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Listen, the reality is the 1.5 billion cuts have to start somewhere at Walgreens. High supply of new pharmacists, high desire to cut operating costs. Student want to pay of loans, Walgreens wants cheaper pharmacist labor. It’s practically a match made in heaven at this point guys.
 
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BidingMyTime

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Why'd you accept? Negotiate for higher imo

Pay has *never* been negotiable, not during the great pharmacist shortage, not for retail, not for hospital. During the shortage, places would negotiate on vacation time, insurance, bonus sign-on and other benefits, but never pay. Because they already had their pay scales set, and they weren't going to piss off all the current pharmacists by bringing in a new pharmacist at higher pay. Certainly now that there is a saturation, there is no way any place will negotiate pay with a pharmacist (and not any of the benefits either.)
 

BMBiology

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That's the difference between you young bucks and us long term pharmacists.

If you can't find time to enjoy your job, you are doing something wrong.

You may now bring up how that isn't possible if you would like.
Just wait until they cut old timers’ salary. We will find out how much passion you have for pharmacy then.
 

Ace41690

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Where? Only heard of rates that low for a centralized pharmacist or for "mtm" pharmacists that make calls all day.
 

footfairy

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Is the OP going to post the offer letter or give any information aside from a potentially fake assertion about pay rates? I'm sure some other WBA pharmacists could get their managers to show then the current RPH pay scale to confirm, but this guy should really provide some more details of his own.
 

BMBiology

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Is the OP going to post the offer letter or give any information aside from a potentially fake assertion about pay rates? I'm sure some other WBA pharmacists could get their managers to show then the current RPH pay scale to confirm, but this guy should really provide some more details of his own.
Sorry buddy but there is nothing fake about the lowball offer. Wag is cutting $1.5B.
 
Feb 16, 2018
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Pay has *never* been negotiable, not during the great pharmacist shortage, not for retail, not for hospital. During the shortage, places would negotiate on vacation time, insurance, bonus sign-on and other benefits, but never pay. Because they already had their pay scales set, and they weren't going to piss off all the current pharmacists by bringing in a new pharmacist at higher pay. Certainly now that there is a saturation, there is no way any place will negotiate pay with a pharmacist (and not any of the benefits either.)
I have negotiated my salary several times successfully. Recently and in the past. Sometimes its as easy as a phone call.

I, for one, am waiting for the pay rate at major retailers to reach the high 30 dollar an hour rate where I started as a pharmacist. But back when I started multiple job offers could be had before graduation, the workload was tremendously better, there was more help to get the work done, the business of pharmacy was more secure and therefore my future, bonuses were ample and an education could be had for under $50,000. Plus no opiate epidemic to deal with. You could go in fill your scripts and get everything done hours before the end of the day then stand around and talk. There was more time to help people as well. I feel bad for the pharmacy students who buy the current bag of goods. Pharmacy by in large will never be a clinical field- there are NPs PAs, MDs, why are pharmacists needed? And now the state of major retailers even the retail pharmacist is relegated to a paltry choice of employers for ever declining wages and work conditions.
 
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This is also why over 70% of people hate their job, pharmacists or others professions.

No one needs 6 figures to be happy.
If some people think their job should be the source of their happiness, I would venture that there is something wrong with these people.


One does not need to love their job; they need not to hate it...


I agree that most people do not need 6 figure salary to be happy...
 
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While I agree your job shouldn’t define your happiness, feeling that you aren’t adequately compensated for your troubles at work is an important issue.
Well, that's why no pharmacist should accept <100k/yr for a full-time job.

If a CT/MRI tech can make 70k+/yr with an AS degree and no student loan in a low-stress job, why would someone go to school for 6+ years to get a PharmD degree and accept a stressful job that pays <100k/yr while having a 200k+ student loan? I would not do it but to each his own...
 
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BMBiology

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I agree that most people do not need 6 figure salary to be happy...
There are a whole bunch of things we don’t “need” but why shouldn’t I take $150 k over $100 k for doing the same job?

Let’s also not talk about what you should or should not do or what makes you happy. That is really individualize and none of my business. If you do a good job, I don’t really care what motivated you.
 

confettiflyer

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This thread just goes to show everyone joined this profession for the money.

Next time do something you're compassionate about.
But people need to be less emotional and more objective, people need to consider COL, opportunity costs, investment potential, and income growth.

Screw emotions!
 

gwarm01

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Pay has *never* been negotiable, not during the great pharmacist shortage, not for retail, not for hospital. During the shortage, places would negotiate on vacation time, insurance, bonus sign-on and other benefits, but never pay. Because they already had their pay scales set, and they weren't going to piss off all the current pharmacists by bringing in a new pharmacist at higher pay. Certainly now that there is a saturation, there is no way any place will negotiate pay with a pharmacist (and not any of the benefits either.)
I've negotiated higher pay in two different hospital jobs, including my first one as a new grad with no residency. Your success rate is just determined by many unseen variables.
 

BMBiology

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I've negotiated higher pay in two different hospital jobs, including my first one as a new grad with no residency. Your success rate is just determined by many unseen variables.
It is much harder to negotiate in retail. If they give you a bump, then they would also have to do the same with dozens of other pharmacists too
 

WVUPharm2007

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This thread just goes to show everyone joined this profession for the money.

Next time do something you're compassionate about.

Who the hell claims they do pharmacy for anything but the money. Not a damn one of us on here would be in pharmacy if it paid $15/hr.
 

gwarm01

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It is much harder to negotiate in retail. If they give you a bump, then they would also have to do the same with dozens of other pharmacists too
I'm honestly surprised I was able to get anything extra for my first job. I received the offer from HR, told them I had a higher offer elsewhere, and they called back about an hour later with a $2/hr bump. Not much, but basically two years worth of raises for practically zero effort on my part.

Who the hell claims they do pharmacy for anything but the money. Not a damn one of us on here would be in pharmacy if it paid $15/hr.
What about our resident car dweller?
 

wagrxm2000

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Who the hell claims they do pharmacy for anything but the money. Not a damn one of us on here would be in pharmacy if it paid $15/hr.
Well no but the profession would be full of way better people instead of these money hungry new grads if we got paid $40/hour.
 
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3boooda

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If you accept $46/hr offer thinking you will get raise every 6 months or even once a year, I am confidently telling you “Not gonna happen”
 

APN-59 rph

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This is what supply and demand look like... Glad I dodged that bullet but unfortunately, medicine is heading in the same direction.
I "think" it was NYT Magazine where I read an article about the medical delivery system that is being developed in India...very, very pointed cost cutting measures...surgeons doing six plus procedures a day....a nurse or PA opens...surgeon does the main procedure....nurse gas passer...PA or nurse closes.....seems like a serious effort that could spread? Worth the read....
 
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BMBiology

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Well no but the profession would be full of way better people instead of these money hungry new grads if we got paid $40/hour.
Better? I don’t know what planet you live on but money is a huge motivator to be the best that you can be. Why do you think investment banking and computer science draw the brightest people who are willing to work 80 hours a week?
 
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I just can't see pharmacists dancing to the beat of all of those ridiculous metrics for $40 an hour. And the cost of education in both time and $$$ isn't nearly worth the investment. I just can't imagine what makes a career in pharmacy look attractive to anyone anymore... Gonna be interesting what the future holds for a lot of medical careers though. Physicians are being replaced by cheaper midlevels. PT isn't what it used to be. There is already getting to be a surplus of PAs and CRNPs. A career in any health care field (other than maybe nursing) is a gamble at this point....
 
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This is what happens when the smart people let the stupid bean counters take over. I had a friend die during a simple procedure at a local teaching hospital. He died of an infection caused by the equipment not being properly cleaned between patients. But because he didn't die of the surgery itself the hospital counted the surgery as "successful". That's the kind of people we're up against....
 
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All medical professionals should get together and stage a one day national walkout to teach these f*ckers at the top a lesson as to who really makes the world go 'round...
 
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stoichiometrist

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Pharmacy is only worth it only if you have the same passion for it as many teachers, artists, actors and actresses, etc. have for theirs. Many of the latter are willing to make immense sacrifices which includes waiting tables or driving for Uber to make ends meet. Many of them are willing to work pro bono (read: for free) just so they can fulfill their passion. Many teachers have to pay for school supplies for their students from their own salaries.

Yet I constantly hear from Pre-Pharms and current students about how they don't want to work retail and don't want to move out of LA or NYC to help underserved communities.
 
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I say thanks daily that I'm close enough to the end of my career in pharmacy that I can watch the profession crash and burn as it is inevitably going to do. I hope I'm alive in twenty years to see what things ultimately become...call it morbid curiosity. Like watching a train wreck or car accident...
 

mentos

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Pharmacy is only worth it only if you have the same passion for it as many teachers, artists, actors and actresses, etc. have for theirs. Many of the latter are willing to make immense sacrifices which includes waiting tables or driving for Uber to make ends meet. Many of them are willing to work pro bono (read: for free) just so they can fulfill their passion. Many teachers have to pay for school supplies for their students from their own salaries.

Yet I constantly hear from Pre-Pharms and current students about how they don't want to work retail and don't want to move out of LA or NYC to help underserved communities.
That's cause they're lying when they say they are passionate about pharmacy. Take away the 6 figure salary and suddenly they don't want to help people!
 

BidingMyTime

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I have negotiated my salary several times successfully. Recently and in the past. Sometimes its as easy as a phone call.
I've negotiated higher pay in two different hospital jobs, including my first one as a new grad with no residency. Your success rate is just determined by many unseen variables.
Well, I guess I am a bad negotiator...maybe it had to do with the area of the country?
 

footfairy

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Sorry buddy but there is nothing fake about the lowball offer. Wag is cutting $1.5B.
There 100% could be something fake about the offer. If it's real he could upload a redacted version of it. No one here is arguing that Walgreens wouldn't pull some stuff like this, but I'm not gonna drink the kool-aid of imaginary offers with no proof either.
 

Sine Cura

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I just can't see pharmacists dancing to the beat of all of those ridiculous metrics for $40 an hour. And the cost of education in both time and $$$ isn't nearly worth the investment. I just can't imagine what makes a career in pharmacy look attractive to anyone anymore... Gonna be interesting what the future holds for a lot of medical careers though. Physicians are being replaced by cheaper midlevels. PT isn't what it used to be. There is already getting to be a surplus of PAs and CRNPs. A career in any health care field (other than maybe nursing) is a gamble at this point....
Who is passionate about the following in chain retail?
  • Writing action plans
  • Conference calls
  • Nagging from field manager/DM
  • Babysitting clueless techs and pharmacists who should be fired for their incompetence but soft HR policies prevent it
  • Documenting every little "red flag" for "controlled substance verification" like a dentist or patient not being within 3 miles of your store
  • Telling hospitalists or absolutely clueless PCP offices they need to write for glucose testing supplies or syringes/pen needles to be covered by insurance; we don't hand those out for free (how many times do you need to be told; we cannot be the only pharmacy that tells you this and there are like 20 pharmacies in a 5 mile radius of your office)
  • Explaining the minutiae of insurances (opioid 7-day limit is one good example) to every pissed off customer or clinic
  • The more Medicaid you deal with (in terms of scripts filled via Medicaid or dealing with clinics that are 100% Medicaid) the more bull**** there is
Now do all of the above with increasing cuts to tech hrs

Retail pharmacy is a total joke and chains amplify or pile on the bull****

Now one thing Walgreens in California (or at least in this particular northern Ca geographic area) appears to very smart about is minimizing exposure to Medicaid (not worth filling these scripts) whereas Walmart takes the opposite approach (just get people in the door even though the Rx are trash).
 
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stoichiometrist

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That's cause they're lying when they say they are passionate about pharmacy. Take away the 6 figure salary and suddenly they don't want to help people!
Or throw them in a busy retail pharmacy with minimal or no tech help.

Then they’ll just promise that they’ll work hard and stand out so they won’t have to be part of the majority of pharmacists that are in retail.
 
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Just wait until they cut old timers’ salary. We will find out how much passion you have for pharmacy then.
I always wanted to work in healthcare and have been reading on pharmacy for a while... (was going to apply to pharmacy schools instead of medical schools as I thought I would be old for medicine). From what I read here, you were one of many who sounded alarm about the over supply of schools and pharmacists for years. Now I read again, and you were right in all your predictions!

Pharmacy schools and pharmacy jobs are really excellent examples of supply-demand. I think the schools are the primary culprit for all this downfall... Any of them is going to take responsibility for misleading students with all that "shortage" data and false forecast of demand for pharmacists? There should be a class action suit against the schools just like those against big pharmas.

Question: what is next for pharmacy schools and the future of the profession? Correction? Closing down of schools? Robots?
 
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There are a whole bunch of things we don’t “need” but why shouldn’t I take $150 k over $100 k for doing the same job?

Let’s also not talk about what you should or should not do or what makes you happy. That is really individualize and none of my business. If you do a good job, I don’t really care what motivated you.

Better? I don’t know what planet you live on but money is a huge motivator to be the best that you can be. Why do you think investment banking and computer science draw the brightest people who are willing to work 80 hours a week?
great insights! (same with medicine, I guess)
 

msweph

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Countering gwarms post, I have had two hospital jobs, one as a new grad and one with plenty of experience, and I did not successfuly negotiate a higher hourly rate at either.

The first I was a new grad and did not ask, the second I was denied.
 

Lnsean

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There are major controls in medicine. The number of residency slot is limited by the government as CMS pays for each resident. So there can only be so many physicians churned out every year.
The way around this is mid-levels. There has been dramatic increases in NPs and PAs. Also, residency spots have been increasing despite popular belief. All of healthcare is saturated.
 

emergentmd

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Medicine like any field get get saturated. I am not blind that docs can eventually be at the same supply and demand predicament and our pay will go down. Nothing can go against basic economics.

The big problem w pharmacist is 90% work in retail and are not really needed. Most Americans would love an amazon of pharmacy where there is next day deliver or two day.

There is very little need to talk to a pharmacist with google now a days. Most just go to pick up meds and pharmacists add very little to the vast majority of the patient experience.

The only way for your field to get better is to close down 1/2 of the schools.

I find it ridiculous that people I know with sub 3.0 Gpa can get into a school. I have a friend with a sub 3 that thought she could get into med school. Then PA school. After 5 futile yrs, she got into pharmacy school after one try.

What an embarrassment pharmacy has become.
 

TheBlaah

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I've negotiated higher pay in two different hospital jobs, including my first one as a new grad with no residency. Your success rate is just determined by many unseen variables.
Countering gwarms post, I have had two hospital jobs, one as a new grad and one with plenty of experience, and I did not successfuly negotiate a higher hourly rate at either.
I similarly negotiated for higher pay at a hospital at my second job. I was denied and told they were locked in that rate based on their payroll determination for initial pay.

I was however able to negotiate a pay increase twice successfully after the initial hiring based on competence and increase in workload.
 
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The way around this is mid-levels. There has been dramatic increases in NPs and PAs. Also, residency spots have been increasing despite popular belief. All of healthcare is saturated.
What percentage has residency increased over the past 5 years compared to increase in number of pharmacists? Citation please. You may know more than I do about it. But there are still limits. And not much saturation in subspecialty medicine, yet.
 

wagrxm2000

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Medicine like any field get get saturated. I am not blind that docs can eventually be at the same supply and demand predicament and our pay will go down. Nothing can go against basic economics.

The big problem w pharmacist is 90% work in retail and are not really needed. Most Americans would love an amazon of pharmacy where there is next day deliver or two day.

There is very little need to talk to a pharmacist with google now a days. Most just go to pick up meds and pharmacists add very little to the vast majority of the patient experience.

The only way for your field to get better is to close down 1/2 of the schools.

I find it ridiculous that people I know with sub 3.0 Gpa can get into a school. I have a friend with a sub 3 that thought she could get into med school. Then PA school. After 5 futile yrs, she got into pharmacy school after one try.

What an embarrassment pharmacy has become.
Mail order already exists

At this point everyone still going to the pharmacy would rather get out of their house then get it in the mail.

Places like Walgreens also already offers delivery.
 
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