ArroWW game

[dpmd]

She never seer-ed as not a wolf. She seer-ed as a different name. If Nyanko investigated her 3x she would get affiliation, if she investigated her twice she would have seen her role ability and figured out she was a wolf.

If Carbon had checked how to kill her ONCE (which was in her role description so don't say there was no idea a way existed) she would have found out they needed 2 people to attack at once.

The idea of Team Arrow was you guys had to work together to kill the Lone original wolf.

Never knew that about carbon's role but again why would she do with the info she had. Plus there was some other evidence of people trying to find each other so not knowing the show well it was easy to let it go.

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[Samoa]

Nyanko had talked about seering Samoa twice too.

Which is why we killed her.

We actually weren't sure whether we had to kill all of team arrow before Oliver was killable, or whether we had to attack with two people.

As for game advantage, we had no seer and half the players were inconvertible. Plus I got busted on my very first conversion attempt, so if I'd been easily killable the game would be over on the 4th night.

 

[thedrjojo]

And mind you, I played in the Matrix WW, where no one had any powers until they were selected to find out IF they had powers at all. Had to go to the oracle to discover your powers. It made that game come to a crawl, but it didnt break it dead.

wasn't the only way to find alduin in the Skyrim game for the lissa character to investigate him? and then lissa died night 1?

Even without investigating Samoa that way, Chillbo almost figured it out himself...

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

Interesting fact: wolves have won the past 6 WW games.

 

[StartingoverVet]

my comment is, and this goes to the DocE mode of modding, that everything is placed in a game for a reason.

You know that you specifically have a skill to learn how to kill someone, and you have someone who is obviously difficult to kill, I would think it was important for me to use my skill on that.

That being said, unless you think that Samoa is a wolf, there is no imperative to actually use the two kill attempts on her simultaneous.

In a game requiring a lot of coordination, minimum communication hurts the ability to coordinate.

Which is why Team Arrow got to become a PM-ing group, so they could communicate.

And I actually thought I gave too much killing ability to team arrow. And I specifically told them in their roles to use their kills strategically as they would be crucial to the game. I felt bad they used it all up, but oh well.

 

[thedrjojo]

Which is why we killed her.

We actually weren't sure whether we had to kill all of team arrow before Oliver was killable, or whether we had to attack with two people.

As for game advantage, we had no seer and half the players were inconvertible. Plus I got busted on my very first conversion attempt, so if I'd been easily killable the game would be over on the 4th night.

yeah, but if you died n4, DDS would have auto assumed your position as alpha wolf

 

[devyn]

Thanks for the game SOV & dyachei!

That was definitely a very frustrating game.... when I got converted and realised what a tough spot the wolves were in I didn't think we would make it this far and if the villagers hadn't used up their kill well I think we would have been toast soon... we got lucky people decided not to investigate killing Samoa further...

We figured Chillbo would be hard to kill and also that more people would have to die before he could, but seeing as I was going to be lynched soon and we were out of people to convert we thought, we figured we might as well try to kill him since there were 2 of us and the mirukuru....

 

[DVMDream]

I was thinking Samoa was a wolf for a bit. I even thought that she might need two people to kill her, but didn't mention it. Was going to after this night.

I hardly read any of this game because I was so busy. The write ups were too long, so I spent 99% of the game skimming and quickly picking up on things in PMs when I could.

I also had zero idea that someone could be discovered how they needed to be killed, that was never brought up or mentioned, otherwise I would have thought about it more.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

wasn't the only way to find alduin in the Skyrim game for the lissa character to investigate him? and then lissa died night 1?

Even without investigating Samoa that way, Chillbo almost figured it out himself...

In my result PM and one of the write ups, it said something to the effect that Samoa was injured, so that led me to believe that maybe she had to be attacked back to back nights or attacked by two people the same night. But then suspicion dropped off and I resigned myself to thinking she was some unkillable neutral character.

 

[DocEspana]

wasn't the only way to find alduin in the Skyrim game for the lissa character to investigate him? and then lissa died night 1?

Even without investigating Samoa that way, Chillbo almost figured it out himself...

No. could be investigated by lissa. Or by parthuunax. or by the fact that every seer power (and there were a few) would flat out fail on him. Plus he was just as suceptible to death as anyone else. Its the false identity, AND pretty unrealistic kill requiremtn (had to be targeted by TWO kill items at once), and a kill requirement that could be unable to ever be done if the wrong people died early.

 

[thedrjojo]

Which is why Team Arrow got to become a PM-ing group, so they could communicate.

And I actually thought I gave too much killing ability to team arrow. And I specifically told them in their roles to use their kills strategically as they would be crucial to the game. I felt bad they used it all up, but oh well.

Understandable.

Getting the villagers will kill ability to not just waste them, or getting the villager seer to coordinate with the arrow seer, without any PMs makes it difficult.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

If devyn had gotten lynched instead, it could have changed EVERYTHING.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Worst
Game
Mechanic
Ever (and I dont say this as a non-wolf. I say this as, you made a game-breaking mechanic and hid the only way to figure it out in a single person's power. .

it wasn't game breaking until the villagers used up the ton of kills they had.

And revealing a "recruiter" to team arrow anytime she tried to recruit them was a big boon to the villagers.

If y'all had decided she was a wolf… you would have figured out how to kill her if you thought hard about it.
Like.. "geez she is hard to kill, wonder why we have all this killing ability".

Whatever.

 

[DocEspana]

In my result PM and one of the write ups, it said something to the effect that Samoa was injured, so that led me to believe that maybe she had to be attacked back to back nights or attacked by two people the same night. But then suspicion dropped off and I resigned myself to thinking she was some unkillable neutral character.

She was attacked in 3 consecutive rounds IIRC. A day, a night, and a day.

 

[Flim Flam Man]

Wolves got lucky I was rezzed right away too.

 

[DVMDream]

Which is why Team Arrow got to become a PM-ing group, so they could communicate.

And I actually thought I gave too much killing ability to team arrow. And I specifically told them in their roles to use their kills strategically as they would be crucial to the game. I felt bad they used it all up, but oh well.

We seriously just found the last member of Arrow not that long ago. We could not all communicate immediately and had to keep updating people about what we knew as time went on. Would have been better if we had started off able to talk.

 

[devyn]

If devyn had gotten lynched instead, it could have changed EVERYTHING.

yes it probably would have.... which is why I talked my way out of that paper bag

 

[DocEspana]

If devyn had gotten lynched instead, it could have changed EVERYTHING.

No... villagers lost because they ran out of kill abilities. Not because of the wolves making 5 kills in one night.

 

[StartingoverVet]

. Plus I got busted on my very first conversion attempt, so if I'd been easily killable the game would be over on the 4th night.

that is not true… dds would have auto converted if you were killed. (or whenever the first wolf was killed, or night 6).

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

it wasn't game breaking until the villagers used up the ton of kills they had.

And revealing a "recruiter" to team arrow anytime she tried to recruit them was a big boon to the villagers.

If y'all had decided she was a wolf… you would have figured out how to kill her if you thought hard about it.
Like.. "geez she is hard to kill, wonder why we have all this killing ability".

Whatever.

I noted the part about being strategic, but I took that to mean there were several wolfs who could only be killed at night.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

No... villagers lost because they ran out of kill abilities. Not because of the wolves making 5 kills in one night.

It could have changed our strategy in using our kills, though.

 

[thedrjojo]

No. could be investigated by lissa. Or by parthuunax. or by the fact that every seer power (and there were a few) would flat out fail on him. Plus he was just as suceptible to death as anyone else. Its the false identity, AND pretty unrealistic kill requiremtn (had to be targeted by TWO kill items at once), and a kill requirement that could be unable to ever be done if the wrong people died early.

SOV had redundancy as well. If Carbon died early, there was someone (LIS i believe?) that would have taken over her role...

And to DVMD/DPMD, i dont think its SOV's fault that team Arrow wasn't fully aware of Carbon's skill... when I was talking with DocE, he claimed Carbon was never told that, but she definitely hasn't denied that she knew she could do it, so, again, communication breakdown seemed to do the villagers in...

 

[DocEspana]

it wasn't game breaking until the villagers used up the ton of kills they had.

And revealing a "recruiter" to team arrow anytime she tried to recruit them was a big boon to the villagers.

If y'all had decided she was a wolf… you would have figured out how to kill her if you thought hard about it.
Like.. "geez she is hard to kill, wonder why we have all this killing ability".

Whatever.

Disagree 100% man. This is the kind of nonsense that everyone was bitching about just prior to my last game going live. That they are afraid of a game which will forget its WW and just be about the esoteric rules made up by the mod that totally disregard how WW works. Took 2 games for Fonz's warning to come true.

 

[StartingoverVet]

We seriously just found the last member of Arrow not that long ago. We could not all communicate immediately and had to keep updating people about what we knew as time went on. Would have been better if we had started off able to talk.

but there was a balance.. If you were so powerful at the beginning, Samoa would have no chance.

As team arrow gained strength, so would the numbers of wolves increase….

Wolves had a very difficult job, especially with all the criminals somehow being role revealed right at the beginning.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

Disagree 100% man. This is the kind of nonsense that everyone was bitching about just prior to my last game going live. That they are afraid of a game which will forget its WW and just be about the esoteric rules made up by the mod that totally disregard how WW works. Took 2 games for Fonz's warning to come true.

*hopes DocE still signs up for his game that is WW only in name*

 

[Samoa]

Yeah there was definite feeling on the wolves side that this game was unwinnable, with the amount of firepower and investigative ability on team arrow's side, and our inability to convert anyone who had a choice.

We basically managed to kill people just as they were about to crack the game. But really, SOV is right: we didn't win; the villagers lost.

 

[thedrjojo]

We seriously just found the last member of Arrow not that long ago. We could not all communicate immediately and had to keep updating people about what we knew as time went on. Would have been better if we had started off able to talk.

that would have been way too powerful for a group of linked villagers.... the advantage the wolves have in knowledge would have been moot (even though there were minimal wolves in the game).

 

[DocEspana]

SOV had redundancy as well. If Carbon died early, there was someone (LIS i believe?) that would have taken over her role...

And to DVMD/DPMD, i dont think its SOV's fault that team Arrow wasn't fully aware of Carbon's skill... when I was talking with DocE, he claimed Carbon was never told that, but she definitely hasn't denied that she knew she could do it, so, again, communication breakdown seemed to do the villagers in...

Its not the unseerability. Team arrow seems to foget, but I was saying samoa was merlyn from the moment the DPMD conversion failed and made them seer her because i was convinced she was still merlyn. And made a comment before I died that I think her seer results were false. I dont think anyone in team arrow didnt have a pretty good idea she was merlyn. But all of the wolves were resistent to kills at night (slade. deadshot. merlyn. No clue on the others since we didnt try with them). And every time you find *one* that is resistant to night kill you go "oh well it must be for the other one". It was for none of them, since they were all resistant to night kills (not necessarily something SOV planned out since devyns was apparently an ability from her prior life). But no one ever honestly thinks, unless chillbo is a WW genius that was not reflected in the Arrow private chats, that you need to use two night kills at the same time on one person. Or that the game can end when winning 7-2 because you've run out of a random ability.

Also wasnt LIS the *double agent*. So our only other way besides carbon, is someone who would have either been dead, or also a wolf.

 

[thedrjojo]

Interesting fact: wolves have won the past 6 WW games.

who won doce's game?

 

[StartingoverVet]

Disagree 100% man. This is the kind of nonsense that everyone was bitching about just prior to my last game going live. That they are afraid of a game which will forget its WW and just be about the esoteric rules made up by the mod that totally disregard how WW works. Took 2 games for Fonz's warning to come true.

Yeah, when you have a game mechanic, it is a classic, but if you played in your own games you would hate it.

The game was pretty evenly balanced, and it really could have gone either way right to the last day. I am pleased.
If I would have changed one thing I wouldn't have given Carbon the ability to seer role (I added that in the last minute) so it was more obvious what her ability was… it certainly wasn't "hidden" it was a main part of her role… and I backed it up so it wouldn't be lost.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

who won doce's game?

I guess I should have specified pre-vet.

 

[Lupin21]

Ok. I will have to have a bit of input. Samoa had to be something other than regular villager and wasn't a part of Team Arrow. So she had to have her own category, whether that be neutral or chaos even as yao fei since she had the ability to recruit. She was next to impossible to kill, and that in and of itself would have made me look into how she could die. That's just me though. At the end, and before DVMD shocked me by voting for me, I figured Samoa had to be merlyn simply because we knew who everyone else was and that led me to believe maybe all the converts had to be killed then she would be vulnerable. I should have said that, but was so focused and confused by DVMD voting for me and saying Cydia was a normal villager I didn't go there. And by refusing to believe devyn was deadshot was inexcusable.

 

[DocEspana]

but there was a balance.. If you were so powerful at the beginning, Samoa would have no chance.

As team arrow gained strength, so would the numbers of wolves increase….

Wolves had a very difficult job, especially with all the criminals somehow being role revealed right at the beginning.

No one appreciated me figuring that out so quickly. I knew it was relevant early. But I want some credit for figuring out the mechanic by night 3 or 4.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Its not the unseerability. Team arrow seems to foget, but I was saying samoa was merlyn from the moment the DPMD conversion failed and made them seer her because i was convinced she was still merlyn. And made a comment before I died that I think her seer results were false. I dont think anyone in team arrow didnt have a pretty good idea she was merlyn. But all of the wolves were resistent to kills at night (slade. deadshot. merlyn. No clue on the others since we didnt try with them). And every time you find *one* that is resistant to night kill you go "oh well it must be for the other one". It was for none of them, since they were all resistant to night kills (not necessarily something SOV planned out since devyns was apparently an ability from her prior life). But no one ever honestly thinks, unless chillbo is a WW genius that was not reflected in the Arrow private chats, that you need to use two night kills at the same time on one person. Or that the game can end when winning 7-2 because you've run out of a random ability.

Also wasnt LIS the *double agent*. So our only other way besides carbon, is someone who would have either been dead, or also a wolf.

no offense to Carbon… but if you were that sure that Samoa was merlyn, and a member of your group had the ability to check how to kill a wolf, then everything worked fine. There was no excuse not to check her out..

But Carbon didn't seem to think Samoa was a wolf. So perhaps your communication abilities lost the game for the villagers.

 

[DocEspana]

Ok. I will have to have a bit of input. Samoa had to be something other than regular villager and wasn't a part of Team Arrow. So she had to have her own category, whether that be neutral or chaos even as yao fei since she had the ability to recruit. She was next to impossible to kill, and that in and of itself would have made me look into how she could die. That's just me though. At the end, and before DVMD shocked me by voting for me, I figured Samoa had to be merlyn simply because we knew who everyone else was and that led me to believe maybe all the converts had to be killed then she would be vulnerable. I should have said that, but was so focused and confused by DVMD voting for me and saying Cydia was a normal villager I didn't go there. And by refusing to believe devyn was deadshot was inexcusable.

The other thing is that, for whatever reason we did never find out carbon could seer how to kill people. That would ahve been game changing to know.

 

[DVMDream]

Its not the unseerability. Team arrow seems to foget, but I was saying samoa was merlyn from the moment the DPMD conversion failed and made them seer her because i was convinced she was still merlyn. And made a comment before I died that I think her seer results were false. I dont think anyone in team arrow didnt have a pretty good idea she was merlyn. But all of the wolves were resistent to kills at night (slade. deadshot. merlyn. No clue on the others since we didnt try with them). And every time you find *one* that is resistant to night kill you go "oh well it must be for the other one". It was for none of them, since they were all resistant to night kills (not necessarily something SOV planned out since devyns was apparently an ability from her prior life). But no one ever honestly thinks, unless chillbo is a WW genius that was not reflected in the Arrow private chats, that you need to use two night kills at the same time on one person. Or that the game can end when winning 7-2 because you've run out of a random ability.

Also wasnt LIS the *double agent*. So our only other way besides carbon, is someone who would have either been dead, or also a wolf.

Yeah, I thought Samoa was probably a wolf for a while, but I was thinking something more like last wolf remaining, not need to be killed by two members. That didn't really come to my mind until this current night when it was too late.

I find having an unseerable and unkillable wolf in the same player just a bit too much power for that one person. And if one of our killers died then what? Did team Arrow instantly lose? We only had two people that could kill at night so if one of them died then we were kind of SOL.

 

[DocEspana]

no offense to Carbon… but if you were that sure that Samoa was merlyn, and a member of your group had the ability to check how to kill a wolf, then everything worked fine. There was no excuse not to check her out..

But Carbon didn't seem to think Samoa was a wolf. So perhaps your communication abilities lost the game for the villagers.

We had no clue samoa could do that. We all agreed she needed to die and no one seemed to know how to kill her.

 

[StartingoverVet]

No one appreciated me figuring that out so quickly. I knew it was relevant early. But I want some credit for figuring out the mechanic by night 3 or 4.

You did a good job with that I admit.
And I didn;t realize Protoman was similar to this game (I didn't play it) for the wolves.. so you seemed to have better insight than most.

 

[thedrjojo]

Its not the unseerability. Team arrow seems to foget, but I was saying samoa was merlyn from the moment the DPMD conversion failed and made them seer her because i was convinced she was still merlyn. And made a comment before I died that I think her seer results were false. I dont think anyone in team arrow didnt have a pretty good idea she was merlyn. But all of the wolves were resistent to kills at night (slade. deadshot. merlyn. No clue on the others since we didnt try with them). And every time you find *one* that is resistant to night kill you go "oh well it must be for the other one". It was for none of them, since they were all resistant to night kills (not necessarily something SOV planned out since devyns was apparently an ability from her prior life). But no one ever honestly thinks, unless chillbo is a WW genius that was not reflected in the Arrow private chats, that you need to use two night kills at the same time on one person. Or that the game can end when winning 7-2 because you've run out of a random ability.

Also wasnt LIS the *double agent*. So our only other way besides carbon, is someone who would have either been dead, or also a wolf.

There was a unique aspect of her role that is unusual to all WW games I've ever been in. If she didn't realize that, and then didn't share it to team arrow, or team arrow didn't make it a major concern, you can't blame SOV.

I dunno. Should there have been more than 1 way to kill her? maybe. Do i blame team arrow for not realizing the key aspect of her role, and the spent kill attempts, as a big reason for the loss? sure. But I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

 

[DVMDream]

Ok. I will have to have a bit of input. Samoa had to be something other than regular villager and wasn't a part of Team Arrow. So she had to have her own category, whether that be neutral or chaos even as yao fei since she had the ability to recruit. She was next to impossible to kill, and that in and of itself would have made me look into how she could die. That's just me though. At the end, and before DVMD shocked me by voting for me, I figured Samoa had to be merlyn simply because we knew who everyone else was and that led me to believe maybe all the converts had to be killed then she would be vulnerable. I should have said that, but was so focused and confused by DVMD voting for me and saying Cydia was a normal villager I didn't go there. And by refusing to believe devyn was deadshot was inexcusable.

I was about to switch to devyn when she said she was unconvertable as I know that was a load of horse****, but SOV had closed the lynch before I could.

 

[Lupin21]

The other thing is that, for whatever reason we did never find out carbon could seer how to kill people. That would ahve been game changing to know.

Agreed.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Yeah, I thought Samoa was probably a wolf for a while, but I was thinking something more like last wolf remaining, not need to be killed by two members. That didn't really come to my mind until this current night when it was too late.

I find having an unseerable and unkillable wolf in the same player just a bit too much power for that one person. And if one of our killers died then what? Did team Arrow instantly lose? We only had two people that could kill at night so if one of them died then we were kind of SOL.

If Felcity was killed, then Sara joined you as a killer.
If DPMD died, then Diggle got a kill.
And you had villager killers as well. And you had cyndia who you could have asked to try to kill.
You couldn't lose the Arrow till late in the game, so you weren't losing there.

I tried to make sure that wouldn't happen.

 

[DocEspana]

There was a unique aspect of her role that is unusual to all WW games I've ever been in. If she didn't realize that, and then didn't share it to team arrow, or team arrow didn't make it a major concern, you can't blame SOV.

I dunno. Should there have been more than 1 way to kill her? maybe. Do i blame team arrow for not realizing the key aspect of her role, and the spent kill attempts, as a big reason for the loss? sure. But I wasn't there, so I can't judge.

We werent given her role description. So we asked her what she did and she said seer roles. I didnt even realize that it was an ability she had until you told me post-mortem

 

[DocEspana]

If Felcity was killed, then Sara joined you as a killer.
If DPMD died, then Diggle got a kill.
And you had villager killers as well. And you had cyndia who you could have asked to try to kill.
You couldn't lose the Arrow till late in the game, so you weren't losing there.

I tried to make sure that wouldn't happen.

But Sara was a traitor. and we would have had to rely on her to out Samoa, unless Im getting roles mixed up

 

[StartingoverVet]

I was about to switch to devyn when she said she was unconvertable as I know that was a load of horse****, but SOV had closed the lynch before I could.

I closed at noon as I said I would.

It was a long messed up lynch vote because of SDN. But it didn't seem like anyone was doing anything so I saw no reason to extend again.

 

[Lupin21]

I was about to switch to devyn when she said she was unconvertable as I know that was a load of horse****, but SOV had closed the lynch before I could.

It shouldn't have taken her saying that to make you lynch her. Criminals were being converted left and right. You guys had the ability to seer and even though Doc and told you guys I was working with him, decided to forego common sense and just lynch me instead of going with the safe play.

 

[StartingoverVet]

But Sara was a traitor. and we would have had to rely on her to out Samoa, unless Im getting roles mixed up

She wasn't necessarily a traitor. She was just convertible. Like most people usually are. Nothing new there.

 

[DVMDream]

If Felcity was killed, then Sara joined you as a killer.
If DPMD died, then Diggle got a kill.
And you had villager killers as well. And you had cyndia who you could have asked to try to kill.
You couldn't lose the Arrow till late in the game, so you weren't losing there.

I tried to make sure that wouldn't happen.

But Sara could have been converted to wolf, correct? So then what?

Also, if dpmd was killed and diggle gets one kill how are we supposed to figure out that oh we need to use that on Samoa??? Especially since she is unseerable.

I get having a difficult to kill wolf and an unseerable wolf, but combining the two is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

 

[thedrjojo]

The other thing is that, for whatever reason we did never find out carbon could seer how to kill people. That would ahve been game changing to know.

Yeah, I thought Samoa was probably a wolf for a while, but I was thinking something more like last wolf remaining, not need to be killed by two members. That didn't really come to my mind until this current night when it was too late.

I find having an unseerable and unkillable wolf in the same player just a bit too much power for that one person. And if one of our killers died then what? Did team Arrow instantly lose? We only had two people that could kill at night so if one of them died then we were kind of SOL.

We had no clue samoa could do that. We all agreed she needed to die and no one seemed to know how to kill her.

Then blame carbon it seems....

Samoa wasn't unseerable, just very difficult and maybe unreasonably seerable, but it seems SOV built the mechanisms to require people to stick to it (with Nyanko getting to use her skill for more information each night).

Samoa flew under the radar, and while everyone is claiming they never trusted her, they got distracted elsewhere...

 

[Samoa]

Wow so it actually worked to our advantage to let Carbon and dpmd live.

You have no idea (well, SOV does) how many times we considered killing both of them, and decided someone else was a higher priority/likelihood of success