Yet Another Caribbean DANGER!! Thread

[Goro]

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Gullibility is one of the negative differentials that PDs are loath to accept Carib grads, and is also one of the traits that these diploma mills prey upon.

a friend of mine is set on going to Ross. stats wise she is not competitive for US MD schools, but she could definitely get into a DO school. I've tried convincing her to go DO over carib, but she is convinced an MD from Ross will help her more than going to a US DO school.. sigh.. anyway, she recently showed me a bunch of promotional packets she got from Ross in an attempt to convince me that her idea of going carib is solid.

one thing she got from Ross was a list of residency placements and she had circled all the competitive ones listed (surgery at mount sinai and neuro at duke are a few I remember seeing).

the other packet she had said that the Ross USMLE step 1 first time pass rate is 97 % and that this is higher than the first time pass rate for US MD students which was 96 %

I am truly concerned for her because she has been so misled. she has no idea what she is getting herself into

 

[Mad Jack]

In 2013, 532 grads from Dominica matched. http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf
It seems implausible that they matched so many more in only 2 years.
Perhaps they are defining "residency placement" differently.
You have to remember that the freshman class sizes are huge and they won't give validated information on attrition.

That report only counted first choice specialty as a successful match. So, most likely, 830 grads matched, but only around 500 of those got their first choice specialty.

 

[gyngyn]

That report only counted first choice specialty as a successful match. So, most likely, 830 grads matched, but only around 500 of those got their first choice specialty.

I've also considered that they included non-US "placements" in that number as well as SOAP's and "research" positions.

 

[StudyLater]

a friend of mine is set on going to Ross. stats wise she is not competitive for US MD schools, but she could definitely get into a DO school. I've tried convincing her to go DO over carib, but she is convinced an MD from Ross will help her more than going to a US DO school.. sigh.. anyway, she recently showed me a bunch of promotional packets she got from Ross in an attempt to convince me that her idea of going carib is solid.

Using Carib schools as a source for determining whether or not she should go to Carib schools.

 

[deleted212839]

Is attending a Caribbean medical school or pharmacy school (any) the worse investment? One can attend a "reputable" medical school and gun for a residency with the chance to fulfill a high annual earnings potential, where earnings potential is capped for the most part in pharmacy if one gets lucky to obtain a job in the retail sector - CVS, Wags, etc. I would reluctantly choose the Caribbean option in this case; any thoughts?

Pharmacy is not that bad; you shouldn't listen to the doom and gloom people on the forum. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/whats-up-with-all-these-doom-and-gloom-posts.1160148/

 

[jl lin]

a friend of mine is set on going to Ross. stats wise she is not competitive for US MD schools, but she could definitely get into a DO school. I've tried convincing her to go DO over carib, but she is convinced an MD from Ross will help her more than going to a US DO school.. sigh.. anyway, she recently showed me a bunch of promotional packets she got from Ross in an attempt to convince me that her idea of going carib is solid.

one thing she got from Ross was a list of residency placements and she had circled all the competitive ones listed (surgery at mount sinai and neuro at duke are a few I remember seeing).

the other packet she had said that the Ross USMLE step 1 first time pass rate is 97 % and that this is higher than the first time pass rate for US MD students which was 96 %

I am truly concerned for her because she has been so misled. she has no idea what she is getting herself into

I'd suggest that she do more research; however, it seems that her mind is set. Anytime you are to invest so much time and money, it behooves you to really do your research.

 

[Law2Doc]

That report only counted first choice specialty as a successful match. So, most likely, 830 grads matched, but only around 500 of those got their first choice specialty.

First choice based on what? I'm assuming we have to ignore self selection at the onset. But then, If someone at one point had multiple interests, only got interview(s) for one specialty do they get to then say "that was my first choice"? Id say there are a lot of people who make the best of bad situations by just telling themselves thats what they always wanted (after all the other doors close.) And do prelims get to count as people's first choices even though they might lead no where and they could be an applicant again in a year?

What I'm saying is first choice likely means something very different depending on when in the process you ask it because most try to make lemonade out of whatever lemons get thrown out of them, and the "first choice" at the end of the road might not have even been in contention at the beginning. Heck, a lot of people at offshore schools claim those schools to have been their first choices once US options look bleak. how many threads have we seen about people who claim to be "excited" to finish med school quicker, without having to do postbac and take the MCAT, etc...

 

[Mad Jack]

First choice based on what? I'm assuming we have to ignore self selection at the onset. But then, If someone at one point had multiple interests, only got interview(s) for one specialty do they get to then say "that was my first choice"? Id say there are a lot of people who make the best of bad situations by just telling themselves thats what they always wanted (after all the other doors close.) And do prelims get to count as people's first choices even though they might lead no where and they could be an applicant again in a year?

What I'm saying is first choice likely means something very different depending on when in the process you ask it because most try to make lemonade out of whatever lemons get thrown out of them, and the "first choice" at the end of the road might not have even been in contention at the beginning. Heck, a lot of people at offshore schools claim those schools to have been their first choices once US options look bleak. how many threads have we seen about people who claim to be "excited" to finish med school quicker, without having to do postbac and take the MCAT, etc...

I was using first choice as the match uses first choice, which is to say, the specialty you ranked first. That their first choice might be limited due to their lack of interviews and options is obviously going to be a factor.

 

[Law2Doc]

I was using first choice as the match uses first choice, which is to say, the specialty you ranked first. That their first choice might be limited due to their lack of interviews and options is obviously going to be a factor.

Yep. So basically they get shut out of interviews in twenty fields, end up with interviews in two dead end prelim surgery programs, and if they land one they just matched into their "first choice". Bully for them --and good luck to them in the match next year...

 

[Gandyy]

So for interviews for Residency.... Is the Residency application process worse, same as or better than the application fiasco for medical schools?

Anyone that can give unbiased, objective info on this question?

 

[Law2Doc]

So for interviews for Residency.... Is the Residency application process worse, same as or better than the application fiasco for medical schools?

Anyone that can give unbiased, objective info on this question?

It tends to be better organized as there are fewer total applicants for each specialty, no wait list, and the match system works well in giving people their top choice that wants them back. And soap is well organized for the stragglers. Just my opinion.

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Pharmacy is not that bad; you shouldn't listen to the doom and gloom people on the forum. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/whats-up-with-all-these-doom-and-gloom-posts.1160148/

I am a pretty optimistic person in general, but I'd be remissed to ignore Economics 101 and the currently disturbing trends in pharmacy. A decade ago, companies were giving out bonuses to newly hired pharmacists. Those offers are now long gone and even companies have decreased their offers because of the surplus of licensed candidates that continues to grow exponentially (50K surplus of pharmacists are expected in 10 years). Those in charge of hiring have every right to do so; older and more experienced pharmacists are getting replaced by younger graduates (cheaper labor) hungry to pay off these outrageous student loans. The explosion of these new residency programs in pharmacy is another way of masking the decreased job opportunities for new graduates. Let's face it - pharmacy, especially dispensing and verifying in general is rather algorithmic and rote in nature so there is no foolproof way of surviving in this business - perhaps one knows how to fib metrics or is experienced in the politics card but eventually the higher-ups catch on. A license in medicine, on the other hand, requires successful completion of an accredited residency which is obtained through high achievement in academics and examination scores, a successful career in dentistry requires one to master the art through fine-tuned dexterity skills and coordination coupled with wise business acumen, heck even a student can push the odds to his/her favor in the saturated field of law by working hard to attend a prestigious law school and passing a rigorous bar examination. From another perspective, the outcomes in these aforementioned alternatives to a pharmacy career is controlled by the motivation and successful completion of objective and standardized items - a clearly better way of comparing student A to student B rather than having the students go into a free for all battle in a career fair flicking business cards all over the auditorium.

 

[FumblyBumbly]

a friend of mine is set on going to Ross. stats wise she is not competitive for US MD schools, but she could definitely get into a DO school. I've tried convincing her to go DO over carib, but she is convinced an MD from Ross will help her more than going to a US DO school.. sigh.. anyway, she recently showed me a bunch of promotional packets she got from Ross in an attempt to convince me that her idea of going carib is solid.

one thing she got from Ross was a list of residency placements and she had circled all the competitive ones listed (surgery at mount sinai and neuro at duke are a few I remember seeing).

the other packet she had said that the Ross USMLE step 1 first time pass rate is 97 % and that this is higher than the first time pass rate for US MD students which was 96 %

I am truly concerned for her because she has been so misled. she has no idea what she is getting herself into

Do those residency placements list the names of the ones that matched? I think SGU does. Anyways, tell her to make note of their last names and then google that name with the specialty or with the medical center. I guarantee you that for the majority of the competitive matches, those students had some of familial pull. Hell, see if she can contact some of them. I've known a couple Caribbean grads that matched into really really competitive fields and they'll be the first ones to tell you that there's a lot more going on behind the curtains.

 

[Law2Doc]

Soap is good for US MD applicants...nightmare for everyone else.

This was true of course of the scramble as well, the SOAP just magnifies the psychological perception of rejection.

IMHO soap benefits US applicants much much more than scramble ever did. In scramble a lot of offshore people got spots simply by being fast to get their CV or call in before the fax machines or phone lines jammed. In soap it's not a race which means pedigree comes back into play.

 

[jl lin]

There really is no place to get reliable, clear numbers on any of these schools and we can only go with the fragmentary estimates



After scouring the Ross website, they state "

"MATCH RATE: In 2015, the first-attempt match rate for RUSM students was 88%."
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/Facts-and-Figures.cfm

To me that means, not they got their first choice, but rather on their first application to NRMP, they matched. So, it can be the 3rd, 5th, 8th choice on their first application.

Additionally, they use phrases such as "The majority of RUSM graduates secure residency positions through the National Residency Matching Program" and then in the next sentence they say "In 2015, more than 830 RUSM graduates earned a residency position." They also list a few dozen matches in Canada, which I assume are CaRMS. We dont know what they aggregating in these numbers, we dont know how they are counting seniors vs. past grads, which itself is complicated from have 3 cohorts a year, and the rest. Who are US Citizen IMGs, non-citizen IMGs, and how do we statistically deal with permanent residents. Are they more like citizens? With the large number of graduates, looking at their residency numbers over the past 5 years with the same scrutiny as any other school would be enlightening.

For the most part, I give credence to the adcom advisors/people and experienced residents/attendings here. Every single discussion on this largely lands in favor of those that advocate for medical education inside the US.

As I said, I know of those that went the Carribean route many years ago, but much has changed. So, to me, it is reasonable to listen to the positions that say it's just too risky--especially when you see people believing that MD off-shore will, in most cases, yield better results than DO. That's nonsensical thinking.

Now, I suppose if one has money to burn and nothing else to lose, as a last ditch effort, it may work out for him/her. Having limited access to decent residency options is, however, greatly problematic in my view.