BCOM vs MUCOM

[bachelor1]

Sooo I have recently being accepted into BCOM and MUCOM. I plan to specialize and go into orthopedics so I want to go to the school that gives me the best opportunity to do so. I realize that BCOM is a new school but fact that they are producing numerous ACGME residency positions is quite appealing. MUCOM is a bit older but I got the vibe from my interview that their goal to produce primary care physicians. What are y'alls thoughts and insights?

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[DoctorSynthesis]

Sooo I have recently being accepted into BCOM and MUCOM. I plan to specialize and go into orthopedics so I want to go to the school that gives me the best opportunity to do so. I realize that BCOM is a new school but fact that they are producing numerous ACGME residency positions is quite appealing. MUCOM is a bit older but I got the vibe from my interview that their goal to produce primary care physicians. What are y'alls thoughts and insights?

Mucom.

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

Sooo I have recently being accepted into BCOM and MUCOM. I plan to specialize and go into orthopedics so I want to go to the school that gives me the best opportunity to do so. I realize that BCOM is a new school but fact that they are producing numerous ACGME residency positions is quite appealing. MUCOM is a bit older but I got the vibe from my interview that their goal to produce primary care physicians. What are y'alls thoughts and insights?

Personally I'd choose MUCOM

 

[docbsb2015]

MUCOM

 

[Dustbowl12]

I would like to see why people are saying MUCOM. MUCOM is a great program but if you are desiring to specialize and specifically go into ortho I would go to BCOM. They have created 15 ACGME ortho positions already and have plans to expand this number. You will be able to do core rotations at the residency affiliated teaching hospital that has ortho positions and will have an opportunity to showcase yourself. Further, the Dean and the school itself at BCOM emphasizes specialty medicine rather than primary care. In your situation I would attend BCOM

 

[DrBowtie]

I would like to see why people are saying MUCOM. MUCOM is a great program but if you are desiring to specialize and specifically go into ortho I would go to BCOM. They have created 15 ACGME ortho positions already and have plans to expand this number. You will be able to do core rotations at the residency affiliated teaching hospital that has ortho positions and will have an opportunity to showcase yourself. Further, the Dean and the school itself at BCOM emphasizes specialty medicine rather than primary care. In your situation I would attend BCOM

They have three positions per year. You either don't understand or being purposefully misleading.

 

[Dustbowl12]

They have three positions per year. You either don't understand or being purposefully misleading.

Their website says they have established 15 positions in ortho, by 2020 it will be 15, no? Can you explain?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Their website says they have established 15 positions in ortho, by 2020 it will be 15, no? Can you explain?

Probably 15 residents 3 per year. 5 years at 3 per year = 15

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I would like to see why people are saying MUCOM. MUCOM is a great program but if you are desiring to specialize and specifically go into ortho I would go to BCOM. They have created 15 ACGME ortho positions already and have plans to expand this number. You will be able to do core rotations at the residency affiliated teaching hospital that has ortho positions and will have an opportunity to showcase yourself. Further, the Dean and the school itself at BCOM emphasizes specialty medicine rather than primary care. In your situation I would attend BCOM

The whole point of bcom is fm in new Mexico

 

[Dustbowl12]

The whole point of bcom is fm in new Mexico

No it isn't. The dean openly says that PCPs can be found through mid level providers like NPs or PAs in the region but that specialists are missing in the area and that the school emphasizes specialties over primary care. They are still creating primary care slots like mad but are also creating competitive positions

 

[OrdinaryDO]

The whole point of bcom is fm in new Mexico

This is definitely not the case. They are openly promoting specialties, although every school possibly promotes primary care to some extent.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

No it isn't. The dean openly says that PCPs can be found through mid level providers like NPs or PAs in the region but that specialists are missing in the area and that the school emphasizes specialties over primary care. They are still creating primary care slots like mad but are also creating competitive positions

Np/PA replace MD/do is a joke.

Btw point 5:http://bcomnm.org/about-bcom/the-college/mission-vision-guiding-principles/

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Np/PA replace MD/do is a joke.

Btw point 5:http://bcomnm.org/about-bcom/the-college/mission-vision-guiding-principles/

I understand why you would be inclined to believe primary care is the vision for BCOM, since you did cite a link straight from BCOM, but during the interview day the dean expanded on the mission and outlook of physician shortages in New Mexico - to paraphrase the dean, there is a major shortage in primary care physicians, but there is even more of a demand for specialists in rural and urban areas of New Mexico. This came straight from the horses mouth and was reiterated numerous times throughout the day.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I understand why you would be inclined to believe primary care is the vision for BCOM, since you did cite a link straight from BCOM, but during the interview day the dean expanded on the mission and outlook of physician shortages in New Mexico - to paraphrase the dean, there is a major shortage in primary care physicians, but there is even more of a demand for specialists in rural and urban areas of New Mexico. This came straight from the horses mouth and was reiterated numerous times throughout the day.

This dean also opened up a for profit medical school and thinks NPs/PAs are a great idea. This dean also wrote an article blasting for profit medical education and proceeded to open a for profit medical school. Clearly he is double talking his own website. I'm sorry I'm not willing to put down 70k a year/4 years on this sleezeballs school based on something he said. His word means nothing. He is trying to make it seems like his 3 ortho spots is 15 and is tricking people like dusty over there. You got 3 spots for a class that is trying to specialize (clearly that's what he is recruiting). Those odds aren't good and your also the first class of an unknown for profit medical school. Not recomending this scool.


@AlteredScale I might need some calming down!

 

[deleted719840]

The board score plays a bigger factor to match into a competitive residency like orthopedic surgery. Both schools provide resources you need to do so, it's really on you.

BCOM may sound very promising, but the smarter and better choice is MUCOM. Don't throw away your sweet lemon for a beautiful apple, just to find out the apple has worms and spiders in there.

 

[Dustbowl12]

This dean also opened up a for profit medical school and thinks NPs/PAs are a great idea. This dean also wrote an article blasting for profit medical education and proceeded to open a for profit medical school. Clearly he is double talking his own website. I'm sorry I'm not willing to put down 70k a year/4 years on this sleezeballs school based on something he said. His word means nothing. He is trying to make it seems like his 3 ortho spots is 15 and is tricking people like dusty over there. You got 3 spots for a class that is trying to specialize (clearly that's what he is recruiting). Those odds aren't good and your also the first class of an unknown for profit medical school. Not recomending this scool.


@AlteredScale I might need some calming down!

LOL, post speaks for itself. real mature

 

[AlteredScale]

MUCOM has so far hired faculty that, IMO, are highly highly impressive (faculty who have trained at Harvard and have active NIH research grants and/or previous experience as professors at MD schools). They came to impress and so far they have in my eyes (just my opinion, perhaps the faculty at BCOM will impress you more, and that's fine).

BCOM will be required to open up GME, but how many spots and how many specialties will come out of that will be dependent on a variety of factors in a mess of AOA approval and the subsequent determination if they will apply for ACGME accreditation. I don't see any trouble with BCOM opening up multiple specialties, COCA keeps a watchful eye on this aspect.

Obv as a medical school and as the dean of new medical school you want to impress and reassure the potential students in interview process to come there instead of another medical school and you will say whatever you need to say. "Physician shortage" is a buzz word that has been used time and time again to entice students. Almost every school MD or DO will say something the like of this. I don't take it seriously anymore.

Both DO programs will give you a good education no doubt. If you have some tie to New Mexico or some desire to serve that popuation, go there. If not, go to MUCOM.

Another big thing you want to consider is to see if there will be available research opps in ortho. At this point in time, NEITHER school has any any active NIH grants specific to ortho research. So, the alternative is to see if there is another research inst near the area you can do this at and/or if the clinicl sites you wil rotate at has an ortho department that has active research output. BCOM is affiliated with a state universty with active faculty.

Lots of things to consider and between these two schools, I can't really tell you to choose which one to go to. It's up to you!

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

MUCOM has so far hired faculty that, IMO, are highly highly impressive (faculty who have trained at Harvard and have active NIH research grants and/or previous experience as professors at MD schools). They came to impress and so far they have in my eyes (just my opinion, perhaps the faculty at BCOM will impress you more, and that's fine).

BCOM will be required to open up GME, but how many spots and how many specialties will come out of that will be dependent on a variety of factors in a mess of AOA approval and the subsequent determination if they will apply for ACGME accreditation. I don't see any trouble with BCOM opening up multiple specialties, COCA keeps a watchful eye on this aspect.

Obv as a medical school and as the dean of new medical school you want to impress and reassure the potential students in interview process to come there instead of another medical school and you will say whatever you need to say. "Physician shortage" is a buzz word that has been used time and time again to entice students. Almost every school MD or DO will say something the like of this. I don't take it seriously anymore.

Both DO programs will give you a good education no doubt. If you have some tie to New Mexico or some desire to serve that popuation, go there. If not, go to MUCOM.

Another big thing you want to consider is to see if there will be available research opps in ortho. At this point in time, NEITHER school has any any active NIH grants specific to ortho research. So, the alternative is to see if there is another research inst near the area you can do this at and/or if the clinicl sites you wil rotate at has an ortho department that has active research output. BCOM is affiliated with a state universty with active faculty.

Lots of things to consider and between these two schools, I can't really tell you to choose which one to go to. It's up to you!

Just like AlteredScale said.. if you have some tie to NM then go to BCOM if not, go to MU-COM for all the reasons stated in this thread.

 

[DrBowtie]

Their website says they have established 15 positions in ortho, by 2020 it will be 15, no? Can you explain?

Probably 15 residents 3 per year. 5 years at 3 per year = 15

This. They will have 15 positions per year. 3 PGY 5 spots, 3 PGY 4 spots, etc

They aren't lying, but it's misleading especially to the uninformed.

 

[AlteredScale]

For what it's worth too, this ortho program everyone is raving about is in a 168 bed hospital with 7 faculty. They don't plan on applying for ACGME accred (so its an AOA progam) until 2017. I have no clue how seven faculty will be able to run the show. But yes, stating 15 positions without stating how long it would take to get those positions and that it was actually 3 positions (because you can have more residents than faculty in a GME program) is a little odd.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

LOL, post speaks for itself. real mature

I just don't understand how you are so excited about a dishonest school. It's brand new, for profit, and deceiving and your really excited about it. It's the worst medical school in the united States. Dead last with cnu and liberty.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Agreed as most posters above me, MUCOM. It has a really good rep for a relatively new school.

BCOM is appealing to those who want to practice in the NM/SW area of the country. Seems like a very promising program and has potential to have the rep MUCOM has developed (strongest of the "newer" schools).

I also think the proximity to other medical institutions in an urban environment like MUCOM can provide more opportunities for ortho researc

Orthopedics is an interest of mine as well. Just understand you need to do very well on your boards (600+ COMLEX scores, 240-250 Step scores) and try to do above average in school (Top 1/3 of the class). It's a tough field to break into but if you can hit those board scores and above average grades, you may be able to land plenty of interviews.

 

[bachelor1]

Thank you so much for those that have put their input in! I am currently leaning toward BCOM bc it is close to home and I was born and have lived in an underserved country.

 

[NurWollen]

Any med school dean who supports NP's and PA's replacing MD's/DO's in primary care... shouldn't be a med school dean. Sounds like he is recruiting. Attracting students by saying "we are all about specializing." Remember, it costs absolutely nothing to say that.

The school you attend has no say in whether you specialize or go into primary care. I would go to MUCOM. Having upper classmen is invaluable in a way I don't think people understand until they start med school. Also, MUCOM has the support and assistance of its state's major health system. BCOM hasn't even opened its first class yet and is already trying to expand to Montana.

 

[NurWollen]

Where are all these residencies everyone keeps talking about BCOM starting? I can't find them on FREIDA.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

This dean also opened up a for profit medical school and thinks NPs/PAs are a great idea. This dean also wrote an article blasting for profit medical education and proceeded to open a for profit medical school. Clearly he is double talking his own website. I'm sorry I'm not willing to put down 70k a year/4 years on this sleezeballs school based on something he said. His word means nothing. He is trying to make it seems like his 3 ortho spots is 15 and is tricking people like dusty over there. You got 3 spots for a class that is trying to specialize (clearly that's what he is recruiting). Those odds aren't good and your also the first class of an unknown for profit medical school. Not recomending this scool.


@AlteredScale I might need some calming down!

I just don't understand how you are so excited about a dishonest school. It's brand new, for profit, and deceiving and your really excited about it. It's the worst medical school in the united States. Dead last with cnu and liberty.

If you honestly think this is the case, then you have not been following the BCOM story. Everything you are complaining about and ranting over has been explained in exhaustive detail in a manner that makes perfect sense. The dean fully explains his reasoning for doing what he is doing. You cannot ridicule a college that has yet to have the opportunity to prove itself - you obviously have something against this college for who knows what reason, but it sounds personal. I would do a little research before continuing this conversation, because your information is outdated. Take it from those of us who have been to the interview and had the opportunity to ask specific questions.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Any med school dean who supports NP's and PA's replacing MD's/DO's in primary care... shouldn't be a med school dean. Sounds like he is recruiting. Attracting students by saying "we are all about specializing." Remember, it costs absolutely nothing to say that.

The school you attend has no say in whether you specialize or go into primary care. I would go to MUCOM. Having upper classmen is invaluable in a way I don't think people understand until they start med school. Also, MUCOM has the support and assistance of its state's major health system. BCOM hasn't even opened its first class yet and is already trying to expand to Montana.

He never said this. Don't be fooled by a single SDN post, the dean never said this during the interview....

Edit: BCOM is not trying to expand...this is yet another misinformed post. The BCOM investors, the Burrell family, are looking to invest in another medical school in Montana..this is not an "expansion" of BCOM..Please quit with these posts.

 

[Dustbowl12]

LOL at the misinformation, BCOM is not expanding

I just don't understand how you are so excited about a dishonest school. It's brand new, for profit, and deceiving and your really excited about it. It's the worst medical school in the united States. Dead last with cnu and liberty.

hahahaha okay

 

[kenjixshadow]

Ppl here are arguing over something OP did not ask for.

OP, straight to the point, you want ortho, correct? You'll have to fight for it and prepare to work your ass off from day 1. Neither of these schools can give you ortho, it is up to you.
From an inside source by a senior ortho resident, only 1 DO matched into ACGME ortho program in 2014-2015 cycle. This cycle is even worse -- one MD student with research experience + published + ~240 on USMLE 1 + high pass on away rotations DID NOT receive one interview invite before Thanksgiving, this person probably received some after Thanksgiving but the chance to match is low as the cycle is very competitive b/c multiple applicants go on more interviews and don't cancel any. Therefore, your chance lies more with future ACGME accredited AOA programs. AOA programs split into two types: Board heavy or IDGAF about your boards -- there are more board heavy programs such as Des Peres, Toledo, Doctors, Harrisburg, Broward, Corvallis, etc. So really, it only comes down to your boards score if you truly want to be competitive. I'm not talking about 500s or 600s, but 700s range on the COMLEX. No surprises there, the most competitive students would gun hard for the highest board scores. Face time is very important in AOA programs, you'll have time to do away rotations with both schools. Onto research opportunity, we're not talking about just any clinical research here, but specifically ortho. As aforementioned discussion above, neither school has any active ortho research going on, so you will have to reach out to close by institutions. You won't get any research at MUCOM. IU students will be preferentially given the work before you and guess what? There are over thousand IU med students. They will get hooked up with any ortho project before you can cold call and get your hand on one. You'll be more likely to get research with BCOM via affiliated state university. One thing I'd like to point out, MUCOM is notoriously well known to push for primary care as it is the school mission. Based on that and other mentioned presentations, I'd take BCOM if I were in your position.

 

[NurWollen]

He never said this. Don't be fooled by a single SDN post, the dean never said this during the interview....

Edit: BCOM is not trying to expand...this is yet another misinformed post. The BCOM investors, the Burrell family, are looking to invest in another medical school in Montana..this is not an "expansion" of BCOM..Please quit with these posts.

Sorry if I came off as abrasive. BCOM could very well turn out to be a great school. I hope it does. And you're right, just because someone on SDN said the dean said something doesn't mean the dean actually said that. I'm wary of for- profit schools, but then again, RVU seams to be a decent school, so hopefully this will turn out the same way.

I was a little put off by the insinuation that primary care doctors are replaceable by mid levels. There seems to be a pervasive attitude among some specialists and some med students that primary care is beneath them, that it is inferior to the subspecialties. That's just not true, so when someone hints at that way of thinking, I get a little snarky. You're saying that the dean never said that, so it's probably all for naught anyway.

 

[NurWollen]

Ppl here are arguing over something OP did not ask for.

OP, straight to the point, you want ortho, correct? You'll have to fight for it and prepare to work your ass off from day 1. Neither of these schools can give you ortho, it is up to you.
From an inside source by a senior ortho resident, only 1 DO matched into ACGME ortho program in 2014-2015 cycle. This cycle is even worse -- one MD student with research experience + published + ~240 on USMLE 1 + high pass on away rotations DID NOT receive one interview invite before Thanksgiving, this person probably received some after Thanksgiving but the chance to match is low as the cycle is very competitive b/c multiple applicants go on more interviews and don't cancel any. Therefore, your chance lies more with future ACGME accredited AOA programs. AOA programs split into two types: Board heavy or IDGAF about your boards -- there are more board heavy programs such as Des Peres, Toledo, Doctors, Harrisburg, Broward, Corvallis, etc. So really, it only comes down to your boards score if you truly want to be competitive. I'm not talking about 500s or 600s, but 700s range on the COMLEX. No surprises there, the most competitive students would gun hard for the highest board scores. Face time is very important in AOA programs, you'll have time to do away rotations with both schools. Onto research opportunity, we're not talking about just any clinical research here, but specifically ortho. As aforementioned discussion above, neither school has any active ortho research going on, so you will have to reach out to close by institutions. You won't get any research at MUCOM. IU students will be preferentially given the work before you and guess what? There are over thousand IU med students. They will get hooked up with any ortho project before you can cold call and get your hand on one. You'll be more likely to get research with BCOM via affiliated state university. One thing I'd like to point out, MUCOM is notoriously well known to push for primary care as it is the school mission. Based on that and other mentioned presentations, I'd take BCOM if I were in your position.

The other thing the OP needs to consider is rotation quality. Whichever school gets him more opportunities to rotate with residents, will prepare him better to shine on audition rotations. I haven't a clue which of these two schools wins here, but it's something that the OP should research and consider.

 

[IslandStyle808]

They have three positions per year. You either don't understand or being purposefully misleading.

Their website says they have established 15 positions in ortho, by 2020 it will be 15, no? Can you explain?

Probably 15 residents 3 per year. 5 years at 3 per year = 15

Where are all these residencies everyone keeps talking about BCOM starting? I can't find them on FREIDA.

For what it's worth too, this ortho program everyone is raving about is in a 168 bed hospital with 7 faculty. They don't plan on applying for ACGME accred (so its an AOA progam) until 2017. I have no clue how seven faculty will be able to run the show. But yes, stating 15 positions without stating how long it would take to get those positions and that it was actually 3 positions (because you can have more residents than faculty in a GME program) is a little odd.

Not much of a fan of multi-posting, but we need to get the conversation flowing with more facts. So here is what is happing with the residencies. They currently have 108 AOA approved rotations, they are only planning on applying ACGME. So they are not at that stage of ACGME approval.

For those not familiar with the whole AOA residency thing here is the link.
http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm

Now as for the "where the programs?" This shows them AOA approved at least. (if the link doesn't work just use the pervious one and look under New Mexico)
http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...sionid=22CBC71C172F865CFC63C6656E0B9288.cf102

They only have the ortho spots approved for the AOA and as DrBowtie has alluded, it is 3 spots per year for a grand total of 15. The reason why he says this is because programs like this take around 3-5 students per year (15 is a ridiculously large number). This can be seen on the AOA site again. Look at the part that states "How many new trainees do you intend to recruit next year?" It states three. (If this link doesn't work look under both ortho and New Mexico on the first link)
http://opportunities.osteopathic.or...program_id=371856&hosp_id=371704&returnPage=1

The school is not just pushing primary care, but also specialties as well. It is a graduation requirement that they need to do a research project (not sure if it needs to result in publication).


Now for my take on the MUCOM vs. BCOM. I would be leaning towards MUCOM in this situation. You have no idea whether you will want to do ortho in the future and there is a lot of safety in attending MUCOM. The first being that you can take federal loans (BCOM will need 2 years). Sure there are private loans that can give competitive rates, but federal loans are locked at a certain interest rate (while private can be variable, people will argue with me on this point). You will also have delayed repayment options (I think IBR and PAYE can only be done with federal loans, not sure on this point). The second is that you have an idea of how the curriculum is laid out. The fact that this school has non-madatory and a s*** ton (7-8 months) of elective time is huge. BCOM could be offering this, but we don't know this for fact until the first class goes through 3 years. The third year rotations at MUCOM also seem solid as well (a large chunk of the clinical affiliation have residences underneath them).

MUCOM is the safer option at this point.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

If you honestly think this is the case, then you have not been following the BCOM story. Everything you are complaining about and ranting over has been explained in exhaustive detail in a manner that makes perfect sense. The dean fully explains his reasoning for doing what he is doing. You cannot ridicule a college that has yet to have the opportunity to prove itself - you obviously have something against this college for who knows what reason, but it sounds personal. I would do a little research before continuing this conversation, because your information is outdated. Take it from those of us who have been to the interview and had the opportunity to ask specific questions.

The reason is clear. The dean is deceptive, double talks, and a giant hypocrite. I have read the explanations and every time they are pitiful. I care about DO schools and I hate when they approve schools like bcom and liberty.

 

[docbsb2015]

Ppl here are arguing over something OP did not ask for.

OP, straight to the point, you want ortho, correct? You'll have to fight for it and prepare to work your ass off from day 1. Neither of these schools can give you ortho, it is up to you.
From an inside source by a senior ortho resident, only 1 DO matched into ACGME ortho program in 2014-2015 cycle. This cycle is even worse -- one MD student with research experience + published + ~240 on USMLE 1 + high pass on away rotations DID NOT receive one interview invite before Thanksgiving, this person probably received some after Thanksgiving but the chance to match is low as the cycle is very competitive b/c multiple applicants go on more interviews and don't cancel any. Therefore, your chance lies more with future ACGME accredited AOA programs. AOA programs split into two types: Board heavy or IDGAF about your boards -- there are more board heavy programs such as Des Peres, Toledo, Doctors, Harrisburg, Broward, Corvallis, etc. So really, it only comes down to your boards score if you truly want to be competitive. I'm not talking about 500s or 600s, but 700s range on the COMLEX. No surprises there, the most competitive students would gun hard for the highest board scores. Face time is very important in AOA programs, you'll have time to do away rotations with both schools. Onto research opportunity, we're not talking about just any clinical research here, but specifically ortho. As aforementioned discussion above, neither school has any active ortho research going on, so you will have to reach out to close by institutions. You won't get any research at MUCOM. IU students will be preferentially given the work before you and guess what? There are over thousand IU med students. They will get hooked up with any ortho project before you can cold call and get your hand on one. You'll be more likely to get research with BCOM via affiliated state university. One thing I'd like to point out, MUCOM is notoriously well known to push for primary care as it is the school mission. Based on that and other mentioned presentations, I'd take BCOM if I were in your position.

Your research bit isn't exactly true. Im a 1st year at Marian and it took me 1 email to an IU faculty and he invited me in to his lab to discuss research opportunities (a different field than ortho tho). Also, I am not exactly sure why everyone keeps saying Marian is notorious for pushing primary care onto students. Never at any point have I, nor anyone else I have talked to, felt pressure to pursue primary care.

 

[NurWollen]

Your research bit isn't exactly true. Im a 1st year at Marian and it took me 1 email to an IU faculty and he invited me in to his lab to discuss research opportunities (a different field than ortho tho). Also, I am not exactly sure why everyone keeps saying Marian is notorious for pushing primary care onto students. Never at any point have I, nor anyone else I have talked to, felt pressure to pursue primary care.

+1. Lots of schools talk about primary care, and emphasize it in their mission statements, and encourage their students to look into it. However, they have neither the means nor the desire to force anyone in to it.

 

[Dustbowl12]

The reason is clear. The dean is deceptive, double talks, and a giant hypocrite. I have read the explanations and every time they are pitiful. I care about DO schools and I hate when they approve schools like bcom and liberty.

Beyond hilarious that you consider a school with 100+ ACGME residency positions, rotations at teaching hospitals, a research requirement with state uni facilities in same breath as a program like liberty

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Beyond hilarious that you consider a school with 100+ ACGME residency positions, rotations at teaching hospitals, a research requirement with state uni facilities in same breath as a program like liberty

They aren't acgme residency positions yet, they PLAN to apply. Big difference.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Your research bit isn't exactly true. Im a 1st year at Marian and it took me 1 email to an IU faculty and he invited me in to his lab to discuss research opportunities (a different field than ortho tho). Also, I am not exactly sure why everyone keeps saying Marian is notorious for pushing primary care onto students. Never at any point have I, nor anyone else I have talked to, felt pressure to pursue primary care.

I never felt the primary care push that much from MUCOM. For instance, one student on SDN showed their elective schedule and they had a ton of elective time. This is helpful especially if one wants to match in a competitive field. I am more wary of schools that limit elective time and give exceptions to fields such as internal medicine, family medicine, and pediatrics.

Plus with MUCOM being in Indianapolis (with many hospitals, research institutions, etc.), it shouldn't be too hard to find research somewhere.

 

[docbsb2015]

I never felt the primary care push that much from MUCOM. For instance, one student on SDN showed their elective schedule and they had a ton of elective time. This is helpful especially if one wants to match in a competitive field. I am more wary of schools that limit elective time and give exceptions to fields such as internal medicine, family medicine, and pediatrics.

Plus with MUCOM being in Indianapolis (with many hospitals, research institutions, etc.), it shouldn't be too hard to find research somewhere.

He gets it. People, listen to the last sentence. Its Indianapolis. If your heart so desires research, you will find it. I promise.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

The reason is clear. The dean is deceptive, double talks, and a giant hypocrite. I have read the explanations and every time they are pitiful. I care about DO schools and I hate when they approve schools like bcom and liberty.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I highly doubt someone who is intelligent enough to do residency at Yale and sit on the board/chair of some pretty significant departments, has led his life by being deceptive and a hypocrite. If someone of your stature can notice such traits, then I am sure someone else with a little more training and wisdom would have caught on by now. If you don't like the guy, fine, but don't go spreading false and malicious information about another school or dean. You should go back and read the open letter the dean wrote to COCA/AOA and perhaps you will become a little less uniformed about how you two hold the same exact views. Careful, ignorance is bliss.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I highly doubt someone who is intelligent enough to do residency at Yale and sit on the board/chair of some pretty significant departments, has led his life by being deceptive and a hypocrite. If someone of your stature can notice such traits, then I am sure someone else with a little more training and wisdom would have caught on by now. If you don't like the guy, fine, but don't go spreading false and malicious information about another school or dean. You should go back and read the open letter the dean wrote to COCA/AOA and perhaps you will become a little less uniformed about how you two hold the same exact views. Careful, ignorance is bliss.

I read the letter and I love it. However, after penning it he went on to do EXACTLY what he was arguing against. And the fact he went to Yale means bumpkis. I'm not the only one who has caught on. Carson went to Yale and where has that got us? Jail makes you gay, pyramids are grain storage devices, homesexuality = beastilty. Trump went to upenn and that got us ideas like ban Muslims...

Beyond hilarious that you consider a school with 100+ ACGME residency positions, rotations at teaching hospitals, a research requirement with state uni facilities in same breath as a program like liberty

100 ACGME residencies? Wrong! Maybe down the line but at this point it's AOA resendecies that are planning to apply as ALL AOA resendecies will have to. If they dont apply they wouldn't exist.

Also if you really think that a medical school that has hospital affiliations is impressive that is pitiful. Thats about the bare minimum for accreditation. Those hospitals are by definition teaching. The fact they are doing research again means bumpkis! All medical school do research. Is it quality research and to what scale? The state university affiliation isagain deceptive. It's affiliated but not apart of. Like Vcom with viriginia tech its affiliated in terms of dining halls but as far as being apart of the university its seperate. Not to mention nmsu isn't exactly a research powerhouse!

Also a quick look those 100 residency position are in family med, internal med, psychiatry, sports med, plans for anesthesia and emergency medicine. And you got 3 orthopedic surgery spots. Not really specialization friendly.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I read the letter and I love it. However, after penning it he went on to do EXACTLY what he was arguing against. And the fact he went to Yale means bumpkis. I'm not the only one who has caught on. Carson went to Yale and where has that got us? Jail makes you gay, pyramids are grain storage devices, homesexuality = beastilty. Trump went to upenn and that got us ideas like ban Muslims...



100 ACGME residencies? Wrong! Maybe down the line but at this point it's AOA resendecies that are planning to apply as ALL AOA resendecies will have to. If they dont apply they wouldn't exist.

Also if you really think that a medical school that has hospital affiliations is impressive that is pitiful. Thats about the bare minimum for accreditation. Those hospitals are by definition teaching. The fact they are doing research again means bumpkis! All medical school do research. Is it quality research and to what scale? The state university affiliation isagain deceptive. It's affiliated but not apart of. Like Vcom with viriginia tech its affiliated in terms of dining halls but as far as being apart of the university its seperate. Not to mention nmsu isn't exactly a research powerhouse!

Also a quick look those 100 residency position are in family med, internal med, psychiatry, sports med, plans for anesthesia and emergency medicine. And you got 3 orthopedic surgery spots. Not really specialization friendly.

He has a perfectly good explanation for why he chose to open a for-profit school and to which the majority of people are siding with him on. His reasoning behind the his stance against for-profit schools is what was important in his stand against them, not the idea of the profit itself. What he has done is taken advantage of an opportunity to use wealthy investors to do good in a state that is in dire need of physicians NOW, not 10 years from now which would have been the earliest projected NFP date if everything went perfect. We have for profit hospitals..what are your views on those? What your opinion of this dean is yours alone, but it shows a flaw in character when you say things that are not true and hint a little towards defamation if you ask me. You cannot downplay he significance of a DO going to a Yale residency, either, so your examples are irrelevant. Your reference to Dr. Ben Carson is foolish. If you think Ben Carson did nothing then you must be ignorant to everything aside from his wild political and religious belief. His steps towards medical advancements are second to few. Like I said, I respect your opinions but please at least make them rational.

Your opposition to BCOM is hilariously flawed. Your data and opinions are not correct, the residency slots for BCOM will be ACGME accredited...they couldn't be AOA if you're pertaining to our class because we are the class of 2020... Downplaying the research going on here is ridiculous...now a powerhouse? Powerhouse research facilities are VERY FEW and FAR BETWEEN. NMSU has research and while for MD Schools your assessment of all institutions might be somewhat accurate, but as far as DO schools go that is not the case. It is rare for a DO school to do research, let alone REQUIRE IT. Anything else I can help clarify for you? You love to hate BCOM.

 

[AlteredScale]

Alright everyone calm down please.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Alright everyone calm down please.

I seem to have get on some people's nerve. Whoops!

He has a perfectly good explanation for why he chose to open a for-profit school and to which the majority of people are siding with him on. His reasoning behind the his stance against for-profit schools is what was important in his stand against them, not the idea of the profit itself. What he has done is taken advantage of an opportunity to use wealthy investors to do good in a state that is in dire need of physicians NOW, not 10 years from now which would have been the earliest projected NFP date if everything went perfect. We have for profit hospitals..what are your views on those? What your opinion of this dean is yours alone, but it shows a flaw in character when you say things that are not true and hint a little towards defamation if you ask me. You cannot downplay he significance of a DO going to a Yale residency, either, so your examples are irrelevant. Your reference to Dr. Ben Carson is foolish. If you think Ben Carson did nothing then you must be ignorant to everything aside from his wild political and religious belief. His steps towards medical advancements are second to few. Like I said, I respect your opinions but please at least make them rational.

Your opposition to BCOM is hilariously flawed. Your data and opinions are not correct, the residency slots for BCOM will be ACGME accredited...they couldn't be AOA if you're pertaining to our class because we are the class of 2020... Downplaying the research going on here is ridiculous...now a powerhouse? Powerhouse research facilities are VERY FEW and FAR BETWEEN. NMSU has research and while for MD Schools your assessment of all institutions might be somewhat accurate, but as far as DO schools go that is not the case. It is rare for a DO school to do research, let alone REQUIRE IT. Anything else I can help clarify for you? You love to hate BCOM.

That's a horrible cope out for, for profit education. If it isn't feasible don't create the school! I'm completely against for profit hospitals as its the reasons I will hate on Drexel. Honestly what's next university of Phoenix college of osteopathic medicine?

And the fact it's ACGME isn't impressive at all as all resendecies will be at that time. Medical schools/hospitals shouldn't have a profit motive. It makes my degree look bad that's why I hate these schools.

 

[EmergencyDO]

I seem to have get on some people's nerve. Whoops!



That's a horrible cope out for, for profit education. If it isn't feasible don't create the school! I'm completely against for profit hospitals as its the reasons I will hate on Drexel. Honestly what's next university of Phoenix college of osteopathic medicine?

And the fact it's ACGME isn't impressive at all as all resendecies will be at that time. Medical schools/hospitals shouldn't have a profit motive. It makes my degree look bad that's why I hate these schools.

At the end of the day, both schools will make you into great physicians. And I'm also pretty sure your sick patients won't give a rat's ass that you went to a for profit school, they just want you to alleviate them of their illness.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

At the end of the day, both schools will make you into great physicians. And I'm also pretty sure your sick patients won't give a rat's ass that you went to a for profit school, they just want you to alleviate them of their illness.

Resendecies will care though. Patients won't care if you went to aua lol.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I seem to have get on some people's nerve. Whoops!



That's a horrible cope out for, for profit education. If it isn't feasible don't create the school! I'm completely against for profit hospitals as its the reasons I will hate on Drexel. Honestly what's next university of Phoenix college of osteopathic medicine?

And the fact it's ACGME isn't impressive at all as all resendecies will be at that time. Medical schools/hospitals shouldn't have a profit motive. It makes my degree look bad that's why I hate these schools.

Good think the stats of profit or NFP doesn't matter. You obviously have a bias against for-profit institutions, which to the naive person I could understand why, but you must realize that for-profit doesn't translate into "we care more about money than the people we train/care for." You can get just as good of an education at a for-profit as you can at a NFP and in some cases the for-profit institution will be much more feasible and better equipped for the tasks at hand.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Good think the stats of profit or NFP doesn't matter. You obviously have a bias against for-profit institutions, which to the naive person I could understand why, but you must realize that for-profit doesn't translate into "we care more about money than the people we train/care for." You can get just as good of an education at a for-profit as you can at a NFP and in some cases the for-profit institution will be much more feasible and better equipped for the tasks at hand.

Im sorry medical school is enough of a business already as it is. We don't need people coming in here trying to make a buck. This opens the door for that possibility. The dean of BCOM even said so. He is a hypocrite and his explanation is weak. If it isn't feasible without it being for profit don't make the school. End of story.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

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[OrdinaryDO]

Im sorry medical school is enough of a business already as it is. We don't need people coming in here trying to make a buck. This opens the door for that possibility. The dean of BCOM even said so. He is a hypocrite and his explanation is weak. If it isn't feasible without it being for profit don't make the school. End of story.

So, allow me to apply your logic to this situation: New Mexico is ranked second to last in physician shortage and nearly just as low on the poverty ranking. Also, nearly 75% of all physicians in New Mexico are over the age of 60 which easily represents an even greater threat to healthcare for the next few years to come. We could open a medical school to help battle these problems and create a much better and more promising future for our residents here in New Mexico, but since I think for-profit schools are an abomination I think I would rather the problem grow rapidly out of hand and risk the future of New Mexico's healthcare for the benefit of feeling better about myself....

That is what you sound like. The dean is no more of a hypocrite than a person changing his mind about being hungry..he had a political stance, a firm one at that, but recognized and expressed publicly to others that he learned of ways for which for-profit was a blessing. The funny thing about this whole argument is that the student nor anyone else for that matter would know the difference between a for-profit or NFP unless it was disclosed to them to begin with. BCOM's tuition competes with all private osteopathic and allopathic schools for lowest cost. So, really, the only thing you could even POSSIBLY argue is the principle behind the schooling for which even then I say you have no argument. Like I said earlier your opinion is yours to keep, but you share nothing worth noting as far as evidence to back up your vivid claim that for-profit schools are terrible.