2023-2024 APPIC Internship Interview Invitation Thread

[WisNeuro]

@summerbabe and @WisNeuro - sorry for all the questions! But thank you for being so helpful!! I have been curious about the deadline extensions and what they mean? Not enough applicants? Or something else?

Possibly, could be other factors as well, tech issues or whatnot.

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[summerbabe]

@summerbabe and @WisNeuro - sorry for all the questions! But thank you for being so helpful!! I have been curious about the deadline extensions and what they mean? Not enough applicants? Or something else?

Most likely not enough applications. Every site likely has a target for how many interviews they would like to offer so if you haven’t hit that mark, extending is one of your only options.

My VA is a bit down from our average but not low enough to be of major concern so we are not extending.

I did hear that applications to VA as a whole are down and speculation that especially low/unadjusted stipends compared to recent cost of living spikes might be playing a role.

 

[psych.meout]

Most likely not enough applications. Every site likely has a target for how many interviews they would like to offer so if you haven’t hit that mark, extending is one of your only options.

My VA is a bit down from our average but not low enough to be of major concern so we are not extending.

I did hear that applications to VA as a whole are down and speculation that especially low/unadjusted stipends compared to recent cost of living spikes might be playing a role.

I can definitely see that. In a couple of the cities where I applied to both VA and AMC sites, the stipend for the AMC internship was about $10,000 more than the VA internship stipend. Kind of absurd.

 

[Psychdoccandidate]

Does anyone know of any scholarships, grants, etc. that we can apply for the internship year? I am moving with my entire family (two kids) and these stipends will barely get us a roof. I want to make sure I leave no stone unturned for options of additional funding wherever it could be.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Does anyone know of any scholarships, grants, etc. that we can apply for the internship year? I am moving with my entire family (two kids) and these stipends will barely get us a roof. I want to make sure I leave no stone unturned for options of additional funding wherever it could be.

I would ask your school if they have anything. And this is a great question to ask at the interview.

I will say, having completed my internship 3 years ago, I was shocked at some current interns responses when I asked them "So how is cost of living in this area? Do you feel like you can afford it?" and some straight up said "no, I had to take out private loans to be able to afford my bills."

People do what they have to do, I guess, but that is insanity to me. Personally, I ranked sites higher that had better match between CoL and stipend. I did not apply to any sites where it was highly imbalanced (like some site in SoCal that paid 28k per year!!)

The midwest has a lot of great sites. Similarly, some sites offer on-site housing (but not sure if children are allowed there).

 

[WisNeuro]

I would ask your school if they have anything. And this is a great question to ask at the interview.

I will say, having completed my internship 3 years ago, I was shocked at some current interns responses when I asked them "So how is cost of living in this area? Do you feel like you can afford it?" and some straight up said "no, I had to take out private loans to be able to afford my bills."

People do what they have to do, I guess, but that is insanity to me. Personally, I ranked sites higher that had better match between CoL and stipend. I did not apply to any sites where it was highly imbalanced (like some site in SoCal that paid 28k per year!!)

The midwest has a lot of great sites. Similarly, some sites offer on-site housing (but not sure if children are allowed there).

Just another plug for people to get involved in state and federal legislative advocacy around reimbursement issues. Interns are a net money loser at most sites due to reimbursement issues and not being able to bill for certain services delivered by trainees. Help get some of those laws changed, and you hopefully help raise those stipends.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Just another plug for people to get involved in state and federal legislative advocacy around reimbursement issues. Interns are a net money loser at most sites due to reimbursement issues and not being able to bill for certain services delivered by trainees. Help get some of those laws changed, and you hopefully help raise those stipends.

Is this just joining APA and the state orgs? And then telling them you want them to push for this? (not sure if this should go in it’s own thread, dont wanna clutter this one up too much)

 

[WisNeuro]

Is this just joining APA and the state orgs? And then telling them you want them to push for this? (not sure if this should go in it’s own thread, dont wanna clutter this one up too much)

APA is actively advocating for this very issue. So, joining an contributing to APAs legislative advocacy. Also, when it is CMS comment time and we post that link here on SDN, make sure you spend the time to comment, where you can specifically mention this issue.

 

[theSteppenwolf]

I know it's not supposed to be, but is age a factor in internship recruitment? For example, are non-traditional candidates at a disadvantage?

 

[WisNeuro]

I know it's not supposed to be, but is age a factor in internship recruitment? For example, are non-traditional candidates at a disadvantage?

Possibly, I haven't personally seen it. I've supervised a few 40-sometyhing over the years.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I know it's not supposed to be, but is age a factor in internship recruitment? For example, are non-traditional candidates at a disadvantage?

Hopefully not. When reviewing apps I wouldn't know unless it was said in an essay, I don't even look at undergrad stuff. I guess it could come up in an interview and there's risk of an unintentional bias but I don't really care about an intern's age.

 

[deleted1147464]

[mention]WisNeuro [/mention] [mention]summerbabe [/mention] Thank you both for being so incredibly helpful on this thread and sorry to bother you with another question- but how is it looked upon when you have to cancel an interview you already scheduled because another program sent you an invite much later (and did not have their interview date listed) and it is one that you believe matches with your training goals much better? Is there a proper way to do this? Is it very frowned upon?

 

[WisNeuro]

[mention]WisNeuro [/mention] [mention]summerbabe [/mention] Thank you both for being so incredibly helpful on this thread and sorry to bother you with another question- but how is it looked upon when you have to cancel an interview you already scheduled because another program sent you an invite much later (and did not have their interview date listed) and it is one that you believe matches with your training goals much better? Is there a proper way to do this? Is it very frowned upon?

The assumption if you are canceling well n advance is that you got another interview offer for a site you like better. It didn't change our rankings, but I can see someone being petty and questioning if you want to be there. Personally, I would see if the newer invite can accommodate another day first.

 

[deleted1147464]

The assumption if you are canceling well n advance is that you got another interview offer for a site you like better. It didn't change our rankings, but I can see someone being petty and questioning if you want to be there. Personally, I would see if the newer invite can accommodate another day first.

Thank you for your response! Oh I absolutely expected the former site would no longer rank me and was okay with that, but didn’t want to do something that is incredibly frowned upon by cancelling in general. I did email to see if the newer invite could accommodate another day and am waiting to hear back now.

 

[WisNeuro]

Thank you for your response! Oh I absolutely expected the former site would no longer rank me and was okay with that, but didn’t want to do something that is incredibly frowned upon by cancelling in general. I did email to see if the newer invite could accommodate another day and am waiting to hear back now.

I wouldn't expect that necessarily. If need be, an alternative phone interview schedule can be done.

 

[deleted1147464]

I wouldn't expect that necessarily. If need be, an alternative phone interview schedule can be done.

Oh wow, that's great to hear. I assumed that asking a site with a confirmed date to reschedule due to a scheduling conflict (and subsequently cancelling if they were not able to accommodate) would be a definite dealbreaker. My biggest concern was coming across as rude or unappreciative, so I am glad that it seems like this is not an uncommon occurrence.

 

[Psychdoccandidate]

I'm very confused about being waitlisted for an interview and being told that I am still able to rank the site? Wouldn't being on the waitlist mean that I am further down on their list of considerations? So, therefore, unlikely to match there? Isn't it risky for me to rank somewhere I didn't interview when others did interview there?

 

[summerbabe]

Thank you for your response! Oh I absolutely expected the former site would no longer rank me and was okay with that, but didn’t want to do something that is incredibly frowned upon by cancelling in general. I did email to see if the newer invite could accommodate another day and am waiting to hear back now.

Sites know that they are competing for quality candidates. I'm not a DCT but I would hope that people we are inviting will also be seen as competitive at other sites, which means conflicts will arise.

Asking your newer invite about possible accommodations is a good move since a tradeoff for having a later deadline is that your candidates will have committed dates already. And a tradeoff for locking people in early is that they will continue to receive more invites and want to attend all of them and the more competitive a candidate, the more likely they will have more conflicts.

If the newer site can't accommodate (or they can only offer a brief phone interview in lieu of a full day), go back to your first site and be polite, express continued interest in meeting faculty/ current interns and learning more about their program, and ask if they can accomodate a different interview date. Good luck!

I guess it could come up in an interview and there's risk of an unintentional bias but I don't really care about an intern's age.

re: unintentional bias - a lot of sites are looking for good interpersonal fit while also assessing for willingness to learn/be supervised during the intern year, which includes lots of subjective components. I can see age combined with personality/interpersonal presentation influencing these perceptions.

I'm very confused about being waitlisted for an interview and being told that I am still able to rank the site? Wouldn't being on the waitlist mean that I am further down on their list of considerations? So, therefore, unlikely to match there? Isn't it risky for me to rank somewhere I didn't interview when others did interview there?

I think one can technically rank any site that you want (maybe even places you don't apply to since those matches would automatically be eliminated by the algorithm). This site is telling you that even though they can't offer an interview due to limited slots, they believe you can be successful at their program.

If you rank them (and open the possibility of a binding match), you're basically deciding that if you don't match with one of the sites where you do interview, would you rather go there or try Phase 2? Of course, you can rank them higher than sites you do interview at or not rank them at all.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm very confused about being waitlisted for an interview and being told that I am still able to rank the site? Wouldn't being on the waitlist mean that I am further down on their list of considerations? So, therefore, unlikely to match there? Isn't it risky for me to rank somewhere I didn't interview when others did interview there?

Why would it be risky to rank it?

 

[Psychdoccandidate]

Why would it be risky to rank it?

Well, I’m not sure. Maybe if it was my top choice. Ranking it 1st would put others I might have more of a possibility to match with lower down and I end up with nothing. Maybe I need to re look at the matching process and I’m off base with this thought.

 

[WisNeuro]

Well, I’m not sure. Maybe if it was my top choice. Ranking it 1st would put others I might have more of a possibility to match with lower down and I end up with nothing. Maybe I need to re look at the matching process and I’m off base with this thought.

I think you are misunderstanding the ranking and matching process. Rank based on your preference, not where you think you are ranked highly.

 

[medititite_01]

Well, I’m not sure. Maybe if it was my top choice. Ranking it 1st would put others I might have more of a possibility to match with lower down and I end up with nothing. Maybe I need to re look at the matching process and I’m off base with this thought.

I think you are misunderstanding the ranking and matching process. Rank based on your preference, not where you think you are ranked highly.

If I understand the match correctly, I guess it could be risky because other applicants might potentially rank a different site 1st. So if a number of other applicants rank a site 1st, but you rank it 2nd, those people will get priority at matching with that site regardless of where you are specifically ranked, right? So if you rank a site that you didn't interview at first instead, you are essentially handicapping yourself a little bit for a different site that you otherwise liked - at least I that's my understanding. So in this case, it's not so much about how the other site ranks you as much as it is about how highly other applicants will rank the site.

 

[WisNeuro]

If I understand the match correctly, I guess it could be risky because other applicants might potentially rank a different site 1st. So if a number of other applicants rank a site 1st, but you rank it 2nd, those people will get priority at matching with that site regardless of where you are specifically ranked, right? So if you rank a site that you didn't interview at first instead, you are essentially handicapping yourself a little bit for a different site that you otherwise liked - at least I that's my understanding. So in this case, it's not so much about how the other site ranks you as much as it is about how highly other applicants will rank the site.

Generally speaking, only if that site also ranks that applicant highly. I.e., if an applicant ranks a site #1, but they rank that applicant #40, not a high chance of that applicant matching there, unless they have a ton of spots and/or other applicants do not rank it highly.

Bottom line, rank on preference for the best outcome, generally speaking.

 

[psychoticpsyduck]

If I understand the match correctly, I guess it could be risky because other applicants might potentially rank a different site 1st. So if a number of other applicants rank a site 1st, but you rank it 2nd, those people will get priority at matching with that site regardless of where you are specifically ranked, right? So if you rank a site that you didn't interview at first instead, you are essentially handicapping yourself a little bit for a different site that you otherwise liked - at least I that's my understanding. So in this case, it's not so much about how the other site ranks you as much as it is about how highly other applicants will rank the site.

Not quite. It would be based on where the site in question ranked the applicants. It would not matter at all where you ranked the sites relative to others, as you need to account for the site's ranked order list.

For simplicity's sake, let's say you ranked a site 2nd and the site ranked you 1st. Even if everyone else ranked them as first-choice, if they rank you higher, and assuming you don't match at any higher sites you ranked (in this case it could only be your your 1st choice), then you would match there.

This excerpt comes from the APAGS book (Williams-Nickelson et al., 2019) which I recommend, if you don't already have it:

"Why is it so important for you to rank programs in the order in which you truly prefer them? The Match algorithm has been specifically designed to allow you to think only about your own needs and preferences, providing an opportunity for you to make ranking decisions in as pressure-free an environment as possible. The computer has been programmed to respect your rankings, and you will be matched to the highest-ranked program on your list that ranks you and does not fill its positions with more-preferred applicants."

 

[psych.meout]

If I understand the match correctly, I guess it could be risky because other applicants might potentially rank a different site 1st. So if a number of other applicants rank a site 1st, but you rank it 2nd, those people will get priority at matching with that site regardless of where you are specifically ranked, right? So if you rank a site that you didn't interview at first instead, you are essentially handicapping yourself a little bit for a different site that you otherwise liked - at least I that's my understanding. So in this case, it's not so much about how the other site ranks you as much as it is about how highly other applicants will rank the site.

Don't overthink it or try to game the system, just rank sites based on your actual preferences.

 

[summerbabe]

When it comes to rank, try to shut out extra noise and rank based on where you would be happiest to match. That’s the only thing you can control. Anticipating what sites or other applicants are doing will only lead to second guessing and not making the best choice for you.

But right now, as invites are still waiting to be extended and most interviews haven’t even happened yet, there’s no need to focus on rank. Get to know sites, gather info, and listen to yourself and potentially re-evaluate what you want from internship because that can change throughout the process (it did for me).

 

[medititite_01]

Not quite. It would be based on where the site in question ranked the applicants. It would not matter at all where you ranked the sites relative to others, as you need to account for the site's ranked order list.

For simplicity's sake, let's say you ranked a site 2nd and the site ranked you 1st. Even if everyone else ranked them as first-choice, if they rank you higher, and assuming you don't match at any sites you ranked, then you would match there.

This excerpt comes from the APAGS book (Williams-Nickelson et al., 2019) which I recommend, if you don't already have it:

"Why is it so important for you to rank programs in the order in which you truly prefer them? The Match algorithm has been specifically designed to allow you to think only about your own needs and preferences, providing an opportunity for you to make ranking decisions in as pressure-free an environment as possible. The computer has been programmed to respect your rankings, and you will be matched to the highest-ranked program on your list that ranks you and does not fill its positions with more-preferred applicants."

This is a hugely helpful explanation. I always thought that it primarily prioritized the student's rank such that it would take someone who ranked a site first over someone who ranked it second even if the second person was ranked higher by the program. This explanation definitely clears that up - thank you! Makes me feel better looking ahead.

 

[jdawg2017]

This is a hugely helpful explanation. I always thought that it primarily prioritized the student's rank such that it would take someone who ranked a site first over someone who ranked it second even if the second person was ranked higher by the program. This explanation definitely clears that up - thank you! Makes me feel better looking ahead.

I found the video by the NMS actually really helpful in explaining it:

I know many students who really don't understand the match, and sadly I even know some faculty at newer sites who don't seem to understand it as well. It weights both equally and there is no reason to not rank as many sites/tracks as you can, and same thing for sites to rank as many applicants as they can realistically. You just need to be prepared to be legally obligated to abide by anything you rank.

 

[preschoolbrains]

I found the video by the NMS actually really helpful in explaining it:

I know many students who really don't understand the match, and sadly I even know some faculty at newer sites who don't seem to understand it as well. It weights both equally and there is no reason to not rank as many sites/tracks as you can, and same thing for sites to rank as many applicants as they can realistically. You just need to be prepared to be legally obligated to abide by anything you rank.

Super helpful!!

 

[preschoolbrains]

Any news on UNC SOM?

 

[Meninges Mama]

Most likely not enough applications. Every site likely has a target for how many interviews they would like to offer so if you haven’t hit that mark, extending is one of your only options.

My VA is a bit down from our average but not low enough to be of major concern so we are not extending.

I did hear that applications to VA as a whole are down and speculation that especially low/unadjusted stipends compared to recent cost of living spikes might be playing a role.

And last year all VAs across the country cut vision and dental insurance for interns.....smaller things to consider.....

 

[Aplc2017]

Official Site Name: Mississippi State Hospital
Specialty Track or Site (e.g., for consortiums): N/A
Date Invitation Received: 12/07
Method of Invitation (Phone call, personal/mass email): Phone call from TD followed by email with dates available
Interview Dates Offered: 12/16, 01/11, 01/18

 

[BippityBoppityBoo]

It seems like on average sites invite about 10 people per position? It is very difficult to get a sense of how competitive a site is when there is more than one track, but based on the aforementioned statement, is it likely to hold that they will also invite ten people per position. I.e. if a site has 4 adult track, 2 child track, 1 neuro track can we assume they've invited 40 adult applicants, 20 child applicants and 10 neuro applicants? I know it doesn't really matter but I am curious.

 

[PsychPhDone]

It seems like on average sites invite about 10 people per position? It is very difficult to get a sense of how competitive a site is when there is more than one track, but based on the aforementioned statement, is it likely to hold that they will also invite ten people per position. I.e. if a site has 4 adult track, 2 child track, 1 neuro track can we assume they've invited 40 adult applicants, 20 child applicants and 10 neuro applicants? I know it doesn't really matter but I am curious.

Will vary obviously but at my old location we did ten per slot, as described in your post.

 

[PsyNeuro37]

It seems like on average sites invite about 10 people per position? It is very difficult to get a sense of how competitive a site is when there is more than one track, but based on the aforementioned statement, is it likely to hold that they will also invite ten people per position. I.e. if a site has 4 adult track, 2 child track, 1 neuro track can we assume they've invited 40 adult applicants, 20 child applicants and 10 neuro applicants? I know it doesn't really matter but I am curious.

The VA I interned at invited 10 applicants to interview per track position. There was a pretty large variability of applicants per track. Of the ~150 applicants the site would get a year, I was told typically ~50% of applicants applied for the neuro track, ~20% applied for the trauma/ptsd track, and the remaining applicants were spread out pretty evenly across the other tracks. There’s also a little overlap because some people apply for multiple tracks.

 

[AmazonEcho]

Has anyone heard from UMass Chan Medical School?

No one has reported either interviews or rejections on the spreadsheet, but in the notes cell, someone said they had to email the DCT for an unrelated reason today, and he stated that the app review is finished. This site notifies by phone, so I think a lot of us are wondering if this silence means they're just later than normal on this and haven't notified anyone yet, or if it suggests that none of the people who got interviews are spreadsheet users (and thus didn't post about it).

 

[PsychGrad24]

Should I send Thank Yous after VA interviews or naw? If so, do I only send to training director or everyone I interviewed with? Does it matter either way? I don't want to seem disinterested but don't want to be annoying and clog inboxes.

 

[WisNeuro]

Should I send Thank Yous after VA interviews or naw? If so, do I only send to training director or everyone I interviewed with? Does it matter either way? I don't want to seem disinterested but don't want to be annoying and clog inboxes.

Does not matter, I have never heard thank you notes mentioned in ranking meetings over the many years I reviewed apps and conducted interviews.

 

[AmazonEcho]

Has anyone heard from UMass Chan Medical School?

No one has reported either interviews or rejections on the spreadsheet, but in the notes cell, someone said they had to email the DCT for an unrelated reason today, and he stated that the app review is finished. This site notifies by phone, so I think a lot of us are wondering if this silence means they're just later than normal on this and haven't notified anyone yet, or if it suggests that none of the people who got interviews are spreadsheet users (and thus didn't post about it).

Update—they are now slowly sending out interview invites, although via email this year (rather than by phone as stated on their website).

 

[theSteppenwolf]

Update—they are now slowly sending out interview invites, although via email this year (rather than by phone as stated on their website).

Hope it is slowly.

 

[BippityBoppityBoo]

How is it possible that some really competitive sites end up having openings in phase II? Why wouldn't the positions have been filled in the first phase? Some really great sites were available in the Phase II last year which is giving me hope but clearly I am missing something in terms of how they got there... are more posts opened up post match?

 

[PsyNeuro37]

How is it possible that some really competitive sites end up having openings in phase II? Why wouldn't the positions have been filled in the first phase? Some really great sites were available in the Phase II last year which is giving me hope but clearly I am missing something in terms of how they got there... are more posts opened up post match?

Sites only have time to interview so many applicants. Top sites are going to interview the top applicants in the national pool. Top applicants are going to have lots of great options and be harder to match with.

 

[WisNeuro]

Sites only have time to interview so many applicants. Top sites are going to interview the top applicants in the national pool. Top applicants are going to have lots of great options and be harder to match with.

Also, there are many more sites these days than there used to be, so, fewer applicants to go around. The APA over-corrected a mostly false "internship crisis" about 20 years ago.

 

[WisNeuro]

But why I feel it has become more competitive this year in terms of more applications and fewer interview spots for the top sites...

I don't believe we have the numbers to make that assumption yet.

 

[nycpredoc1]

Has anyone else not received an interview or a rejection from Westchester Jewish Community Services?

 

[BippityBoppityBoo]

Has anyone else not received an interview or a rejection from Westchester Jewish Community Services?

Not yet! I wonder if we still have a chance considering the email invites were mass emails?

 

[BippityBoppityBoo]

Has anyone else not received an interview or a rejection from Westchester Jewish Community Services?

Anything for you today? I still have heard nothing and it’s 3:15?

 

[preschoolbrains]

I just received an invitation to interview at Duke! I thought for sure I’d be receiving a rejection since invitations were sent via mass email in mid November. So excited!

 

[nycpredoc1]

Anything for you today? I still have heard nothing and it’s 3:15?

I received a rejection at like 2:45

 

[BippityBoppityBoo]

I received a rejection at like 2:45

I’m sorry 😞 I still haven’t received anything?