Is it ok if "helping others" isn't among your reasons for wanting medicine?

[rifle4802]

I'm a 2nd year undergrad now and from reading these forums and listening to advice/tips from pre-med counselors at my school, medical students, etc I've gotten the sense that most people have some sort of naturally altruistic/beneficent motivation behind pursuing medicine as a career. Every person I talk to about my career goals tells me that I should love the field and have a genuine interest in the well-being of patients/sick people.

But I've never felt this, still don't feel it while I'm volunteering/shadowing and observing all kinds of patients/cases, and don't think I ever will. Don't get me wrong... I intend on performing a doctor's job to the best of my ability when I reach that stage, but it's more because it's my job and people suffer serious consequences for not doing their jobs properly in any field (litigation, getting fired, being unable to support themselves, etc).

Ever since middle school, I've been astounded by salaries/lifestyle of physicians. Starting around when I was 10 years old, one of my uncles invited us over to his house for Christmas every year. It was an absolute mansion. He also had 3 different Japanese/German cars for himself. I still remember in vivid detail being in awe over seeing his house for the first time and telling him I wanted to be like him when I grew up (he's a pulmonologist by the way, and his wife is a pediatrician). I know/am related to plenty others who live like this, and it's exactly what I want when I'm an adult.

I'm also deeply fascinated by human anatomy/physiology, mechanisms of disease, drugs, etc. Medical science itself is something I've always had great curiosity in, which is why I don't want to pursue other high-paying professions like law or finance (which I don't even think are all that high-paying anyway unless you make it big).

So I guess I'm just asking if there are any others out there who are just like me. How many of you have "your own reasons" for wanting to become a doctor that are unrelated to patient care? And is this ok? Can people like this get into medical school?

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[Chipster.]

Ever since middle school, I've been astounded by salaries/lifestyle of physicians. Starting around when I was 10 years old, one of my uncles invited us over to his house for Christmas every year. It was an absolute mansion. He also had 3 different Japanese/German cars for himself. I still remember in vivid detail being in awe over seeing his house for the first time and telling him I wanted to be like him when I grew up (he's a pulmonologist by the way, and his wife is a pediatrician). I know/am related to plenty others who live like this, and it's exactly what I want when I'm an adult.

Congrats! Sounds like you got the start to your personal statement- the hard part is over!

But seriously, stop trolling. It's getting old for all of us.

 

[deleted407021]

Well, you're not going to be a doctor so stop worrying about it.

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

I want nice cars and a mansion too! I mean, who doesn't? That can't be your only motivation though.

 

[Boolean]

Concentrate on your fascination with anatomy/physiology and whatnot. Less of the $$$

Oh. It's rifle. We know where this is going.

 

[phunky]

Obvious troll is obvious

 

[pterygoideus]

Obvious troll is obvious

 

[rifle4802]

I want nice cars and a mansion too! I mean, who doesn't? That can't be your only motivation though.

And why is that? Lawyers, stock brokers and people in several other professions can be motivated solely by financial reasons. What's wrong with that mentality in medicine?

And what other possible motivations are there? In the end, there's a finite number of reasons to pursue any field. I said I'm also interested in medical science as well. What else can there be?

 

[mrh125]

If you're not trolling you should just get yourself used to wanting to help others because that's like one of two requirements to be a doctor (the other one is liking science). Most people who are just interested in money can at least pretend they aren't or learn a way to develop compassion for helping others. If you just want money you should work on being the next wolf of wallstreet or some ****.

 

[Psai]

pulmonologist + pediatrician isn't exactly mansion status

 

[medic86]

I know I'm going against what I'm about to say... but:

for the love of god, can everyone please resist the urge to post in this thread? D:

 

[sat0ri]

Despite the frivolousness of this thread, it almost seems like it. They always say "liking science" and "helping others" is too cliche. Maybe that part will get phased out all together in lieu of being eccentric

 

[stevvo111]

And why is that? Lawyers, stock brokers and people in several other professions can be motivated solely by financial reasons. What's wrong with that mentality in medicine?

And what other possible motivations are there? In the end, there's a finite number of reasons to pursue any field. I said I'm also interested in medical science as well. What else can there be?

well the one obvious response to your first couple questions is that medicine is truly unique in that most (yes there are some) are not "motivated solely by financial reasons". That's exactly why people don't want that "mentality" in medicine. To the other questions, medicine is pretty cool in that the majority of people who do it, don't do it for themselves.

I mean, I certainly would not want to go to a doctor who's main motivation for his work was money. I'd be scared honestly as would most people. Like yeah capitalism is cool, and whatnot, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with my doctor being only "deeply fascinated" by the disease ("sweet doc, you like my body and pathophysiology, but you're saying you have no interest in me beyond that? gtfo") I have and the monetary compensation gained from having me as a patient. I'd hope the doctor had some interest in helping me not because it's his job, but because he truly cares about treating me.

If you are deeply fascinated by science and are interested in racking in the dough, think about biotech or pharmaceutical industry. I know people in biotech who make butt loads of money, do cool things, and get to be around "science/medicine/anatomy/physiology" fields.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

pulmonologist + pediatrician isn't exactly mansion status

Maybe property values were low because they live in the boonies? A mansion in the boonies.

 

[terp720]

::sigh:: your other threads were at least plausible. i could see someone wanting to work part-time. Could definitely see someone sneaking a test home and cheating on it..
but given your MONSTROUS 3.92 GPA, I expect better than this

 

[487806]

::sigh:: your other threads were at least plausible. i could see someone wanting to work part-time. Could definitely see someone sneaking a test home and cheating on it..
but given your MONSTROUS 3.92 GPA, I expect better than this

Completely disagree on numerous points. The bolded didn't happen at all.

 

[WestCoastNative]

OP, you're getting answers from SDN that look good. You say that you have a genuine interest in medicine, physiology, anatomy, etc.. Looks like you enjoy it all together. Seems like you aren't as passionate about helping others, but I've had this type of experience with plenty of doctors. You're getting these types of answers because if you're going to strive to be a doctor, it'd be better if you'd give it your all and help people out genuinely. I'm sure that anybody in the position of a doctor would be willing to help people out though, not just for the money. If not, than you just haven't grown up yet or you're some kind of egotistical *insert offensive term*. Go for it. The benefits of being a doctor are extraordinary; seems like you have a better idea than me actually. SDN is completely uptight about becoming a doctor if even a quarter of your reasoning behind it involves money.

 

[606577]

From what I have seen, the salary and lifestyle is a major motivation to enter medicine (I have seen this the most with older docs). Just because that is their reason does not make them a bad doctor. They can still be personable people and very good at what they do. Many medical students with eyes on big salaries magically know exactly what they want to specialize in on day one, and fashion themselves in a way to be attractive to those residencies.

 

[WestCoastNative]

From what I have seen, the salary and lifestyle is a major motivation to enter medicine (I have seen this the most with older docs). Just because that is their reason does not make them a bad doctor. They can still be personable people and very good at what they do. Many medical students with eyes on big salaries magically know exactly what they want to specialize in on day one, and fashion themselves in a way to be attractive to those residencies.

Exactly. Calling OP a troll and stating that he'll never be a doctor is doing too much. He said that it isn't his only motive for becoming a doctor..

 

[rifle4802]

Well, you're not going to be a doctor so stop worrying about it.

Uh, yes I am. I have all the academic and extracurricular qualifications. I will definitely get in.

 

[rifle4802]

Concentrate on your fascination with anatomy/physiology and whatnot. Less of the $$$

Oh. It's rifle. We know where this is going.

You talking about for my personal statement?

 

[rifle4802]

If you're not trolling you should just get yourself used to wanting to help others because that's like one of two requirements to be a doctor (the other one is liking science). Most people who are just interested in money can at least pretend they aren't or learn a way to develop compassion for helping others. If you just want money you should work on being the next wolf of wallstreet or some ****.

Let's please stop with this mindless use of the word "trolling." I'm not violating any of this forum's TOS and all I'm doing is asking a question to see if there are others in the same boat as me. Becoming a wolf of Wall Street is not a viable career option. And since when was it a "requirement" to want to help others? Last I checked, the only requirements were having sufficiently high grades/MCAT, appropriate ECs, and a strong essay.

 

[Boolean]

You talking about for my personal statement?

From every post I've seen out of you. I applaud your devotion to learning and I too share that passion, but you must consider that there's more to medicine than money and knowledge.

 

[rifle4802]

well the one obvious response to your first couple questions is that medicine is truly unique in that most (yes there are some) are not "motivated solely by financial reasons". That's exactly why people don't want that "mentality" in medicine. To the other questions, medicine is pretty cool in that the majority of people who do it, don't do it for themselves.

I mean, I certainly would not want to go to a doctor who's main motivation for his work was money. I'd be scared honestly as would most people. Like yeah capitalism is cool, and whatnot, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with my doctor being only "deeply fascinated" by the disease ("sweet doc, you like my body and pathophysiology, but you're saying you have no interest in me beyond that? gtfo") I have and the monetary compensation gained from having me as a patient. I'd hope the doctor had some interest in helping me not because it's his job, but because he truly cares about treating me.

If you are deeply fascinated by science and are interested in racking in the dough, think about biotech or pharmaceutical industry. I know people in biotech who make butt loads of money, do cool things, and get to be around "science/medicine/anatomy/physiology" fields.

Why do you have to care about them? They aren't related to you. They aren't your blood or even your friends. It's difficult for me to develop an emotional attachment to people who are total strangers to me.

You don't need to "care" for them to be great at your job. And what are these other jobs you are talking about? I know of exactly zero jobs in biotechnology/pharmaceuticals where the average salary is even in the same ballpark as a physician's.

 

[rifle4802]

::sigh:: your other threads were at least plausible. i could see someone wanting to work part-time. Could definitely see someone sneaking a test home and cheating on it..
but given your MONSTROUS 3.92 GPA, I expect better than this

What is so implausible? You really believe everyone in medicine has an internal desire to help others? It's possible to want to become a doctor for other reasons.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I hope you realize that those doctors you saw in mansions when you were in middle school were from a very different generation of medicine.

 

[rifle4802]

I hope you realize that those doctors you saw in mansions when you were in middle school were from a very different generation of medicine.

I know many of them who are living in mansions right now and are a part of today's generation of medicine. That's what is waiting for me 10 years from now.

 

[ninjaman22]

OP, chill out...you are on probation! lol

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I know many of them who are living in mansions right now and are a part of today's generation of medicine. That's what is waiting for me 10 years from now.

Cool. In 10 years, most new physicians will be heavily in debt and working in a medical system that has been chipping away at reimbursement every year that they've been training. "Most" physicians won't be striking it rich. Comfortable? Yes.

What do you care, though? You'll be working 2 days a week and making 100k. Doubt you'll get a mansion with that income, unless you're parents chip in.

 

[deleted407021]

Uh, yes I am. I have all the academic and extracurricular qualifications. I will definitely get in.

But your personality and inability to carry rationality in a bucket will be your barrier.

 

[Godspeedyou]

I'd rather have a good physician taking care of me who doesn't care about helping others but does a good job because of the money that comes from it than a bad physician who doesn't care about the money and only cares about helping others. Just like I don't care if my good plumber is only in it for the money and not for the love of toilet. Good luck OP. Inb4 why not both.

 

[mehc012]

Helping others is a secondary reason for me...I would never list it as 'why medicine'. If I want to help others, there are 85 bajillion ways to do it. I want to be a doctor because the human body is just freaking cool. Plus, it's something that's in my face (literally, I suppose) day in and day out, so I know I will have enough questions to try and teach myself half of this stuff anyway, may as well get paid for it, right?

 

[mrh125]

Let's please stop with this mindless use of the word "trolling." I'm not violating any of this forum's TOS and all I'm doing is asking a question to see if there are others in the same boat as me. Becoming a wolf of Wall Street is not a viable career option. And since when was it a "requirement" to want to help others? Last I checked, the only requirements were having sufficiently high grades/MCAT, appropriate ECs, and a strong essay.

when 99% of your job is dedicated to helping others and addressing their problems a minimal amount of compassion towards is a necessary prereq. you dont have to be like a saint or whatever, but there are way too many cold insensitive doctors who depersonalize patients, and make them feel awful because of lack of interest.

 

[deleted407021]

I'd rather have a good physician taking care of me who doesn't care about helping others but does a good job because of the money that comes from it than a bad physician who doesn't care about the money and only cares about helping others. Just like I don't care if my good plumber is only in it for the money and not for the love of toilet. Good luck OP. Inb4 why not both.

That line of reasoning doesn't really make sense. You can't compare medicine to plumbing. There's a reason why people say a desire for "helping others" is requisite to be a doctor or nurse or optometrist. You are knee deep in people who need their bodies repaired, which is much more personal and important than their toilets.

 

[Planes2Doc]

A physician's reasons for entering medicine aren't any different than a lawyer, engineer, investment banker, or any other position.

Does it really matter? When I'm at the doctor's office and the doctor walks into the room, do I care whether he is doing this because he genuinely wants to help people, or so that he can help pay for a lavish lifestyle? I'm not a mind reader, I don't know, and most importantly, I DON'T CARE. All I care about is being effectively treated. Thus, I don't care whether the doctor spends their weekends volunteering at a local free clinic, or screwing hookers in Vegas.

Generally speaking though, it's taboo to mention genuine reasons for working. I bet that if you went to a job interview and said you wanted the job so that you can pay the bills and make a living, you'd be rejected. It's ridiculous. So for whatever industry there is, you're required to make up a bunch of usually fake reasons. The medical school admissions process requires pre-meds to put on a big dog and pony show for ADCOMs. Now, if they were really honest, we'd have everyone rushing to help the underserved and work in primary care specialties. Instead, despite 90% of applicants saying that they are dying to help the underserved, we see most people gun for more competitive specialties.

Now as a patient, how does this affect you?... ... ...?

 

[rifle4802]

Cool. In 10 years, most new physicians will be heavily in debt and working in a medical system that has been chipping away at reimbursement every year that they've been training. "Most" physicians won't be striking it rich. Comfortable? Yes.

What do you care, though? You'll be working 2 days a week and making 100k. Doubt you'll get a mansion with that income, unless you're parents chip in.

Even for the physicians who aren't fortunate enough to graduate medical school debt-free, eventually there will come a point in their lives when they've repaid all their loans and it comes straight down to raw income. Theirs will still be incredibly high. Reimbursement cuts aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be and they won't affect every specialty. Becoming rich is absolutely well within the reach of any future physician who wants it.

 

[rifle4802]

I'd rather have a good physician taking care of me who doesn't care about helping others but does a good job because of the money that comes from it than a bad physician who doesn't care about the money and only cares about helping others. Just like I don't care if my good plumber is only in it for the money and not for the love of toilet. Good luck OP. Inb4 why not both.

Finally, something that sounds reasonable. Didn't think I was the only one.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Even for the physicians who aren't fortunate enough to graduate medical school debt-free, eventually there will come a point in their lives when they've repaid all their loans and it comes straight down to raw income. Theirs will still be incredibly high. Reimbursement cuts aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be and they won't affect every specialty. Becoming rich is absolutely well within the reach of any future physician who wants it.

Well, you better start shopping for that Ferrari and 10k+ square foot mansion then.

 

[Beth_W737]

Have you ever looked at published data on physician salaries instead of relying on people you know who may have inherited money or have other sources of income? Even the higher paying jobs still don't compare to business or pharma salaries (for those high up). It will take me years to catch up on retirement etc and I'm lucky not to have a ton of debt. You need to do more research and think twice if financial motivations are a main incentive. I know world renowned docs who make $125,000-150,000. Plus if you don't match into a lucrative specialty what then? Things will be much harder when you are matching.

 

[deleted407021]

Even for the physicians who aren't fortunate enough to graduate medical school debt-free, eventually there will come a point in their lives when they've repaid all their loans and it comes straight down to raw income. Theirs will still be incredibly high. Reimbursement cuts aren't anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be and they won't affect every specialty. Becoming rich is absolutely well within the reach of any future physician who wants it.

Because the only debt people like doctors ever incur is from student loans? They don't buy houses?

 

[rifle4802]

Have you ever looked at published data on physician salaries instead of relying on people you know who may have inherited money or have other sources of income? Even the higher paying jobs still don't compare to business or pharma salaries (for those high up). It will take me years to catch up on retirement etc and I'm lucky not to have a ton of debt. You need to do more research and think twice if financial motivations are a main incentive. I know world renowned docs who make $125,000-150,000. Plus if you don't match into a lucrative specialty what then? Things will be much harder when you are matching.

Yes, I get my info from actual doctors in real life and from Medscape's annual physician compensation reports AND from many other sources. None of them suggest salary outlooks anywhere near as bleak as what you and the other poster believe. In fact, looking at this published data has me giddy and feeling like I can't wait until I start.

 

[Pacna]

Is it ok if "helping others" isn't among your reasons for wanting medicine?

Yes.

/thread

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Have you ever looked at published data on physician salaries instead of relying on people you know who may have inherited money or have other sources of income? Even the higher paying jobs still don't compare to business or pharma salaries (for those high up). It will take me years to catch up on retirement etc and I'm lucky not to have a ton of debt. You need to do more research and think twice if financial motivations are a main incentive. I know world renowned docs who make $125,000-150,000. Plus if you don't match into a lucrative specialty what then? Things will be much harder when you are matching.

Don't bother. Logic doesn't work on him.

He'll eventually figure out things like opportunity cost and compound interest. Or maybe not.

I won't even start with the number of physicians that are awful with money and only appear to be rich to others when their net worth is pathetic.

 

[Doudline]

A physician's reasons for entering medicine aren't any different than a lawyer, engineer, investment banker, or any other position.

Does it really matter? When I'm at the doctor's office and the doctor walks into the room, do I care whether he is doing this because he genuinely wants to help people, or so that he can help pay for a lavish lifestyle? I'm not a mind reader, I don't know, and most importantly, I DON'T CARE. All I care about is being effectively treated. Thus, I don't care whether the doctor spends their weekends volunteering at a local free clinic, or screwing hookers in Vegas.

Generally speaking though, it's taboo to mention genuine reasons for working. I bet that if you went to a job interview and said you wanted the job so that you can pay the bills and make a living, you'd be rejected. It's ridiculous. So for whatever industry there is, you're required to make up a bunch of usually fake reasons. The medical school admissions process requires pre-meds to put on a big dog and pony show for ADCOMs. Now, if they were really honest, we'd have everyone rushing to help the underserved and work in primary care specialties. Instead, despite 90% of applicants saying that they are dying to help the underserved, we see most people gun for more competitive specialties.

Now as a patient, how does this affect you?... ... ...?

Science has shown that having a supportive social circle improves life expectancy and overall health; the physician is definitely part of that circle for many people (especially for the very sick).

+ placebo effect from having a good relationship with your doc.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Science has shown that having a supportive social circle improves life expectancy and overall health; the physician is definitely part of that circle for many people (especially for the very sick).

+ placebo effect from having a good relationship with your doc.

People seem to think that wanting to help others equals being a nice person. When I volunteered at the hospital, there was one elderly volunteer there who was incredibly rude! I would never want him to be my friend in any way. Then last weekend my friend's grandparents came over to his place. His grandfather was very nice, and much nicer than this elderly volunteer. The grandfather doesn't volunteer in his spare time.

So the person who supposedly cares about others is a mean individual, and the person who doesn't spend their free time volunteering is nice. That's how the world works. You can have doctors who are very friendly all the way down to doctors who treat everyone like garbage. But their intentions for pursuing medicine aren't necessarily correlated with their personality and the type of people they are. Just because someone wants to live lavishly doesn't mean that they are an ***hole, and just because someone wants to have a fulfilling job "helping people" doesn't make them a saint.

 

[Godspeedyou]

That line of reasoning doesn't really make sense. You can't compare medicine to plumbing. There's a reason why people say a desire for "helping others" is requisite to be a doctor or nurse or optometrist. You are knee deep in people who need their bodies repaired, which is much more personal and important than their toilets.

Importance is purely subjective. If a plumber thinks being knee deep in toilets and has a personal connection is he in the wrong?
No.

 

[darkjedi]

 

[487806]

People seem to think that wanting to help others equals being a nice person. When I volunteered at the hospital, there was one elderly volunteer there who was incredibly rude! I would never want him to be my friend in any way. Then last weekend my friend's grandparents came over to his place. His grandfather was very nice, and much nicer than this elderly volunteer. The grandfather doesn't volunteer in his spare time.

So the person who supposedly cares about others is a mean individual, and the person who doesn't spend their free time volunteering is nice. That's how the world works. You can have doctors who are very friendly all the way down to doctors who treat everyone like garbage. But their intentions for pursuing medicine aren't necessarily correlated with their personality and the type of people they are. Just because someone wants to live lavishly doesn't mean that they are an ***hole, and just because someone wants to have a fulfilling job "helping people" doesn't make them a saint.

Corollary: it is sinful to work for money. Volunteer = altruism = guaranteed salvation. Money = greed = evil = eternal condemnation. Very crucial fact.

 

[Doudline]

People seem to think that wanting to help others equals being a nice person. When I volunteered at the hospital, there was one elderly volunteer there who was incredibly rude! I would never want him to be my friend in any way. Then last weekend my friend's grandparents came over to his place. His grandfather was very nice, and much nicer than this elderly volunteer. The grandfather doesn't volunteer in his spare time.

So the person who supposedly cares about others is a mean individual, and the person who doesn't spend their free time volunteering is nice. That's how the world works. You can have doctors who are very friendly all the way down to doctors who treat everyone like garbage. But their intentions for pursuing medicine aren't necessarily correlated with their personality and the type of people they are. Just because someone wants to live lavishly doesn't mean that they are an ***hole, and just because someone wants to have a fulfilling job "helping people" doesn't make them a saint.

From statistical data, the lowest paying specialties in medicine (namely in paediatrics) boast the most happy physicians.

Happiness generally translates to increased patience, empathy -trying to make others happy is the last of your priorities when you feel like **** yourself- and overall better patient-physician relationships. Also, people who are mainly motivated by money are more volatile in their choices regarding work, thus more likely to let down patients one way or another.

There's also a matter of perception. Whether I like it or not, I'd be more trustful of a physician who did volunteer work every year for MSF/gave free medical appointments to the poor/whatever than of one who only tried to maximize profits at all costs and was ungrateful of his many privileges, even if they were both equally nice and competent. And I'm far from being the only one.

It doesn't seem far-fetched to say that those who hold greed as a main motivator are henceforth affecting patients' health negatively.

 

[WillburCobb]

MedPR gets banned, but rifle gets a slap on the wrist and comes back with his sloppy, half-a$$ed trolling. Looks like SDN is following the same trajectory as the American economy.