2 pharmacy schools shut down, which ones next

[vesfly]

What is their normal class size? I tried to look on their website and couldn't find anything, but did find where 100% of their class of 2016 was employed within 6 months of graduation (doesn't specific that they were actually employed as pharmacists or in a job requiring a pharmacist degree.) We all know why that stat hasn't been updated since 2016.

From what I hear from my interns it has been shrinking consistently over the past 5 years. They did have over a hundred in each class the first few years they were open. I think my P4 student now has about 60 in her class and I heard there were under 40 in the class that just finished their P1 year. Not sure how much longer they can afford to stay afloat with these numbers. Add in the fact that it is a coinflip if you will pass your Naplex after graduation.

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[Dred Pirate]

Indeed, we all know why they haven't updated that statistic since 2016.

A better question is why have they allowed a dated statistic to remain on their website? They should remove stuff that leads to obvious questions where the answer is a negative. That's poor marketing.

UNC used to make their data public as well. I don’t think they have for the past 5 years or so.

 

[AC3_PharmD]

UNC used to make their data public as well. I don’t think they have for the past 5 years or so.

Pharm.D. Students - UNC Eshelman School of Pharmacy

Doctor of Pharmacy Incoming Student Characteristics The Pharm.D. is a professional degree for pharmacists similar to the M.D. for physicians or D.D.S. for dentists. Typical applicants have solid grades in their science and math prerequisite courses (letter grade of C … Read more

pharmacy.unc.edu

I was about to say this is incorrect. The numbers also breakdown residency, fellowship etc although I think they lump them all under post-grad employment. They're actually pretty good about posting these stats annually - as an alumni I try to check lol

 

[Dred Pirate]

Pharm.D. Students - UNC Eshelman School of Pharmacy

Doctor of Pharmacy Incoming Student Characteristics The Pharm.D. is a professional degree for pharmacists similar to the M.D. for physicians or D.D.S. for dentists. Typical applicants have solid grades in their science and math prerequisite courses (letter grade of C … Read more

pharmacy.unc.edu

I was about to say this is incorrect. The numbers also breakdown residency, fellowship etc although I think they lump them all under post-grad employment. They're actually pretty good about posting these stats annually - as an alumni I try to check lol

Thanks for the correction. I couldn’t find it a year ago or so. Wow. One person got a job at a hospital right out of school. Guess I was lucky. Lol (I didn’t go to unc)

 

[AC3_PharmD]

Thanks for the correction. I couldn’t find it a year ago or so. Wow. One person got a job at a hospital right out of school. Guess I was lucky. Lol (I didn’t go to unc)

I will say it's hard to find aka buried on the site. And yeah there's such a push now for residencies. I think my year maybe 2 people went in

 

[O.State]

100% of their class of 2016 was employed within 6 months of graduation

ahh good ole 2016 job market

 

[Mickey2362]

I live in the California Central Valley and the "update:word out is that CHSU hired a new Dean from Hawaii or somewhere. They are still trying to obtain accreditation! REally??!! How many times do you need to be denied and you still want to take students money and offer them a false sense of obtaining a wonderful job in pharmacy??!!

They have saturated the Central Valley, as well as contributed to the saturation of the state of California. They have also contributed to the lowering of Pharmacists wages, as well as the beginnings of our employers not seeing value in our profession.
CHSU, do us all a favor and SHUT DOWN!!

You have no value. You only care about recruiting pharmacy students for tuition, so that you can apply it to the so-called DO school you have started. No one think that you have credibility. You are recruiting 2yr community college students straight into Pharmacy School. Your students have rotated through our hospital, and they have no clue.

I am specifically against "For Profit" healthcare schools. Every healthcare school (RN, Pharmacy, MD, DO, etc...) should be affiliated with a "University". End of discussion. This will hopefully set the tone for some quality, legitimate, schools.

Everyone needs to contact the ACPE-The accreditation board for Pharmacy. I have, and so have many of my professional colleagues.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

ahh good ole 2016 job market

the 2021 job market makes 2016 look like the boom times of 2006

 

[quickpic007]

I live in the California Central Valley and the "update:word out is that CHSU hired a new Dean from Hawaii or somewhere. They are still trying to obtain accreditation! REally??!! How many times do you need to be denied and you still want to take students money and offer them a false sense of obtaining a wonderful job in pharmacy??!!

They have saturated the Central Valley, as well as contributed to the saturation of the state of California. They have also contributed to the lowering of Pharmacists wages, as well as the beginnings of our employers not seeing value in our profession.
CHSU, do us all a favor and SHUT DOWN!!

You have no value. You only care about recruiting pharmacy students for tuition, so that you can apply it to the so-called DO school you have started. No one think that you have credibility. You are recruiting 2yr community college students straight into Pharmacy School. Your students have rotated through our hospital, and they have no clue.

I am specifically against "For Profit" healthcare schools. Every healthcare school (RN, Pharmacy, MD, DO, etc...) should be affiliated with a "University". End of discussion. This will hopefully set the tone for some quality, legitimate, schools.

Everyone needs to contact the ACPE-The accreditation board for Pharmacy. I have, and so have many of my professional colleagues.

Whats the update on retail jobs in this area? I heard cvs needs people bad again from Bakersfield all the way through Sacramento?

 

[PharmD or nursing]

If pharmacy schools are shutdown, how about their faculty? Will they loose their jobs? What should they do?

 

[VA77]

If pharmacy schools are shutdown, how about their faculty? Will they loose their jobs? What should they do?

They can always sell used cars since they have prior experience

 

[Dred Pirate]

If pharmacy schools are shutdown, how about their faculty? Will they loose their jobs? What should they do?

why are we concerned?

 

[PharmD or nursing]

why are we concerned?

My friend is a pharmacy faculty.... just got tenured in a private school

 

[Dred Pirate]

My friend is a pharmacy faculty.... just got tenured in a private school

although I feel bad for anyone losing their job, I just can't feel sorry for anyone in the academic world that appears to have contributed so much to this mess - now if they were at an established school (pre-1980) my feelings are different

 

[PharmtoCS]

although I feel bad for anyone losing their job, I just can't feel sorry for anyone in the academic world that appears to have contributed so much to this mess - now if they were at an established school (pre-1980) my feelings are different

They benefited from the proliferation of pharmacy schools and the subsequent destruction of our profession. Now it’s their turn to feel the pain of the vast majority of us.

 

[Heroic Combo]

View attachment 339724

Hopefully we see both Husson and UNE dissappear in a few years.

That would be 100% of the pharmacy schools in the State of Maine. Do we really want ZERO schools in the state?

 

[Dred Pirate]

That would be 100% of the pharmacy schools in the State of Maine. Do we really want ZERO schools in the state?

I know nothing about the quality of those schools but it can’t be to far from some of the other schools in the NE area. I wouldn’t care about arbitrary state lines

 

[VA77]

No sympathy at all for any of these schools. Perpetrated fraud for years and deserve to have assets seized by the DoJ to help offset the millions that students will not be able to payback.

 

[PharmtoCS]

If pharmacy schools are shutdown, how about their faculty? Will they loose their jobs? What should they do?

They can join the rest of us in the CVS economy of falling wages, difficulty of finding jobs, terrible and unsafe work conditions, lack of respect and prestige, etc. that they themselves created for us while they hid in their now collapsing ivory towers.

 

[BidingMyTime]

If pharmacy schools are shutdown, how about their faculty? Will they loose their jobs? What should they do?

What did the elevator operators do when elevators became electronic? What did the horse sellers do when cars took over? Yes, I feel for anyone who has lost a job and ideally there would be a "safety net" to help them transition to another career. But artificially keep jobs that the ecnomy doesn't need is not the answer.

 

[vesfly]

I have heard that UNE had 2 students for next fall so far that have put down a deposit. Still early but from what I have heard at this point they are usually at about 50% of their total class size. I also know that numerous professors have left or in the process of leaving after next semester. Hopefully this is the end.

 

[sfachine]

Declining enrollments are not unique to pharmacy schools.Higher ed is facing a demographic meltdown.Good.

 

[Dred Pirate]

My school- which has been around since the 1800's only had 65 people in their white coat ceremony last year - I graduated with 104. And we aren't a diploma mill as we had the one of the highest residency match rates in the country, but are a private school and that 35k a year pricetag (or whatever it is now) is turning away people I assume.

 

[Mickey2362]

OK so we finally have two pharmacy schools shut down - Hampton University's appeal got denied and California Health Sciences University (CHSU) did not progress to accredited status - https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/ReportofProceedingsJulyandAugust2020FINAL.pdf

Which are the next 5 to go down - any guesses?

My wild guesses -

Larkin and AUHS do not progress to accredited status (like CHSU)
Chicago State
Not sure what the fifth one could be

Heard CHSU is still open and trying to get accredited yet again. What will it take for students to realize that this school is only trying to generate money for their so-called DO school? If you can't get accredited several times that means there is something seriously wrong and students only go there because they can't get in anywhere else. All "for-profit" pharmacy schools, med schools, any professional schools should have to be affiliated with a University. California is a classic example of allowing too many pharmacy schools; thus saturating our profession, downgrading our profession, and creating a job market that has become very dismal. And in the end, the students suffer because after graduation they realize that for a fraction of the cost and education-they could have become a nurse or nurse practitioner.

 

[VA77]

All the schools are trying to determine what they can survive on with the declining enrollments. Seen a number of schools where some of the faculty have left and the School didn't rehire so they can cut down on payroll. You really got to wonder what these students are paying for now.

 

[BenJammin]

Declining enrollments are not unique to pharmacy schools.Higher ed is facing a demographic meltdown.Good.

Isn't that by design? Law schools just saw a record number of applicants yet enrollment is still down.

 

[sfachine]

Isn't that by design? Law schools just saw a record number of applicants yet enrollment is still down.

The college age population is shrinking.Top schools will do fine.Less competitive schools are in trouble.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Isn't that by design? Law schools just saw a record number of applicants yet enrollment is still down.

I think we are getting away form the "everybody has to college" mentality - which isn't a bad thing. There are too many kids going to college to work in jobs that simply don't require a college education. That is money and time wasted.

 

[297point1]

I think we are getting away form the "everybody has to college" mentality - which isn't a bad thing. There are too many kids going to college to work in jobs that simply don't require a college education. That is money and time wasted.

I would be incredibly pleased if either of my daughters went into the plumbing or electrical business. Everyone needs a handyman every now and then, and many would prefer a handywoman if they had a choice.

 

[BidingMyTime]

My school- which has been around since the 1800's only had 65 people in their white coat ceremony last year - I graduated with 104. And we aren't a diploma mill as we had the one of the highest residency match rates in the country, but are a private school and that 35k a year pricetag (or whatever it is now) is turning away people I assume.

Sounds like we went to the same pharmacy school. Or maybe the steep decline in enrollment and steep incline in tuition is just similar among pharmacy schools. It is actually the latter, enrollment has dropped in my alma mater, but not yet as low as yours. Tuition at mine is just as outrageous, I am blessed to have went to pharmacy school when I did....because I love being a pharmacist, but with today's outrageous tuition and ROI, I would not do it.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Sounds like we went to the same pharmacy school. Or maybe the steep decline in enrollment and steep incline in tuition is just similar among pharmacy schools. It is actually the latter, enrollment has dropped in my alma mater, but not yet as low as yours. Tuition at mine is just as outrageous, I am blessed to have went to pharmacy school when I did....because I love being a pharmacist, but with today's outrageous tuition and ROI, I would not do it.

one of my friends is on the board of trustees for my undergrad school- a small private school with above average academics, but not necessarily a national name by any means. Enrollment is down about 10% from when I graduated (which was the largest class in school history). Another small private liberal arts school in our state apparently has been on the edge of closing down a couple of times - it also is a good school, just super expensive. I have a feeling there is going to be some hurt coming to a lot of these private schools in the near future.

 

[vesfly]

View attachment 339724

Hopefully we see both Husson and UNE dissappear in a few years.

now I am hearing 11 students lined up for the upcoming Fall class. Also 2 more professors I know are done and they have yet to replace any of the numerous professors they have lost over the past couple years.

 

[VA77]

Another private school crying about declining enrollment and now wanting taxpayers to foot some of the bill.

Tennessee lawmaker looking to bridge tuition gap for ETSU College of Pharmacy

Third year ETSU Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy student Hannah Brumitt says it's been her dream to attend the ETSU pharmacy school since the eighth grade. Brumitt said, "I loved their mission and that they wanted to work and serve rural area communities, and help those in any way they possibly...

wcyb.com

 

[projektreverb]

38k a year… Good lord…

 

[Chrish]

I don’t think pharmacy administration would be lucrative these days. I reckon kids are finally understanding the reality.

 

[Chrish]

I would be incredibly pleased if either of my daughters went into the plumbing or electrical business. Everyone needs a handyman every now and then, and many would prefer a handywoman if they had a choice.

Is there any female plumber out there? Genuinely curious. Never seen one.

You can indeed make serious money. You have to be good though. When people are dropping $400-500, they want to see result.

 

[sfachine]

Another private school crying about declining enrollment and now wanting taxpayers to foot some of the bill.

Tennessee lawmaker looking to bridge tuition gap for ETSU College of Pharmacy

Third year ETSU Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy student Hannah Brumitt says it's been her dream to attend the ETSU pharmacy school since the eighth grade. Brumitt said, "I loved their mission and that they wanted to work and serve rural area communities, and help those in any way they possibly...

wcyb.com

I guess lowering tuition or innovating to decrease costs is not an option. Why bother when you can get a taxpayer handout.

 

[mentos]

Is there any female plumber out there? Genuinely curious. Never seen one.

You can indeed make serious money. You have to be good though. When people are dropping $400-500, they want to see result.

Yes I've hired a female master plumber before. She installed a new tub and shower pipes and vents. Her work was good but she was kinda crazy, former alcoholic. Ended up walking away from the job, I had to find another plumber to finish off the shower valve and tub spout. Not saying all female plumbers are like this, just my one experience with one.

 

[Dred Pirate]

now I am hearing 11 students lined up for the upcoming Fall class. Also 2 more professors I know are done and they have yet to replace any of the numerous professors they have lost over the past couple years.

which school only has 11 students?

 

[VA77]

which school only has 11 students?

Either Husson or New England. Both together might make 30. Some of these schools will have their fate decided by Financials and we won't have to wait on ACPE and that is what they are hoping so they don't have to get dirty and do their job.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Either Husson or New England. Both together might make 30. Some of these schools will have their fate decided by Financials and we won't have to wait on ACPE and that is what they are hoping so they don't have to get dirty and do their job.

that is great news- I have heard of the schools, but don't have any input on their quality - are they the typical overpriced new private school diploma mill?

 

[VA77]

that is great news- I have heard of the schools, but don't have any input on their quality - are they the typical overpriced new private school diploma mill?

Yeah they are private and NE started about 6 or 7 years ago and Husson was just a little earlier but both started in last decade which they should have known the admission numbers turning south especially in the saturated NE.

 

[vesfly]

I’m

which school only has 11 students?

UNE

 

[BidingMyTime]

Is there any female plumber out there? Genuinely curious. Never seen one.

You can indeed make serious money. You have to be good though. When people are dropping $400-500, they want to see result.

I've hired a female plumber before. She did a sub-par job, but I've had a male plumber also do a sub-par job. It can be hard to find a good plumber.

 

[baronzb]

law school has a phony 'sexiness' to it because of tv and the Supreme Court. What does pharmacy have? I mean, I remember what students were thinking in my day, but most of that has evaporated.
I mention this because the perception of law by the public buttresses the dream to go to law.

 

[Xenophylia]

Yeah. I would imagine it's pretty hard to portray the practice of pharmacy in a "sexy" manner....LOL

 

[greyeyedone73]

I would probably go with top 50. Before the pharmacy school expansion, there were like 80 pharmacy schools for many years, and that was a good number for equilibrium.



We've had the Hawaii College of Pharmacy thread here for a warning. 99.9% of the time, it is a bad idea to go to a school that does not yet have accreditation. With pharmacy schools, it's probably 99.99999999999999999999% of the time. It's an extreme gamble that is not worth it for anyone, when there are so many other accredited schools. I feel sorry for the students who were undoubtedly lied to by the administration and their high school/college counselors into thinking this was in anyway a reasonable gamble.



At this point I think there are more schools waiving the PCAT requirement, then there are schools still requiring it.

Entry to pharmacy schools need to change… make the PCAT & BS degree a mandatory minimum. I didn’t waive the PCAT when applying I had a decent GPA and studied my ass off to get in…. too many schools with minimum requirements to get in……

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

Another private school crying about declining enrollment and now wanting taxpayers to foot some of the bill.

Tennessee lawmaker looking to bridge tuition gap for ETSU College of Pharmacy

Third year ETSU Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy student Hannah Brumitt says it's been her dream to attend the ETSU pharmacy school since the eighth grade. Brumitt said, "I loved their mission and that they wanted to work and serve rural area communities, and help those in any way they possibly...

wcyb.com

"it's been her dream to attend the ETSU pharmacy school since the eighth grade"

What a sad dream.

 

[baronzb]

Entry to pharmacy schools need to change… make the PCAT & BS degree a mandatory minimum. I didn’t waive the PCAT when applying I had a decent GPA and studied my ass off to get in…. too many schools with minimum requirements to get in……

It would only result in the financial failure of another 8 schools.
Law admissions cratered last decade but reached a nadir in 2017. It's been recovering until this year and will probably be in a range that will unethically support the current 198 schools or so, half of grads not getting lawyer jobs.
The key question is, will failed pre-meds do something else--optometry, PT are having similar oversupply/school issues.
Dental is small, nursing is gender-focused.

 

[Dred Pirate]

"it's been her dream to attend the ETSU pharmacy school since the eighth grade"

What a sad dream.

nightmares are dreams to0