2011 Match

dtrack, where did you read that these residencies scrambled?

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/2011_UnfilledPositions.pdf

linked from the www.aacpm.org website

it's at www.casprcrip.org, link on home page. 126 students scrambling for 64 slots today.

dtrack22 said:

...Dekalb all scrambled...

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I'd be extremely suprised if DeKalb actually scrambled all 4 of their spots and is taking apps. I bet they just had to opt out of formal match since they interview at the hospital and not at CRIPS (or at least they always did historically?). IMHO, it's probably the best pod F&A surg residency program in the country and they probably get 40+ clerk and visiting students for only 4 spots per cycle, so even though the hours are ruthless, I find it hard to believe they didn't match even one of the primary/alternate students who they ranked this cycle. I'd imagine they wanted to interview at their hospital during CRIPS and that made them in some interview timeline violation of CASPR formalities. We'll see... but I bet they will just take down the spots off the scramble list. If those spots are actually up for grabs, then I'd encourage any scrambling students who is smart and willing to work hard in residency to call Dr. Alder ASAP.

...Even good programs scramble from time to time and competition for each one is variable; every year is unique in students' geographic and program characteristics. Congrats to all who matched today

Feli said:

I'd be extremely suprised if DeKalb actually scrambled all 4 of their spots and is taking apps. I bet they just had to opt out of formal match since they interview at the hospital and not at CRIPS. IMHO, it's probably the best pod F&A surg residency program in the country and they probably get 40+ clerk and visiting students for only 4 spots per cycle, so even though the hours are ruthless, I find it hard to believe they didn't match even one of the primary/alternate students who they ranked this cycle. I'd imagine they wanted to interview at the hospital during CRIPS and that made them in some violation of CASPR formalities. We'll see... but I bet they will just take down the spots off the scramble list.

Even good programs scramble from time to time and competition for each one is variable; every year is unique in students' geographic and program characteristics. Congrats to all who matched today

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i had a buddy who interviewed there and i'm pretty sure he interviewed with them in Dallas. (also it looks like they had 5 spots this year so they matched 1/5. Grants did a little better with 2/4.)

PodunkUDPM said:

i had a buddy who interviewed there and i'm pretty sure he interviewed with them in Dallas. (also it looks like they had 5 spots this year so they matched 1/5. Grants did a little better with 2/4.)

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Thanks for clairification. I didn't know they were now going to CRIP, and I also didn't know they'd upped to 5 residents/yr. You learn somethin new every day.

I hope they can somehow find strong students in scramble who are up to the task. It's a very good, but very intense, program that's excellent but certainly not for everyone.

I thought Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center was one of the best? Why did it go unmatched?

Kidsfeet said:

That's not how the system is designed. It works in the favor of the student in that the student gets first selection of his/her top programs. So if a residency selects a bunch of potential residents and those people selected other programs in a higher priority and were matched, it's possible that even the top notch programs can have unmatched positions.

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Yes a great applicant may be ranked by every program they applied to number 1. The good programs may have the same top 5 (in different order) and if they only rank those five or a few others may be left without a match and forced to scramble. We have intentionally ranked 4-5 times the number of positions since it is possible to be burned if you only rank a handful. The scramble works out most of the time but it is often a mad rush and you may find yourself gambling on someone you never interviewed.

The crazy part is that students may be told you are our 7th pick or even 15th and they often assume the program will not go that low or their egos get bruised and they get mad at a program. That is why I say as a student you should rank the programs in the order that YOU want them regardless of their ranking of you. You will still get the highest program on your list that also ranked you and got to your number. Being 7th or even 20th at a program may simply mean that those above you may be selected elsewhere (often by many programs) and 7 in reality is actually 1 or 2 or 3.

Creflo said:

it's at www.casprcrip.org, link on home page. 126 students scrambling for 64 slots today.

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I too have a question as a incoming pod student.

Does this mean that there are 62 students this year who are not going to get a residency?

I'm curious to know of the 62 that don't get a residency, how many of them have passed boards?

Kidsfeet said:

I know it happens and is inevitable, but programs really should not be telling students anything about were they will be ranked. This has caused more heartache than anything with eager students imho.

Excellent advice about students ranking the way they want to.

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Telling the applicants their rank is permitted. Forcing them to commit is not. We tell them as a courtesy. Many programs will let the applicants know their rank. It let's someone know where they sit in the scheme of things. If someone knows we are ranking them one and they truly want to come to our program, it saves them time and money. If someone is not ranked it let's them focus on alternatives.

It's really a disadvantage to a program not the students.

i also would like to know if there is any way to see what schools these students went to...

obviously the schools would never release this info tho

jonwill said:

I'm curious to know of the 62 that don't get a residency, how many of them have passed boards?

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part 1 or part 2?

anyways, a little advice to you people for next year: no matter WHAT a program says they are going to rank you, DON'T BELIEVE THEM. Rank each program as you really feel. And don't cancel ANY of your interviews, even if you have a really good one where they say they're going to "rank you #1".

jonwill said:

I'm curious to know of the 62 that don't get a residency, how many of them have passed boards?

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hopefully the answer will soon be "this is an impossible situation, you must pass boards to apply to residency/graduate college."

Podfather said:

We tell them as a courtesy. Many programs will let the applicants know their rank. It let's someone know where they sit in the scheme of things.

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So should students contact the program again once all externs have rotated through? I ask this because it seems your potential rank could fluctuate up or down depending on the students that pass through the program after you. Or I guess what I am asking is when do you ask a program how they are ranking you, right before the match?

We were told at out school that those sixty that are without a spot as of now do count the students that are reapplying from previous years. Also not all of this years students will pass part II boards. We won't see till later how many qualified students get the shaft...

sorham said:

We were told at out school that those sixty that are without a spot as of now do count the students that are reapplying from previous years. Also not all of this years students will pass part II boards. We won't see till later how many qualified students get the shaft...

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"qualified" is a tricky word. Lets say "graduating students who have passed boards I and II"

PodunkUDPM said:

part 1 or part 2?

anyways, a little advice to you people for next year: no matter WHAT a program says they are going to rank you, DON'T BELIEVE THEM. Rank each program as you really feel. And don't cancel ANY of your interviews, even if you have a really good one where they say they're going to "rank you #1".

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I take offense to that. Our program has always been up front and honest and to be blunt find just the opposite. People saying we are where they want to go and then we never see them. I am not recommending canceling any interviews but individuals should do what I said above; rank who you want and quit trying to figure out some strategy.

hightower said:

So should students contact the program again once all externs have rotated through? I ask this because it seems your potential rank could fluctuate up or down depending on the students that pass through the program after you. Or I guess what I am asking is when do you ask a program how they are ranking you, right before the match?

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I wouldn't ask. If they have a policy to tell the applicants they will tell you. We do it at interviews. Again if program X is your number one pick what they tell you or not tell you shouldn't matter. Rank the program number 1 and so on.

PodunkUDPM said:

..no matter WHAT a program says they are going to rank you, DON'T BELIEVE THEM. Rank each program as you really feel.

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Podfather said:

I take offense to that. Our program has always been up front and honest and to be blunt find just the opposite.

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I hope you're not too offended, there were at least 2 residents this year who admitted (openly, I'm sure there were more who were too embarrassed to admit they made this mistake) they only ranked 1 program based on the PD's feedback after interviews and were left scrambling.

In the student's best interest, the three main points I've learned are:
1. Rank more than 1 program
2. Rank them according to YOUR preference.
3. Take their feedback into consideration when ranking, but negative feedback is more useful when making a decision to rank a program low (if at all) than positive feedback is to rank a program high (especially only one program). They want every good student to rank them high, so it's in their best interest to tell every good student they are at the top. It makes no sense for them to lie about your negative performance.

Quick question regarding those that matched, when will the student receive a contract from the program that makes the match "official?"

The match process was a stressful time for me for a couple of reasons.

First, as a 3rd year student, I had a difficult time learning about the residency programs out there when scheduling my fourth year. Had I known more, I would have made different externship choices.

Second, as a 4th year student, you wonder how to play your cards right regarding what to tell programs about interest level, etc.

After going through it, I'll give my two cents. I most respect the programs that played by the rules and didn't ask me for a commitment. I found myself wondering what they thought of me, but if you ask for feedback midway through the externship you may get some clues. If you do your best as a student and only apply to programs that you're interested in, and aren't forced to give a ranking, it should work out well in the end for all involved. If you really want a program, tell them. It doesn't mean that you have to tell them they are number one, but let them know how happy you would be there. Go back and visit in December/January to solidify your interest. And for programs that press for a commitment that you know aren't gonna be #1 but that you would be happy at, just let them know that you would be really happy there and that you would appreciate their consideration.

One other tip, I know of several students who ranked only a couple of programs. It worked for many of them, but caspr says that this is one of the biggest reasons students scramble.

sorham said:

We were told at out school that those sixty that are without a spot as of now do count the students that are reapplying from previous years. Also not all of this years students will pass part II boards. We won't see till later how many qualified students get the shaft...

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Heres what caspr says:
Statistics from the 2011 Match:

• Positions available: 493
• Contending applicants: 555
• Matched applicants: 429
• Positions unfilled: 64
• Applicants unmatched: 126

schools that scrambled:
ohio 30
temple 18
new york 7
scholl 27
others?

seems there will be a shortage of about 60. to students that put down 1 program have no one to thank but themselvs

Kidsfeet said:

Don't. I'm sure you are honest and up front, but there are MANY out there who aren't. Students need to look out for their best interests and I agree that they should do their thing and not try to figure out a strategy.

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Agreed. The program I graduated from did tell students where they were ranked. They were always upfront and honest about it. However, I do have a couple friends who were told by various programs where they were ranked and it ended up not being true. I don't think it happens very often but it does happen.

Wondering if anyone could provide the link detailing the school scramble breakdown...

UNVME2 said:

I hope you're not too offended, there were at least 2 residents this year who admitted (openly, I'm sure there were more who were too embarrassed to admit they made this mistake) they only ranked 1 program based on the PD's feedback after interviews and were left scrambling.

In the student's best interest, the three main points I've learned are:
1. Rank more than 1 program
2. Rank them according to YOUR preference.
3. Take their feedback into consideration when ranking, but negative feedback is more useful when making a decision to rank a program low (if at all) than positive feedback is to rank a program high (especially only one program). They want every good student to rank them high, so it's in their best interest to tell every good student they are at the top. It makes no sense for them to lie about your negative performance.

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Sound advice. Those students should report those programs to CASPR. I guess the people I hang with that have residencies are the good eggs.

I thought it was against the rules to tell students their exact rank.

EDIT:
I just looked up the rules and I was mistaken. I think I mixed this up with the rule that programs cannot offer a student a spot before the match.

farrell said:

schools that scrambled:
ohio 30
temple 18
new york 7
scholl 27
others?

seems there will be a shortage of about 60. to students that put down 1 program have no one to thank but themselvs

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I have it on the up and up OCPM only scrambled 17. That Scholl number is correct from what I've heard as well.

PodunkUDPM said:

I have it on the up and up OCPM only scrambled 17. That Scholl number is correct from what I've heard as well.

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Can you confirm that 27 people from Scholl did not get a residency this year? If this is the case I am not going there next year.

emericana said:

Can you confirm that 27 people from Scholl did not get a residency this year? If this is the case I am not going there next year.

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I can only officially confirm OCPM has 17 in the scramble.

I have heard Scholl has 27 students in the scramble from multiple classmates (who have friends there) and a student APMA representative, so take it for what you will.

emericana said:

Can you confirm that 27 people from Scholl did not get a residency this year? If this is the case I am not going there next year.

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It doesn't mean that they didn't get a residency. It means that they did not match so now they must "scramble" to get one. Hopefully, many of them will get one.

Ankle Breaker said:

Wow this is accurate information coming from someone who goes to OCPM.

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So it is accurate then?

emericana said:

Can you confirm that 27 people from Scholl did not get a residency this year? If this is the case I am not going there next year.

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It's not the schools fault. You would be surprised how many Scholl students plan on riding the "Scholl reputation" and say things like "grades don't matter" and " don't worry...you go to Scholl!". Just because those before were successful does not guarantee that you will also be successful. Reputation won't help you when an attending asks you a question that you are expected to know.

Ankle Breaker said:

I was actually mocking you. I really dislike it when students deny information about their own school (OCPM having 30 people scramble) and then confirm information about another. Especially when they don't even attend the school. Whether its true or not, I still maintain Scholl accepts too many unqualified students which leads to possible stats stated above. BUT again there are a lot of different factors that could have resulted in students scrambling. This conversation could be all for naught in a couple of months when we finally find out the final numbers of who ended up matching from the scramble and who didn't. I will leave it at that.

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i obviously stated I can confirm about OCPM and only speculate from what I heard from others about Scholl.

Barry scrambled 18

dtrack22 said:

Is your program preparing those kids to do well on rotations and land good programs?

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It's interesting that if you say it that way, you put the burden of responsibility on the School. Three years ago I would have looked at that statement and agreed. After three years of school I can honestly say everyone has all the books, is taught the same information, but it was MY effort to get involved, ask questions, and read outside articles that got me where I am.

I learned quickly that the clinical education is more fast paced than the basic sciences. In my opinion what you know going into externships (and coming out) is more of a reflection of you as a student rather than the school.

Curious as to why none of the California programs scrambled. Is California that hot a place for residency?

darazon said:

Curious as to why none of the California programs scrambled. Is California that hot a place for residency?

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I'm sure they did, but nobody on here knows how many... the #'s posted only represent about half the people that were in the scramble so they had to come from somewhere