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Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by ForTheLoveOfPsych, Nov 1, 2017.
This makes way more sense now
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Furthermore, the more I think about this, the more I realize it’s not true. Especially for competitive places such as Napa State. For some random small clinic, maybe it is true. But when it comes to places such as Napa State or any other super competitive places, people are not going to rank them lower because they took an extra 10 days to respond and give rejection and acceptance letters. So with the Napa State being the primary example, they are able to get away with giving their responses over a week past the deadline with essentially no consequence.
So you were posing as a student? Why the posts about getting interviews and venting your frustrations about waiting to here back? That doesn’t sound like a partner... that sounds like someone who is frustrated by the process of applying to internship. You’re story doesn’t line up.
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Like I said, I was venting my partner’s frustration and sharing that with the thread. My partner has always kept me involved in the entire process of their doctoral school life.
And also, I have had multiple people in this thread message me thanking me for being so open and real about the process, further saying that they themselves did not feel the ability to be completely honest and open with their frustrations with the process.
It doesn’t make sense to me. Why didn’t you just say you were venting your perception of the process since your partner was applying. Being open and real is fine - venting out your anger online while posing as a student is different. Just my 2 cents. It’s a frustrating process for everyone but those who are prepared for these frustrations also go about it differently. For example- I know there’s bias being a counseling student, that it’s competitive and that sites may see my school as unfavorable (since we are closing). So I took extra steps to make sure I got a decent amount of interviews.
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Vent for your partner not posing as a student and venting. There may be other partners who share the same frustrations/anger as well
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Think of it this way - any given student (e.g., your partner) is 100% able to not rank a site if they don't like their behavior, just like any site is able to not rank an applicant if the applicant doesn't submit stuff on time or whatever. Also, there isn't really a "deadline." The "suggested" date is December 15th, but there isn't a hard deadline; they just have to tell us eventually. And while I didn't apply there, a cohortmate did, so I know they've repeatedly gotten back in contact with applicants to apologize and let them know they're working on it. If that's a place your partner applied to, she doesn't have to rank them. It doesn't really matter if someone else does, just like how if someone is late applying to one site but not another, they potentially don't get to match at that one site, but will elsewhere. It is frustrating. Many of us are frustrated and would love to see systemic changes, but it also doesn't mean the process is INTENDED to be extra hard/upsetting for us applicants, or INTENDED to weight toward sites. And each individual site, in particular, is not the one responsible for the system being broken, so I'm not sure why shi**ing on them is necessary. Maybe direct your venom toward APPIC, since they're the overarching organization, not any one site? I'm not on here thinking that maybe my future TD is, and so I need to behave a certain way. This IS my unfiltered opinion. I understand others feel differently. Okay. That's fine.
I agree with several other folks that there are many ways to look at it. If you/your partner want to make systemic changes, that's fabulous - but I don't think it will happen via berating people and speaking rudely on this forum.
I will say that I, as an applicant in this process, have - much like your partner - been voicing my frustrations, anxieties, and insecurities about this process. Also like your partner (and unlike you) I've directed my venting and dysregulation to loved ones and other supports, not to this message board of strangers. It seems wholly unhelpful to bring that negativity to this message board, a message board of strangers with no responsibility for or formal connection to the process.
This thread has developed from a place to report invitations into a place to receive support. It's now clear why you were unwilling to hear the support given - you never wanted it in the first place. What you may not realize, however is how much space you took from those of us who were interested in that. I have no doubt that your posts provided some validation to others, and I hope they have been able to find a space to get support, either within this forum or another space. Unfortunately, you also took a meaningful, supportive, positive space from the rest of us, by fueling arguments and telling others why they are wrong. I truly hope this is helping you better support your partner in a way that is meaningful for them.
I do agree that it may be beneficial in discussing this with regard to APPIC.
Personally, I think that the way that APPIC runs this process is completely ****ed and the entire process needs to be revamped.
I would do this through destigmatization of Phase 2. So many doctoral students I've talked to have discussed their anxieties about phase 1, with fears of falling into the the phase 2 hole. Sure there are plenty of people that will come in and be like "Oh, I know people who went through to phase 2 and got a good placement. Hell, even I did that." but you cannot deny there is a stigma about falling into phase 2. I would shift the process to reduce the load on phase 1 and reduce the stigma of phase 2 to paint it as more of a "you can improve and try again in phase 2."
With the current process, if you don't match in phase 1, you just have to scramble to find a phase 2 match (usually by greatly lowering your standards of what you're looking for).
How I would change the process:
1 - Require sites to be more specific on their APPIC listing of what they're looking for. If you require a certain number of specifically therapy hours and you're going to deny assessment heavy people, put that in to stop wasting peoples time. No more "You reached the 500 hour goal, but it was mostly assessment. we wanted mostly therapy." Sites should be far more specific in what they're looking for in applicants.
2 - Remove application fees. Nothing feels ****tier than paying $500-$1000 to get to have a bunch of people reject you. What are application fees even being used for?
3 - Put a limit on phase 1. All applicants can only apply to 10 sites in phase one. This is to counter balance the removal of application fees. You can't have everyone applying everywhere.
4 - Put a hard deadline on sites to give rejections. Set it Dec. 15. All sites must give their acceptances/rejections by then, or else you don't get to give any.
5 - Require feedback to be given to all rejected applicants. This way they can work on improving their overall package prior to phase 2. Some may need to rethink their cover letters. Others may need to revamp essays. Some still may realize they are better first for different styles of sites (assessment vs therapy).
6 - When moving the phase 2, simple expand the process. Half of the applicants should be matched by now, so there should be less applicants overall. Maybe allow applications for up to 15 sites. A large percentage of good sites will still be around in phase 2, moreso than how the process currently runs.
Overall, I think the major cause of anxiety for a lot of people is the overall stigma of phase 2. Furthermore, when people have a multitude of interviews in phase 1, they're going to be stressed trying to pack that all in (you've all certainly seen it already on this forum). Relax the process a little and destigmatize phase 2.
Put a limit to phase 1? Sorry that’s a sophisticated move to apply to more sites if you are aware you have more challenges. Maybe your partner should have applied to more sites? 15 isn’t enough if there’s a lot of factors against you. Phase 2 is not stigmatized- it’s purely another chance to try again. People don’t care if you match to phase 1 or 11. It just sucks for the applicant. That doesn’t mean “lowering your standards.” That means focusing on different goals. That’s demeaning to folks who tried a different approach on phase 2. In regards to your first point, uhhh they do ask for a certain amount of hours. I’m sorry you or “your partner” focused more on assessment rather than therapy. There are so many factors at play that I’m *hoping* you are NOT a grad student. You truly do not understand multiple factors in regards to assessment vs therapy hours. I give up - you must be a troll. Nothing you say makes sense
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It would be great to apply to more than 15 sites. Except for the fact you’re paying $50 or more for every site you’re applying to.
I can only assume you're watching Puppies Crash Christmas on Hulu.
Dates: Jan. 3, 4, 9, 10, 11, 12
I'm finally done hearing from my sites as of today. It's been awesome to have a place to share the process, thank you all for sharing the forum.
Congrats on being done and ending on a high note! Thanks for being a part of the #forumfam! Good luck with interviews!
In the spirit of keeping this a supportive space, I hope everyone has time and space for rest and reflection before we all head into/continue the interview phase. I've certainly found this experience to be very stressful and difficult, and I am SO grateful I found this forum and connected with all of you. Thank you for the laughs and mutual support, #forumfam! I hope to get to meet some of you in person during interviews (what's our code word/nametag symbol??) and am wishing all of you the very best during the holiday season. Merry Peetzit and Happy Christmas Prince-ing!
APA sites are already required to do this on their internship website under the heading "Internship admissions, support and initial placement data." Failure to have this information posted jeopardizes their accreditation status.
It costs a lot of money to host servers that are capable of handling all of the aspects of the online portal system. My guess is that most of the money goes there. I'm also willing to bet you could ask APPIC and they would point you to a budget document.
When initially establishing the fees they took into account the cost applicants were paying to send paper applications to their sites and set the fees in accordance with that cost so as to not make it more expensive than the process already was for applicants.
There is already an informal limit. That's why the cost goes up after 15 - to encourage people to limit the number of applications to the percentages that are statistically shown to be beneficial.
I agree that sites need to stick to their deadlines and I think it sucks that there are sites that apparently blatantly disregard the agreement they've signed that mandates everyone gets notified in phase I by the notification date established by the site. I doubt making every site have the same notification date will eliminate this issue given that there are already penalties to breaking the contract sites sign with APPIC and NMS.
The reasons this isnt feasible were already thoroughly covered in this thread when you brought it up while posing as an applicant some pages ago.
Phase II is infinitely better than clearinghouse was (applicants notified on Friday they didn't match, sites notified the following Monday and then everyone scrambling to apply, interview, and offer by end of day Monday all with paper applications and fax machines).
There's still room for improvement, but changes have been made to make it easier on applicants so that they can take the time needed to choose where to apply and, if needed, fix their applications.
I'm all ears for hearing how to destigmatize phase II
I echo this! I am sincerely rooting for everyone in the #forumfam and am hoping this next week is full of rest, family, food, and joy! In the spirit of joy, I wanted to share this photo of a guy in my city who decorates his yard with an obscene number of holiday inflatables. He starts setting up in October and then, when it’s all finished, sits in his driveway dressed as Santa and hands out candy canes to kiddos as people walk through the inflatables. It is admittedly tacky, AND it brings so much excitement and joy to everyone who goes and sees it. So, all that said, I wish y’all all a yard-filled-with-an-unreal-amount-of-holiday-inflatables level of joy and happiness this next week!!
For CU Boulder, check Frontier airlines. If you can wear your suit jacket on the plane and pack the rest of your stuff in a backpack, you can usually get a cheap ticket (if they fly to your city).
Has anyone received an interview itenerary for UAB?
I’m going there on the 8th and haven’t received an itinerary yet.
Can’t decide which is my favorite part of finally receiving the Northwestern rejection I’ve seen coming for weeks, the fact that they were 11 days past the notification date (that they set!!!), or the fact that it came on my birthday
Regardless, I’m now officially done hearing back from sites! Hope everyone had a great holiday yesterday and that those still waiting to be released from waiting purgatory get to move on soon! Even when you know it’s coming, it feels good to be DONE done with this part. And most of all, I hope everyone is enjoying their well-deserved break!
YAY for being DDDDOOOONNNNEEEE!!!!
Somebody bring me some MFing churros. Kthxbai.
Anyone interviewing at the Atlanta VA on the 9th want to rent this treehouse with me? Half joking. Half not.
Atlanta Alpaca Treehouse in the Bamboo Forest - Treehouses for Rent in Atlanta, Georgia, United States
What if we're not interviewing in that area on that date? Offer still apply? What if we bring churros? Half joking. Half not.
Edit: Seriously, though. There are alpacas? I might have to look into this as vacation for my family. We could tell my toddler the alpacas are llamas and she'd go ape. (big Llama Llama book fan )
Haha of course! Churros would be an added bonus.
I have held off booking my lodging for Atlanta yet because I'm still so fixated on this amazing treehouse.
DOOOOOO IIITTTTT!!!! I mean, how much are you spending on this process? Seems like this would be but a drop in the stomach churning bucket.
Interview Invite to Manhattan Psychiatric Center
Time to book some more flights!
When I went through this process in late '14/early '15, this forum was super helpful. Now I am a licensed psychologist at Napa State Hospital. Just want everyone who was anxiously waiting for notifications to know, NSH is an excellent place to work and Napa is an awesome place to live. Whatever anxiety your later-than-expected notification caused, this is a great training site and it will all be worth it if you match here. That all being said, it can be a very expensive area to get a hotel at the last minute, especially on a grad-student budget. Feel free to PM if you would like some suggestions. I may be able to host depending on your interview date too.
Dang, what an incredible offer. Wish I had applied there!
I don’t have any churros, but I’d be happy to share some of my Mindy-inspired birthday cake.
edit: Was this an excuse to show off my birthday cake to people who might get the reference (unlike my family)? Yes, yes it was.
Is it cool if I eat it while hating you for being at the the same point in your career yet....a number of years younger than me?
Yeah, that's cool, I'll still share
Yassssssss!!! You actually did it!!!! Happy birthday! Lol. Next year, I also vote you get a photo of Mindy on the cake too!
Ha! I know right? I saw that big 27 and thought wow...I'm....older. Twenty-something year olds, enjoy your beautiful elastic wrinkle free skin while you can. I just started using eye cream two weeks ago...years late I'm sure.
I'm sad that nobody wants to rent the treehouse with me!
Not getting to stay in this bomb-ass treehouse might be the most disappointing thing about applying to/interviewing at sites mainly in the Northeast and Midwest. That and how bone-chillingly cold it's going to be. But missing out on the treehouse is also up there.
Hope everyone is enjoying the calm before another flurry of interviews (do people have interviews this week??). I just received notice that my flight schedule in January completely changed (thanks, cheap airlines!) and am unable to make it in person on 1/8 to VCU counseling center. Does anyone who is interviewing another date (1/12 is my preferred) have any flexibility and want to switch dates? I would greatly appreciate it!!
The fact that you actually followed through with this AND THEN CAME HERE AND SHARED A PHOTO is just fabulous. Your commitment runs deep.
I'm sad that I have no justifiable reason to go to Atlanta and share that treehouse with you. Book it, just book it. Once in a lifetime opportunity, and I highly doubt you will ever regret doing it but you may regret that you didn't.
It's still available on the 9th...I'm just sayin'.
Thanks!!! I had a rather extensive conversation with the cake lady who low-key told me that when they do the pictures on the cakes, the fondant can get kinda weird-texture wise and doesn't taste particularly good, so she actually recommended just the text. It was a good call
Hahah, thanks! I figured if anyone would appreciate it, y'all would so I wanted to share it with the #forumfam
Maybe I'll reach out to the sites who are way past their notification dates with no communication. Not because I harbor false hope, but just so they're inconvenienced by the email. #equalpartspettyandthirsty.
Baskin Robbins does a good job with pics in case you like ice cream
Well you did basically pay for that notification!
Mental health center of Florida
12/27 (notification date posted 1/5)
Dates TBD next week in a follow up email
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Effin FINALLY, WellSpan.
*This is NOT WellSpan Philhaven Hospital, but rather WellSpan Philhaven CBT
Site: WellSpan Philhaven CBT
Notification: mass email on 12/28
Any thoughts on writing thank you notes to interviewers who don't seem to have an email address listed online? I recently had a phone interview with 2 staff members whose first names were shared with me, and I was able to find their full names on the program website but I can't find email addresses. Should I just let it go and not write thank you emails, or contact the administrative assistant who did the scheduling and ask if s/he has their email addresses? The phone interview was at a UCC, and I imagine UCC people might tend to feel positively about thank you emails?
Honestly it doesn’t matter much, if at all. One thank you email/note to the TD saying something like “please extend my thanks to all the interviewers” is adequate.
If their emails aren’t publicly available it may be a conscious choice to limit the amount of email received.
This. I frequently just forward the thank you emails to everyone even if individual ones are sent out.
Has anyone who phone interviewed anywhere that said the next step would be the site would tell you whether or not you were still in the running and invite you to an open house heard one way or another from these interviews yet? I’ve had one of these and heard of students in similar situations at three other sites.