Match lists 2015

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This is is going to sound silly, but I'm kind of surprised how many people on almost all these much lists end up doing AOA family medicine... it's probably the most DO-friendly specialty on the ACGME side. I wonder what reasons people have for going AOA FM. Maybe they love OMM (obviously a good reason to pick AOA.) Maybe they don't have other options? Maybe they don't care about any differences in quality between AOA residencies and ACGME residencies? Maybe those perceived differences are way overblown by SDN? Regional preferences?
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NurWollen said:
This is is going to sound silly, but I'm kind of surprised how many people on almost all these much lists end up doing AOA family medicine... it's probably the most DO-friendly specialty on the ACGME side. I wonder what reasons people have for going AOA FM. Maybe they love OMM (obviously a good reason to pick AOA.) Maybe they don't have other options? Maybe they don't care about any differences in quality between AOA residencies and ACGME residencies? Maybe those perceived differences are way overblown by SDN? Regional preferences?
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Look at it from their perspective. If you didnt do well in 4 years of school and skipped or did bad on the usmle, you'd go for AOA FM instead of taking a shot at a later ACGME match where you risk going unmatched.

This makes me realize how ballsy the derm and ortho acgme students were this year.

edit: scratch that, derm isnt a straight match in aoa so the students didnt risk anything.
 
NurWollen said:
This is is going to sound silly, but I'm kind of surprised how many people on almost all these much lists end up doing AOA family medicine... it's probably the most DO-friendly specialty on the ACGME side. I wonder what reasons people have for going AOA FM. Maybe they love OMM (obviously a good reason to pick AOA.) Maybe they don't have other options? Maybe they don't care about any differences in quality between AOA residencies and ACGME residencies? Maybe those perceived differences are way overblown by SDN? Regional preferences?
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WhendoIstartfirstaid? said:
Look at it from their perspective. If you didnt do well in 4 years of school and skipped or did bad on the usmle, you'd go for AOA FM instead of taking a shot at a later ACGME match where you risk going unmatched.

This makes me realize how ballsy the derm and ortho acgme students were this year.

edit: scratch that, derm isnt a straight match in aoa so the students didnt risk anything.
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Yeah, now that I look at my last post there, I think I came off as kind of pretentious. I'm far from top of my class, and since I have yet to take the boards, I have no idea how competitive an applicant I will be come match time. For all I know I'll end up at one of those AOA residencies. So I should keep my mouth shut.
 
hallowmann said:
This.

I've heard people throw around 2017 or 2018, but its all non-guaranteed rumors. I think its safe to assume that by 2020 they will be combined, but I wouldn't bet on anything until a real timeline comes out, which won't happen until maybe the year before the combined match.

Chances are if you're in school right now, you probably won't be in a combined match, unless they do something uncharacteristic and actually finish things up ahead of schedule.
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Actually.........and this is straight from the mouth of the AOA president, so although this isnt published anywhere, it makes perfectly reasonable sense, and you are all free to quote me on this

The second that a program gets approved for accreditation by the ACGME, they move to the ACGME match. Therefore, by 2020 since there will be no more AOA programs, there will be only one match.

PDs realize that this is a very big deal, and that if they dont get ACGME accreditation as soon as they possibly can, it will dramatically affect who applies there. Most/all programs will be doing everything possible to switch accreditation as soon as they can.

So basically starting with 2016 and ending in 2020, the AOA match will shrink and disappear, and the majority of programs will be shifting over in the beginning of that time frame.


while it wont be a truly "combined match" right away, it is going to look a lot like one
 
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anyone know what LECOM's match looks like? haven't seen much info on it
 
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YankeeCandle1141 said:
Actually.........and this is straight from the mouth of the AOA president, so although this isnt published anywhere, it makes perfectly reasonable sense, and you are all free to quote me on this

The second that a program gets approved for accreditation by the ACGME, they move to the ACGME match. Therefore, by 2020 since there will be no more AOA programs, there will be only one match.

PDs realize that this is a very big deal, and that if they dont get ACGME accreditation as soon as they possibly can, it will dramatically affect who applies there. Most/all programs will be doing everything possible to switch accreditation as soon as they can.

So basically starting with 2016 and ending in 2020, the AOA match will shrink and disappear, and the majority of programs will be shifting over in the beginning of that time frame.


while it wont be a truly "combined match" right away, it is going to look a lot like one
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so would this mean the current dually accredited AOA programs join the NRMP match for 2015-2016?
 
YankeeCandle1141 said:
Actually.........and this is straight from the mouth of the AOA president, so although this isnt published anywhere, it makes perfectly reasonable sense, and you are all free to quote me on this

The second that a program gets approved for accreditation by the ACGME, they move to the ACGME match. Therefore, by 2020 since there will be no more AOA programs, there will be only one match.

PDs realize that this is a very big deal, and that if they dont get ACGME accreditation as soon as they possibly can, it will dramatically affect who applies there. Most/all programs will be doing everything possible to switch accreditation as soon as they can.

So basically starting with 2016 and ending in 2020, the AOA match will shrink and disappear, and the majority of programs will be shifting over in the beginning of that time frame.


while it wont be a truly "combined match" right away, it is going to look a lot like one
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what will happen to all these residencies that are currently gaining dual accreditation. Several ACGME residencies that I was once interested in are now ACGME/AOA which makes me want to avoid them. I'm confused why a ACGME residency would gain dual status when they, like you say, will be switching to ACGME only.
 
shibby1111 said:
what will happen to all these residencies that are currently gaining dual accreditation. Several ACGME residencies that I was once interested in are now ACGME/AOA which makes me want to avoid them. I'm confused why a ACGME residency would gain dual status when they, like you say, will be switching to ACGME only.
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Some programs in specialties that attract a lot of FMGs pursue dual accreditation in order to attract more DO applicants.

I wouldn't avoid a program because they have dual accreditation. From what I've seen, they tend to be very strong programs.
 
YankeeCandle1141 said:
Actually.........and this is straight from the mouth of the AOA president, so although this isnt published anywhere, it makes perfectly reasonable sense, and you are all free to quote me on this

The second that a program gets approved for accreditation by the ACGME, they move to the ACGME match. Therefore, by 2020 since there will be no more AOA programs, there will be only one match.

PDs realize that this is a very big deal, and that if they dont get ACGME accreditation as soon as they possibly can, it will dramatically affect who applies there. Most/all programs will be doing everything possible to switch accreditation as soon as they can.

So basically starting with 2016 and ending in 2020, the AOA match will shrink and disappear, and the majority of programs will be shifting over in the beginning of that time frame.


while it wont be a truly "combined match" right away, it is going to look a lot like one
Click to expand...

This could change the match dynamics for my year (2017) quite profoundly. I see the dynamics of who applies where changing and with little predicability.
 
user3 said:
so would this mean the current dually accredited AOA programs join the NRMP match for 2015-2016?
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They probably will all be ACGME in the 2016 match, but I am just speculating. He didnt talk about this specifically.

We will likely find out in a few weeks when ERAS goes live.


shibby1111 said:
what will happen to all these residencies that are currently gaining dual accreditation. Several ACGME residencies that I was once interested in are now ACGME/AOA which makes me want to avoid them. I'm confused why a ACGME residency would gain dual status when they, like you say, will be switching to ACGME only.
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I dont know why. My guess is that they probably started the process of gaining dual accreditation years before the merger was even brought up. This stuff doesn't happen over night.

NurWollen said:
This could change the match dynamics for my year (2017) quite profoundly. I see the dynamics of who applies where changing and with little predicability.
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It will. Most notably the fact that the best programs will gain ACGME accreditation the fastest, leaving mostly "backup programs" in the AOA match. You will have to decide between taking a bottom of the barrel AOA residency, or forgoing the AOA match and entering the ACGME with few/no backup options.

Fun stuff.
 
YankeeCandle1141 said:
They probably will all be ACGME in the 2016 match, but I am just speculating. He didnt talk about this specifically.

We will likely find out in a few weeks when ERAS goes live.




I dont know why. My guess is that they probably started the process of gaining dual accreditation years before the merger was even brought up. This stuff doesn't happen over night.




It will. Most notably the fact that the best programs will gain ACGME accreditation the fastest, leaving mostly "backup programs" in the AOA match. You will have to decide between taking a bottom of the barrel AOA residency, or forgoing the AOA match and entering the ACGME with few/no backup options.

Fun stuff.
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But I'm sure all these newly accredited ACGME programs through ERAS will still have the "osteopathic-focused" denotation so that there may still be requirements of OMM training or accepting COMLEX board scores?
 
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YankeeCandle1141 said:
It will. Most notably the fact that the best programs will gain ACGME accreditation the fastest, leaving mostly "backup programs" in the AOA match. You will have to decide between taking a bottom of the barrel AOA residency, or forgoing the AOA match and entering the ACGME with few/no backup options.

Fun stuff.
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having the matches in this order and making serious hard-working adults gamble with their career is so typical of these people its almost embarrassing.
 
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YankeeCandle1141 said:
They probably will all be ACGME in the 2016 match, but I am just speculating. He didnt talk about this specifically.

We will likely find out in a few weeks when ERAS goes live.




I dont know why. My guess is that they probably started the process of gaining dual accreditation years before the merger was even brought up. This stuff doesn't happen over night.




It will. Most notably the fact that the best programs will gain ACGME accreditation the fastest, leaving mostly "backup programs" in the AOA match. You will have to decide between taking a bottom of the barrel AOA residency, or forgoing the AOA match and entering the ACGME with few/no backup options.

Fun stuff.
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Not to mention everyone else will be thinking the same thing... so more DO students than ever before will be applying ACGME.
 
Just talked to a friend (who I consider a pretty reliable source) about this the other day and this is what she said after talking to a higher up in the AOA that's been heavily involved in the merger. So I can add a little more insight into the convo.

user3 said:
so would this mean the current dually accredited AOA programs join the NRMP match for 2015-2016?
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Yes. From what she was told once a program becomes dually accredited it is removed from the AOA match and becomes a part of the ACGME match. However, it's very unlikely that more than a few will do this by the 2016 match.


YankeeCandle1141 said:
They probably will all be ACGME in the 2016 match, but I am just speculating. He didnt talk about this specifically.

We will likely find out in a few weeks when ERAS goes live.

This stuff doesn't happen over night.

Fun stuff.
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Strongly disagree with the first bolded part because of the second bolded part. Apparently it will take programs 8-12 months to gain dual accreditation from when they first start the process. This is because they have to gain pre-approval, then have the programs examined, then gain actual approval, then some other stuff happens (Idk what), then actually get accredited. Currently only 8 AOA programs have begun the dual accreditation process. I'm not sure if that's 8 locations and affects all specialties there, or just 8 specific fields at 8 locations, either way it makes it unlikely that the 2016 match will be much different from the match this past year. However, I do think that with this new info current M2s and especially us M1s will be significantly affected by the time we go into the match.


YankeeCandle1141 said:
It will. Most notably the fact that the best programs will gain ACGME accreditation the fastest, leaving mostly "backup programs" in the AOA match. You will have to decide between taking a bottom of the barrel AOA residency, or forgoing the AOA match and entering the ACGME with few/no backup options.

Fun stuff.
Click to expand...

I agree with tis again, which sucks for those of us shooting for competitive specialties. As it stands I was hoping to apply to that specialty in the AOA match and only do the NRMP for a less competitive field if I didn't match AOA. With this happening though, all of those programs may be dually accredited by 2018, and if that happens I think DOs will have an extremely difficult time matching that field at all.

On top of that, if only the weaker programs remain AOA, I think there will be very few DOs applying for that and the NRMP will be more competitive than ever. While I think the merger will be a good thing in the long run, the way they're executing this merger may very well screw a lot of current DO students and near future students over.
 
Stagg737 said:
On top of that, if only the weaker programs remain AOA, I think there will be very few DOs applying for that and the NRMP will be more competitive than ever. While I think the merger will be a good thing in the long run, the way they're executing this merger may very well screw a lot of current DO students and near future students over.
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Moving the AOA match after NRMP match could mitigate this to a degree. Highly doubt that would happen, though...
 
Stagg737 said:
Just talked to a friend (who I consider a pretty reliable source) about this the other day and this is what she said after talking to a higher up in the AOA that's been heavily involved in the merger. So I can add a little more insight into the convo.



Yes. From what she was told once a program becomes dually accredited it is removed from the AOA match and becomes a part of the ACGME match. However, it's very unlikely that more than a few will do this by the 2016
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Really just wanted to quote you^ so that you would be able to see this.


I think some info is getting confusing due to the multi-quote format of both of our posts. Specifically the portion about dually accredited programs

Clarification:
Dual accreditation isn't going to exist anymore. "Current" dually accredited programs will be in the acgme match starting as soon as 2016. Eras went up today, so someone check me on that, but I am 99% sure that all of them will be out of the AOA match.

Programs "currently applying" for dual accreditation is what I was speaking about when I said stuff doesn't happen over night. My guess is that they started applying a long time ago, long before this merger nonsense even was a thing.

From 2015 forward, no program applies for "dual accreditation". They apply for ACGME accreditation only. The second they get approved, they arent AOA anymore. That process will take up to years, and they will be "pre-accredited" during that process, but they will never be "dually accredited"
 
On ERAS, a whole bunch of AOA FM programs are listed as "NP" for not participating. I've never really looked at ERAS before, does this mean anything? Or is that just the way things are listed by default before things really get going in the new residency app cycle?
 
This is still all speculation guys. I wouldn't freak out about anything or get bitter at anyone until things actually play out. I've also "heard" that programs will "transition" to the ACGME match once they are accredited, but I've also heard from PDs of dual-accredited programs that they intend to remain in the AOA match for at least the next couple years (or as long as the match continues).

As far as I understand, dual-accredited programs that are approved for their current size of ACGME spots will have no issue transitioning, and to begin with, they had the option of participating or not participating in the AOA match (some in the past preferred DOs to apply through the AOA match, and others wanted all DOs to apply through the NRMP match - this isn't something new).
 
hallowmann said:
This is still all speculation guys. I wouldn't freak out about anything or get bitter at anyone until things actually play out. I've also "heard" that programs will "transition" to the ACGME match once they are accredited, but I've also heard from PDs of dual-accredited programs that they intend to remain in the AOA match for at least the next couple years (or as long as the match continues).

As far as I understand, dual-accredited programs that are approved for their current size of ACGME spots will have no issue transitioning, and to begin with, they had the option of participating or not participating in the AOA match (some in the past preferred DOs to apply through the AOA match, and others wanted all DOs to apply through the NRMP match - this isn't something new).
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@hallowmann, get of the internets, man. That kind of calm and reason doesn't belong here.
 
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YankeeCandle1141 said:
Clarification:
Dual accreditation isn't going to exist anymore. "Current" dually accredited programs will be in the acgme match starting as soon as 2016. Eras went up today, so someone check me on that, but I am 99% sure that all of them will be out of the AOA match.

Programs "currently applying" for dual accreditation is what I was speaking about when I said stuff doesn't happen over night. My guess is that they started applying a long time ago, long before this merger nonsense even was a thing.

From 2015 forward, no program applies for "dual accreditation". They apply for ACGME accreditation only. The second they get approved, they arent AOA anymore. That process will take up to years, and they will be "pre-accredited" during that process, but they will never be "dually accredited"
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It's not happening this year. After a cursory glance through ERAS (I looked at IM and EM programs), there are many programs (I noted 5+ just in the ones I looked at) that are dually accredited and are listed as "participating" in the AOA match for this year. Many of them also have incomplete registrations, but that's because most AOA programs still have incomplete registrations and there doesn't seem to be any correlation to dual accreditation status.
 
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a runner said:
It's not happening this year. After a cursory glance through ERAS (I looked at IM and EM programs), there are many programs (I noted 5+ just in the ones I looked at) that are dually accredited and are listed as "participating" in the AOA match for this year. Many of them also have incomplete registrations, but that's because most AOA programs still have incomplete registrations and there doesn't seem to be any correlation to dual accreditation status.
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Welp. There you go.
 
It somewhat makes sense that the dual-accredited programs will maintain use of the AOA match at least for 2016. Students accepted through the AOA match are expected to complete the additional osteopathic program requirements which make their spots in the program dual-accredited. If all the spots were given out through the NRMP match, at this point how would you designate which DO residents are expected to complete the osteopathic-recognition requirements?

The Osteopathic Recognition Requirements become effective July 1st, 2015 when programs can designate all or a portion of the program as the osteopathic-focused track. I don't think any of us anticipate very many or any non-DOs acquiring osteopathic-focused track spots during the couple years; that is at least until the resources or opportunities are available for those graduates to achieve the requirement of "must have sufficient background and/or instruction in osteopathic philosophy and techniques in manipulative medicine sufficient to prepare them to engage in the curriculum of the program..."
 
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wow nova. way to embarrass the underclassmen
 
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AlteredScale said:
Wow NSU steals the one NS position at the Carilion clinic
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That's an AOA match though, still impressive. What stands out for me the most is the IM at Harbor UCLA.
 
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kenjixshadow said:
That's an AOA match though, still impressive. What stands out for me the most is the IM at Harbor UCLA.
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Yeah but it's invested with VTC School of Medicine allowing them to have phenomenal research opportunities. IMO it's equally as competitive as NS at Arrowhead Regional in CA.

Harborview is great but it's no IM match at Ronald Reagan Medical Center at UCLA!
 
Is a DO eligible to apply for a dually accredited program through the NRMP match instead of through the AOA match?
Can a DO apply for the ACGME component of a dually accredited program?
If a DO places into an ACGME residency and 2 years later that residency becomes dually accredited, is that DO now required to complete all the "osteopathic focus" stuff?

I just never want to ever do OMM ever again ever. It seems like one-by-one, ACGME residencies that I was looking into now have this dual accreditation thing. and i don't want to be stuck in a room and have my intelligence insulted every week. every hour wasted on omm is an hour that could have been spent saving a patient's life.
 
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AlteredScale said:
Yeah but it's invested with VTC School of Medicine allowing them to have phenomenal research opportunities. IMO it's equally as competitive as NS at Arrowhead Regional in CA.

Harborview is great but it's no IM match at Ronald Reagan Medical Center at UCLA!
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I just looked at IM @ UCLA. There's no DO there...yet, maybe you should try to land there lol.
 
shibby1111 said:
Is a DO eligible to apply for a dually accredited program through the NRMP match instead of through the AOA match?
Can a DO apply for the ACGME component of a dually accredited program?
If a DO places into an ACGME residency and 2 years later that residency becomes dually accredited, is that DO now required to complete all the "osteopathic focus" stuff?

I just never want to ever do OMM ever again ever. It seems like one-by-one, ACGME residencies that I was looking into now have this dual accreditation thing. and i don't want to be stuck in a room and have my intelligence insulted every week. every hour wasted on omm is an hour that could have been spent saving a patient's life.
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While I think your tone is a bit harsh with respect to the Osteopathic component of AOA residencies, and more than just a little bit hyperbolic; yes you can apply through the ACGME system to dual accredited programs as a DO. And no, if you do this you will not be required to complete the "osteopathic" components the same way the AOA residents do.

For some programs it may actually be easier to get in through the ACGME side because people doing the AOA match flock to any and all decent finally accredited programs, while the same is not necessarily true for the ACGME only applicants.

One of my interviewers assured me that I wouldn't be held to the AOA requirements of I matched with his program since I was entering through the main match. He told me that I would likely be able to participate and get AOA credit if I wanted to be dual boarded (ACOFP/AAFP). He also said competition would be stiffer for the AOA seats because there were more applicants competing for those than for his ACGME seats.
 
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actually it is darthmouth there, its run by a Sith lord. I heard he has a remarkable talent for convincing insurance companies to cover patients for pretty much any procedure.
 
QualityProcess said:
wow nova. way to embarrass the underclassmen
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Nova matches someone at Carilion and Advocate Bromenn for NS, Howard for Optho, 6 ortho, Lehigh EM and Lincoln NY EM, and a couple at Temple Rads...sounds pretty solid, what underclassmen are being embarrassed here?
 
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shibby1111 said:
Is a DO eligible to apply for a dually accredited program through the NRMP match instead of through the AOA match?
Can a DO apply for the ACGME component of a dually accredited program?
If a DO places into an ACGME residency and 2 years later that residency becomes dually accredited, is that DO now required to complete all the "osteopathic focus" stuff?...
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(1) Yes... but ask the program. Some explicitly say they will only rank DOs in the AOA match, whereas others say they prefer all DOs to apply through the AOA match. Some don't care, but you should know if they do before you rank them.

(2) Yes

(3) No, but you might get the option to. Even some dually accredited programs that match DOs through the NRMP match don't require you to fulfill the osteopathic requirements, but many usually ask you if you'd like to or not. Some eliminate this possibility of choosing for yourself by requiring DOs to apply through the AOA match, like I mention above.

I agree with SLC's assessment of your tone. Most ACGME programs that become dual accredited do so to attract DOs to their program. That's it. It's not some way to trap OMM-hating DOs into doing OMM for 3 more years.
 
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metenuzer said:
Maybe they just did that because one of the students that matched there thinks she matched at an Ivy League program when if you go to the website it clearly says 'independent community based rural family medicine residency.' Perhaps the Clinical Education office was trying to bring her into reality.
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Sorry, but that's a ridiculous explanation. For one thing, it isn't the job of the clinical ed office to bring anyone "into reality." All it does is show incompetence on THEIR part, not the student's. Also, it's not exactly accurate.

Our residency program was first accredited in 1973 and is the oldest family practice residency program in New England. We affiliated with Dartmouth Medical School in 1979 and were incorporated as the Maine-Dartmouth Family Practice Residency (MDFPR) in 1980
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https://geiselmed.dartmouth.edu/cfm/education/mainedmfp.php
 
metenuzer said:
Maybe they just did that because one of the students that matched there thinks she matched at an Ivy League program when if you go to the website it clearly says 'independent community based rural family medicine residency.' Perhaps the Clinical Education office was trying to bring her into reality.
Click to expand...

They got it right for the student who matched rads at Dartmouth-Hitchcock
 
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