2016-2017 Underdogs thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Well stated, and not incorrect.

But for the sake of an amusing argument:

Three words:

Evidence based medicine.
EBM doesnt mean adverse outcomes dont occur. It just means it gives the best shot at a good outcome. There are also instances when information is limited, like responding to a code, john doe situation unusual anatomy etc where the above saying could also apply. You are expected to do the best you can with the information and the evidence you do have.
 
EBM doesnt mean adverse outcomes dont occur. It just means it gives the best shot at a good outcome. There are also instances when information is limited, like responding to a code, john doe situation unusual anatomy etc where the above saying could also apply. You are expected to do the best you can with the information and the evidence you do have.

And to the argument at hand, best shot at a good outcome was my applying. Evidence was acceptance.

But that doesn't mean the same choices will lead to the same outcomes for others.

Of course.
 
.
 
Last edited:
There is something wrong with your app or your school selection. I have the exact same LizzyM and am doing ok.
I sent in 31 MD secondaries, complete between Aug 22nd and Sept 10th.
I don't think there was anything wrong with my school selection.
My EC's are well-rounded and I personally feel they are quite good, if mainly service oriented.
It's possible that I'm just a terrible human being that doesn't deserve to set foot in a medical school.
 
Last edited:
I sent in 31 secondaries, complete between Aug 22nd and Sept 10th.
I don't think there was anything wrong with my school selection.
My EC's are well-rounded and I personally feel they are quite good, if mainly service oriented.
It's possible that I'm just a terrible human being that doesn't deserve to set foot in a medical school.
I was complete a little before you. My app is objectively worse than you. You will be fine. Stick with the turkey rule and you should be fine.
 
There is something wrong with your app or your school selection. I have the exact same LizzyM and am doing ok.

Looking at your post history, your Lizzy M is ~71.. You have no idea if there's "something wrong" with that person's app.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I sent in 31 MD secondaries, complete between Aug 22nd and Sept 10th.
I don't think there was anything wrong with my school selection.
My EC's are well-rounded and I personally feel they are quite good, if mainly service oriented.
It's possible that I'm just a terrible human being that doesn't deserve to set foot in a medical school.

Being complete around Labor Day, there's no reason for you to be worried. Just sit back and wait. It's only been a month. I was complete mid July and didn't receive my first II until the end of August.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Looking at your post history, your Lizzy M is ~71.. You have no idea if there's "something wrong" with that person's app.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
I'll start:
Indian male, 520 MCAT, 3.47 GPA
Applying to 37 schools
It is funny that you looked up my LizzyM and didnt read his first post in this thread.his is nearly identical. Ergo my advice to critically look at the app or school selection and apply the turkey day rule for him. Refraining from freaking out untill late November would be ideal but he created the whole thread.

He is almost in the top 10th Percentile of all applicants and he is in the top quartile of Asian applicants.
 
Last edited:
It is funny that you looked up my LizzyM and didnt read his first post in this thread.his is nearly identical. Ergo my advice to critically look at the app or school selection and apply the turkey day rule for him. Refraining from freaking out untill late November would be ideal but he created the whole thread.

He is almost in the top 10th Percentile of all applicants and he is in the top quartile of Asian applicants.
But he also was complete 3-4 weeks ago. You can't apply your anecdotal evidence to his app, especially since he was complete later. There are people complete earlier than him with better LizzyM that have no IIs too. Nobody knows whether or not one Monday morning he might get 3 IIs all at once. Saying something is wrong with his app is pretty presumptuous.
 
3.84, 508. Applied to 35 MD schools. So far 2 II, 1 rejection, 3 holds. So much waiting is driving me crazy
 
3.5 507 ~64 LizzyM. Applied to 11 MD and 7 DO schools. 1 II, no rejections yet... I couldn't afford to apply to any more schools so here to hoping I made my list well.
 
But he also was complete 3-4 weeks ago. You can't apply your anecdotal evidence to his app, especially since he was complete later. There are people complete earlier than him with better LizzyM that have no IIs too. Nobody knows whether or not one Monday morning he might get 3 IIs all at once. Saying something is wrong with his app is pretty presumptuous.
Yes I made that mistake. I assumed he was complete earlier. I also have kept referring to the turkey rule so there is that.

Also, OP started an underdog thread with a lizzym of 73. Anyone in the top decile of Lizzym should not be considered an underdog.
 
Last edited:
Greetings all! Interesting little thread ya'll have goin here lol.
Been around for a while but my turn finally to post up!
Louisiana res (in case it didn't show in my slang above lol) 😉
Worked as E.R. clerk/tech for a year
Offshore fluid engineer prior to back to hitting the books again.
uGPA:
1st bac: 2.18 [Communication studies 04]
Post-bac (went back 4 yrs and finishing new degree in Bio, minor in chem, honors in May17): 3.9 ish
CUMgpa:
DO: ~2.9
MD: ~2.75
MCAT sept 10th ...2 weeks so tbd [took it cold no prep tests, and never haf biochem/cell)...
Was advised to NOT take mcat for that reason...borrowed friends biochem book for a month before driving 7 hours to Texas to take MCAT lol
...LSU Nola has a 32 hour policy I fully intend to use lol (check it out pretty legit)
I honestly can say I have NO clue where to apply...DO schools aside from lsu. Advice? Good luck all!!
30 yo white guy btw lol

Well, kinda late now, but you really should have taken the MCAT seriously.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using SDN mobile
 
is your LizzyM below 70? Mine is around a 64
Mine is a 64.7... keep the faith bud!

Mine is a 62-63! Just keep on keeping on 🙂

3.84, 508. Applied to 35 MD schools. So far 2 II, 1 rejection, 3 holds. So much waiting is driving me crazy

3.5 507 ~64 lizzyM. Applied to 11 MD and 7 DO schools. 1 II, no rejections yet... I couldn't afford to apply to any more schools so here to hoping I made my list well.

~65 lizzyM. Reapplicant
Applied 17 MD, 2 DO
No II, 2 rejections, 2 holds. Cannot stop refreshing my email.

Average applicants have a GPA of 3.55 and an MCAT of 28.3 bringing the LizzyM of the average applicant to 63.8.

The average Matriculant has a GPA of 3.70 and an MCAT of 31.4 bringing their LizzyM to 68.4.That means that a good portion of matriculants have less than a 70 on the lizzyM.

I would define :

Underdog LizzyM <63.8.

Hopeful LizzyM 63.8<between <68.4

Increasing likely to Matriculate LizzyM >68.4


Caveat 1: It is state dependent.

39.25% of the applicants that apply(52,550) matriculate (20,631). YMMV, because in all likelihood this is very state dependent. There are a number of public schools where the average matriculant has an MCAT =~28. Heck, University of Michigan has an average Lizzy M of 71-72 for instate residents, that means by definition half of the class has a LizzyM less then 71!

Caveat 2:Having a productive school list matters.
Applying to schools that screen or have averages for classes that are widely different than your own may lead to heartbreak.

Caveat 3. Not all GPAs are made alike, certain schools assign a higher value to top 20 institutions.

Caveat 4: Red flags like criminal history and IA and Green Flags like URM/Veteran states means all bets are off.

Caveat 5: Analysis only applies to MD schools.

Caveat 6. Timing Matters
Applying may help, but it may just be that people who apply early also have LizzyMs in the 70s.


Most of you fall in the hopeful and likely to matriculate category!
 
Average applicants have a GPA of 3.55 and an MCAT of 28.3 bringing the LizzyM of the average applicant to 63.8.

The average Matriculant has a GPA of 3.70 and an MCAT of 31.4 bringing their LizzyM to 68.4.That means that a good portion of matriculants have less than a 70 on the lizzyM.

I would define :

Underdog LizzyM <63.8.

Hopeful LizzyM 63.8<between <68.4

Increasing likely to Matriculate LizzyM >68.4


Caveat 1: It is state dependent.

39.25% of the applicants that apply(52,550) matriculate (20,631). YMMV, because in all likelihood this is very state dependent. There are a number of public schools where the average matriculant has an MCAT =~28. Heck, University of Michigan has an average Lizzy M of 71-72 for instate residents, that means by definition half of the class has a LizzyM less then 71!

Caveat 2:Having a productive school list matters.
Applying to schools that screen or have averages for classes that are widely different than your own may lead to heartbreak.

Caveat 3. Not all GPAs are made alike, certain schools assign a higher value to top 20 institutions.

Caveat 4: Red flags like criminal history and IA and Green Flags like URM/Veteran states means all bets are off.

Caveat 5: Analysis only applies to MD schools.

Caveat 6. Timing Matters
Applying may help, but it may just be that people who apply early also have LizzyMs in the 70s.


Most of you fall in the hopeful and likely to matriculate category!
#underdog - My MCAT is less than the 10% at every school I applied to (and all MD schools).
but I did apply early and have an awesome state school!
 
Most of you fall in the hopeful and likely to matriculate category!

Underdog is relative to SDN population, so anything LizzyM < 70 = underdog. And LizzyM > 75 = likely to matriculate somewhere 😛
 
Underdog is relative to SDN population, so anything LizzyM < 70 = underdog. And LizzyM > 75 = likely to matriculate somewhere 😛
Would you say it's normal for applicants like me to have no interviews at this point?
 
Would you say it's normal for applicants like me to have no interviews at this point?

Don't know. Depends on stats, complete date etc. If you have good stats (mainly a high MCAT) but were complete in August, I think you're fine and may have to wait for few weeks to get the news. I'd start worrying if you hear from no one in end of November/early December according to adcoms here.

I do feel inadequate when I see LizzyM's greater than 75 so this must be true.

75 is like the perfect SDN number man. 80 is platinum.
 
Don't know. Depends on stats, complete date etc. If you have good stats (mainly a high MCAT) but were complete in August, I think you're fine and may have to wait for few weeks to get the news. I'd start worrying if you hear from no one in end of November/early December according to adcoms here.



75 is like the perfect SDN number man. 80 is platinum.
But it is seriously delusional, needing to score in the 95th percentile of the MCAT to even feel adequate after having a 4.0. Just shows how warped things get on here.
 
Don't know. Depends on stats, complete date etc. If you have good stats (mainly a high MCAT) but were complete in August, I think you're fine and may have to wait for few weeks to get the news. I'd start worrying if you hear from no one in end of November/early December according to adcoms here.



75 is like the perfect SDN number man. 80 is platinum.
Not sure if you actually haven't seen my stats yet in this thread. I have a 3.47 and 520, and I was complete at 31 MD schools between Aug. 22nd and Sept. 10.
 
Not sure if you actually haven't seen my stats yet in this thread. I have a 3.47 and 520, and I was complete at 31 MD schools between Aug. 22nd and Sept. 10.
How did your essays turn out?
 
How did your essays turn out?
Ok I guess? They flow and work well from a literary standpoint. They're nothing earthshattering because I'm not earthshattering.

I'm quite certain my PS was very good. My committee and most people I asked said there was nothing in it they would change. Though I hear that they basically just take the PS and throw it in the trash.
 
Average applicants have a GPA of 3.55 and an MCAT of 28.3 bringing the LizzyM of the average applicant to 63.8.

The average Matriculant has a GPA of 3.70 and an MCAT of 31.4 bringing their LizzyM to 68.4.That means that a good portion of matriculants have less than a 70 on the lizzyM.

I would define :

Underdog LizzyM <63.8.

Hopeful LizzyM 63.8<between <68.4

Increasing likely to Matriculate LizzyM >68.4


Caveat 1: It is state dependent.

39.25% of the applicants that apply(52,550) matriculate (20,631). YMMV, because in all likelihood this is very state dependent. There are a number of public schools where the average matriculant has an MCAT =~28. Heck, University of Michigan has an average Lizzy M of 71-72 for instate residents, that means by definition half of the class has a LizzyM less then 71!

Caveat 2:Having a productive school list matters.
Applying to schools that screen or have averages for classes that are widely different than your own may lead to heartbreak.

Caveat 3. Not all GPAs are made alike, certain schools assign a higher value to top 20 institutions.

Caveat 4: Red flags like criminal history and IA and Green Flags like URM/Veteran states means all bets are off.

Caveat 5: Analysis only applies to MD schools.

Caveat 6. Timing Matters
Applying may help, but it may just be that people who apply early also have LizzyMs in the 70s.


Most of you fall in the hopeful and likely to matriculate category!

My lizzyM is exactly 68.4, darn
 
Ok I guess? They flow and work well from a literary standpoint. They're nothing earthshattering because I'm not earthshattering.

I'm quite certain my PS was very good. My committee and most people I asked said there was nothing in it they would change. Though I hear that they basically just take the PS and throw it in the trash.
Nah PS is probably right under EC's in terms of value. Secondaries are probably right under PS.

Edit: By value, I mean how easily it can **** up your chances if it's not good.
 
Nah PS is probably right under EC's in terms of value. Secondaries are probably right under PS.

Edit: By value, I mean how easily it can **** up your chances if it's not good.
I feel like if your essays are good they add no value. If they're bad then you're auto-rejected.
 
I feel like if your essays are good they add no value. If they're bad then you're auto-rejected.

I don't agree with this. They wouldn't ask you to write essays if it was just checking a box. Essays can be well-written but the content can still be underwhelming.
 
Average applicants have a GPA of 3.55 and an MCAT of 28.3 bringing the LizzyM of the average applicant to 63.8.

The average Matriculant has a GPA of 3.70 and an MCAT of 31.4 bringing their LizzyM to 68.4.That means that a good portion of matriculants have less than a 70 on the lizzyM.

I would define :

Underdog LizzyM <63.8.

Hopeful LizzyM 63.8<between <68.4

Increasing likely to Matriculate LizzyM >68.4


Caveat 1: It is state dependent.

39.25% of the applicants that apply(52,550) matriculate (20,631). YMMV, because in all likelihood this is very state dependent. There are a number of public schools where the average matriculant has an MCAT =~28. Heck, University of Michigan has an average Lizzy M of 71-72 for instate residents, that means by definition half of the class has a LizzyM less then 71!

Caveat 2:Having a productive school list matters.
Applying to schools that screen or have averages for classes that are widely different than your own may lead to heartbreak.

Caveat 3. Not all GPAs are made alike, certain schools assign a higher value to top 20 institutions.

Caveat 4: Red flags like criminal history and IA and Green Flags like URM/Veteran states means all bets are off.

Caveat 5: Analysis only applies to MD schools.

Caveat 6. Timing Matters
Applying may help, but it may just be that people who apply early also have LizzyMs in the 70s.


Most of you fall in the hopeful and likely to matriculate category!


This gives me hope
 
Real talk from a current M1 underdog of last cycle... if you get an interview - prepare prepare prepare. Unless you are interviewing at WVU as an out of stater (LOL), they have a seat for you and you need to earn it. Additionally... start figuring out your backup plans now and get them solidified. It's really easy to step away from your solidified back up plan when you get that acceptance. Not so easy to do the July scramble.
 
Real talk from a current M1 underdog of last cycle... if you get an interview - prepare prepare prepare. Unless you are interviewing at WVU as an out of stater (LOL), they have a seat for you and you need to earn it. Additionally... start figuring out your backup plans now and get them solidified. It's really easy to step away from your solidified back up plan when you get that acceptance. Not so easy to do the July scramble.

Yay for interviewing at WVU as an OOS'er!
 
Last MCAT was a 28 in 2012, took new test, 514. Basically a 3.0 undergrad gpa, 3.8 SMP gpa, interviewing at state MD school this month. Stomping on the MCAT has been the best part so far. Hopefully I get in this cycle!
 
Last MCAT was a 28 in 2012, took new test, 514. Basically a 3.0 undergrad gpa, 3.8 SMP gpa, interviewing at state MD school this month. Stomping on the MCAT has been the best part so far. Hopefully I get in this cycle!
tfw I am actually an underdog despite everyone's protests in the thread
 
tfw I am actually an underdog despite everyone's protests in the thread
Ha, so much conjecture in threads, I must've missed where someone possessed the empirical evidence that characterizes someone as an "underdog"...
 
I feel like this thread and the no interview thead should have been created for these people to commiserate and encourage each other and whatnot, but were actually created by baratheonfire to throw himself a pity party. We get it man, you have no II's yet, and it sucks. I went 2 months before my first II. Chill out and be patient. I feel for you, but you gotta stop with the incessant complaining. Its not gonna help you, and its not gonna help anyone else. And going over to the Osteo threads and trying to act superior to them isnt going to help you out either......
 
I feel like this thread and the no interview thead should have been created for these people to commiserate and encourage each other and whatnot, but were actually created by baratheonfire to throw himself a pity party. We get it man, you have no II's yet, and it sucks. I went 2 months before my first II. Chill out and be patient. I feel for you, but you gotta stop with the incessant complaining. Its not gonna help you, and its not gonna help anyone else. And going over to the Osteo threads and trying to act superior to them isnt going to help you out either......
That is the thing, I dont mind listening to him and offering support. The problem is when every thread becomes a "Look at me, I am doomed" It gets old.
 
I feel like this thread and the no interview thead should have been created for these people to commiserate and encourage each other and whatnot, but were actually created by baratheonfire to throw himself a pity party. We get it man, you have no II's yet, and it sucks. I went 2 months before my first II. Chill out and be patient. I feel for you, but you gotta stop with the incessant complaining. Its not gonna help you, and its not gonna help anyone else. And going over to the Osteo threads and trying to act superior to them isnt going to help you out either......
Dude I'm not acting superior. I just started filling out my AACOMAS. Also I haven't posted in this thread in like 2 weeks
 
Top Bottom