Class of 2020 Applicants

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I agree there is a stigma, I just don't agree that it is having a material impact on the graduates. A little impact? Yes. But it's not like there is an unemployment line for a particular school .

It'll be interesting to see how those coming out of LMU and Midwestern do once they graduate.

Look, I'm just saying there are some very serious considerations someone needs to think about when being the guinea pig class for a new school. Negative stigma in the vet community only being one aspect of it.

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I'm only half following this thread, but I'm confused.... the poster said something about the Arizona tuition cost being $110,000 for all four years....

Is that really any cheaper? I mean... if average debt among students who have debt is around $140-$160k ..... then it sounds like Arizona's cost is fairly average by the time you add in cost-of-living. Maybe a bit less, but not like some major paradigm shift.

What am I missing?

$110K for all 4 years would be nice but COL in that area would easily increase that to near $200K quite fast. That'd still be better than $200K tuition and COL.

I'm not sure it'd be worth being the guinea pig class but to each their own.
 
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On the UF documents section on vmcas, there are two spots to submit the picture, signature form, and pre req course form. How did anyone else solve this?
 
This is a large crock of BS they keep feeding people to get approval for these schools that are not needed. There is NO shortage of large animal vets anywhere. There is a shortage of money needed to support large animal vets in these small areas. Think about what that means in AZ. That means working in some very small town in the middle of nowhere. This means making around 45K per year, if even that. (I am a native Arizonan). There is no way to pay back loans (even 110K) off of that measly of a salary.

THIS. The reason there are not enough large animal/rural vets is because there is not enough of an economy in rural areas to support said vets. Increasing the numbers of people interested in large animal medicine does not address this problem.

And no, shipping off students to local clinics for learning is never going to be looked upon as a good thing. There is no standard for them to maintain, no way to know if their students are learning what they need, getting the skills they need, etc. It is a piss poor way to organize a veterinary program and the only reason they want to create it is to bring in the tuition money. As you stated, they will have to put out very little $ in order to start the vet school and they will bring in a whole lot of money in comparison to what they put out.

Exactly.
 
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I don't think the AVMA just accredits schools willy nilly, and from what I've heard Arizona has been fighting to get a public vet school for quite awhile (Midwestern is private, yes?). At the end of the day, if the curriculum passes and the governing body believes it can fulfill and maintain standards of education, then why should it matter if I'm learning X, Y, and Z from a local veterinarian who's been doing it for years, learned from an AVMA school, and was carefully picked to be a part of this program? From what I've read, those clinics and DVMs involved won't just get a call on Saturday night to let them know they start teaching on Monday morning.

Maybe saving the $140,000 isn't worth it, but maybe this school could be great. Again, I don't know enough, and sorry if I've lead this thread off topic

The reason is because these people have little, if ANY, teaching experience. Let alone formal experience. Aside from interns and first-year residents, pretty much every clinician at a vet school has some degree of teaching experience or else they would not have been hired in the first place. Many have been mentoring everyone from green first-years in lecture halls to on-the-job rotations students for years and years. That is why they are called TEACHING hospitals. That is my main concern with picking Joe Schmo, DVM down the street, even if he is a nice person and has maybe mentored a handful of new grads. Teaching students correctly so they maintain as much knowledge as possible is one of the hardest things to do, and not something most people can do right off the bat. It also takes a LOT of patience and time - something that a teaching hospital can afford, but a private business that needs to keep itself as efficient as possible likely cannot.

In addition to the above, what about all the rotations outside of basic "community practice/internal medicine" such as radiology, dermatology, neurology, cardiology, anesthesia, pathology, ortho vs soft tissue surg, etc? Are we expecting these general practitioner vets to be as knowledgeable about all these subjects in practice as a board-certified specialist at a vet school who runs the individual rotation? Sure, they are probably ok to capable of most - being a GP is being a jack of all trades after all. But there are going to be significant gaps because of this both in terms of knowledge and practice.
 
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The reason is because these people have little, if ANY, teaching experience. Let alone formal experience. Aside from interns and first-year residents, pretty much every clinician at a vet school has some degree of teaching experience or else they would not have been hired in the first place. Many have been mentoring everyone from green first-years in lecture halls to on-the-job rotations students for years and years. That is why they are called TEACHING hospitals. That is my main concern with picking Joe Schmo, DVM down the street, even if he is a nice person and has maybe mentored a handful of new grads. Teaching students correctly so they maintain as much knowledge as possible is one of the hardest things to do, and not something most people can do right off the bat. It also takes a LOT of patience and time - something that a teaching hospital can afford, but a private business that needs to keep itself as efficient as possible likely cannot.

I was going to post exactly something like this when I got home but you covered it better than I could. :)
 
I was going to post exactly something like this when I got home but you covered it better than I could. :)

You dun got

Naamloos-1.jpg
ed.
 
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Late to the party, but I am applying to CSU, my in-state. If I don't get in this first time, that's when I will expand outwards (to Wisconsin and Washington), but I love CSU as a vet school so much that I really don't want to go anywhere else. Even if I applied to more than just CSU this time around, and they rejected me, I know I wouldn't accept any out-of-state offer (just out of hopes that I may get in the next time around!).

That being said... I am really nervous about getting accepted! Everyone seems way more competitive than me.
 
Late to the party, but I am applying to CSU, my in-state. If I don't get in this first time, that's when I will expand outwards (to Wisconsin and Washington), but I love CSU as a vet school so much that I really don't want to go anywhere else. Even if I applied to more than just CSU this time around, and they rejected me, I know I wouldn't accept any out-of-state offer (just out of hopes that I may get in the next time around!).

That being said... I am really nervous about getting accepted! Everyone seems way more competitive than me.
.

I'm in a different state... but otherwise very much in the same situation. I'm applying IS this year and if I don't get in I'm considering expanding to a couple of OOS schools. Like you, I know that I wouldn't accept and OOS offer on this cycle even if I were to get one. Although for me it's less about my love of the school and more about IS tuition---not that I don't love the school; it's just that I haven't really entertained the idea of going OOS at the this point based on cost alone.

And yeah... everyone seems way more competitive than I am so we shall see what happens. Best of luck to you!
 
I'm in a different state... but otherwise very much in the same situation. I'm applying IS this year and if I don't get in I'm considering expanding to a couple of OOS schools. Like you, I know that I wouldn't accept and OOS offer on this cycle even if I were to get one. Although for me it's less about my love of the school and more about IS tuition---not that I don't love the school; it's just that I haven't really entertained the idea of going OOS at the this point based on cost alone.

And yeah... everyone seems way more competitive than I am so we shall see what happens. Best of luck to you!

Same - the tuition is a huge part of it! That's why the other two schools I am considering are Wisconsin and Washington - they have fairly cheap OOS tuition.

Best of luck to you as well! I think my main disadvantage is that I don't have as many vet hours as other people (500ish). I have to work to pay for school, so most of my extra time is doing that.
 
Well, speaking of LA vets...
I want to do mainly dairy work. I'm IS for CSU but was told UMN, Wisconsin and UF are the 3 dairy schools. Any comments on this or suggestions as to which would be the best other 2 schools to apply to? (CSU is a automatic.)
 
I would start considering back-up plans, honestly. Not saying you won't get in. But relying on this being your only option isn't a solid life choice. It's better to be prepared for the worst.

I have not considered any international schools for several reasons, including long term cost, closeness to family, and others.

I know for a fact I am having trouble due to grades. I have a 3.2/3.3. That's not competitive.
Do have 500+ hours of in depth, diverse vet experience? And see, my family is willing to share the cost burden with me(I'm lucky ...) And "closeness to family " isn't a thing for me. I'm willing to go wherever to become a vet, but hopefully I can stay in the states. My GPAs aren't the best but my cum is a 3.4-3.5, last 30-45 is a 3.5-3.6, and required coursework for most schools is a 3.6^.
 
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Does anyone know of any schools that offer a lot of focus on lab animal medicine?
 
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Does anyone know of any schools that offer a lot of focus on lab animal medicine?
I don't know what qualifies as a lot, but I know Mizzou at least has a class in it. Minnesota has practically none (and by practically I mean literally, my class year is the first that they'll offer a 2 week rotation on it for 4th year, but no classes or electives). Don't know about the other schools.

That being said, it's amazing what you can get outside of school if you actively pursue it (we have a research animal medicine club that is pretty active - and becoming more lab animal focused because that's my focus :p, and summer and long breaks I've spent doing fellowships/externships elsewhere to get that missing training).
 
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We have several post docs here in lab animal medicine at CSU. I'm pretty sure they somehow specialized, but I don't know enough about that side of the school. We also have a professor, Bernie Rollins, that literally wrote the book on the ethics of lab animal use and helped draft most of the legislation that governs animal use in research. (He's got a pretty fun class: Philosophy 666)
 
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Thank you all so much for your posts! LadyOtheFarm, I guess I should have known or looked into CSU's program as my undergrad lab animal professor is a graduate from there.
 
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Does anyone know of any schools that offer a lot of focus on lab animal medicine?

Penn has a tiny bit in the required curriculum. I took an elective in it that was interesting but with some awesome handling/skills labs. Other than that, I know we have a residency program for it. I have quite a few classmates who are interested in lab animal, but I think they've done more stuff at like GSK and other companies through summer internships.
 
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Quick question: I'm currently doing research in a cancer biology lab. Can I list handling and working with lab mice as Animal Experience? I wasn't going to but I wanted to check with all of you.
 
Advise Please.
This is my second time applying and I really want to get in. ( last year I got an interview at michigan and I am wait listed at tufts) I want to go to school sooo bad its my dream and I know I am cut out for it. But I am really worried I won't get in.
My GPA is 3.39 which I'm a aware is low but I don't think too low in my opinion. I went through some stuff my last semester which kind of hit my application hard since they really focus on your last 3 semesters. I write about it in my explanation statement but I don't think they really pay to much attention to.
MY GRE is 155 for both sections and 4 for writing. I do plan on studying my ass off for the month of August and improving my score. I can hopefully get it up a point or two.
Experience hours- well over 2000 hours. Pretty varied hospitals, shelters, exotics, zoos, and international work. I'm really only lacking on farm but did do 4h when I was younger.
I think my personal statement and recommendations are good.
What do guys think? Can I get in? Any recommendations of schools I should apply to (My IS in Davis which kind of sucks for me since its harder to get into). I really don't want to go to Ross, I don't think living on an island sounds great to me also its soooo expensive there. But at the same time I could probably get in there....but idk if its worth it to go since I won't like the environment which I believe will play a huge role in how well one can do.
ANY thoughts would be great thanks.
 
Does anyone know of any schools that offer a lot of focus on lab animal medicine?
Tufts has a master's program in lab animal that you can do as a combined program with the DVM. If you're looking to really have the most exposure/focus on it during vet school, this pretty much would give you the most experience. But it also means extra commitment and $$ on top of already ridiculously high DVM tuition.
 
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Quick question: I'm currently doing research in a cancer biology lab. Can I list handling and working with lab mice as Animal Experience? I wasn't going to but I wanted to check with all of you.
Isn't there a section now for research? You shouldn't double dip, so I wouldn't place it twice in your application.
 
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Quick question: I'm currently doing research in a cancer biology lab. Can I list handling and working with lab mice as Animal Experience? I wasn't going to but I wanted to check with all of you.
It should go under research, which most schools likely value more than animal experience.
 
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Advise Please.
This is my second time applying and I really want to get in. ( last year I got an interview at michigan and I am wait listed at tufts) I want to go to school sooo bad its my dream and I know I am cut out for it. But I am really worried I won't get in.
My GPA is 3.39 which I'm a aware is low but I don't think too low in my opinion. I went through some stuff my last semester which kind of hit my application hard since they really focus on your last 3 semesters. I write about it in my explanation statement but I don't think they really pay to much attention to.
MY GRE is 155 for both sections and 4 for writing. I do plan on studying my ass off for the month of August and improving my score. I can hopefully get it up a point or two.
Experience hours- well over 2000 hours. Pretty varied hospitals, shelters, exotics, zoos, and international work. I'm really only lacking on farm but did do 4h when I was younger.
I think my personal statement and recommendations are good.
What do guys think? Can I get in? Any recommendations of schools I should apply to (My IS in Davis which kind of sucks for me since its harder to get into). I really don't want to go to Ross, I don't think living on an island sounds great to me also its soooo expensive there. But at the same time I could probably get in there....but idk if its worth it to go since I won't like the environment which I believe will play a huge role in how well one can do.
ANY thoughts would be great thanks.
The "what are my chances?" thread would be a better place for this. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-my-chances.820748/
 
The reason is because these people have little, if ANY, teaching experience. Let alone formal experience. Aside from interns and first-year residents, pretty much every clinician at a vet school has some degree of teaching experience or else they would not have been hired in the first place. Many have been mentoring everyone from green first-years in lecture halls to on-the-job rotations students for years and years. That is why they are called TEACHING hospitals. That is my main concern with picking Joe Schmo, DVM down the street, even if he is a nice person and has maybe mentored a handful of new grads. Teaching students correctly so they maintain as much knowledge as possible is one of the hardest things to do, and not something most people can do right off the bat. It also takes a LOT of patience and time - something that a teaching hospital can afford, but a private business that needs to keep itself as efficient as possible likely cannot.

In addition to the above, what about all the rotations outside of basic "community practice/internal medicine" such as radiology, dermatology, neurology, cardiology, anesthesia, pathology, ortho vs soft tissue surg, etc? Are we expecting these general practitioner vets to be as knowledgeable about all these subjects in practice as a board-certified specialist at a vet school who runs the individual rotation? Sure, they are probably ok to capable of most - being a GP is being a jack of all trades after all. But there are going to be significant gaps because of this both in terms of knowledge and practice.

Thank you. Valuable information which helped solidify a lot in my mind.
 
I tried to ask this a few days ago and didn't get a reply... so I thought I'd ask again. If your application isn't verified, do they let you fix it? I know they say they can't accept any TRANSCRIPTS after the deadline, but whatever you messed something else up in entering your info? Thanks.
 
I tried to ask this a few days ago and didn't get a reply... so I thought I'd ask again. If your application isn't verified, do they let you fix it? I know they say they can't accept any TRANSCRIPTS after the deadline, but whatever you messed something else up in entering your info? Thanks.
Probably nobody answered because none of us have any idea. It seems like it would only be fair to let you fix it, but :shrug: I think this is a question best asked directly to VMCAS.
 
I tried to ask this a few days ago and didn't get a reply... so I thought I'd ask again. If your application isn't verified, do they let you fix it? I know they say they can't accept any TRANSCRIPTS after the deadline, but whatever you messed something else up in entering your info? Thanks.
For what it's worth, I think for most stuff the answer is no. I made a mistake entering my hours for one experperience (I entered the hours per week in the "total hours" section and the total hours in the "hours per week") section. I had submitted my application before I realized. I contacted VMCAS and they said I couldn't change anything when I had submitted my application and suggested I contact my programs directly. I did, and they all accepted the clarification. I wouldn't at all suggest you expect mistakes of any kind can be changed post-submission except small errors in coursework entry from your transcripts (I hear they check those during verification and require you to make changes if there's errors).

BUT, for everything, treat it as a final product once you submit. Proofread it THOROUGHLY. I probably would've caught that error had I just asked someone to look everything over. Thankfully it wasn't a huge error but it was pretty embarrassing.
 
I tried to ask this a few days ago and didn't get a reply... so I thought I'd ask again. If your application isn't verified, do they let you fix it? I know they say they can't accept any TRANSCRIPTS after the deadline, but whatever you messed something else up in entering your info? Thanks.

I submitted my VMCAS. I ordered the Transcript Entry Service for 3 of the 4 institutions I've attended. The 4th I entered myself. For that 4th school, once you enter it and decide you're good, you go through a final verification set of questions. Once you verify the transcript, double check, and submit, I believe you are done and can no longer change anything.

Question for everyone: Some of you may know that my experience hours are lacking compared to many other applicants. I am currently shadowing a SA vet during surgeries and what not, but if I could diversify a little bit and get a little more shadowing experience in other areas, would that even help at this point? The experience would be so ridiculously minimal in terms of hours, I don't know if that's even relevant or that it would give anyone a true understanding of that specific veterinary profession. Or would a few hours in a few other areas at least show that I've explored vet med outside of SA?

Either way, I feel locked in at the current vet so I will continue to rack up hours before the deadline, throughout next semester, and hopefully until vet school.
 
Probably nobody answered because none of us have any idea. It seems like it would only be fair to let you fix it, but :shrug: I think this is a question best asked directly to VMCAS.

I agree, that was gonna be my next step, but I haven't had a good experience with getting clear answers from them. I also agree it seems fair, but I just know because of summer classes I won't have my application in until september, meaning if they find mistakes, it will probably be after the deadline passed.

For what it's worth, I think for most stuff the answer is no. I made a mistake entering my hours for one experperience (I entered the hours per week in the "total hours" section and the total hours in the "hours per week") section. I had submitted my application before I realized. I contacted VMCAS and they said I couldn't change anything when I had submitted my application and suggested I contact my programs directly. I did, and they all accepted the clarification. I wouldn't at all suggest you expect mistakes of any kind can be changed post-submission except small errors in coursework entry from your transcripts (I hear they check those during verification and require you to make changes if there's errors).

BUT, for everything, treat it as a final product once you submit. Proofread it THOROUGHLY. I probably would've caught that error had I just asked someone to look everything over. Thankfully it wasn't a huge error but it was pretty embarrassing.

Yeah, I'm concerned about some summer courses I took in high school, since there was no way to make it "perfect" since it was a three week course, and you have to select like "summer 1 july - august" when it just 3 weeks in July.... thats the kind of "mistake" I was referring to.

That and my non-credit voice lessons that just have a blank spot in the grade and I wrote "none" into vmcas....

I'm probably overly paranoid but things like that are freaking me out.

I submitted my VMCAS. I ordered the Transcript Entry Service for 3 of the 4 institutions I've attended. The 4th I entered myself. For that 4th school, once you enter it and decide you're good, you go through a final verification set of questions. Once you verify the transcript, double check, and submit, I believe you are done and can no longer change anything.

I've gone back and done the "review and finalize" like 7000 times, so that's definable not it.
 
Question for everyone: Some of you may know that my experience hours are lacking compared to many other applicants. I am currently shadowing a SA vet during surgeries and what not, but if I could diversify a little bit and get a little more shadowing experience in other areas, would that even help at this point? The experience would be so ridiculously minimal in terms of hours, I don't know if that's even relevant or that it would give anyone a true understanding of that specific veterinary profession. Or would a few hours in a few other areas at least show that I've explored vet med outside of SA?

Either way, I feel locked in at the current vet so I will continue to rack up hours before the deadline, throughout next semester, and hopefully until vet school.
It does depend a bit on where you apply, but even just a few hours (like a day spent shadowing) in another area to diversify your experience should help. One of the most uncomfortable questions I had to answer in an interview was how I thought I would handle the large animal parts of the curriculum and being around horses, cows, etc when I had no large animal experience. I must have answered well since I got into that school, but I would have loved not to have to answer it in the first place. Rack up the hours at your current clinic, but do try to expand, even if it's only a bit.
 
I agree, that was gonna be my next step, but I haven't had a good experience with getting clear answers from them. I also agree it seems fair, but I just know because of summer classes I won't have my application in until september, meaning if they find mistakes, it will probably be after the deadline passed.



Yeah, I'm concerned about some summer courses I took in high school, since there was no way to make it "perfect" since it was a three week course, and you have to select like "summer 1 july - august" when it just 3 weeks in July.... thats the kind of "mistake" I was referring to.

That and my non-credit voice lessons that just have a blank spot in the grade and I wrote "none" into vmcas....

I'm probably overly paranoid but things like that are freaking me out.



I've gone back and done the "review and finalize" like 7000 times, so that's definable not it.
The whole verification process has only been around for a few years and I don't remember anyone mentioning their application not being verified after they sent it in. If you can't get a straight answer from VMCAS then all you can do is fill everything out to the best of your abilities and hope that they'll fix any minor errors as far as transcript stuff goes (they have said in the past that they will) and that there aren't any major discrepancies between your transcripts and what you entered on the application.
 
One of the most uncomfortable questions I had to answer in an interview was how I thought I would handle the large animal parts of the curriculum and being around horses, cows, etc when I had no large animal experience.

"First, I'll need some knobby tires for my wheelchair. No idea how this will go. You, hold my beer, and watch this."
 
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"First, I'll need some knobby tires for my wheelchair. No idea how this will go. You, hold my beer, and watch this."
:laugh: I believe my answer included something like "Well, I've always wanted to meet a cow."
 
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Pro tip: the soundtracks from the Pirates of the Carribean movies in conjunction with Ben & Jerry's ice cream enhance GRE prep efficacy by approx. 342%.
 
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Pro tip: the soundtracks from the Pirates of the Carribean movies in conjunction with Ben & Jerry's ice cream enhance GRE prep efficacy by approx. 342%.

Don't forget Howard Shore! I've studied way too much to the Lord of the Rings soundtracks.
 
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Speaking of music and studying, last semester I studied a lot to Enya and now whenever I hear Enya I get flashbacks to Animal Behavior class.
 
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:laugh: I believe my answer included something like "Well, I've always wanted to meet a cow."

Seriously, what would the best answer to that question be? I have a feeling I'll be asked similarly...
 
Seriously, what would the best answer to that question be? I have a feeling I'll be asked similarly...
I was asked about my complete lack of large animal experience, and I said I feel like I'd be very comfortable dealing with large animals, though there would be a learning curve as far as proper handling, and I would value the assistance of my classmates that had extensive LA experience. I also let them know I've been around horses and cows and so far there hasn't been an animal that I'm uncomfortable with, hell I care for my advisors alligator with no issues.
 
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I was asked about my complete lack of large animal experience, and I said I feel like I'd be very comfortable dealing with large animals, though there would be a learning curve as far as proper handling, and I would value the assistance of my classmates that had extensive LA experience. I also let them know I've been around horses and cows and so far there hasn't been an animal that I'm uncomfortable with, hell I care for my advisors alligator with no issues.
My answer was actually very similar, minus the having been around cows part. And I ended with the comment about wanting to meet a cow :p
 
I was asked about my complete lack of large animal experience, and I said I feel like I'd be very comfortable dealing with large animals, though there would be a learning curve as far as proper handling, and I would value the assistance of my classmates that had extensive LA experience. I also let them know I've been around horses and cows and so far there hasn't been an animal that I'm uncomfortable with, hell I care for my advisors alligator with no issues.

Good answer, thanks! :)
 
More than once I've found a stray cow on the road. I was able to wrangle the first two back into their enclosure (though cows can run faster than you think and it's scary when they run right at you), the third was a bull and I just waited patiently for him to cross the road while I called the local police. He gave me a look that let me know he wasn't going anywhere easily.
 
Can I still submit my GRE scores if I 'm planning on taking the test August 20th of this year? Will I be able to make the VMCAS deadline?
 
Can I still submit my GRE scores if I 'm planning on taking the test August 20th of this year? Will I be able to make the VMCAS deadline?

You should be good. I'm taking mine on that date as well (just before the semester starts). Not sure if some schools have different deadlines but I believe that's plenty of time to get to your schools by September 15. Keep in mind, for some supplementals (Colorado), they won't even let you submit the app without a GRE score.
 
Can I still submit my GRE scores if I 'm planning on taking the test August 20th of this year? Will I be able to make the VMCAS deadline?
You don't have to have your official scores in by the VMCAS deadline, just the deadlines for your schools. For instance I'm pretty sure Mizzou's deadline isn't until January. But even if the schools you're applying to do have a Sept 15 deadline for GRE scores, you should be fine. Two years ago I took the GRE Sept 7, and Purdue got my scores by their October 1st deadline (I decided kind of late to apply there, or else I wouldn't have taken it so last minute!).
 
Is anyone else having issues with the dates showing up wrong on VMCAS? For my achievements and GRE section the date I entered isn't what shows up in the preview.. but when I go to edit, the right one is there, so it's not like I entered it wrong by mistake
 
Is anyone else having issues with the dates showing up wrong on VMCAS? For my achievements and GRE section the date I entered isn't what shows up in the preview.. but when I go to edit, the right one is there, so it's not like I entered it wrong by mistake
Is everything being shifted to one day earlier? That's been happening to me since the app opened. Its so annoying! the correct days show up when I go to edit as well
 
Is everything being shifted to one day earlier? That's been happening to me since the app opened. Its so annoying! the correct days show up when I go to edit as well

Either one or two days, it's not even consistent.... the one that is bothering me the most is the GRE day. Cause the awards are whatever if it's one day off (same with experiences)... but the GRE is an official thing, I'd like that date to be correct!
 
Yeah, it's been doing that for at least the last 2 weeks. I didn't notice on the other stuff but the GRE thing is driving me crazy.
 
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