Where is the chiropractor

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marymatthews

marymatthews

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sorry, not a troll, just curious why that is?
they are considered doctors i thought? Doctors of Chiropractors (DC)?
 
For the same reason Doctors of Chinese Medicine, Naturopathic Doctors, etc. aren't.
 
marymatthews said:
sorry, not a troll, just curious why that is?
they are considered doctors i thought? Doctors of Chiropractors (DC)?
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean they are doctors. Just like PharmD, OD, DPT, etc. aren't thought of as doctors.
 
i hear theres a lot of money in chiropractic care though.... chiropractors are wealthy
 
Now that I got the obligatory blame Canada joke out there...the truth is that Chiropractor's often overstep their bounds and these strokes occurred most likely after incorrect manipulation of the neck...If you go to one or know one make sure they don't touch anyones neck, they can definitely do wonder on the back, but stay the hell away from the neck.
 
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austinap said:
Chiropractors aren't considered doctors.
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Um..yes they are. Why do people always do this. There are "doctors" of all kinds of things, and yea, they are doctors. They just aren't medical doctors.
 
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marymatthews said:
its true? they make tons of money?
why dont more people go into it then?
Click to expand...

You asked if they are wealthy, and the answer is yes. Why more people don't go into it is probably because they aren't very well respected, many people see it as pseduoscience, regardless of whether or not it actually is. Also, if your true passion is to become a doctor then become a doctor don't just be a chiropractor because you can make money. That is why I compared it to other high paying jobs that many people decide to do because of that fact alone (besides the NBA where you need ridiculously pure natural talent)
 
chman said:
Um..yes they are. Why do people always do this. There are "doctors" of all kinds of things, and yea, they are doctors. They just aren't medical doctors.
Click to expand...

Because on SDN everyone but DNP's and DC's are doctors.
 
marymatthews said:
its true? they make tons of money?
why dont more people go into it then?
Click to expand...

Chiro's usually on average make around 65k-70k ( US labor, 2008). Most people don't go into them because honestly not many people want to be DC's. In all honesty that and the fact that DC's have extremely good chances of doing damage to their patients. It's simply not a smart career choice.

So low pay, hard work and hours... I think I'd rather get paid 70k on average and teach with a PhD.
 
DC's have less debt that medical school students.... average chiro school is about 30K a year i believe
There is no residency and the average chiro works 30 to 39 hours per week
Chiropractors use machines and tools to help them with their work, they rarely use their hands nowadays
 
marymatthews said:
DC's have less debt that medical school students.... average chiro school is about 30K a year i believe
There is no residency and the average chiro works 30 to 39 hours per week
Chiropractors use machines and tools to help them with their work, they rarely use their hands nowadays
Click to expand...

Good for them. If you like it so much then you go become one. I think I can speak for most and say that we are not becoming chiropractors because that is not where our interests are. Is that hard to understand or something or are you just trollin?
 
marymatthews said:
DC's have less debt that medical school students.... average chiro school is about 30K a year i believe
There is no residency and the average chiro works 30 to 39 hours per week
Chiropractors use machines and tools to help them with their work, they rarely use their hands nowadays
Click to expand...

They're REALLY not that rich.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/2009/may/oes291011.htm
They make less than many nurses. Honestly, if I had to choose between the two, I'd for sure pick nursing. Also, 30K is STILL too expensive for chiro school. I'd rather just get my Masters in engineering, my starting salary would probably be higher than that and people still don't consider engineers "rich", so I don't know where all this rich talk is coming from...
 
marymatthews said:
DC's have less debt that medical school students.... average chiro school is about 30K a year i believe
There is no residency and the average chiro works 30 to 39 hours per week
Chiropractors use machines and tools to help them with their work, they rarely use their hands nowadays
Click to expand...
Perhaps they should work more to pay off those student loans.
 
Chops369 said:
That doesn't mean they are doctors. Just like PharmD, OD, DPT, etc. aren't thought of as doctors.
Click to expand...

Woh woh woh. I get what you are trying to say but try not to lump legitimate health science fields in with chiropractors. Chiropractors are not doctors because chiropractors practice a modality that is scientifically questionable. I would trust a DPT with the care of a loved one. I would not trust a chiropractor.
 
Hey gecko where did you finally end up attending?
 
whoknows2012 said:
Now that I got the obligatory blame Canada joke out there...the truth is that Chiropractor's often overstep their bounds and these strokes occurred most likely after incorrect manipulation of the neck...If you go to one or know one make sure they don't touch anyones neck, they can definitely do wonder on the back, but stay the hell away from the neck.
Click to expand...

Sometimes they overstep their bounds. This is how I would describe those who claim that high blood pressure and cancer can be cured by a spine adjustment.

The more pervasive danger is this. Chiropractors don't train in hospitals. They don't do residencies. Their training lightly touches on non-spinal pathology but they have never been responsible for diagnosing or treating really sick people. The effect is that they don't know what they don't know.

We say this alot about NPs and PAs, but it is even more true of Chiropractors. It's not that they don't want to refer their patients to real doctors, they just don't have the skill to recognize when a person is not having a spinal issue, and instead has a sarcoma, or an non-typical expression ectopic pregnancy, appendicitis, or some other disease that now will go untreated because the patient is "seeing her doctor".

I read a really interesting article by a DO calling for the practice of chiropractic medicine to get away from "alternative" medicine and move into the mainstream by:
1. adopting more rigorous acceptance and education standards and possibly residency training.
2. Schools become affiliated with universities, start doing research and adopting evidence based practice (no more mystical energy flowing through the nerves)
3. Following the podiatrists in focusing on on aspect of the body. Non-surgical spine care. There is enough of a demand for it that chiropracters would have enough business, and wouldn't have to get into applied kinesiology, vitamin regimens, and other hogwash.

In short, he said that Chiropracters need to stop trying to sell their own special lesion, and start working at the same level as Physicians, Podiatrists, etc.
 
chman said:
Um..yes they are. Why do people always do this. There are "doctors" of all kinds of things, and yea, they are doctors. They just aren't medical doctors.
Click to expand...

Because in this context, the OP was clearly using "doctor" to mean "physician", not "someone with a doctoral degree".
 
Let me get this straight, so medical doctors (MD/DO) in general don't consider Chiropractors as peers, analogous to DPTs, DPMs etc? Do MD/DOs ever refer pts to DCs like they do to DPTs (for physical therapy case etc..)?
 
What a troll.

Bernoull said:
Let me get this straight, so medical doctors (MD/DO) in general don't consider Chiropractors as peers, analogous to DPTs, DPMs etc? Do MD/DOs ever refer pts to DCs like they do to DPTs (for physical therapy case etc..)?
Click to expand...

I don't even think chiropractry (sp?) is even based on real science. DPT and DPMs are legit.
 
Wow, this is troll-y. And Mary pulls pin and rolls grenade back into the room in 3...2...1...
 
And why post this in Pre-Allo instead of Pre-Dent, where you normally live? Chiropracy is as analogous to dentistry as it is to medicine.
 
UNMorBUST said:
Hey gecko where did you finally end up attending?
Click to expand...
USUHS. Just finishing up first year next week. (cannot come soon enough) I just learned that UNM does have a wilderness medicine rotation that I might try to do in my fourth year. I'll see though since that is still a few years away but it would be nice to get back there for a little bit. (even though from the looks of it we cover a lot of the material for that class in our extra military medicine curriculum)

Bernoull said:
Let me get this straight, so medical doctors (MD/DO) in general don't consider Chiropractors as peers, analogous to DPTs, DPMs etc? Do MD/DOs ever refer pts to DCs like they do to DPTs (for physical therapy case etc..)?
Click to expand...

(I'm assuming this is a serious question and not a troll post) A lot of the lay public is under the unfortunate misconception that chiropractors are simply experts at back pain. Really the group is a lot less scientifically founded than any legitimate health care field but had some pretty good political activists that got them to the place they are in the public view. A few doctors do refer to Chiros but from what I understand it is usually a "get this guy out of my hair" sort of thing. (after the patient hasn't responded to real medicine like PT but still expects "something") I don't think I've ever met a doctor that really truly bought into the Chiropractor explanation of their modality. (though I'm sure there are at least a few out there) A lot of chiropractor business though comes from patients who go directly to the chiropractor without the advice of a physician. (a lot like other forms of "alternative medicine")

Also to be clear I think most physicians would be a lot quicker to consider a DPT a peer than a chiropractor. A DPT might not be a physician but they are part of the same sphere of scientifically based medicine and have a legitimate experience and knowledge bas that is useful for the treatment and rehabilitation of patients. (also they aren't trying to pretend to be a physician)
 
Chiropractors are not:

1) Doctors. They're obviously not physicians, but honestly they also don't really have a doctoral level degree. They have undergraduate level training in a kind of pseudoscience. Since it doesn't build on a scientific undergraduate education it can't really be considered a doctoral level extension of undergraduate education but rather a second undergraduate degree or vocational program. The fact that you went to a 3 year carpentry program after you graduated from college does not make you a doctor of carpentry, it makes you a certified carpenter with an undergraduate degree in an unrelated subject.

2) Useful: They don't fix anything. Not asthma, not trauma, and not back pain either.

3) Profitable: While there are certainly some chiros out there that get hundreds of thousands from operating successful practices, as a whole this is the single most likely profession to default on student loans. It turns out that there is a limited demand for uselessness

4) Safe: They prevent people from recieving appropriate treatment and occasionally cause strokes and vertebral artery dissections.

5) Going to have a forum here: Chiropractors are part of the healthcare community in the sense that crack dealers are part of an urban community. Yes they're there but they're not exactly valued members of the team and I see no reason to dialogue with them.
 
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Perrotfish said:
Chiropractors are not:

1) Doctors. They're obviously not physicians, but honestly they also don't really have a doctoral level degree. They have undergraduate level training in a kind of pseudoscience. Since it doesn't build on a scientific undergraduate education it can't really be considered a doctoral level extension of undergraduate education but rather a second undergraduate degree or vocational program. The fact that you went to a 3 year carpentry program after you graduated from college does not make you a doctor of carpentry, it makes you a certified carpenter with an undergraduate degree in an unrelated subject.

2) Useful: They don't fix anything. Not asthma, not major diseases, and not back pain either.

3) Profitable: While there are certainly some chiros out there that get hundreds of thousands from operating successful practices, as a whole this is the single most likely profession to default on student loans. It turns out that there is a limited demand for uselessness

4) Safe: They prevent people from recieving appropriate treatment and occasionally cause strokes and vertebral artery dissections.

5) Going to have a forum here: Chiropractors are part of the healthcare community in the sense that crack dealers are part of an urban community. Yes they're they're but they're not exactly valued members of the team and I see no reason to dialogue with them.
Click to expand...

lol :thumbup:
 
Perrotfish said:
5) Going to have a forum here: Chiropractors are part of the healthcare community in the sense that crack dealers are part of an urban community. Yes they're there but they're not exactly valued members of the team and I see no reason to dialogue with them.
Click to expand...

Chiropractors might be even on a lower standing in the healthcare community than the crack dealer in the urban community... at least the crack dealer peddles real crack. chiropractry would be the equivalent of selling baggies of sugar (or whatever cocaine resembles) and telling people it's crack.
 
austinap said:
Because in this context, the OP was clearly using "doctor" to mean "physician", not "someone with a doctoral degree".
Click to expand...

You're right. After rereading it I concur. I just feel that people on here are too defensive about that sometimes...
 
marymatthews said:
DC's have less debt that medical school students.... average chiro school is about 30K a year i believe
There is no residency and the average chiro works 30 to 39 hours per week
Chiropractors use machines and tools to help them with their work, they rarely use their hands nowadays
Click to expand...

If it is 30k a year tuition, then there isn't a significant difference in debt between the two, especially relative to income potential. Most DCs don't make tons of money. But anyway, 30k a year and then you have housing on top of that.

So, 4ish years (some are slightly shorter). For the sake of math and to be nice, I will say 3.5 years.

3.5x30k = 105,000

Then, I'll be nice and say housing, food, travel expenses, utilities, and a life outside of school is only 10,000 a year. That is another 35,000 dollars.

So, by being really nice and super conservative in cost we are still at 140,000 which is only about 10,000 less than the average med student debt.

Your new business, which they most likely didn't teach you how to operate will then have tremendous overhead involving fancy new equipment, rent, staffing, etc. The first few years will rarely involve you making the 70-80k and if you are worth anything, you will be cranking out serious hours for the first few years you're out. So, no...financially it isn't very wise.
 
Im sorry, by 30K tuition I was including room and board
tuition is 20K a year
theres really no overhead if youre an associate, and if you open your own practice, the overhead is less than 20%.... malpractice insurance fees are the lowest of any health field at about $4000 a year.... the machine are very cheap... and they are one time purchases
(dentists have overhead fees of about 60%)
the first few years you can make minimum 80K... i checked job posts for chiropractors in my area (willing to hire recent graduates) on craigslist.com
 
SirGecko said:
USUHS. Just finishing up first year next week. (cannot come soon enough) I just learned that UNM does have a wilderness medicine rotation that I might try to do in my fourth year. I'll see though since that is still a few years away but it would be nice to get back there for a little bit. (even though from the looks of it we cover a lot of the material for that class in our extra military medicine curriculum)



(I'm assuming this is a serious question and not a troll post) A lot of the lay public is under the unfortunate misconception that chiropractors are simply experts at back pain. Really the group is a lot less scientifically founded than any legitimate health care field but had some pretty good political activists that got them to the place they are in the public view. A few doctors do refer to Chiros but from what I understand it is usually a "get this guy out of my hair" sort of thing. (after the patient hasn't responded to real medicine like PT but still expects "something") I don't think I've ever met a doctor that really truly bought into the Chiropractor explanation of their modality. (though I'm sure there are at least a few out there) A lot of chiropractor business though comes from patients who go directly to the chiropractor without the advice of a physician. (a lot like other forms of "alternative medicine")

Also to be clear I think most physicians would be a lot quicker to consider a DPT a peer than a chiropractor. A DPT might not be a physician but they are part of the same sphere of scientifically based medicine and have a legitimate experience and knowledge bas that is useful for the treatment and rehabilitation of patients. (also they aren't trying to pretend to be a physician)
Click to expand...

Thanks for response. It was a genuine question, I have only heard of chiropractors in the US and not in other countries I've lived in therefore I don't know a lot about them.
 
Perrotfish said:
Chiropractors are not:

1) Doctors. They're obviously not physicians, but honestly they also don't really have a doctoral level degree. They have undergraduate level training in a kind of pseudoscience. Since it doesn't build on a scientific undergraduate education it can't really be considered a doctoral level extension of undergraduate education but rather a second undergraduate degree or vocational program. The fact that you went to a 3 year carpentry program after you graduated from college does not make you a doctor of carpentry, it makes you a certified carpenter with an undergraduate degree in an unrelated subject.
Click to expand...

To play devils advocate for a minute; you seem to be suggesting that someone only becomes a "doctor" if they build on undergraduate education in the same subject. Many people get doctoral degrees in subjects unrelated to their undergrad, including medical doctors (I'm not telling you anything you don't know obviously, but I'm just trying to understand..).
 
chman said:
To play devils advocate for a minute; you seem to be suggesting that someone only becomes a "doctor" if they build on undergraduate education in the same subject. Many people get doctoral degrees in subjects unrelated to their undergrad, including medical doctors (I'm not telling you anything you don't know obviously, but I'm just trying to understand..).
Click to expand...

I think he's calling the DC an "undergraduate level training in a kind of pseudoscience", not talking about a DC's undergraduate major itself. In fact, I believe a college degree isn't required to become a chiropractor.
 
marymatthews said:
Im sorry, by 30K tuition I was including room and board
tuition is 20K a year
theres really no overhead if youre an associate, and if you open your own practice, the overhead is less than 20%.... malpractice insurance fees are the lowest of any health field at about $4000 a year.... the machine are very cheap... and they are one time purchases
(dentists have overhead fees of about 60%)
the first few years you can make minimum 80K... i checked job posts for chiropractors in my area (willing to hire recent graduates) on craigslist.com
Click to expand...

who gives a crap. it's pseudoscientific smut. it's not evidence-based. it's alternative medicine (aka, s***)
 
Fact: If you have a degree with the letter "D" in it, you're a "doctor".

Any other definition of "doctor" is incorrect, no exceptions.
 
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