King2440

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Not that I don’t want to hear it. It’s just that I believe y’all Exaggerate a bit.

Even you saying pharmacy hasn’t evolved is not true because in some states like Idaho pharmacist are able to prescribe some drugs. More states are giving pharmacists provider status and the scope of practice is expanding.

So yes I think a lot of y’all are miserable and taking your misery out on students. There are shortages in some rural underserved areas you just have to be willing to move.

Constantly posting about how much pharmacy is a dead end job is tiring and frankly not true.
Is that what they are feeding you in school? Those “undeserved” areas are getting saturated now.

Also, you spoke of market correction - how long do you think that will take?

I think the main reason people are upset is that we were promised great job stability. Now with so much supply, we are just a cog to corporations. The reason why many many pharmacists are having to seek alternative careers.

Don’t be naive and think this is all made up.
 
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Jacquejam1234

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(Posting the following as a Pre-Pharm starting school in August, not as a moderator)

There are so many threads in the Pre-Pharmacy section regarding all the reasons people should not be going into Pharmacy. I was going to link them, but then this post would be really long.

There are many of us Pre-Pharmacy students on the boards, much to the frustration of those who have come before us.

Yes, Pharmacy is an over-crowded field. I don't know that anyone is truly disputing that fact. But hear me out, there will always be a need for students coming up behind those already in the field in order to replace those that retire, move on, etc. The real issue isn't that there are Pharmacy Students, but how many of them.

I want to offer up a discussion point for you all.

There are 2 primary groups of Pharmacy Students: Those on SDN and those that are not.

Instead of being the doom/gloom to those students you have access to on these boards, why aren't there more posts helping students become the best Pharmacists that they can be in order to mold and shape those you want to be in the field. There are opportunities to network, to share the knowledge of the Collective, to provide real world advice, to offer help navigating the process, etc...

All the non-SDN pharmacy students out there would be missing out on this information and would be at a disadvantage from an information perspective.

If knowledge is power, why aren't we using the power better?
Lmao pharmacy is such a joke. It’s only going to get worse as well. Most of the people on this thread have a high rate of cognitive dissonance. You know deep down pharmacy is a crap profession get out while you can. Anybody thinking about going to pharm school these days is insane.
 

Xenophylia

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Apr 18, 2018
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Isn't it funny- all of the practicing pharmacists here have the same sorts of opinions. The only ones spouting rainbows and unicorns are the prepharm snowflakes (and, of course, the pharmacy schools...).
 
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So what is the point of a pharmacy career then? Why the heck to they train pharmacist in rigorous doctoral programs and pay them six figures if a chimp can do that job? I’m literally curious about this.
You’re exaggerating how ‘rigorous’ a PharmD program really is. For a doctoral degree it is nowhere near as rigorous compared to an MD.

But to your other question, yes even a chimp can do the job (I’m talking about retail where >70% of pharmacists work). The ONLY reason why retail pharmacists even make six figures is because they are needed for LEGAL reasons set by the state such as having a PIC for each pharmacy, needing a pharmacist to do the final check/verification, having someone in the store to do give flu shots etc, and historically (I’m talking 1.5-2 decades ago) there had been a true shortage of pharmacists— not because work couldn’t get done because there were no pharmacists, but because your pharmacy legally cannot be open if you don’t have a pharmacist.

But times have changed and as you know, advancements in technology (telepharmacy, health kiosks, robotic pill counters/IV-making machines, growth of mail order pharmacy) and changes in the law (higher number of tech: pharmacist ratios, expanded scope of practice of pharmacy technicians, tech-check-tech, etc.) have made it such that it is now MUCH EASIER to get rid of pharmacists because retail pharmacists have not historically been providing cognitive services to begin with and therefore this is a huge opportunity to cut labor costs.

The bottom line is that the retail profit/business model is about the number of scripts filled (because that’s how you make money in retail), so why the heck should corporations pay you six figures if they aren’t desperate for warm bodies to satisfy legal requirements anymore given this saturated market?

Contrast that to the “clinical pharmacy” business model which is about cost-savings/cost-aversion because pharmacists can’t bill, but moreso than that even if they can bill they’d be billing at probably a mid-level practitioner level and not a physician level so their six-figure salaries are also not justified. The result? Lot of featherbedding and encroachment on other HCPs’ turf because “pharmacists are the drug experts” *pounds chest*. MTM, med rec, refill concierge, dealing with insurance issues/prior authorizations, behavorial/lifestyle change counseling sessions (for clinical specialists in diabetes, for example) are all services that non-pharmacists can do without “pharmacist training” so I have yet to be convinced that clinical pharmacists bring any value either. And before the pundits come to defend their beloved “clinical pharmacy” jobs, ask yourself this question: what value do you provide if the physicians you’re working with have drug info apps like Lexicomp downloaded on their phones?
 

Xenophylia

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9 times out of 10 the "clinical pharmacists" respond to a question by looking up the info on the same app to simply regurgitate the info to the physician. Why not just cut out the middleman and save $$$?
 

Timbo

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See when y’all say salaries will drop to 50k that’s when I know y’all are exaggerating. Saturation doesn’t last forever. Some students will decide against going to Pharm school up until there is a shortage or a level market again. The market corrects itself. Pharm schools would lose applicants if the career salary goes down to 50k creating another shortage.
Yes saturation doesn't last forever, but how long do you think until the market self corrects? The current P4 I precept for still hasn't gotten a job offer despite having worked for his chain for years and he's graduating in less than a month. In fact his chain hasn't offered any positions to any of their interns yet this year. This is unprecedented as in the past year everybody got job offers by now. Still class sizes haven't decreased yet from what I've seen. 2016-17 had a record high number of new pharmDs and it's showing no signs of slowing down. Schools are already losing applicants by the way and have been for the past few years. Their solution however is not to reduce class size but to lower admission standards.
I used to make $120k at 40 hours a week. Now it's barely above $100k at 36 hours. Accounting for the $3000 I pay monthly for my loans, that brings it down to like $64k per year. Now can you see how a new grad whose wage is in the low 50s/hr and who can only get 32 hours per week can have his salary drop down to the 50k's when you account for loans?
No comment? Many people aren't thinking about how much debt they graduate with. Then they just Google pharmacist salary which still says 120k even though that is no longer the reality for many new grads.
This is basic economics. The state of pharmacy is not going to seem attractive to students who just want money. Enrollment is dropping and more students are headed to underserved areas. There will be jobs for you if you don’t mind going to them.

The market is not irrational, it is very common to go from a shortage to equilibrium and then surplus. The surplus drives away potential students creating a shortage or equilibrium.

Couple that with retiring baby boomers.

Y’all just seem like bitter pharmacists that hate their jobs.

The dental section was complaining about saturation in major cities also. News flash, everyone flocks to major metropolitan areas so getting jobs there are difficult for everyone.
If I hated my job I would be embracing my reduced hours. The current P4s I work with who still don't have any job offers should be ecstatic right? I wonder what their deal is? BTW one of them is even applying to places Alaska lol.

Question to you... Would you ever accept a pharmacist position for $45/hr 32 hrs/week? If you were someone who isn't in it for the money, I don't think you should. You should stand up for what the profession is worth
 

megj

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No comment? Many people aren't thinking about how much debt they graduate with. Then they just Google pharmacist salary which still says 120k even though that is no longer the reality for many new grads.

If I hated my job I would be embracing my reduced hours. The current P4s I work with who still don't have any job offers should be ecstatic right? I wonder what their deal is? BTW one of them is even applying to places Alaska lol.

Question to you... Would you ever accept a pharmacist position for $45/hr 32 hrs/week? If you were someone who isn't in it for the money, I don't think you should. You should stand up for what the profession is worth
I do love the profession and I am planning on working in rural areas or joining the Public Health Service because I believe pharmacist are needed in those areas. I also feel as though with all the stuff we learn in pharm school the scope of our practice needs to be increased. Some folks not have any other choice but to take that salary and those areas if we are accounting for supply and demand. If you want to work in a large metropolitan area than you have to take the good with the bad.
 

megj

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I have a plan I’m not going in blindly. I served in the Navy for 4 years so I have no undergrad debt. I have the option of various commissioning programs along with the Public Health Service. I went back and forth between dental school med school and pharm school for 3 years weighing the pros and cons of each. Some of us aren’t just going in blindly without a plan.
 

stoichiometrist

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Isn't it funny- all of the practicing pharmacists here have the same sorts of opinions. The only ones spouting rainbows and unicorns are the prepharm snowflakes (and, of course, the pharmacy schools...).
Which is why we hold so much contempt for pre-pharms for being starry-eyed and optimistic. They are parroting the very same garbage that we were sold when we were in school.
 

BC_89

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I have a plan I’m not going in blindly. I served in the Navy for 4 years so I have no undergrad debt. I have the option of various commissioning programs along with the Public Health Service. I went back and forth between dental school med school and pharm school for 3 years weighing the pros and cons of each. Some of us aren’t just going in blindly without a plan.
Did you utilize your Gi Bill in undergrad? Of all the branches, the navy has a very interesting role when it comes to commissioning as a pharmacist. It may have changed since I started my enlistment some years ago (army), but I remember that the Navy would accommodate enlisted individuals while in school. For example, if an E-4 was still on active duty and was accepted to pharmacy school (and a slot is needed), the Navy would pay the individual as if they were still on active duty on the enlisted side. Its not the HPSP or HCSP, but your paid as if you report to your unit without dipping into your educational entitlements (ie post 9-11 or Montgomery gi bill). Upon licensure, your automatically paid as an O3E with 8 years of prior service on the pay-charts (even if your in the Inactive Ready Reserve the pay scale is still the same).

Not wanting to further derail this thread so go to the Veterans Benefits site on my signature and you may find some other avenues to get ahead financially if the VA or military service is still in your interest as a prior service member (along with IHS with the possibility of getting a higher PTO than others).
 
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megj

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Which is why we hold so much contempt for pre-pharms for being starry-eyed and optimistic. They are parroting the very same garbage that we were sold when we were in school.
And that’s why we prepharms hold so much contempt for y’all. A lot of us are not in your same circumstances. A lot of already did our research before getting into this career. Some of us don’t have undergrad loans to pay off and don’t mind going to a rural area because we actually like the career.

If you didn’t do your own research before starting school on job market and the future then that is your own mistake. I wouldn’t advise anyone to get in a career and not do their own research.
 

megj

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Did you utilize your Gi Bill in undergrad? Of all the branches, the navy has a very interesting role when it comes to commissioning as a pharmacist. It may have changed since I started my enlistment some years ago (army), but I remember that the Navy would accommodate enlisted individuals while in school. For example, if an E-4 was still on active duty and was accepted to pharmacy school (and a slot is needed), the Navy would pay the individual as if they were still on active duty on the enlisted side. Its not the HPSP or HCSP, but your paid as if you report to your unit without dipping into your educational entitlements (ie post 9-11 or Montgomery gi bill). Upon licensure, your automatically paid as an O3E with 8 years of prior service on the pay-charts (even if your in the Inactive Ready Reserve the pay scale is still the same).

Not wanting to further derail this thread so go to the Veterans Benefits site on my signature and you may find some other avenues to get ahead financially if the VA or military service is still in your interest as a prior service member (along with IHS with the possibility of getting a higher PTO than others).
Yes the Navy still does have programs like that but for me I figured it would be easier to separate and then use my Post 911 gi bill. Like I said above I had to do a lot of self reflection to see what career I wanted to pursue, medicine ,dentistry, or pharmacy ( I was a hospital Corpsman).
I knew about the saturation since 2012, so that was taken into account when I made my career decision.

I was offered admission to UHCOP and I start P1 In the summer. Traditionally the Navy usually only has 4 spots nation wide for HSCP pharmacist students so you really have to make yourself stand out. The Public Health Service offers many slots and are in need of pharmacists.

The government also recently added 9 additional months to the post 911, 36 month cap for STEM students so I’m also going to see if I qualify for those additional months seeing as how I’m a STEM student. Thanks for the info though.

Also it’s nice that you don’t want to derail this thread. Sadly other people didn’t give the same consideration to the class of 2023 UHCOP thread and continued to detail it with anti-pharmacy rhetoric.
 
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Xenophylia

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Which is why we hold so much contempt for pre-pharms for being starry-eyed and optimistic. They are parroting the very same garbage that we were sold when we were in school.
When I was in school, some of the stuff they are spouting was true. But much like the Dodo the rainbows and unicorns have all gone extinct. Sadly the schools only wrote one sermon for the wide eyed applicants back then and they are still using the same lines today. They just aren't true anymore....
 

Timbo

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I do love the profession and I am planning on working in rural areas or joining the Public Health Service because I believe pharmacist are needed in those areas. I also feel as though with all the stuff we learn in pharm school the scope of our practice needs to be increased. Some folks not have any other choice but to take that salary and those areas if we are accounting for supply and demand. If you want to work in a large metropolitan area than you have to take the good with the bad.
I have a plan I’m not going in blindly. I served in the Navy for 4 years so I have no undergrad debt. I have the option of various commissioning programs along with the Public Health Service. I went back and forth between dental school med school and pharm school for 3 years weighing the pros and cons of each. Some of us aren’t just going in blindly without a plan.
If your tuition is paid for then the return of investment for you may be worth it, but for most people who take out +$150k loans it's not. The six figure salary is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Your 4 year doctorate degree +/- 2 years residency will soon only earn you as much as someone with only a master's or even bachelors and that's if you're lucky to land a job. Most people aren't realizing that and I get called a troll for telling them anecdotes about how this is already happening. Also I think that planning to work in a rural area because "you'll find a job as long as you're willing to move" is a misconception. When we're getting like 14,500 new PharmDs EVERY year, trust me, those rural areas are well taken care of. I work in a smaller city (~20k population) and I know we aren't hiring. In fact Shopko closed all their pharmacies nationwide including the one in town here, so we actually have more pharmacists than we have jobs for here.
 
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BC_89

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Yes the Navy still does have programs like that but for me I figured it would be easier to separate and then use my Post 911 gi bill. Like I said above I had to do a lot of self reflection to see what career I wanted to pursue, medicine ,dentistry, or pharmacy ( I was a hospital Corpsman).
I knew about the saturation since 2012, so that was taken into account when I made my career decision.

I was offered admission to UHCOP and I start P1 In the summer. Traditionally the Navy usually only has 4 spots nation wide for HSCP pharmacist students so you really have to make yourself stand out. The Public Health Service offers many slots and are in need of pharmacists.

The government also recently added 9 additional months to the post 911, 36 month cap for STEM students so I’m also going to see if I qualify for those additional months seeing as how I’m a STEM student. Thanks for the info though.

Also it’s nice that you don’t want to derail this thread. Sadly other people didn’t give the same consideration to the class of 2023 UHCOP thread and continued to detail it with anti-pharmacy rhetoric.
I believe I mentioned this to you when you had a financial aid questionnaire:

Depending with age you have an easy slot for ROTC (with an age cutoff for nontrads). You’d get a majority of schooling covered and get to retain your GI Bill for possible transfer to family members (if married) or for a lateral move later in life.

If you enlisted in TX, you better use that Hazelwood Act or already have. If not you should be graduating with cash in your pocket.

As for everyone else: Yes, I chose pharmacy
 
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mentos

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The market corrects itself.
That is what is happening right now. CVS and Walgreens expanded so much in the past 15 years that there is no where left to open new pharmacies, therefore no more jobs. Pharmacies are more likely to close than stay open these days. Look what happened in just a few years to Rite Aid, Target, Kmart, Stater Bros, Duane Reade, Omnicare, PillPack, Whole Foods, Aetna, and countless independents to name a few. Pharmacies are moving away from 24 hour stores, reducing weekend hours and overlap.

Reimbursements are lower each year which is why there have been no raises and more layoffs. Look at how much the stock price has plumetted for CVS and Walgreens. They peaked 3 years ago and are worth less than half now. The trend is still going down. Walgreens just announced that they will save billions in operating costs, guess how they'll do that? Pharmacists have been way overpaid for two decades and now they are coming back to reality.

The only way for pharmacist salaries to go up is if more pharmacies keep opening, reimbursements keep going up, company stocks keep going up, front store sales keep going up, and of course if there was a shortage of PharmDs to fill the positions. None of these things are happening and will not happen anytime in the foreseeable future. This is just like what happened to Radio Shack, Circuit City and Sears.

Good luck y'all.
 

megj

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That is what is happening right now. CVS and Walgreens expanded so much in the past 15 years that there is no where left to open new pharmacies, therefore no more jobs. Pharmacies are more likely to close than stay open these days. Look what happened in just a few years to Rite Aid, Target, Kmart, Stater Bros, Duane Reade, Omnicare, PillPack, Whole Foods, Aetna, and countless independents to name a few. Pharmacies are moving away from 24 hour stores, reducing weekend hours and overlap.

Reimbursements are lower each year which is why there have been no raises and more layoffs. Look at how much the stock price has plumetted for CVS and Walgreens. They peaked 3 years ago and are worth less than half now. The trend is still going down. Walgreens just announced that they will save billions in operating costs, guess how they'll do that? Pharmacists have been way overpaid for two decades and now they are coming back to reality.

The only way for pharmacist salaries to go up is if more pharmacies keep opening, reimbursements keep going up, company stocks keep going up, front store sales keep going up, and of course if there was a shortage of PharmDs to fill the positions. None of these things are happening and will not happen anytime in the foreseeable future. This is just like what happened to Radio Shack, Circuit City and Sears.

Good luck y'all.
There is more to pharmacy than retail. Retail isn’t growing but hospital positions and other areas in pharmacy are expanding.

I was just looking at the statistics for new grad employment at UHCOP and many went into residencies, about half went into retail, another percentage went into “other” and around 2 percent didn’t answer.
 

mentos

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There is more to pharmacy than retail. Retail isn’t growing but hospital positions and other areas in pharmacy are expanding.

I was just looking at the statistics for new grad employment at UHCOP and many went into residencies, about half went into retail, another percentage went into “other” and around 2 percent didn’t answer.
Retail is the only reason hospital pharmacists make good money. It's only a matter of time before hospital wages decline to catch up with market value. In my area they don't even hire full time hospital Rphs anymore, only part time and per diem so they don't have to pay benefits. Hospitals are not immune to shutting down or acquisitions either.

Those job placement surveys are highly biased and manipulated. I highly doubt only 2% of the class chose not to answer. How many of those jobs are full-time, 40 hours with benefits? The majority of them are most likely 32 hours, many are probably per diem or part time. Most importantly, where are they located? Probably mostly out of state away from family and friends.

A residency does not guarantee a job so I wouldn't even consider that employed when you have to interview for a job in a year or two. Paying off 6 figure loans with a 40k salary does not sound appealing at all.
 
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There is more to pharmacy than retail. Retail isn’t growing but hospital positions and other areas in pharmacy are expanding.

I was just looking at the statistics for new grad employment at UHCOP and many went into residencies, about half went into retail, another percentage went into “other” and around 2 percent didn’t answer.
Retail is the only reason hospital pharmacists make good money. It's only a matter of time before hospital wages decline to catch up with market value. In my area they don't even hire full time hospital Rphs anymore, only part time and per diem so they don't have to pay benefits. Hospitals are not immune to shutting down or acquisitions either.

Those job placement surveys are highly biased and manipulated. I highly doubt only 2% of the class chose not to answer. How many of those jobs are full-time, 40 hours with benefits? The majority of them are most likely 32 hours, many are probably per diem or part time. Most importantly, where are they located? Probably mostly out of state away from family and friends.

A residency does not guarantee a job so I wouldn't even consider that employed when you have to interview for a job in a year or two. Paying off 6 figure loans with a 40k salary does not sound appealing at all.
My school surveys P4’s about their job/employment/residency status the month before they graduate and if you don’t respond then by default they set your employment status as “retail.” There obviously is a huge nonresponse bias here because those who didn’t match and/or don’t have jobs do not want their classmates to know, so they won’t respond to the survey. I would say about 20% of my graduating class had no job or postgrad training lined up so the ultimate “postgraduate plans” published and presented at graduation were NOT reflective of the true number of employed grads. So to an outsider I can see why one can look at a survey like this and say “gee, looks like these schools have 98-100% employment rates. The market must not be bad at all. Forget these naysayers on SDN.”
 
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megj

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My school surveys P4’s about their job/employment/residency status the month before they graduate and if you don’t respond then by default they set your employment status as “retail.” There obviously is a huge nonresponse bias here because those who didn’t match and/or don’t have jobs do not want their classmates to know, so they won’t respond to the survey. I would say about 20% of my graduating class had no job or postgrad training lined up so the ultimate “postgraduate plans” published and presented at graduation were NOT reflective of the true number of employed grads. So to an outsider I can see why one can look at a survey like this and say “gee, looks like these schools have 98-100% employment rates. The market must not be bad at all. Forget these naysayers on SDN.”
So your school blatantly lies? This is why I believe most of you are trolls because every time someone has a response on the job market y’all come back with these outlandish anecdotes.

In a Pharm school in Oregon “ I forget which one it was a YouTube video” 98 percent of his class were employed after graduation. Certain areas in the US are better than others.

Also, why the hell would responding to a school surbey mean all of your class will know your business? My undergrad university just sent out an employment survey to me asking what I was doing. Lmao they are not going to contact my class and share my info, why the hell would they do that???

I think any response someone gives y’all will come up with something else, and I think some of you are Exaggerating to downright lying.
 
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megj

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Retail is the only reason hospital pharmacists make good money. It's only a matter of time before hospital wages decline to catch up with market value. In my area they don't even hire full time hospital Rphs anymore, only part time and per diem so they don't have to pay benefits. Hospitals are not immune to shutting down or acquisitions either.

Those job placement surveys are highly biased and manipulated. I highly doubt only 2% of the class chose not to answer. How many of those jobs are full-time, 40 hours with benefits? The majority of them are most likely 32 hours, many are probably per diem or part time. Most importantly, where are they located? Probably mostly out of state away from family and friends.

A residency does not guarantee a job so I wouldn't even consider that employed when you have to interview for a job in a year or two. Paying off 6 figure loans with a 40k salary does not sound appealing at all.
I don’t mind traveling to another state for a job. The survey didnt count residency as a job, residency had its own section. Most of the graduating class last year are employed or did a residency. The statistics aren’t showing the doom y’all are putting out. I didn’t go into pharmacy thinking I was going to have a job in a major metropolitan area. I’m single no family willing to travel.

To be honest I think y’all are highly biast and manipulative lmao.

I’m pretty sure someone is going to quote me back saying something along the lines of “you won’t ever find a job no matter where you travel!!!!”.
 

Sine Cura

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SDN posters are literally not even 0.01% of any profession they purportedly represent. If you did your homework as you claim, there is literally no other reason to you to be here either aside blow off steam/run your mouth like everyone else.

Pharmacy will be a **** career for most (for all the reasons previously cited by others) but some people will end up doing fine. Doesn't invalidate the first part.

Except that’s not how it works works when working in those chain stores. I worked at Sam’s club as a tech. The hours were based on how well the store was doing. If we were in a slump our hours were cut.
This indicates you literally know nothing about S3G or Schedule Right demand over the past 4-5 years (hint: downward trend largely independent of how "well" your store does), but obviously why would a tech know or care.
 

megj

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SDN posters are literally not even 0.01% of any profession they purportedly represent. If you did your homework as you claim, there is literally no other reason to you to be here either aside blow off steam/run your mouth like everyone else.

Pharmacy will be a **** career for most (for all the reasons previously cited by others) but some people will end up doing fine. Doesn't invalidate the first part.



This indicates you literally know nothing about S3G or Schedule Right demand over the past 4-5 years (hint: downward trend largely independent of how "well" your store does), but obviously why would a tech know or care.
I’m here to get info about my school yet these doom and gloom I hate being a pharmacist members keep spamming and detailing threads that have absolutely zest to due with the job market.
 

Sine Cura

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The smart thing to do would reach out to people who go to your school, like those who worked for me before going to pharmacy school (or are going to matriculate in the fall) do.
 

megj

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The smart thing to do would reach out to people who go to your school, like those who worked for me before going to pharmacy school (or are going to matriculate in the fall) do.
Yes I’m matriculating in the fall and I’m already part of the Facebook group, but I think the smart thing y’all could do is not continuously say the same thing over and over expecting different results. Going into threads basically harrassing posters about the job market.

The UHCOP thread was basically ruined because trolls came in there asking why everyone was choosing pharmacy. Y’all are killing the vibe in the forum and I’ve been lurking on here for around 10 years.
 
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So your school blatantly lies? This is why I believe most of you are trolls because every time someone has a response on the job market y’all come back with these outlandish anecdotes.

In a Pharm school in Oregon “ I forget which one it was a YouTube video” 98 percent of his class were employed after graduation. Certain areas in the US are better than others.

Also, why the hell would responding to a school surbey mean all of your class will know your business? My undergrad university just sent out an employment survey to me asking what I was doing. Lmao they are not going to contact my class and share my info, why the hell would they do that???

I think any response someone gives y’all will come up with something else, and I think some of you are Exaggerating to downright lying.
I wouldn’t call it blatantly lying so much as it is being extremely vague and misleading. And the reason why everyone will know what others are up to is because they send out a proof of the program at graduation for the whole class to double check whether their information is accurate...

Keep believing what you want to though. Take out those $200k loans and in 5 years come back to this forum as an unemployed new grad and we’ll say that we warned you. But there will be no sympathy whatsoever at that point.
 

megj

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I wouldn’t call it blatantly lying so much as it is being extremely vague and misleading. And the reason why everyone will know what others are up to is because they send out a proof of the program at graduation for the whole class to double check whether their information is accurate...

Keep believing what you want to though. Take out those $200k loans and in 5 years come back to this forum as an unemployed new grad and we’ll say that we warned you. But there will be no sympathy whatsoever at that point.
Well my cost of attendance is not that high at my school and secondly I’ll be graduating without student loans (Veteran). But thanks for the concern.
 

King2440

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Well my cost of attendance is not that high at my school and secondly I’ll be graduating without student loans (Veteran). But thanks for the concern.

You are def a minority.

Also why is your dean still telling students there ARE jobs and your school isn’t affected?? Why is your school still doing interviews for the fall?

It shows at the end of the day, schools care about one thing only, a student to fill a seat so that they get paid.

Anyway good luck with the job hunt in Houston, yet alone Texas. You will def need it.
 

megj

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You are def a minority.

Also why is your dean still telling students there ARE jobs and your school isn’t affected?? Why is your school still doing interviews for the fall?

It shows at the end of the day, schools care about one thing only, a student to fill a seat so that they get paid.

Anyway good luck with the job hunt in Houston, yet alone Texas. You will def need it.
My school is not doing interviews application cycle ended in February. I was the last interview group, and for the millionth time I don’t mind moving. I’m not even originally from Texas. My school hasn’t directly mentioned job openings. I’m looking at their statistics and I see that the unemployment/ not answer section is low.
 

King2440

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My school is not doing interviews application cycle ended in February. I was the last interview group, and for the millionth time I don’t mind moving. I’m not even originally from Texas. My school hasn’t directly mentioned job openings. I’m looking at their statistics and I see that the unemployment/ not answer section is low.

So I assume you are C/O 2023. What about the 60,000 other grads before you? You think they are ok with moving too?

You may have to go colonize Mars to find an RPh spot.
 

megj

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So I assume you are C/O 2023. What about the 60,000 other grads before you? You think they are ok with moving too?

You may have to go colonize Mars to find an RPh spot.
No a lot of them aren’t. Stop with the hyperboles, you will find a job if you put in the effort. You trying to tell me there are absolutely ZERO jobs out there??

Be careful how you answer that question because that determines if you are to be taken seriously to me.
 

King2440

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No a lot of them aren’t. Stop with the hyperboles, you will find a job if you put in the effort. You trying to tell me there are absolutely ZERO jobs out there??

Be careful how you answer that question because that determines if you are to be taken seriously to me.
Why would people make this up? Also, I don’t care if you believe me or not. I have a job, loans payed out etc. I did my homework and got into the field right before saturation got even worse.

I am having trouble finding my AWESOME P4 intern who has been with a certain company for 5 years +. He is actually from your school. Our company has yet to offer any interns a position nationwide.

Now you can go back and think these “doom and gloomers” are making this up, but sometimes you have to understand we are just trying to give out advice and fair warning.
 

megj

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Why would people make this up? Also, I don’t care if you believe me or not. I have a job, loans payed out etc. I did my homework and got into the field right before saturation got even worse.

I am having trouble finding my AWESOME P4 intern who has been with a certain company for 5 years +. He is actually from your school. Our company has yet to offer any interns a position nationwide.

Now you can go back and think these “doom and gloomers” are making this up, but sometimes you have to understand we are just trying to give out advice and fair warning.
Oh I have no doubt there is a saturation problem. I just think some areas are better than others, and I think y’all are exaggerating like crazy!!

I’ve been lurking this forum for 10 years going back and forth between pharmacy, medicine, and dentistry. I’ve workrd as a dental tech, I was a hospital Corpsman in the navy so I was able to work In all of the above departments.

I knew about the saturation since 2012. I also know that doing your research ahead of time and going to areas that aren’t as saturated is a must.

Funny you weren’t singing this same tune a couple months ago:
In the attachment you were adamant pharmacist are still needed.
 

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megj

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The inconsistent replies and gross exaggerations make me skeptical to take some of you seriously.
 

King2440

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Oh I have no doubt there is a saturation problem. I just think some areas are better than others, and I think y’all are exaggerating like crazy!!

I’ve been lurking this forum for 10 years going back and forth between pharmacy, medicine, and dentistry. I’ve workrd as a dental tech, I was a hospital Corpsman in the navy so I was able to work In all of the above departments.

I knew about the saturation since 2012. I also know that doing your research ahead of time and going to areas that aren’t as saturated is a must.

Funny you weren’t singing this same tune a couple months ago:
In the attachment you were adamant pharmacist are still needed.
They are needed in someway or another, but how do you feel you will be in a line behind 60,000 grads? And the sad part of it is pharmacy schools continue to open and continue to accept anyone. Do you not see something wrong here?


Also, I’m glad you lurked the forums for 10 years +. I’ve been in the pharmacy field for 15+. Salary going down, loans going up, enrollment at an all time high; that’s definitely not a good recipe.

By no means am I here to convince you to change fields. Just giving you fair warning that it will be hard or next to impossible to get a job. Best of luck to you though; you are going to probably the best school in Texas.
 

Sine Cura

10 seconds or less
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There will be no legitimate response to PCAT slightly higher than 55.
 

megj

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I rest my case, standards have been lowered tremendously. They literally take anyone with a pulse.
Lmao you were quoting someone else. That is not PCAT score. My PCAT score was 75 which was about average for UHCOP.

Lmao try again because as of now you sound like a bitter disgruntled underachieving pharmacist.
 

megj

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I’m on break relaxing until I start school. I suggest y’all spend you time doing something more productive than trying so hard to make everyone miserable.

There are constructive ways of getting your points across but that seems lost on some of you, but then again misery loves company.

On that note happy easter.
 
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Oh I have no doubt there is a saturation problem. I just think some areas are better than others, and I think y’all are exaggerating like crazy!!

I’ve been lurking this forum for 10 years going back and forth between pharmacy, medicine, and dentistry. I’ve workrd as a dental tech, I was a hospital Corpsman in the navy so I was able to work In all of the above departments.

I knew about the saturation since 2012. I also know that doing your research ahead of time and going to areas that aren’t as saturated is a must.

Funny you weren’t singing this same tune a couple months ago:
In the attachment you were adamant pharmacist are still needed.
I lurked this forum for a few months before I started posting. Reason being that the analyses and insights from the “doom and gloom” posters are spot on and validated my independent thoughts about this profession prior to discovering SDN. Now, are the commentaries colorful sometimes? Sure. But how thick the sarcasm is is reflective of how terrible the job market is.

Here’s a challenge for you: find a pharmacist that is truly happy with their job. I personally don’t know of any because it always comes down to money/salary issues or lack of job satisfaction/personal fulfillment issues.
 
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stoichiometrist

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I’m on break relaxing until I start school. I suggest y’all spend you time doing something more productive than trying so hard to make everyone miserable.

There are constructive ways of getting your points across but that seems lost on some of you, but then again misery loves company.

On that note happy easter.
Correction: we're trying to help others avoid becoming miserable by being $200k+ in loans and struggling to find a job, let alone one they like.

I cannot say for your situation specifically but as does @BC_89, I do commend that you guys have a plan to graduate with little or no debt.

The following are still facts.
  • Many of the major pharmacy chains have consolidated or closed their pharmacies
  • Hourly pay has reduced by $5-10
  • Full time pharmacists at most of the major chains are working only 32 hours per week. There have been some stories of pharmacists in extremely saturated areas working only 8 hours each week.
  • Jobs outside of dispensing still make up a very miniscule portion of the jobs. About 70% of the jobs are still in retail.
  • Despite the pharmacy closures and hour cuts, pharmacy schools are still graduating record numbers of students each year.
  • Most students graduate with six figures of debt. It's very easy to graduate with $200k+ in debt if you go to a private school.
While the profession may pay off for some I think I can safely say that at least 50% of the applicants going into pharmacy school have no business being in the profession, that is if there are even though jobs for half the graduates.
 
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stoichiometrist

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In a Pharm school in Oregon “ I forget which one it was a YouTube video” 98 percent of his class were employed after graduation. Certain areas in the US are better than others.
"Our job placement rate for new grads fell by 20% this past year compared to the previous." -said no pharmacy school ever.

Their top priority isn't even to help you with your career goals. Their top priority is to sell you a PharmD for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Pharmacy schools are a business, after all.
 

Rainee

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The fact is that there are declining and advancing fields. No industry stays on top forever and or grows forever.


If you look at GE stock it used to be all time highs but as time goes on it’s at all time lows. Same with jcpenny or sears.

But then there are some growing fields like cloud stocks, commerce like Shopify or even amazon.

Do you think pharmacy is a grower or do you think it’s going to be the next jc penny? Or maybe it stays stable and becomes a reit.
4 of my groomsmen were pharmacists. They all think pharmacy is changing. All of them are taking extra shifts to make the most of the situation now- and are actively trying to do secondary forms of passive income like real estate because they all believe that the returns on pharmacy will be poor in the future. What you think is up to you.
 
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megj

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"Our job placement rate for new grads fell by 20% this past year compared to the previous." -said no pharmacy school ever.

Their top priority isn't even to help you with your career goals. Their top priority is to sell you a PharmD for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Pharmacy schools are a business, after all.
This isn’t something I read. That was from a working pharmacist in Oregon. The west isn’t as saturated as the south and the north east. (Newly graduated pharmacist)
 

mentos

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So your school blatantly lies? This is why I believe most of you are trolls because every time someone has a response on the job market y’all come back with these outlandish anecdotes.
This post shows how naive you are and I do not mean that as an insult. That is like asking if a car salesman lies. The sole purpose of a pharmacy school is to profit, otherwise private schools would not exist and tuition would not increase exponentially each year. California has like 13 pharmacy schools now? I lost count. Every pharmacy school touts a "need" or "shortage" of pharmacists with endless opportunities, so yes they blatantly lie.

Ask yourself why several of us working pharmacists would be giving the same advice? No other forum on SDN has its own job market subforum or "trolls" warning people of the declining profession.
 
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stoichiometrist

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Pharmacists: The water has been nice and warm for a while but it is getting hotter. We should get out before we boil to death.

Pre-pharms: the water looks nice from afar. Those pharmacists in there must be nice and comfortable. I don't have the money to pay the admission fee into the pot. Can we borrow the money for the admission fee?
 
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megj

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This post shows how naive you are and I do not mean that as an insult. That is like asking if a car salesman lies. The sole purpose of a pharmacy school is to profit, otherwise private schools would not exist and tuition would not increase exponentially each year. California has like 13 pharmacy schools now? I lost count. Every pharmacy school touts a "need" or "shortage" of pharmacists with endless opportunities, so yes they blatantly lie.

Ask yourself why several of us working pharmacists would be giving the same advice? No other forum on SDN has its own job market subforum or "trolls" warning people of the declining profession.
Not naive at all. I just don’t automatically believe what online strangers say without doing my own research. This article was written by a pharmacist and it seems to hold a balanced view on the saturation.

They explain how unethical it is to keep opening up schools and questions the validity of a looming shortage in 2022. However, this article specifically advises students with a passion for pharmacy to ignore overly emotional disgruntled pharmacist on sdn. Yes the author specifically called you guys out (sdn pharmacist) as being extremely negative.

So yes I take what I read on here with a grain of salt. One of my many options is to go into the Public Health Service. As a prior service member I have a lot of options opened to me. I did my homework, and I happen to love pharmacy.
 

megj

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Pharmacists: The water has been nice and warm for a while but it is getting hotter. We should get out before we boil to death.

Pre-pharms: the water looks nice from afar. Those pharmacists in there must be nice and comfortable. I don't have the money to pay the admission fee into the pot. Can we borrow the money for the admission fee?
I think I noticed your screen name on Reddit. You really do this all day everyday?
 
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Not naive at all. I just don’t automatically believe what online strangers say without doing my own research. This article was written by a pharmacist and it seems to hold a balanced view on the saturation.

They explain how unethical it is to keep opening up schools and questions the validity of a looming shortage in 2022. However, this article specifically advises students with a passion for pharmacy to ignore overly emotional disgruntled pharmacist on sdn. Yes the author specifically called you guys out (sdn pharmacist) as being extremely negative.

So yes I take what I read on here with a grain of salt. One of my many options is to go into the Public Health Service. As a prior service member I have a lot of options opened to me. I did my homework, and I happen to love pharmacy.
LOL the author of that article is Alex Barker, master con artist and the very definition of a scam artist. He started his own company “The Happy PharmD” which is all about being a career coach for unemployed pharmacists and helping them get jobs. The whole premise of how he makes money is to convince pharmacists to not give up hope in this saturated market while extracting easy money from them because when you’re desperate for any job you’re going to start turning to CV/coaching services. He obviously is going to address the saturation head on to add “realism” and “credibility” to his name but spin it in such a way to always keep things positive. If you think about it, he is actually MORE DANGEROUS than faculty of pharmacy schools who spew BS because he 1. Isn’t even a practicing pharmacist, and 2. Preys on the desperate while faculty only prey on the uninformed.

Look at the big picture here - if there are actually jobs for pharmacists out there then people like Alex Barker would themselves be unemployed.
 
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