2014-2015 Waitlist Support Group

[Temerit]

4 waitlists, 0 acceptances, potentially one more waitlist placement in the making.

:/ Still have faith something will work out

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[unnumzaan]

Their acceptances cannot be seen until a decision is rendered.

I assume that the acceptances database/report is updated in real time to reflect new offers received or withdrawals. Can schools see previous acceptances that an applicant withdrew from, or does the report only show current active offers?

 

[gyngyn]

I assume that the acceptances database/report is updated in real time to reflect new offers received or withdrawals. Can schools see previous acceptances that an applicant withdrew from, or does the report only show current active offers?

The report only shows the current situation.
We do record old reports at intervals, though.

 

[unnumzaan]

The report only shows the current situation.
We do record old reports at intervals, though.

I find the practice of recording old reports at intervals very interesting. Does the situation ever arise where you look at an applicant you're about to accept off the waitlist, but then see that they've recently withdrawn from Top10A and Top20B while holding onto UofRandomC and think to yourself well, this kid probably has his reasons about where he wants to go...maybe we shouldn't bother?

 

[sschwa31]

3.74 cGPA 3.73sGPA 29 MCAT
4 MD Interviews
3 waitlists
1 pending decision

This summer should be fun...

 

[gyngyn]

I find the practice of recording old reports at intervals very interesting. Does the situation ever arise where you look at an applicant you're about to accept off the waitlist, but then see that they've recently withdrawn from Top10A and Top20B while holding onto UofRandomC and think to yourself well, this kid probably has his reasons about where he wants to go...maybe we shouldn't bother?

You have a bright future in academic medicine!

 

[unnumzaan]

You have a bright future in academic medicine!

Hahah oh boy. Sounds an awful lot like what goes on behind closed doors in industry hiring.

I'll be sure to mention my yield-protecting intuition when interviewing at CA residencies in three years time.

 

[Rainbowkittens123]

Just found this thread. It's a little depressing, but interesting to see that so many people are in similar positions.

Applied to 16 MD schools, 8 II's, 7 WL's, 1 Rejection.
37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA, research publication and grants, varied and numerous clinical experiences, lots of volunteering and extracurriculars - teaching, tutoring, etc. I may be a cookie cutter applicant... but I didn't realize it would be this hard to gain an acceptance.

I spoke with some adcoms after interviewing and have overall gotten very positive feedback on my interview skills. At the end of the day, it seems medical schools can only offer so many acceptances, and they're just comparing applications to find the most competitive applicants. You can be a holistic applicant with great stats, but this whole process is clearly subjective. Very frustrated and hoping for waitlist movement for everyone.

 

[B216jt]

Just found this thread. It's a little depressing, but interesting to see that so many people are in similar positions.

Applied to 16 MD schools, 8 II's, 7 WL's, 1 Rejection.
37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA, research publication and grants, varied and numerous clinical experiences, lots of volunteering and extracurriculars - teaching, tutoring, etc. I may be a cookie cutter applicant... but I didn't realize it would be this hard to gain an acceptance.

I spoke with some adcoms after interviewing and have overall gotten very positive feedback on my interview skills. At the end of the day, it seems medical schools can only offer so many acceptances, and they're just comparing applications to find the most competitive applicants. You can be a holistic applicant with great stats, but this whole process is clearly subjective. Very frustrated and hoping for waitlist movement for everyone.

Yeah, I have similar stats to you. 39 MCAT, 3.8 GPA. Got 5 interviews and got waitlisted at 3 and rejected at 1. Still have one to hear back from. I also had similar ECs to you except I didn't get a publication. I also did not realize that acceptance would be so challenging.

Both of you have really great stats. Keep your head up. We got this!

 

[AspiringERMD]

I'm stunned to hear that you guys didn't get in. I'm so sorry; I'm pulling for you. Now I feel like I don't deserve my acceptances!

 

[MaybeDr]

Just found this thread. It's a little depressing, but interesting to see that so many people are in similar positions.

Applied to 16 MD schools, 8 II's, 7 WL's, 1 Rejection.
37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA, research publication and grants, varied and numerous clinical experiences, lots of volunteering and extracurriculars - teaching, tutoring, etc. I may be a cookie cutter applicant... but I didn't realize it would be this hard to gain an acceptance.

I spoke with some adcoms after interviewing and have overall gotten very positive feedback on my interview skills. At the end of the day, it seems medical schools can only offer so many acceptances, and they're just comparing applications to find the most competitive applicants. You can be a holistic applicant with great stats, but this whole process is clearly subjective. Very frustrated and hoping for waitlist movement for everyone.

Yeah, I have similar stats to you. 39 MCAT, 3.8 GPA. Got 5 interviews and got waitlisted at 3 and rejected at 1. Still have one to hear back from. I also had similar ECs to you except I didn't get a publication. I also did not realize that acceptance would be so challenging.

I'm really curious of the schools you both applied to. It seems really unusual that you received so many waitlists!

 

[Temerit]

Yeah, I have similar stats to you. 39 MCAT, 3.8 GPA. Got 5 interviews and got waitlisted at 3 and rejected at 1. Still have one to hear back from. I also had similar ECs to you except I didn't get a publication. I also did not realize that acceptance would be so challenging.

Add me to this list... 3.8 / 38 / publication, tons of shadowing, clinical volunteering, research, leadership, 6 solid LORs
7 MD interviews
4 waitlists
2 rejections
1 pending (most likely waitlist as well)

Sorry to hear you guys are going through this, but at the same time there is some comfort in knowing I'm not alone.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

officially on 7 (!!) waitlists with no MD acceptances. going to be a long crappy wait until WL movement starts

 

[deleted436726]

Add me to this list... 3.8 / 38 / publication, tons of shadowing, clinical volunteering, research, leadership, 6 solid LORs
7 MD interviews
4 waitlists
2 rejections
1 pending (most likely waitlist as well)

Sorry to hear you guys are going through this, but at the same time there is some comfort in knowing I'm not alone.

Holy ****...I can't believe you haven't gotten an acceptance with those stats.

 

[prdv]

officially on 7 (!!) waitlists with no acceptances. going to be a long crappy wait until WL movement starts

I feel ya man....April 30 is right around the corner. I'm pretty scared haha 5 MD waitlists for me, no acceptances yet

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I feel ya man....April 30 is right around the corner. I'm pretty scared haha 5 MD waitlists for me, no acceptances yet

same man. will be crushed if none of these schools give me a shot

 

[B216jt]

Can anyone clarify... People say April 30, some say May 15. In the past I know it has been May 15, but what is it this year?

 

[womanofscience]

Can anyone clarify... People say April 30, some say May 15. In the past I know it has been May 15, but what is it this year?

In the past, MD/PhD was April 30 while MD-only was May 15.

However, decision day (day to hold one acceptance) is definitely April 30 for all candidates. Check out aamc traffic rules...you should have received an email from them about it!

 

[resiroth]

Add me to this list... 3.8 / 38 / publication, tons of shadowing, clinical volunteering, research, leadership, 6 solid LORs
7 MD interviews
4 waitlists
2 rejections
1 pending (most likely waitlist as well)

Sorry to hear you guys are going through this, but at the same time there is some comfort in knowing I'm not alone.

Holy ****...I can't believe you haven't gotten an acceptance with those stats.

While I sincerely hope Temerit gets into a school (he deserves it that's for sure) if you look at his MDApps he applied very top-heavy. I completely understand why: his stats are great and he has strong ECs. That being said I saw an MDApps where someone with similar stats was accepted to just 1 school: an unranked SUNY (as an OOS).

It's easy to get wrapped up in the tales of the superstar SDN applicants, but remember...in the end you can only pick 1, and that level of success is far from the norm. People usually don't go around bragging they got into 1 (unranked) school if their stats are top 1-2%, nor do they post "Unranked school vs Nothing" threads, but it does happen (check top 10% for schools 30-80 and you'll see at least 10% of students have very high MCATs). As a result we're all inundated with "Yale vs Harvard vs JHU vs UCSF" threads which aren't representative, even if your app is strong.

I really do hope you get in to your school of choice Temerit, and I also hope you don't beat yourself up thinking you interviewed poorly. A lot of these schools have 75% post-interview rejection rates, and at the top it truly is a somewhat random process.

I am positive if you reapplied this coming cycle you would get an acceptance if you broadened your net, but with any luck that won't be necessary.

 

[coffeemergency]

5/5 WL. Is April over yet? Haha.

 

[B216jt]

In the past, MD/PhD was April 30 while MD-only was May 15.

However, decision day (day to hold one acceptance) is definitely April 30 for all candidates. Check out aamc traffic rules...you should have received an email from them about it!

Thanks!!

 

[Kay293T]

Looks like I'm not alone in anxiously waiting for the end of April.

37 MCAT/3.8 GPA
non-trad

7 II
6 WL
1 pending

 

[Temerit]

While I sincerely hope Temerit gets into a school (he deserves it that's for sure) if you look at his MDApps he applied very top-heavy. I completely understand why: his stats are great and he has strong ECs. That being said I saw an MDApps where someone with similar stats was accepted to just 1 school: an unranked SUNY (as an OOS).

Thanks for the well wishes, I really appreciate it.

Yeah I did apply top-heavy, but a big factor was location for me, I just wish there was such a thing as a mid-tier west coast school. Also, the lowest ranked schools I applied to (Tufts, OHSU) I didn't even get interviews at.

I've done absolutely everything possible on my part (as far as strengthening my application and having meaningful updates), now it's just the waiting game! I really hope something does work out, but yes you're right I could reapply more broadly next year and perhaps fare better, plus I have done a lot of things this year that would greatly strengthen my application.

 

[deleted642351]

3 interviews
2 waitlists
1 pending decision (to be made 4/10 or 4/13...gah!)

 

[El-ahrairah]

.

 

[ridethecliche]

I see. So the answer is that the case where a school hasn't officially waitlisted someone after May 15th is vanishingly rare, and pointless on their part to boot.

I do remember seeing an applicant who got a waitlist notification from Stanford in June last year, but that must be the product of an admissions office under a lot of stress and making unusual decisions.

Thanks for explaining all of this, I hope I haven't derailed the thread for those who need the support.

Much later edit: Now I understand why it would be more strategic to waitlist everyone rather than keep them in limbo. It allows the school to access the student's other acceptances sooner, as long as it's after April 1st. So schools that are letting people stay in no-decision limbo are truly just inefficient because they would have something to gain from making a decision.

This is also why it is important to do your research for late interviews and sell yourself to the school AND tell them why they are it for you. I honestly think that this helped me get into Jeff. I talked to the interviewer at length about my reasons for wanting to stay close to my family during the interview. He knew I was local and he asked about it. I also sent an interest letter to the school months before my interview talking about that.

Just found this thread. It's a little depressing, but interesting to see that so many people are in similar positions.

Applied to 16 MD schools, 8 II's, 7 WL's, 1 Rejection.
37 MCAT, 3.8 GPA, research publication and grants, varied and numerous clinical experiences, lots of volunteering and extracurriculars - teaching, tutoring, etc. I may be a cookie cutter applicant... but I didn't realize it would be this hard to gain an acceptance.

I spoke with some adcoms after interviewing and have overall gotten very positive feedback on my interview skills. At the end of the day, it seems medical schools can only offer so many acceptances, and they're just comparing applications to find the most competitive applicants. You can be a holistic applicant with great stats, but this whole process is clearly subjective. Very frustrated and hoping for waitlist movement for everyone.

Yeah, I have similar stats to you. 39 MCAT, 3.8 GPA. Got 5 interviews and got waitlisted at 3 and rejected at 1. Still have one to hear back from. I also had similar ECs to you except I didn't get a publication. I also did not realize that acceptance would be so challenging.

Add me to this list... 3.8 / 38 / publication, tons of shadowing, clinical volunteering, research, leadership, 6 solid LORs
7 MD interviews
4 waitlists
2 rejections
1 pending (most likely waitlist as well)

Sorry to hear you guys are going through this, but at the same time there is some comfort in knowing I'm not alone.

Looks like I'm not alone in anxiously waiting for the end of April.

37 MCAT/3.8 GPA
non-trad

7 II
6 WL
1 pending

To the posters I quoted above, I would really suggest sending Interest letters to some of your schools. There's a good chance you were waitlisted because they thought you might have acceptances elsewhere. Now you need to get them to re-notice you on their waitlist since they can see that you're in limbo.

 

[gyngyn]

There's a good chance you were waitlisted because they thought you might have acceptances elsewhere.

I don't know any school that does this.
Every school I know could fill up their interview slots with extremely high-scoring applicants. We can only interview the ones we like the best that are more likely to attend. This "yield protection" is actually just resource management and it occurs before the interview. It makes no sense to waitlist the best interviewees when an early acceptance is our strongest recruitment tool.

 

[Goro]

100% agree with my learned colleague. The logic of "s/he won't come here because they could easily get into XCOM" doesn't fly in our Adcom meetings.

I don't know any school that does this.
Every school I know could fill up their interview slots with extremely high-scoring applicants. We can only interview the ones we like the best that are more likely to attend. This "yield protection" is actually just resource management and it occurs before the interview. It makes no sense to waitlist the best interviewees when an early acceptance is our strongest recruitment tool.

 

[NavyDoc23]

Just thought I'd provide some encouragement... Last year I interviewed at 7 places and was waitlisted at all 7. I knew I didn't do well at a few interviews, but thought I did really well at a few as well. It's such a confusing process, so you just learn to not take anything personally. Anyways, I waited for what seemed like forever (7 months for one of the acceptances), but finally got accepted to that one on May 5th, and then another on May 6th. I withdrew from the other 5, but who knows!? Maybe would've been accepted to another on May 7th, 8th, etc. you just never know! I'm not telling you not to worry, because I know I did, but just don't worry so much that it's all you can think about. There's a lot more to life than getting accepted to medical school.

 

[ridethecliche]

I don't know any school that does this.
Every school I know could fill up their interview slots with extremely high-scoring applicants. We can only interview the ones we like the best that are more likely to attend. This "yield protection" is actually just resource management and it occurs before the interview. It makes no sense to waitlist the best interviewees when an early acceptance is our strongest recruitment tool.

Sure, I suppose, but there's no harm letting them know that they want it as the schools can't see where else they're holding waitlists.

 

[ski89]

I couple questions for you @gyngyn if you don't mind.

1. What (approx) percent of total waitlist movement occurs in the first month following decision day?

2. Why is it that waitlist movement sometimes extends into July? Is this just the product of people withdrawing from schools for personal reasons at the last minute and the school scrambling to fill the spot?

3. Do you expect this year to have especially high waitlist movement given the trend of people applying to more schools?

Thanks

 

[gyngyn]

I couple questions for you @gyngyn if you don't mind.

1. What (approx) percent of total waitlist movement occurs in the first month following decision day?

2. Why is it that waitlist movement sometimes extends into July? Is this just the product of people withdrawing from schools for personal reasons at the last minute and the school scrambling to fill the spot?

3. Do you expect this year to have especially high waitlist movement given the trend of people applying to more schools?

Thanks

1. I know of no source of reliable data to answer this question. In my experience, the first big wave of adjustment usually happens in the first month after traffic day.
2. The "most desirable" schools begin the process by poaching applicants from schools that will then poach students from the schools below them. This repeats more slowly until school starts. Part of the strategy of an early start date is to keep a school's best students from such thievery. Withdrawal for other reasons is uncommon.
3. Waitlist movement varies dramatically from school to school and from year to year. I cannot hazard a general guess regarding this year's outcomes.

 

[ridethecliche]

There is no rule that requires a decision by any date (expect for a sufficient # to fill the class by 3/15).
We cannot see anything about your acceptances until we render a decision, though.

So schools don't have to make a final decision?

We can see where waitlisted candidates are holding an acceptance after April Fool's day.
(You sure type fast).

Can a school see this if they send status to AMCAS but never notify the student?

I am starting to get the sense that an applicant who has no decision on their application by late April is in a functional state equivalent to a waitlist. They have heard no definitive news; their other acceptances can be seen; and they have no timetable for when they might hear. I think this helps me understand--hopefully those in this thread will find it helpful too. If not the most pleasant state of being. (Edited to add: I wasn't quite right, see below.)

Right, but their other acceptances can't be seen since the school hasn't officially waitlisted them, no? Or is this possible without notifying the student? (i.e. what I just asked above)

You can make a primary offer, but you cannot draw from the waitlist without calling the school being poached!
There is really no good reason not to put everyone on the waitlist after May 15th.

Would that be may 1st for this cycle? Wasn't may 15th the date for 'must hold only one acceptance' day?

I see. So the answer is that the case where a school hasn't officially waitlisted someone after May 15th is vanishingly rare, and pointless on their part to boot.

I do remember seeing an applicant who got a waitlist notification from Stanford in June last year, but that must be the product of an admissions office under a lot of stress and making unusual decisions.

Thanks for explaining all of this, I hope I haven't derailed the thread for those who need the support.

Much later edit: Now I understand why it would be more strategic to waitlist everyone rather than keep them in limbo. It allows the school to access the student's other acceptances sooner, as long as it's after April 1st. So schools that are letting people stay in no-decision limbo are truly just inefficient because they would have something to gain from making a decision.

I'm curious if this may 15th date being thrown around is may 1st this year since everything moved up, or so I thought.

I agree that they're being inefficient, but I think traffic rules should dictate that students should be notified of final post interview decision by the end of April.

 

[ridethecliche]

1. I know of no source of reliable data to answer this question. In my experience, the first big wave of adjustment usually happens in the first month after traffic day.
2. The "most desirable" schools begin the process by poaching applicants from schools that will then poach students from the schools below them. This repeats more slowly until school starts. Part of the strategy of an early start date is to keep a school's best students from such thievery. Withdrawal for other reasons is uncommon.
3. Waitlist movement varies dramatically from school to school and from year to year. I cannot hazard a general guess regarding this year's outcomes.

I FREAKING KNEW IT!

I was musing about this on the Class of 2019 thread earlier. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Shams al Deen]

I don't know any school that does this.
Every school I know could fill up their interview slots with extremely high-scoring applicants. We can only interview the ones we like the best that are more likely to attend. This "yield protection" is actually just resource management and it occurs before the interview. It makes no sense to waitlist the best interviewees when an early acceptance is our strongest recruitment tool.

I'm sure there are exceptions to this though. Like some state schools have a rule to interview basically all in-state applicants that are above a certain stat threshold. So I would guess that those schools exercise "yield protection" after interviews (at lease for IS applicants). Also, is yield protection solely done for resource management.? I thought it helped their rankings (schools care about their ranking even more than premeds do).

 

[gyngyn]

I'm sure there are exceptions to this though. Like some state schools have a rule to interview basically all in-state applicants that are above a certain stat threshold. So I would guess that those schools exercise "yield protection" after interviews (at lease for IS applicants). Also, is yield protection solely done for resource management.? I thought it helped their rankings (schools care about their ranking even more than premeds do).

You are correct. I am only referring to schools at liberty to interview anyone without a statutory obligation. (e.g. not TX!).
While selectivity does have a small effect on perception, in practice all schools with which I am well acquainted are far more interested in using their resources to get the best class they can possibly seat. Ultimately, selectivity is a very small variable in rankings.

 

[gyngyn]

So schools don't have to make a final decision?



Can a school see this if they send status to AMCAS but never notify the student?



Right, but their other acceptances can't be seen since the school hasn't officially waitlisted them, no? Or is this possible without notifying the student? (i.e. what I just asked above)



Would that be may 1st for this cycle? Wasn't may 15th the date for 'must hold only one acceptance' day?



I'm curious if this may 15th date being thrown around is may 1st this year since everything moved up, or so I thought.

I agree that they're being inefficient, but I think traffic rules should dictate that students should be notified of final post interview decision by the end of April.

I can't imagine what benefit there would be in not notifying the student of a committee decision but the school cannot see the alternate waitlist acceptances until a decision has been submitted to AMCAS.
Required poaching notification begins in June.

 

[lockdoc92]

You are correct. I am only referring to schools at liberty to interview anyone without a statutory obligation. (e.g. not TX!).
While selectivity does have a small effect on perception, in practice all schools with which I am well acquainted are far more interested in using their resources to get the best class they can possibly seat. Ultimately, selectivity is a very small variable in rankings.

Would you please elaborate on this? How does a schools waitlist "strategy" change when they are mandated to interview certain IS students?

 

[ridethecliche]

I can't imagine what benefit there would be in not notifying the student of a committee decision but the school cannot see the alternate waitlist acceptances until a decision has been submitted to AMCAS.
Required poaching notification begins in June.

So schools don't notify each other about 'poaching' in May even though students might be withdrawing during May? Or is the poaching notification something that has to be sent to the school along with the notification the student gets.
I.e. in may only student is notified about acceptance off waitlist and student withdraws from other school if they're already accepted, whereas in june the poacher school has to notify both the student and the institution where said student is holding an acceptance.

 

[ridethecliche]

@breakintheroof , I wish I knew game theory a bit better, because this feels like it would make for a crazy application of it!

 

[gyngyn]

Would you please elaborate on this? How does a schools waitlist "strategy" change when they are mandated to interview certain IS students?

As I have never been a participant in a state mandated requirement regarding interviews or IS percentage I cannot tell you exactly how they manage this. They probably interview a relatively small proportion of OOS candidates and assure statutory mandates by adjusting the percentage on waitlisted candidates. In other words, if a public school in TX were to have fewer than 90% IS by the time they reached the waitlist they would draw only from IS candidates until the goal was reached.

 

[gyngyn]

So schools don't notify each other about 'poaching' in May even though students might be withdrawing during May? Or is the poaching notification something that has to be sent to the school along with the notification the student gets.
I.e. in may only student is notified about acceptance off waitlist and student withdraws from other school if they're already accepted, whereas in june the poacher school has to notify both the student and the institution where said student is holding an acceptance.

Yes.

 

[lockdoc92]

Why do the schools need to notify the other schools of "poaching"?

 

[gyngyn]

Why do the schools need to notify the other schools of "poaching"?

It's a traffic violation if we don't.

 

[lockdoc92]

As I have never been a participant in a state mandated requirement regarding interviews or IS percentage I cannot tell you exactly how they manage this. They probably interview a relatively small proportion of OOS candidates and assure statutory mandates by adjusting the percentage on waitlisted candidates. In other words, if a public school in TX were to have fewer than 90% IS by the time they reached the waitlist they would draw only from IS candidates until the goal was reached.

Would a school in that situation be more inclined to waitlist a higher stat applicant due to the inability to pre-screen and give themselves some sort of "yield protection"?

 

[lockdoc92]

It's a traffic violation if we don't.

So it's perfectly fine to accept a student off a waitlist as long as you notify the school they are holding their acceptance with beforehand?

Is it just a formality or is anything done by either party in this situation post-notification?

 

[gyngyn]

Would a school in that situation be more inclined to waitlist a higher stat applicant due to the inability to pre-screen and give themselves some sort of "yield protection"?

No. Resource management happens before the interview. If you wanted someone enough to interview them and are a highly desirable candidate, it makes no sense to waitlist them.

 

[lockdoc92]

No. Resource management happens before the interview. If you wanted someone enough to interview them and are a highly desirable candidate, it makes no sense to waitlist them.

Aren't you limited in pre-interview resource management when you are mandated to interview students above a certain stat threshold?

 

[gyngyn]

So it's perfectly fine to accept a student off a waitlist as long as you notify the school they are holding their acceptance with beforehand?

Is it just a formality or is anything done by either party in this situation post-notification?

Yes.
The original school might try to keep the candidate by whatever means they have at their disposal.
The poaching school generally perceives themselves to be "better" in some way than the original school.
This is why I'm always saying that "LOI's" are only indicated when you are holding an acceptance at a "better" or cheaper school. Not the other way around!

 

[gyngyn]

Aren't you limited in pre-interview resource management when you are mandated to interview students above a certain stat threshold?

Yes! I'm glad I've never had to deal with this.
I can see why it's good for IS applicants in these states, though.