Anyone applying for 2015?

[BubblegumPop]

This thread is about the Ochsner program which is designed for graduates to get residencies in the USA. It's clearly marketed that way to students, no students sign up to the program with the intention of working in Australia (if they wanted to stay in Australia they would do the regular four year Australian program).

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[nuggette]

wow a 32, did you try for US schools with a score like that?

Nah I missed the application cycle as I was volunteering abroad.. In any case, my ugpa would've severely limited my chances, and I prefer to expand my international experiences anyway.

btw, not that I want to jump in that hostile conversation above... but I just want to say in response to @Transition that the job prospects continue to worsen in almost any industry, and I think it's very misleading to approach the uq-o program based on that. The competition will continue to rise whether you're in Oz or the US, and though international students may be slightly at a disadvantage, if we're not prepared to take the risks and work our a** off, we shouldn't be in this field of study anyway. But every person has their own reasons for choosing/not choosing this program. Tuition and living expenses are notably outrageous, but I think it's unfair to say that UQ is solely out to "take our money". Sure, it's probably at the top of their list.. if they can attract students who can afford it, why wouldn't they? But if I have any faith in humanity (which we should as future doctors), I like to believe the program is also genuinely meant to create more opportunities for us.. not just for profit.

 

[qldking]

pittman seriously cracks me up. He calls me a 'troll' because I am pointing out the obvious fact that UQ is playing a large role in a generation of med students/future doctors being screwed. Everyone in the Australian hospital system knows about it. Not even a decade ago there were only 330 intern places a year and everyone matched into a spot and could get into the residency they wanted, and now UQ alone is graduating twice as many students without the number of training programs increasing, but to point that out makes me a 'troll'. And he doesn't really understand the long term implications of this---doctors will cease to hold any sort of power and will be totally at the mercy of the administration/bureaucracy henceforth. And it's damn scary.

I think he must be one of the only people out there who actually defends the actions of the university system.

 

[qldking]

Nah I missed the application cycle as I was volunteering abroad.. In any case, my ugpa would've severely limited my chances, and I prefer to expand my international experiences anyway.

btw, not that I want to jump in that hostile conversation above... but I just want to say in response to @Transition that the job prospects continue to worsen in almost any industry, and I think it's very misleading to approach the uq-o program based on that. The competition will continue to rise whether you're in Oz or the US, and though international students may be slightly at a disadvantage, if we're not prepared to take the risks and work our a** off, we shouldn't be in this field of study anyway. But every person has their own reasons for choosing/not choosing this program. Tuition and living expenses are notably outrageous, but I think it's unfair to say that UQ is solely out to "take our money". Sure, it's probably at the top of their list.. if they can attract students who can afford it, why wouldn't they? But if I have any faith in humanity (which we should as future doctors), I like to believe the program is also genuinely meant to create more opportunities for us.. not just for profit.

LOL it's all about profit. These guys saw a financial opportunity and exploited it....by all accounts it is enabling students to attain residencies etc but you're deluded if you think it wasn't done for money.

 

[nuggette]

LOL it's all about profit. These guys saw a financial opportunity and exploited it....by all accounts it is enabling students to attain residencies etc but you're deluded if you think it wasn't done for money.

Idk why everyone is so quick to attack the other on here. I never said it wasn't for the money. Obviously we live in a capitalistic society where that is inevitable. I merely pointed out that maybe we should appreciate some other (perhaps minor) points on the agenda.

I'm sure someone will have some sly remark about this post as well, which is fine. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But I think most of us joined this forum and particularly this thread to find support- not to attack the many problems of our education system we have no control over. Calling each other "deluded", "troll", "rude", "obnoxious" is not helpful to anyone.. Just sayin'

 

[pitman]

pittman seriously cracks me up. He calls me a 'troll' because I am pointing out the obvious fact that UQ is playing a large role in a generation of med students/future doctors being screwed. Everyone in the Australian hospital system knows about it. Not even a decade ago there were only 330 intern places a year and everyone matched into a spot and could get into the residency they wanted, and now UQ alone is graduating twice as many students without the number of training programs increasing, but to point that out makes me a 'troll'. And he doesn't really understand the long term implications of this---doctors will cease to hold any sort of power and will be totally at the mercy of the administration/bureaucracy henceforth. And it's damn scary.

I think he must be one of the only people out there who actually defends the actions of the university system.

Interesting straw man argument, qldking.

Again, as qldking knows well, I have not called him or anyone a troll simply for being critical of Australian schools or health system. But again, qldking's behavior does resemble that of a seriously disturbed individual when facts do not matter and assertions are manufactured (as I have barely touched on in the references above), and then repeated as soon as it seems members might have forgotten the same claims, despite having been demonstrated over and over again by the many knowledgeable members here. He is not only wrong virtually all of the time, but wrong in the most fundamental and easily verifiable manner. Over and over again.

Again, there have been no years (yet) where there have been fewer intern spots than grads. Again, I take no issue with assertions that grad numbers have radically increased, that there are now too many students when in the recent past there were far too few, and that all med schools in Australia -- including UQ -- have had their role in this increase. I agree with such benign obervations. Again, pointing such out does not make one a troll, but nor do such assertions imply absurdly unsubstantiated ones like "UQ is a money factory", "UQ will accept anyone who has money", "grads haven't been getting jobs", and the such, from people who demonstrably have no insight and simply want to demonize based on whatever dark seed is motivating them.

As to Transition, I shall post shortly on his own long history here of scaremongering and disinformation, with references. In the meantime, bring it on.

The big tipoff that these two are not in the least bit interested in the truth, and feign offense whenever their bitterness is pointed out, is in their own post records. The big problem with attempting to make me sound like some cheerleader for Australian med (or UQ specifically) is my long trackrecord of posts, where I do not hold back the punches on issues with the schools here, where it is warranted. To pretend otherwise is laughable, beyond ignorant.

What I don't do is accept without response the unfounded, bitter slander by the likes of qldking (qldman before him), Transition, and similar ilk who come and go over the years spouting nonsense. Readers are more than welcome to read past posts from any member here, and the more that the disingenuous feign rage and engage in projection, the more I will steadfastly respond, with links, to their long history of twisted, angry, manufactured claims.

 

[Transition]

Ok pitman, whatever.

Keep up the vitriole and slander, I have nothing further to add. You make what should be a board for sharing information a place of argument and constant name calling. Honestly, I don't know what motivates you to continue posting here but so be it. I'm just going to continue to ignore you as I have in the past.

 

[BubblegumPop]

On the topic of Australian internships for international students; the UQ student run international committee has confirmed that no UQ graduate who has applied for an Australian internship has ever missed out on one so far.
If I remember correctly they also quoted figures (for this year) of 70% of Canadians who applied to the Canadian match getting positions (examples: pediatrics, ortho, IM, pathology, FM, emergency, neurology, psych, diagnostic radiology, cardiothoracic surgery) as well as 80% of non-Ochsner applicants to the US match (examples of residencies (multiples of each): IM, pathology, pediatrics, psych, radiology). Those figures are probably skewed since lots of Canadians would apply to both matches. But these are all very encouraging outcomes (all graduates are working as doctors, somewhere) and from the international student group so can definitely be believed.

 

[Transition]

Nah I missed the application cycle as I was volunteering abroad.. In any case, my ugpa would've severely limited my chances, and I prefer to expand my international experiences anyway.

btw, not that I want to jump in that hostile conversation above... but I just want to say in response to @Transition that the job prospects continue to worsen in almost any industry, and I think it's very misleading to approach the uq-o program based on that. The competition will continue to rise whether you're in Oz or the US, and though international students may be slightly at a disadvantage, if we're not prepared to take the risks and work our a** off, we shouldn't be in this field of study anyway. But every person has their own reasons for choosing/not choosing this program. Tuition and living expenses are notably outrageous, but I think it's unfair to say that UQ is solely out to "take our money". Sure, it's probably at the top of their list.. if they can attract students who can afford it, why wouldn't they? But if I have any faith in humanity (which we should as future doctors), I like to believe the program is also genuinely meant to create more opportunities for us.. not just for profit.

I wish I were as optimistic as you but 4 years as a med student and half a year as a doc has jaded me somewhat. It did very much feel like we were here for merely the profit of these institutions. Of course, everyone has their own experiences and I hope and wish you the best.

What is different about medicine from other industries tho is that you can not practice in your trained profession without that residency and residencies for non residents are becoming scarce across the world. This is a scary prospect and we may be looking at doctors without jobs in the near future. I of course blame a lot of this on the extraordinary increases in student numbers. I use UQ as an example because of how much they have increased (200 internationals alone) with a significant decrease in admission standards (my gf at the time 4 years prior received an offer with a 24 mcat with a 2.8 gpa). Sure, the average may be high, but I reckon this has more to do with the quality of applicants being rejected in the USA or Canada than it reflects any stringency UQ applies to its admission criteria for internationals. This very much comes off as profiteering, at least in my opinion and, certainly, not how I expect a medical school in a western nation to behave. Don't get me wrong, I think all Aussie med schools are guilty of this, but I use UQ as the most obvious example.

 

[Transition]

On the topic of Australian internships for international students; the UQ student run international committee has confirmed that no UQ graduate who has applied for an Australian internship has ever missed out on one so far.
If I remember correctly they also quoted figures (for this year) of 70% of Canadians who applied to the Canadian match getting positions (examples: pediatrics, ortho, IM, pathology, FM, emergency, neurology, psych, diagnostic radiology, cardiothoracic surgery) as well as 80% of non-Ochsner applicants to the US match (examples of residencies (multiples of each): IM, pathology, pediatrics, psych, radiology). Those figures are probably skewed since lots of Canadians would apply to both matches. But these are all very encouraging outcomes (all graduates are working as doctors, somewhere) and from the international student group so can definitely be believed.

We are but at the head of the tsunami. It's like trying to judge the power of a tsunami by measuring the first few waves that have struck shore. The numbers have not plateau'd and funding is becoming scarce. It is a particularly bad time now given the current ruling party in Australia. Just google "Australia budget" and you'll see what I mean. As of now, internship spots nationwide are decreasing in numbers due to budget cuts when student numbers are headed the other way. It is not a good time to enrol.

 

[luckyely91]

I have read somewhere around here that people have been rejected...I'll try to find it again for you. But if anyone can chime in on this question..that'd be great

Did you hear back yet @foody? I hope we both get in!

 

[aficianado]

Mmm feelin some mad negative vibes on this thread the past few days. As with a lot of things in life, I feel that the matter regarding tuition is up to the mindset of the individual. Yes, the tuition is very expensive, that has been established. Yes, the number of residency spots has not been adjusted accordingly with the increased number of medical students (yet, hopefully). Yes, this will increase the competition for existing spots. However, I am a believer of the old adage, "where there's a will, there's a way".

There will always be significant competition in any field that requires highly specialized skills and knowledge. An investment banker, a world renown concert pianist, or a chemical engineer is not immune to competition, it will always exist. If an individual is driven, enthusiastic, and has a positive mindset to pursue the career that he or she believes will give him or her personal fulfillment and adequate fiscal compensation, then who is to say nay?

Personally, I see the UQ-Ochsner program as valuable opportunity to receive a world class medical education and achieve my eventual goal of becoming a practicing physician. If attending this program, God willing, as opposed to a 4 year US institution means spending 12-13 years (or even longer) paying off my debt instead of "only" 10, then so be it. I'll be doing something that I know I'm meant to do and if I'm not happy then, then I don't think I would've been happy anyway.

I congratulate Qldking, Pitman, and Transition on putting in the time and significant effort in achieving your goals of becoming physicians and I hope to one day join your ranks where I can leave my house every morning and perform my job with enthusiasm (or at least not burning resentment and agony, knock on wood). And for me personally, if I'm still trawling these forums after I graduate from med school and become a doctor, someone please slap me (or more realistically, suggest a fun hobby for me to occupy my spare time with).

P.S. I know my username is spelled incorrectly, but I'm too lazy to make a new account

 

[pitman]

The MBBS program over-enrolled by about 100 or so students this year.

...it is fairly certain that the entry of internationals requires little in the way of stats given that you apply early enough. Conceding at least that obvious point would bring some form of credibility to your statements. Otherwise, you come off as nothing less than a blind stoic defender of one's Alma mater. No better than people that vote along party lines without looking at the facts behind the arguments.

Ok then. I just got off the phone with a UQMS Exec Committee member and then a friend in UQ admissions.

1) In response to the question, "Was there an over-enrolment this past year?", the answer was that there were more acceptances by applicants than expected, making the class size larger than had been projected by...4 or 5 students, but this was a known unknown and well within expectations in admissions when it's impossible to know how many accepted students will choose UQ (ironically pretty much means the very small 'over-enrolment' was due to an unexpected increase in popularity of the school).

In other words, qldking appears to have made this up (putting a bogus number to prior vague claims of over-enrolment implying low standards)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...r-and-other-oz-schools.1058121/#post-15016001

2) Transition will love this next one, as I've had to correct him numerous times on his particular, oft repeated claim. In response to the question, "Are students at an advantage to apply early?", the answer today was that admissions "adapts every year" and tries to base acceptances on what is expected throughout the admissions cycle, and that "it would be unwise to assume it would be easier to apply early in the cycle". Additionally, "rejection rates are comparable throughout the admissions cycle".

In other words, Transition seems to have made this up (or simply ignored the consistent, very basic reasoning given to him in years past that such an assertion is baseless).

More to come...

 

[pitman]

Transition loves to make assertions about UQ admissions and internship placement despite knowing diddly about them. The best I can fathom is that he is certain that grads have been going without jobs despite their never having been a year that grad numbers outpaced student numbers, that standards must have lowered at UQ despite the stats for int'l students having remained constant (marginally up from a decade ago) while those for domestic students has increased to be at the top for Australia, and that he doesn't understand the fallacy in his assuming anyone can get in to UQ based on knowing a couple people who got in with low-end MCAT scores during rolling admissions. Because that's the extent of his reasoning. Really.

To start, here is Transition's similarly bitter attitude towards UQ in general:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/uq-ochsner-mbbs-2013.915102/page-2#post-13266647
I would welcome Transition showing me where I am somehow a cheerleader for UQ. For someone who is critical of UQ in a fair manner -- someone I don't lambast for being disturbingly unhinged -- see posts by Phloston.

Transition making no sense wrt admissions stats (yet that doesn't stop him from apparently making them up…)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/uq-queensland-mbbs-admissions.1009432/#post-14115072

...more fallacious inferences about the stats:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/stats-for-us-grads-in-aus-med-schools.964150/#post-13301236

...Flat out making up stats (about students not getting internship):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...nals-looking-to-come-here-please-read.960650/
…and not retracting the claim despite being shown that he is flat out wrong (reinforcing the idea that he made them up and wasn't simply gullible with something he had heard):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-here-please-read.960650/page-2#post-14122931

More to come...

 

[qldking]

On the topic of Australian internships for international students; the UQ student run international committee has confirmed that no UQ graduate who has applied for an Australian internship has ever missed out on one so far.
If I remember correctly they also quoted figures (for this year) of 70% of Canadians who applied to the Canadian match getting positions (examples: pediatrics, ortho, IM, pathology, FM, emergency, neurology, psych, diagnostic radiology, cardiothoracic surgery) as well as 80% of non-Ochsner applicants to the US match (examples of residencies (multiples of each): IM, pathology, pediatrics, psych, radiology). Those figures are probably skewed since lots of Canadians would apply to both matches. But these are all very encouraging outcomes (all graduates are working as doctors, somewhere) and from the international student group so can definitely be believed.

Thats misleading because it isn't including people who applied and gave up and went back home.

 

[pitman]

We are but at the head of the tsunami. It's like trying to judge the power of a tsunami by measuring the first few waves that have struck shore. The numbers have not plateau'd and funding is becoming scarce...As of now, internship spots nationwide are decreasing in numbers due to budget cuts when student numbers are headed the other way.

...and now UQ alone is graduating twice as many students without the number of training programs increasing, but to point that out makes me a 'troll'.

No, it just makes you clueless.

To date, the number of intern spots has kept pace with the number of grads. Every year. There has been no reduction in internship spots over the past decade at least (since the beginning of the tsunami).

Graduate numbers are not accelerating nor expected to keep going up -- the large increases are in the past (2012 and earlier, actually), and after very small increases this year and next, 2016 will see the plateau. Let me say that again, so that there is no misunderstanding: we are way beyond the "first few waves" of the tsunami -- the peak is upon us and anyone actually involved with the issue understands this.

People, Transition included (see links above), seem to LOVE to claim each year (usu before the states even have their Ballots!) that the spots have filled up, that there are none left, that there are no jobs, that "in the future" there will be Armageddon, no money...

As I have consistently said for, I dunno, about a decade...each year things have gotten tighter, and jobs are never guaranteed, but each year there have been enough jobs, because there has been the will to make the jobs happen. I'd love to hear about which budgets (SA's? Really, that's your argument? Based on...?) Transition thinks are cutting back on internship spots this early in the season. But for some actual hard data, namely the actual trends and the plateau, here's a simple graph from the MDA, previously posted in direct response to these same tired claims by the likes of Transition:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachments/mtrp15-med_grads-by_year-jpg.23141/

As I said, anyone can go and check our record here...

 

[pitman]

Transition in 2010 assuming standards would have to go down when UQ dropped its interview...still adamantly claimed by him in the face of stats that say otherwise (note the sly ad hominem implying that anyone who knows something about a school must have a vested interest in defending it, while those who know nothing about it...):
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...sions-in-canada-feb-2010.697271/#post-9252413

I'm just going to continue to ignore you as I have in the past.

Indeed, just like you are in this thread, and have each time you've thrown out the silly innuendos.

 

[qldking]

No, it just makes you clueless.

To date, the number of intern spots has kept pace with the number of grads. Every year. There has been no reduction in internship spots over the past decade at least (since the beginning of the tsunami).

Numbers are not going up and up and up -- the largest increases are in the past (2012, actually), and after a smaller increase this year, next year will be the plateau. Let me say that again, so that there is no misunderstanding: we are way beyond the "first few waves" of the tsunami -- the peak is upon us and anyone actually involved with the issue understands this.

People, Transition included (see links above), seem to LOVE to claim each year (usu before the states even have their Ballots!) that the spots have filled up, that there are none left, that there are no jobs, that "in the future" there will be Armageddon, no money...

As I have consistently said for, I dunno, about a decade...each year things have gotten tighter, and jobs are never guaranteed, but each year there have been enough jobs, because there has been the will to make the jobs happen. I'd love to hear about which budgets (SA's? Really, that's your argument? Based on...?) Transition thinks are cutting back on internship spots this early in the season. But for some actual hard data, namely the actual trends and the plateau, here's a simple graph from the MDA, posted in direct response to these same very tired claims echoed by Transition:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachments/mtrp15-med_grads-by_year-jpg.23141/

As I said, anyone can go and check our record here...

How can you claim this BS and not realize how clueless you are?

It EVEN STATES ON THE QLD HEALTH SITE THAT INTERNSHIP SPOTS HAVE DOUBLED OVER THE PAST DECADE

You think if you hurl insults at anyone who challenges you as the mouthpiece of UQ that it somehow proves your argument.

 

[pitman]

How can you claim this BS and not realize how clueless you are?

It EVEN STATES ON THE QLD HEALTH SITE THAT INTERNSHIP SPOTS HAVE DOUBLED OVER THE PAST DECADE

You think if you hurl insults at anyone who challenges you as the mouthpiece of UQ that it somehow proves your argument.

Um. Did you hit your head? Internship spots have kept pace with grad numbers, which, yes, I agree have increased massively over the past decade (before levelling out, as per the graph).

Yeah, saying that or anything else objectively makes me the "mouthpiece of UQ". Uh huh. Yep. And then when you repeat such tripe, simply ignoring all those places where you've been demonstrated to have been far wide of the mark, repeatedly as though without a conscience, you whinge that you aren't taken seriously, that people seem to be picking on poor you, that you aren't given more...respect??

 

[qldking]

Um. Did you hit your head? Internship spots have kept pace with grad numbers, which, yes, I agree have increased massively over the past decade (before levelling out, as per the graph).

Yeah, saying that or anything else objectively makes me the "mouthpiece of UQ". Uh huh. Yep. And then when you repeat such tripe, you whinge that you aren't taken seriously, that people seem to be picking on poor you, that you aren't given more...respect? For...

And what do you suspect will happen to training opportunities and physicians when supply outstrips demand?

Let's see if you can process the logical progression.

 

[pitman]

And what do you suspect will happen to training opportunities and physicians when supply outstrips demand?

Let's see if you can process the logical progression.

qldking, you are the one who claimed that there have been no increases in the supply, that there HAVE been all sorts of things, like poor placement by Ochsner students (refuted thoroughly), like past int'l students without any job prospects (wrong every time it's claimed), like massive over-enrolments by UQ geared to rob the innocents of their wealth (equally wrong every time you re-sharpen the claim), that the Ipswich campus is gone and UQ has to shut down training (despite mainstream media articles saying the opposite), and on and on and on, relentlessly, as if you're hoping that one might slip through and take hold.

You have been wrong with virtually every statement you have ever made with respect to UQ in a dozen or so threads. I don't play hypothetical scenario with clearly disturbed, angry, bitter, proven liars as yourself. Period.

 

[qldking]

qldking, you are the one who claimed that there have been no increases in the supply, that there HAVE been all sorts of things, like poor placement by Ochsner students (empirically and easily shown to be wrong), like past int'l students without any job prospects (wrong every year), like massive over-enrolments by UQ geared to rob the innocents of their wealth (wrong every time you re-sharpen the claim), that the Ipswich campus is gone and UQ has to shut down training (despite the reports of mainstream media articles), and on and on and on, relentlessly, as if you're hoping that one might slip through and take hold.

You have been wrong with virtually every statement you have ever made with respect to UQ in a dozen or so threads. I don't play hypothetical scenario with clearly disturbed, angry, bitter, proven liars as yourself. Period.

It likely is gone---there was an 'emergency' meeting two weeks ago in which it was hoped med would remain (despite all the other programs being gone) and the Anatomy facility is already shut down. Call the folks at UQMS if you don't believe me.

 

[BubblegumPop]

Thats misleading because it isn't including people who applied and gave up and went back home.

It includes everyone. The international student committee is not lying to other international students.

 

[qldking]

It includes everyone. The international student committee is not lying to other international students.

So it includes people who applied to be in Brisbane and couldn't get an intern position and then went back to Canada? Or are you saying they all received offers?

 

[BubblegumPop]

Everyone who applied in Queensland or elsewhere in Australia all got offers of intern positions according to the international committee. Not even category one Australian students are able to reject regional offers if that's where they're allocated (computer allocations- no not all Australians get the exact location they want). If someone is going back to Canada because they don't want to move elsewhere in Australia then they can't be too serious about their careers.

 

[pitman]

...and such is why there were many Commonwealth Medical Internship spots that remained unfilled, for a second year running. There simply has been no shortage yet of spots for domestic or int'l students in Australia.

 

[qldking]

...and such is why there were many Commonwealth Medical Internship spots that remained unfilled, for a second year running. There simply has been no shortage yet of spots for domestic or int'l students in Australia.

Thats because many of them decided to go home and because many of those private hospitals were outside of brisbane in areas where most Canadians did not want to be--also the perception/possible reality that teaching and other opportunities are not as good at the private hospitals.

And no one quite knows yet what the situation will be with the Commonwealth funded spots after all the Canadians bailed out after 6 months and put a black mark on the initiative.

 

[pitman]

And there you go again. As if anything that you've said before...wasn't said.

Yes, many decided to go home to N. America. They did so choose. And those who chose to stay, got a job here. And more could have stayed than went home. But they chose not to. And so there were spots that remained. Again. The point stands.

The feedback from those who train in the private CMI spots in Qld has been overwhelmingly positive, while your silly meandering hypotheticals are meaningless. As is your bogus claim of mass exodus from CMI spots. You just have no clue when to stop.

Int'ls also never made any assumption they could stay in Brisbane given they've never been P1. You would know this if you ever were a UQ Int'l student. Hey, then again, with the private spots, they actually had a better chance at being in Brisbane...so which is it, they left because they couldn't be in Brisbane as they never really could, or they left because they refused to spend a year in Brisbane somewhere that got a thumbs up?

Not knowing the future is a far cry from pretending to know it. You're shooting blanks.

 

[qldking]

And there you go again. As if anything that you've said before...wasn't said.

Yes, many decided to go home to N. America. They did so choose. And those who chose to stay, got a job here. And more could have stayed than went home. But they chose not to. And so there were spots that remained. Again. The point stands.

The feedback from those who train in the private CMI spots in Qld has been overwhelmingly positive, while your silly meandering hypotheticals are meaningless. As is your bogus claim of mass exodus from CMI spots. You just have no clue when to stop.

Int'ls also never made any assumption they could stay in Brisbane given they've never been P1. You would know this if you ever were a UQ Int'l student. Hey, then again, with the private spots, they actually had a better chance at being in Brisbane...so which is it, they left because they couldn't be in Brisbane as they never really could, or they left because they refused to spend a year in Brisbane somewhere that got a thumbs up?

Not knowing the future is a far cry from pretending to know it. You're shooting blanks.

They left because

(a) They got a job they wanted in Canada or which was more suitable for them (and most of them are from well-off families and can afford to do these sorts of things)

or

(b) They went back to Canada because they knew there would be no future in the city hospitals for them beyond a Commonwealth funded/medical school tsunami funded intern slot with the current pyramid scheme and didn't want to be relegated to the rural setting.

 

[pitman]

Of course it could never be a good thing that there has always been a spot for int'l students wanting to stay.

Despite your prior objections that there have not.

Get it?

 

[qldking]

Of course it could never be a good thing that there has always been a spot for int'l students wanting to stay.

Despite your prior objections that there have not.

Get it?

Ah yes, ignore that these Commonwealth funded spots are basically pity internship created solely because the schools don't want to lose their cash cows...

 

[BubblegumPop]

UQ is now controlling the Australian government?
(edit: I shouldn't tease, this aggressive paranoia is quite worrying.)

 

[Transition]

About 3400 grads in 2013, projected nearly 4000 in 2018. Sure doesn't seem to be a plateau to me. Are you clueless pitman? Seriously dude, have some respect.

South Australia -http://www.saimet.org.au

SA Intern Positions 2015


One of the measures in the 2014 Federal budget was the abolition of the Prevocational General Practice Placement Program (PGPPP). This program provided funding for prevocational doctors to undertake placements in general practice settings.


In 2014 the PGPPP funded 23 intern positions in South Australia for a total of 278 intern positions, plus 16 PGY2+ positions. With the loss of this funding, the number of intern positions in South Australia for 2015 will be reduced proportionately. Final numbers are still being determined, and will be dependent on the accreditation of additional emergency medicine terms in public hospitals.


It is anticipated that there will be 244 Commonwealth-supported graduates from SA medical schools in 2015 and 47 international student graduates. SA Health is not able to make any prediction regarding the number of intern positions that will be available for International medical students in 2015.

23 less intern positions. 16 fewer RMiO. Not sure what will happen in other states but they are also losing their pgppp places.

Edit - pitman, please stick to the thread and don't devolve this into personal attacks as you so often do.

 

[pitman]

Edit - pitman, please stick to the thread and don't devolve this into personal attacks as you so often do.

You're freakin' hilarious.

Are you applying for 2015?

 

[pitman]

About 3400 grads in 2013, projected nearly 4000 in 2018. Sure doesn't seem to be a plateau to me. Are you clueless pitman? Seriously dude, have some respect.

Um, more like 3600 in 2013. Yeah, a 3% increase per year, that's massive.

As the MDA says, "the rate of growth slowing markedly post 2012", with growth "up until 2016", when the numbers peak. I have no idea what you think is disrespectful there. That the rate of increase has been negative, and there will no longer be the need to make the massive increases -- upwards of 15% per year -- that were made over the 5 years to 2012? Or that domestic and int'l students alike have all been able to get a job in the face of naysayers as yourself?

The internship numbers for next year, once again, haven't been determined. That's my point. And neither have the CMI spots, which, like the PGPPP spots, the Commonwealth has been funding (100 last year). Is this like that time when you said that there are bucketloads of grads without jobs ("182 to be exact") when none were? Are we now prophesying the future?

Respect, you say. I'd think it disrespectful to imply that people's degrees are worthless, that they shouldn't want to be in Australia, that they shouldn't have wanted to come here, that somehow the choices they've made are wrong, that they are wasting their time and money.

I haven't confused my prejudices with the facts, making careless fallacies using bogus numbers to project a personal bias of Australian med school. If I had, others may have made grave decisions based on misinformation and potentially missed out on their career. People are making decisions for the rest of their lives, and I take my responsibility here very seriously. That is respect.

 

[luckyely91]

I'm sorry, not to be mean at all, but I feel like this thread has totally gone an a tangent. I think it was created for those who are planning on applying for 2015, not to get into petty arguments or disagreements. If anyone could help provide information about the application and admissions for 2015, that would be greatly appreciated. If you guys want to continue debating, possibly create or go on another thread? Not to add wood to the fire, so to speak. I'm just really interested in the admissions process.

 

[foody]

@luckyely91 agree completely.

And no havent heard anything back yet....anybody else?

 

[Xenophon]

I contacted mededpath this week to inquire whether they have received any update from UQ about the MCAT. Mededpath hasn't heard anything. Otherwise, I am just as much in the dark as you folks...

 

[luckyely91]

I'm just wondering what the basis of acceptance is. I have heard rumors that it is strictly MCAT-based and then I've heard that it's strictly when you get your application in - the sooner, the better. I have yet to hear of anyone getting rejected, so that's something hopeful, I suppose. :/

 

[Xenophon]

I'm just wondering what the basis of acceptance is. I have heard rumors that it is strictly MCAT-based and then I've heard that it's strictly when you get your application in - the sooner, the better.

From what I gather, admission is combination of both elements. It is rolling admissions (so earlier submission is probably better), but I believe the UQ committee bases their decision largely on your MCAT score.

I asked a similar question earlier in this thread and a few people replied. You can read it here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/anyone-applying-for-2015.1063442/#post-15086481

There was also a lot of discussion about it in the UQ-Ochsner 2014 thread. You might want to check out what user nybgrus (who was President of the Ochsner Medical Student Association) says here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/uq-ochsner-2014.1019329/page-2#post-14550701

Hope this helps.

 

[sherry1006]

Hey, I just submit my application yesterday. Is that too late already? I just heard this program from my advisor last week. Plus, the UQ has a new MD program to replace the MBBS program in 2015, does that affect us?

 

[jntbco]

Hey, I just submit my application yesterday. Is that too late already? I just heard this program from my advisor last week. Plus, the UQ has a new MD program to replace the MBBS program in 2015, does that affect us?

@sherry1006 , in past years applicants have received acceptances as late as December so you're probably fine as long as you meet the admissions criteria. I assume admissions will become more competitive in the years to come as the program becomes more well-known. And yes, if you are accepted to this year's class, which starts early Feb 2015, you will receive an MD. The previous MBBS degree was a level 7 in the Australian system, the MD will be level 9. Not sure exactly how/if the curriculum will be different.. a research requirement possibly? If anyone knows more about this, please chime in!

 

[mcat_taker]

I have a few questions since this thread went really off tangent...I have been hearing more and more about this school over the years and I'm definitely interested...I also think it would be really exotic and great for personal development to get the opportunity to live and get an MD from Australia.

1)if you get accepted for 2015 can you defer your acceptance for a year?
2)Can you hold a dual citizenship for UQ-O? For example for US and Australia and still be eligible for the Ochsner cohort, I've heard that as long as you have a US citizenship you qualify for this cohort, is this true?
3) Is med school easier in Australia? I heard that its less focused on basic sciences, how does this affect ones preparation for the USMLE and for practice in the US?
4)What is the attrition rate, are kids failing out? thats one reason why I'm hesitant about going the caribbean route, despite knowing a couple kids that went to SGU and were very successful with residencies etc, I've heard those schools are just meat grinders that fail out 20-30 percent of their classes.
5)Is this the best program in Australia for US citizens wanting to work in the US afterwards?
6)Do they look at any other part of your application besides the mcat? Its probably my weakest link. I haven't taken it yet but I am soon.

 

[luckyely91]

@mcat_taker

Hey! I know some of the answers to your questions, and I am also curious about some of them as well.

1. No, unfortunately you cannot. I already asked with regards to personal dental work done in the U.S. (that may take over a year), and they recommended I just apply next year. I think University of Queensland does referrals though, but definitely not UQ-Oschner.
2. Yes, I believe so! Just as long as you have U.S. citizenship as well, you're solid!
3. Unsure, also curious. However, I heard that the USMLE preparation is getting better at UQ-Ochsner.
4. Unsure, also curious.
5. Unsure, also curious.
6. Unsure, also curious. I posted a similar question earlier in this thread.

Even though I only answered 2 questions, hopefully I was some help.

 

[mcat_taker]

@mcat_taker

Hey! I know some of the answers to your questions, and I am also curious about some of them as well.

1. No, unfortunately you cannot. I already asked with regards to personal dental work done in the U.S. (that may take over a year), and they recommended I just apply next year. I think University of Queensland does referrals though, but definitely not UQ-Oschner.
2. Yes, I believe so! Just as long as you have U.S. citizenship as well, you're solid!
3. Unsure, also curious. However, I heard that the USMLE preparation is getting better at UQ-Ochsner.
4. Unsure, also curious.
5. Unsure, also curious.
6. Unsure, also curious. I posted a similar question earlier in this thread.

Even though I only answered 2 questions, hopefully I was some help.

Thank you for responding! I'm really praying I can get at least that 7-8 in physical sciences on my MCAT, otherwise my other sections are ok. Got an 11 on verbal on my last AAMC practice and bio is coming around slowly. But judging by some of the MCATs of people who have been accepted on these boards, it looks like people are applying with some high stats

 

[nuggette]

@mcat_taker idk if you're taking an MCAT prep course or not, but I have some really good study tools for the PS section. PM me if you're interested

 

[nuggette]

also. to answer #4, I read somewhere the attrition rate was 2% I think, but not sure how accurate that is given how new the program is and how small the class sizes have been so far..

 

[BubblegumPop]

4) In answering this you have to realize that there is nothing different between the regular UQ medical program and the Ochsner program, the last two years are just done in different locations. For Australian students in the regular program the attrition rate is tiny. Almost nothing. But they're not on the other side of the world, very far from family, taking out big loans to pay for it all. Also the UQ medical program is arguably the most difficult school for Australians to get into for various reasons that aren't important (so lots of high achieving, motivated students). I've seen no official stats but I do remember the class of 2015 started with about 87 students. Here there were 67 students starting third year https://academics.ochsner.org/audyn.aspx?id=61721. So I guess 20 students are either repeating classes or have quit in the two years in between (~23%). This calculation doesn't include people who have failed the previous year and dropped back to this cohort...But my point is, the program isn't where the problem lies and it has more to do with other things like poor study skills, which is part of why someone is an international student in the first place. (If someone had average results in undergrad, how are they suddenly going to be top of the medical school class?) Nuggette, in response to the post above, if you read an attrition rate of 2% I'd say that's an average of all students, not just Ochsner.

5) No other Australian program has two years of US clinical experience (but do have electives that you can organize yourself for 2 or so rotations). US students have done very well from other Australian schools. UQ will have a group of 120 students studying for USMLE (USMLE tutorials weekly, shared resources, tips and support), plus you're closer to home already after two years.

and back to:
3) Not many people would have attended school in both places and could possibly directly compare, but do you honestly think so? Considering Australia has something like the second highest life expectancy in the world (Japan being #1 I think...I'm just using this as a surrogate marker of the quality of the health care system, so the exact ranking of each country or the validity of the rankings doesn't need to be debated), do you think that could occur with poorly trained doctors who went to an "easy" medical school? Also it depends on what you find easy. Someone who is academically brilliant but has trouble communicating comfortably with patients will find medical school impossible. People say there is a more clinical focus than basic science, but isn't that a good thing for your patients? Also, only you personally can sit down and memorize content for board exams, no magical school lets you avoid that. If different schools effect USMLE scores so much why do I see every student, from every school using the same few resources to study with?

 

[qldking]

I'm sorry, not to be mean at all, but I feel like this thread has totally gone an a tangent. I think it was created for those who are planning on applying for 2015, not to get into petty arguments or disagreements. If anyone could help provide information about the application and admissions for 2015, that would be greatly appreciated. If you guys want to continue debating, possibly create or go on another thread? Not to add wood to the fire, so to speak. I'm just really interested in the admissions process.

Its very relevant because you (or your parents) will be shelling out a lot of money for medical school.

This is what the QLD health intern recruitment position status looks like 2 days before the deadline.

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/medical/intern/apply-now.asp

click 'apply now', then 'position status report'

 

[BubblegumPop]

Again, you're commenting in a UQ-Ochsner thread, no one cares about Australian internships.
But regardless, apart from the three most popular hospitals in the state (and, strangely, Bundaberg?), everything looks great! Logan and Ipswich are both half an hour driving distance from central Brisbane and have hardly any applicants.