that could give any man a run for their money intellectually. For any institution to automatically overlook this possibility is a loss on their part. I'm sure there are cheap and easy ways to accommodate these individuals... the only problem is that there needs to be a willingness for change.

I think it is definitely possible for women who are brilliant to work part time and contribute significantly to the field. However, institutions have their own ideas as to what the look for in applicants. If you pitch them the "part-time" business during your interview I am not surprised if they looked at you like you were crazy. Why would they want someone who is only partially committed when they could have someone who is wholly committed?

AS far as part-time positions for decreased pay, those positions exist once you finish your training. But they are not there to please your interests- you have to consider that most places would prefer to hire full-time staff.

You may be right, that programs may have to make life easier for residents because of changing applicant pools, to attract the best applicants. However, right now I don't think top programs are in danger of not getting top applicants because of their long hours. This is probably especially true today, when applicant numbers have doubled over the past three years. If you are brilliant, some program out there will accommodate you. However, Harvard etc. can get people who are brilliant AND work full-time (or at least plant to- I'm sure all programs have a decent maternity leave).

 

[raspberry009]

I would never tell anyone on an interview these ideas...I hope to remain anonymous. Just like you would probably like to remain anonymous with all the assumptions you make about other people on this forum. I'm hoping to match at a high powered institution and who knows we might be stuck working on a bench at Yale side by side and neither of us will ever put two and two together. These are hypothetical questions, and yes, I'm probably going to fall into line to do whatever I can just to put a name on my CV, so that later, one day, I can be the one to call the shots.

 

[gbwillner]

These are hypothetical questions, and yes, I'm probably going to fall into line to do whatever I can just to put a name on my CV, so that later, one day, I can be the one to call the shots.

That sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[malchik]

I would never tell anyone on an interview these ideas...I hope to remain anonymous. Just like you would probably like to remain anonymous with all the assumptions you make about other people on this forum. I'm hoping to match at a high powered institution and who knows we might be stuck working on a bench at Yale side by side and neither of us will ever put two and two together. These are hypothetical questions, and yes, I'm probably going to fall into line to do whatever I can just to put a name on my CV, so that later, one day, I can be the one to call the shots.

Sounds like you're less interested in "contributing to the field of pathology" and more interested in proving something.

 

[HCE]

I would never tell anyone on an interview these ideas...I hope to remain anonymous. Just like you would probably like to remain anonymous with all the assumptions you make about other people on this forum. I'm hoping to match at a high powered institution and who knows we might be stuck working on a bench at Yale side by side and neither of us will ever put two and two together. These are hypothetical questions, and yes, I'm probably going to fall into line to do whatever I can just to put a name on my CV, so that later, one day, I can be the one to call the shots.

Some programs in some fields must be okay with Job Sharing, since FREIDA includes it as an option:

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Employment policies and benefits.

[SIZE=-1]No[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Part-time/shared positions [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Yes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]On-site child care[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]No[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Subsidized child care[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Yes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Allowance/stipend for professional expenses[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Yes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Leave for educational meetings/conferences[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]No[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Moving allowance[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]No[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Housing stipend[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Yes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]On-call meal allowance[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Yes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Free parking[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]No[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]PDAs[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]No[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Placement assistance upon completion of program[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Yes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Cross coverage in case of illness/disability[/SIZE]

 

[docbiohazard]

I think it is definitely possible for women who are brilliant to work part time and contribute significantly to the field. However, institutions have their own ideas as to what the look for in applicants. If you pitch them the "part-time" business during your interview I am not surprised if they looked at you like you were crazy. Why would they want someone who is only partially committed when they could have someone who is wholly committed?

Well, I don't think it's an issue of commitment so much as "yield". The top academic programs can only train so many pathologists. I'm getting the feeling they aim for those pathologists, in large part, to be leaders in their fields, etc. If you're interested in working part-time straight out of residency, then you're probably talking about private practice - to the best of my knowledge those sorts of academic jobs don't exist, at least not for new hires.

In any case, whatever you do, if you're doing it part time, in theory you're only doing half as much as an equally talented, focused and inclined person could be doing if they were doing it full time. However, the program has invested a full training in you just as they would anyone else.

BH

 

[nycsicko]

I'd say its a top 15 program - I doubt you'd get much better clinical training elsewhere. Probably plenty of research there also. My only issue was that the Chair was a little strange when he came in for the big group meet and greet but every other person was amazing.

 

[trent05]

Actually the chair is an incredibly brilliant man. He was groomed by Dr. Vincent Marchesi (another genius). He is one of the rare few physician scientists that can think as well as speak in high level mathematics. He is on a whole different level. He is also quite personable and a decent person. Most other pathologists are plumbers at best in comparison (not that there is anything wrong with that). (Plumbers being biochemists while other physician scientists have gone far beyond physical chemistry as well as excruciatingly difficult mathematics and physics.) Your rating of top 15 or top 25 is rather meaningless. These numbers are practically worthless. I am not sure why people insist on ranking programs like football teams. It is very difficult to gauge the actual numeric worth of program because there are so many biases. There are many levels research, history, legacy, physical plant, brand name, faculty, cancer center... Your opinion of any of these programs is nothing more than your biased opinion. Based on an interview day and other opinions.

I think he meant top 15 as a compliment

 

[gbwillner]

I'd say its a top 15 program - I doubt you'd get much better clinical training elsewhere. Probably plenty of research there also. My only issue was that the Chair was a little strange when he came in for the big group meet and greet but every other person was amazing.

I agree that this is arbitrary, but it does have some significance, as long as you state what your priorites are...

I'm curious as to what the other 14 top programs are for you, and what you consider important... is it mostly by reputation?

 

[yaah]

The problem with any rankings is that they are subjective. And so one person will give a ranking, and leave out a couple of important programs (for whatever reason, it could be spite, it could be a personal bad experience, it could be someone else's bad experience) while leaving in a couple that they are biased in the other way towards. And then someone complains "What about program X? They have y and z and blah blah," and someone else pipes in too, it's silly.

Most people could probably list about 25-30 programs that are in their top 15. People in medical fields obsess too much about rankings when they don't really mean diddly poo.

And yes, there are all different kinds of smarts. People who excel in math and physical chemistry sometimes are completely clueless when it comes to biological sciences or another field. Sometimes they are not. It varies.

 

[nycsicko]

Dude relax and READ. I definitely meant it as a compliment. I'm just saying if you think of all the amazing programs in the country Yale is just as good a training program. I didn't say it was 15. I'm saying if asked to name the 15 best programs for clinical training (which is the whole point of residency) most would include Yale somewhere in there. If you would rather say its in the top 25 thats your right but if you are saying there are more than 20 programs around that give better training overall, I think you are wrong. The training there is among the best. I also think the Chair is brilliant, he's still a little strange. Get over it! Geeze!

 

[nycsicko]

I see. So I am wrong if i have a critcism. I am wrong if I have a praise. I am wrong if I express any opinion? I know the 'dude' too and hes still "a little weird" waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh waaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh...he said in his opinion that someone was a little weird waaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. How many other GD ways can I say that Yale is an awesome program.

i dont even know what specific 'personalities' you are talking about. I want YOU to stop writing because YOU don't know what YOU are talking about Matteeeee

 

[yaah]

OK, I think that about wraps up that tangent. I think we all get the point that both of you are making.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I think we all get the point that both of you are making.

I have no idea what's going on in this thread.

 

[HCE]

so, how about those Elis?