* * 2011-2012 Letter of Recommendation Thread!! * *

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Shame indeed on the DO doc! By maybe he/she wrote their own letter when they were applying and just give you the bad advice to do it yourself! lol

Members don't see this ad.
 
SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!! ARRRRR!!!

In reality, a lot of people do this. The reason they (sometimes) do it is because they want you to get the letter you want. Do you think if you write something they wouldn't agree with that they will sign it? Nope. I suggest you do write your own letter. I was at a conference at Touro-CA for med students applying to residency. The person speaking said that if a doctor asks you to write your own letter, write it. They said it is also not the time for you to be humble. Make your letter awesome.

I doubt any ADCOM will ask you if you wrote your own letter. In the event they did, just tell them they are the doc's thoughts and he signed them. The moment he signs that paper, they are his.

Awwwwwww...that made me laugh. If a person writes their own letter there is no doubt that the letter would be awesome!
 
Awwwwwww...that made me laugh. If a person writes their own letter there is no doubt that the letter would be awesome!

Actually, if you ask doctors in the clinical years, who often do exactly this (tell the med student to write their own evaluation) they pretty much say across the board that the students are harder on themselves and less positive than the doctor would have been if he did it himself.

Also being in med school I asked around. Its probably just under 50% of the people in med school either wrote their own letter, had a physician relative write it, or had a doctor who gave them back the letter so that they could have final editing rights before the doctor printed the letter and signed it.

This is unbelievably common. And not shameful at all. The doctor is busy and clearly supports your bid for medical school so he is willing to sign off on whatever you feel gives you the best chances. Just write the letter and make it awesome.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
It is true that physicians already have so many things to do in a day- adding a letter of recommendation on might seem daunting for a number of reasons. Maybe they only know you from 3-4 days of shadowing, or maybe they are afraid that their letters won't reflect exactly what you want to convey to the admissions committee.

When I request LoR's, I always provide a copy of my personal statement and resume/CV, and then I would wait to see if they will a) accept my request for a letter and then b) ask me to write it. I would say about 20% of the time, I have been asked to write my own letter. Here are some tips I found helpful in my process:

1. The language at the beginning needs to indicate a very strong recommendation. See this article- http://www.usmletomd.com/tips4match/2007/09/sample-letter-of-recommendation-lor.html
2. It should highlight your strengths, talents, and abilities. You might be diligent, punctual, a strong leader, reliable, enthusiastic, creative, organized, etc. Take a moment to list all of your strengths on paper before you sit down to write the letter.
3. The letter should be professional and personal. Use professional language and indicate to the reader that the letter writer knows you well and supports your aspirations.
4. When you finish, send the letter to your preceptor/DO in electronic format so he/she can edit it as needed. You can provide an envelope and instructions on how to send it in, or just have them print the final version and stick it in a signed/sealed envelope that you can pick up. You will know what you personally wrote, but at the end you may or may not see the final version of the letter.

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
 
It is true that physicians already have so many things to do in a day- adding a letter of recommendation on might seem daunting for a number of reasons. Maybe they only know you from 3-4 days of shadowing, or maybe they are afraid that their letters won't reflect exactly what you want to convey to the admissions committee.

When I request LoR's, I always provide a copy of my personal statement and resume/CV, and then I would wait to see if they will a) accept my request for a letter and then b) ask me to write it. I would say about 20% of the time, I have been asked to write my own letter. Here are some tips I found helpful in my process:

1. The language at the beginning needs to indicate a very strong recommendation. See this article- http://www.usmletomd.com/tips4match/2007/09/sample-letter-of-recommendation-lor.html
2. It should highlight your strengths, talents, and abilities. You might be diligent, punctual, a strong leader, reliable, enthusiastic, creative, organized, etc. Take a moment to list all of your strengths on paper before you sit down to write the letter.
3. The letter should be professional and personal. Use professional language and indicate to the reader that the letter writer knows you well and supports your aspirations.
4. When you finish, send the letter to your preceptor/DO in electronic format so he/she can edit it as needed. You can provide an envelope and instructions on how to send it in, or just have them print the final version and stick it in a signed/sealed envelope that you can pick up. You will know what you personally wrote, but at the end you may or may not see the final version of the letter.

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

I think I'm going to save this and refer to it by the time Im done shadowing the DO physician. Now I am convinced that it is very common to write your own letter :D
 
I had to write my own letter of rec. I thought it was the weirdest/hardest thing to do. The D.O. I was shadowing went back and changed some things but overall it was basically my letter.
 
Heyy guys so the DO i was shadowing said for me to write my OWN letter of recommendation. Does anyone have any samples of any? or any that they also wrote themselves and had the DO just sign off on it??
I was asked by two people to essentially write my own letter, and then they would put their own spin/voice on it. Worked out well, I think. Write something good :)
 
Awwwwwww...that made me laugh. If a person writes their own letter there is no doubt that the letter would be awesome!
You'd be surprised how many people have a hard time complimenting themselves.
 
I got into DO school this fall using an MD recommendation letter. I began my application pretty late in the game however, and I didn't care just as long as I fulfilled their requirements of getting a Physician's recommendation in time to get some interviews. As long as you have your reasons for becoming an Osteopathic Doctor you shouldn't have any problems with having an "MD" recommendation letter. With that said, if you have the time to meet a DO doctor and get the recommendation letter, I would definitely pick doing that.

Edit: After reading your post more thoroughly, I would say I had a similar situation as yours. I had a family friend physician as well, and I shadowed her many times. She wrote me a recommendation letter that seemed to be very good. I got two interviews at Western U, and Midwestern in Downers Grove. Good luck!
 
Some schools require a DO letter. Some schools only require a physician's letter. Other schools have no such requirement. There are plenty of threads on which schools fall into which category.
 
Hey all thank you for helping me out.. first time applicant for DO schools this year.


I plan to apply June 1, 2011 to D.O. schools nation wide in US.


I have a two questions though,

1. When do I have to send my LoR's to my chosen D.O. medical schools? It is to my understanding that AACOMAS does not send them out for you like AMCAS does. ( basically what I mean here is , do I send my LoR's after I apply to all my schools June 1st? Or before? or during?) I did a lot of research and the medical schools sites don't specifically say when to send the letters.


2. I took my MCAT twice. Do I have to report my first one to AACOMAS via MCAT THx system? Or just the better score? I know MD schools want all of them, but DO I am not sure.



Thank you guys so much, this is my first time applying to medical schools :) I appreciate all your help.

:love:
 
Last edited:
1) You send your LORs out when you receive secondaries from schools. You don't send LORs to AACOMAS, you send them through an service like Interfolio, and then you can designate which schools to send it to once you get the secondaries from schools.

2) You'll have to send both scores

:luck:
 
1) You send your LORs out when you receive secondaries from schools. You don't send LORs to AACOMAS, you send them through an service like Interfolio, and then you can designate which schools to send it to once you get the secondaries from schools.

2) You'll have to send both scores

:luck:

So the LOR are part of the secondary app? Is that true for every DO school?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I graduated as a nurse, worked as a student nurse tech for 1.5 years and an EMT for 6. I'm friends with PAs and NPs but no physicians. I had to leave my job in the hospital to attend post-bac so now, 1.5 years out, it is going to be very tough to remind physicians I used to see once in a while who I am. As a nurse we speak to physicians on the phone and see them rarely (I was prn, added to the problem).


Is it a decent idea to call up a hospital and tell them I am interested in shadowing a DO for some time with the ultimate goal of receiving a letter?
 
It is true that physicians already have so many things to do in a day- adding a letter of recommendation on might seem daunting for a number of reasons. Maybe they only know you from 3-4 days of shadowing, or maybe they are afraid that their letters won't reflect exactly what you want to convey to the admissions committee.

When I request LoR's, I always provide a copy of my personal statement and resume/CV, and then I would wait to see if they will a) accept my request for a letter and then b) ask me to write it. I would say about 20% of the time, I have been asked to write my own letter. Here are some tips I found helpful in my process:

1. The language at the beginning needs to indicate a very strong recommendation. See this article- http://www.usmletomd.com/tips4match/2007/09/sample-letter-of-recommendation-lor.html
2. It should highlight your strengths, talents, and abilities. You might be diligent, punctual, a strong leader, reliable, enthusiastic, creative, organized, etc. Take a moment to list all of your strengths on paper before you sit down to write the letter.
3. The letter should be professional and personal. Use professional language and indicate to the reader that the letter writer knows you well and supports your aspirations.
4. When you finish, send the letter to your preceptor/DO in electronic format so he/she can edit it as needed. You can provide an envelope and instructions on how to send it in, or just have them print the final version and stick it in a signed/sealed envelope that you can pick up. You will know what you personally wrote, but at the end you may or may not see the final version of the letter.

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.

thanks soo much healingdoc! very helpful!
 
So the LOR are part of the secondary app? Is that true for every DO school?

Yes, you send them only when you get the secondary though, and I'm pretty sure it's standard for all DO schools.
 
Hey guys, I planned on applying to DO schools early in the app cycle. But I don't have a DO letter yet. I will have to opportunity to shadow a DO in 1st week of August. Should I start applying to schools that don't require a DO LOR? and apply to rest of the schools when I get a LOR from a DO by mid august?

my stats are:
3.51 cGPA, 3.1 sGPA. I am taking my mcats on july 28th.

I have 3 months of research experience in kidney disease which got published in Journal of American Society of Nephrology.

I have 101 volunteer hours at VCU/MCV Hospital. Departments:
1. Surgical Trauma ICU
2. Surgical Services
3. Occupational Therapy
4. Post Anesthesia Care Unit
5. Palliative Care Unit.

I have been a active volunteer for Juvenille Diabetes Research Foundation.

I have 3 LORs:
1. From research mentor who is MD/Ph.D
2. Physics Professor who is Ph.D
3. Pre-med Committee of my University.

Lots of extra-curricular activities

Please give me some feedback.
Thank you
 
You should start applying now. Your stats are very good. Keep in mind that not all schools require a DO letter. Mine doesn't, but if you come from a DO rich area and don't have one, you're sure to be asked about it in your interviews.

Hey guys, I planned on applying to DO schools early in the app cycle. But I don't have a DO letter yet. I will have to opportunity to shadow a DO in 1st week of August. Should I start applying to schools that don't require a DO LOR? and apply to rest of the schools when I get a LOR from a DO by mid august?

my stats are:
3.51 cGPA, 3.1 sGPA. I am taking my mcats on july 28th.

I have 3 months of research experience in kidney disease which got published in Journal of American Society of Nephrology.

I have 101 volunteer hours at VCU/MCV Hospital. Departments:
1. Surgical Trauma ICU
2. Surgical Services
3. Occupational Therapy
4. Post Anesthesia Care Unit
5. Palliative Care Unit.

I have been a active volunteer for Juvenille Diabetes Research Foundation.

I have 3 LORs:
1. From research mentor who is MD/Ph.D
2. Physics Professor who is Ph.D
3. Pre-med Committee of my University.

Lots of extra-curricular activities

Please give me some feedback.
Thank you
 
You should start applying now. Your stats are very good. Keep in mind that not all schools require a DO letter. Mine doesn't, but if you come from a DO rich area and don't have one, you're sure to be asked about it in your interviews.

Thanks for the response! If I get an interview and they ask me about my DO letter, can I say that I will be shadowing a D.O in early August? Also, if I get interviews in the end of August, I can provide the schools with a DO letter if they ask me for one in my interview.
 
I think most schools actually DON'T require a DO letter. I had an MD letter and had several acceptances.
Was your MD LOR a clinical or non clinical one? I have an MD from a non clinical volunteer position. I am not sure if that makes any difference.
 
I'm still unsure of what a DO I shadowed should put on the LOR. Any tips?
 
You should start applying now. Your stats are very good. Keep in mind that not all schools require a DO letter. Mine doesn't, but if you come from a DO rich area and don't have one, you're sure to be asked about it in your interviews.


Is there any way to find out what a "DO rich area" is? I've seen it mentioned several times on SDN, but that doesn't seem like something that can be quantified. In the area I live in, there are maybe 10-15 DOs and 100+ MDs.
 
Quick question...I'm trying to upgrade my Interfolio account and it is asking me for "School Affiliation". I graduated back in May 2010. Should I say I'm still affiliated with that school or select "No School Affiliation"?
 
I was shadowing a DO and planning to get a LoR from him for my application. Recently, his practice hired a PA and they aren't wiling to let me shadow while the PA is training. I'm now in need of an alternate DO to shadow and I'm coming up dry, unfortunately.

Would it be acceptable to have a close friend and recent DO graduate (last month) write a LoR for my application? I have known him for six years now. He's a USAF Captain and recent TCOM graduate. He's mentored me along my medical school journey, giving advice along the way for several years now. I definitely feel that he knows me well and can vouch for my interest in ostepathic medicine and my character.

It's that or basically beg whatever DO I can come across. I ran down about 10 phone numbers yesterday with no luck...going off a phone list that TCOM providded me, a list of DOs that supposedly were happy to have shadowers.

I already have a strong physician evaluation letter from an ER MD who knows me pretty well. What say ye, SDN?
 
Last edited:
I'm planning on applying broadly to both DO and MD programs this cycle. I've shadowed some DOs, and the one that's writing my letter to DO schools basically asked me what the focus of the letter should be. Any advice? I guess I mean to say, should it be a generic LOR based on my CV and activities, or should it focus more on my shadowing with said doctor?

Thanks
 
I always thought the physician letter should cover your shadowing experience, obviously your physician hasn't been involved with your other extracurriculars so he/she can't really talk in great depth about them like he/she could about your shadowing experience. I would ask them to embellish a bit about you like "you are the best blah, blah, blah" usually makes the letter stand out more then "he was adequate". Overall ask him/her to talk about your shadowing experience, personal characteristics he/she has observed in you, and also their recommendation that you would make a great physician.
 
Hi all, hope I am not restarting a new thread about this topic for DO.

I am applying to a few schools that require a letter of evaluation from the Dean of my undergraduate college. Is this a letter that is simply asking if I was involved in any disciplinary actions while at school? Or is this similar to any other letter of evaluation?

I have never met my Dean of Students and this requirement confuses me a bit.

Thanks
 
Hi all, hope I am not restarting a new thread about this topic for DO.

I am applying to a few schools that require a letter of evaluation from the Dean of my undergraduate college. Is this a letter that is simply asking if I was involved in any disciplinary actions while at school? Or is this similar to any other letter of evaluation?

I have never met my Dean of Students and this requirement confuses me a bit.

Thanks

Mine was just a letter of rec from the Dean at my college. She told me to send me her my resume and then wrote a letter shortly thereafter. I am a non-trad and remarkably she remembered me after graduating 3 years prior. I went to a school with 30000+ students...
 
Since I graduated 10+ years before applying to medschool, all I needed was a letter signed by a dean confirmed that I had graduated in good academic standing to fulfill my LOR requirement.

I would talk to your school's admission department to get clarification on exactly what you need.
 
Some schools, like PCOM, requires a Dean's Letter if you've been out of school for quite some time and can't get the required premedical committee letter from the undergrad institution that awarded your degree. Other schools require a Dean's Letter (or Dean's Certification) in order to confirm that you were/were not involved in any academic or disciplinary transgression. It would be a good idea to find out exactly what you need.
 
From what I understand it's just a "good standing" letter. Deans write them all the time.

PCOM is also not too picky about which dean, if your university has multiple titles for dean, write the letter.

My letter write was an "assistant dean of student affairs" and PCOM accepted that as a dean's letter. In reality, there was 30+ administrators at my school with the name "dean" in their title.
 
I know DO schools strongly suggest them, but how much do they really weigh? I'd feel weird asking the DO's I've shadowed for LORs. I have ~60 hours between two DO's and about 100 hours with MD's. OHIO University is the only DO school I'm applying to, and i'd rather pay instate tuition and become a DO than go to a private school. I'm applying broadly so that I may have options.
 
Well, some schools actually require a LOR from a DO so I'm sure they'd reject you flat out if you didn't have one. Others don't mind as much, depends on the school. As for OU, they require 2 LORs from professors of someone in the natural sciences and a LOR from a DO is strongly recommended as well. Don't give them a reason to overlook your app, especially since you've already done DO shadowing.
 
So, the school I'm applying to requires two LORs and allows (but doesn't really want) one more. I have a professor and DO to write the first couple, and I was wondering whether it would be worth having my former boss do the third? She's an amazing professional with a lot of credentials---in the horse training/competing industry. But I worked closely with her for about 60 hours a week for 6 months, and she knows me really well. She could (and has offered to) write an amazing LOR for me that would highlight a lot of personal characteristics that my professors just don't know me well enough to speak to. But I don't really know anyone who's used a former boss with no connection to the medical/academic field for an LOR. Do you think it's worth it?
 
So, the school I'm applying to requires two LORs and allows (but doesn't really want) one more. I have a professor and DO to write the first couple, and I was wondering whether it would be worth having my former boss do the third? She's an amazing professional with a lot of credentials---in the horse training/competing industry. But I worked closely with her for about 60 hours a week for 6 months, and she knows me really well. She could (and has offered to) write an amazing LOR for me that would highlight a lot of personal characteristics that my professors just don't know me well enough to speak to. But I don't really know anyone who's used a former boss with no connection to the medical/academic field for an LOR. Do you think it's worth it?

It certainly couldn't hurt. While writing about the personal characteristics make sure that she knows to keep this professional. I had a letter myself from the director of student life at my university for the same purpose. I worked with her and she knew me personally and professionally.
 
Yes...I wouldn't send any LORs to a school until you've received their secondary application (or they been otherwise requested). Depending on when you submit your AACOMAS and how long it takes for it to be verified and transmitted, you might not need your letters until mid-July. However, I wouldn't tell your letter writers that :) With all but one of my letters, the writer waited until the week before the deadline I gave them and it really cut it close.

I don't think this matters at all. If it is through interfolio then the adcom will have access to your letter when they review your primary application (on their own time).
 
I believe just *having* a letter from either sort of physician that you have shadowed in a clinical setting is largely more important than having a DO LOR, though obviously that would help for osteopathic schools.
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, I have a unique situation. I just graduated with a non-science B.A. having taken most Premed courses. I can't get a Committee Letter from my graduating school because I didn't finish my Premed requirements there (and quite frankly I rather not!).

I'm enrolling as a 2nd Degree student/informal Post-bacc in another college this Fall and I believe I need to have taken 30 credits of science at their school to qualify for their committee letter (and I only plan to take about half credits which include retakes of my old grades, and new upper level sciences).

I'm kind of concerned about not having a committee letter. Thoughts?
 
Most schools will take two letters of recommendation from science faculty and one from non-science faculty in place of it (three letters total, but you'll have to check with each school for the exact requirements.)
 
Hi all,

I am considering applying to DO school, but the only thing keeping me back is the letter from a physician (DO or MD). I haven't been able to shadow since I need to work full-time in order to sustain myself. So my question is: how important is this letter in the application process? I would only be applying to schools that indicate that a physician letter is not required or is "strongly recommended."

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance! :)
 
Hi all,

I am considering applying to DO school, but the only thing keeping me back is the letter from a physician (DO or MD). I haven't been able to shadow since I need to work full-time in order to sustain myself. So my question is: how important is this letter in the application process? I would only be applying to schools that indicate that a physician letter is not required or is "strongly recommended."

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance! :)

Do you have sick days? If so, use one or two to shadow a DO.

I have "personal days" at my full time job so I used one of them (If I don't use them by the end of the school year I get paid $100 for EACH that I don't use!!! It cost me to go shadow, but it was worth it!)

Another option is to see if any physician (DO or MD) has office hours on a Saturday. One doctor that I have shadowed will have open office on the weekends that he is on call. I was able to pull a 4-hour shadow on a Saturday to add to the 8-hour personal day.

Besides, I got to see some cool stuff when I shadowed... The first patient that the Dr. saw my first day had high PSA (prostate screening antigen) so the doc had him drop trou and did a prostate exam. In process he told me to come over and look at these "nice" hemorrhoids... Got the day off to a great start. The second day that I was in, a guy had flat-warts all over his ... um... junk... and had them frozen off with liquid N2 :eek:. Doc had me "assist" by holding his junk off to one side than the other so he could get all the different warts. All 16 of them. Guess what that guy had to go home and talk to the girl-friend about that night!

You too could have stories to tell like these, but only if you have clinical experience.

dsoz
 
You do not want the adcoms to have a right-off-the-bat reason to push your app to the side. This would include not shadowing a physician at all. Some understand that DOs are harder to come by in certain areas and so will accept letters from both MDs or DOs but most always prefer DO. Additionally, shadowing hours will give you something more to talk about during interviews. How do you know you want to be a physician if you've never really observed one carrying out his day-to-day duties? I was lucky enough to shadow a DO for two 4-hour (half day) sessions and he was happy to write a letter for me. The majority of DOs had to do the same thing so they are generally very receptive to students who want to pursue this degree.
 
You do not want the adcoms to have a right-off-the-bat reason to push your app to the side. This would include not shadowing a physician at all. Some understand that DOs are harder to come by in certain areas and so will accept letters from both MDs or DOs but most always prefer DO. Additionally, shadowing hours will give you something more to talk about during interviews. How do you know you want to be a physician if you've never really observed one carrying out his day-to-day duties? I was lucky enough to shadow a DO for two 4-hour (half day) sessions and he was happy to write a letter for me. The majority of DOs had to do the same thing so they are generally very receptive to students who want to pursue this degree.

Oh wow, I could use that small of an amount of time to shadow? I was thinking I'd need to do 40-some odd hours! I can definitely manage a day or two to shadow if it will yield a letter in the end. Is it really that simple?

I have a good amount of shadowing and clinical experience from when I was training to be an EMT, but that was nearly 6 years ago when I was in high school. Also, I sort of shadow physicians daily at my job when I interview them about their medical practice with a variety of CNS disorders. Do you think these things will work in my favor on the application?
 
Oh wow, I could use that small of an amount of time to shadow? I was thinking I'd need to do 40-some odd hours! I can definitely manage a day or two to shadow if it will yield a letter in the end. Is it really that simple?

I have a good amount of shadowing and clinical experience from when I was training to be an EMT, but that was nearly 6 years ago when I was in high school. Also, I sort of shadow physicians daily at my job when I interview them about their medical practice with a variety of CNS disorders. Do you think these things will work in my favor on the application?

Yes. Highlight those aspects of your work exposure to physicians in your application. And the amount of time spent with a DO varies. You kind of have to feel out the physician to know when to ask. I was going to stick with the three-day rule (shadow three times before asking for a letter) but we were getting along so well that I felt comfortable asking him the second time.
 
My premed advisor sent out my package of letters to schools today (via virtual evals). Since letters are separate from the AACOMAS primary, and theoretically schools don't have my primary on file yet,(It is verified but not yet released). does anyone know if this would be a problem? Or does it not matter that primary is not there yet?
 
Hi,
I have a recommendation letter from a physician that is signed but with no official letterhead. It has the physician's phone number, address, and the name of the Hospital. For Osteopathic schools, will the fact that the physician LOR does not have a letterhead be a problem? I appreciate all replies greatly! Thanks!
 
Hi,
I have a recommendation letter from a physician that is signed but with no official letterhead. It has the physician's phone number, address, and the name of the Hospital. For Osteopathic schools, will the fact that the physician LOR does not have a letterhead be a problem? I appreciate all replies greatly! Thanks!

Look at school-specific LOR requirements. I believe most will require a confidential letter that you do not have access to, though. Why don't you set up an Interfolio account and have the physician simply upload the statement there? That would be best especially because many schools do not like LORs that students have access to (leaves room for doubt as to what the physician has to say about you since you can read the letter).
 
Look at school-specific LOR requirements. I believe most will require a confidential letter that you do not have access to, though. Why don't you set up an Interfolio account and have the physician simply upload the statement there? That would be best especially because many schools do not like LORs that students have access to (leaves room for doubt as to what the physician has to say about you since you can read the letter).

Sorry for not mentioning it earlier but I already have an Interfolio account and the physician did upload her letter to Interfolio. The only issue is that there's probably not an official letterhead...Will this be a problem?
The DO schools I am applying to are the following:
UMDNJ
NYCOM
PCOM
DMU
AZCOM
KCUMB
TCOM
NOVA SE
TOURO NY
 
My school doesn't have a premed committee/advisor. I saw that some schools allow science faculty letters in lieu of that requirement. However, I'm applying to KCUMB and PCOM. You guys said PCOM just needs a Dean's letter of good standing type of thing, which I can get. However, I haven't seen anything regarding KCUMB's premed committee/advisor requirement--can I just ask my major advisor for a letter?
 
Top