pharmalt82

7+ Year Member
May 5, 2010
156
28
161
Status
Wait, where is this 95k/year?
I'm in NYCs suburbs and a relative was offered more than that as a 32h/week guaranteed and will most likely hit 40h/week. This is for WAGs.
A friend in the mid-west was offered just slightly below that.
I'm usually a pessimistic person, but, things are bad in the job market IF YOU ARE A MORON.
Contrary to popular belief, idiots seldom get a job as a pharmacist.
They may get that degree though!
Nevertheless, I hope this entire forum keeps promoting the "sky is falling" mentality.
This way, fewer people go into pharmacy and keep our pay high.
:joyful:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: nonizondi

mentos

7+ Year Member
Nov 22, 2009
1,232
1,444
181
Status
Wait, where is this 95k/year?
I'm in NYCs suburbs and a relative was offered more than that as a 32h/week guaranteed and will most likely hit 40h/week. This is for WAGs.
A friend in the mid-west was offered just slightly below that.
I'm usually a pessimistic person, but, things are bad in the job market IF YOU ARE A MORON.
Nevertheless, I hope this entire forum keeps promoting the "sky is falling" mentality.
This way, fewer people go into pharmacy and keep our pay high.
:joyful:
When did they get those offers, before or after they announced $1.5bil in cuts? Are you saying your friend is a moron for getting less than OP's offer?

We've reached the point of no return already. Even if all pharmacy schools closed tomorrow, our pay is not going any higher. There's just too many Rphs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: olabrador23

pharmalt82

7+ Year Member
May 5, 2010
156
28
161
Status
When did they get those offers, before or after they announced $1.5bil in cuts? Are you saying your friend is a moron for getting less than OP's offer?

We've reached the point of no return already. Even if all pharmacy schools closed tomorrow, our pay is not going any higher. There's just too many Rphs.
This last round of hiring is when these offers came through.
One for WAGs and the other for CVS.

95k/year is not bad at all if you are in a low cost-of-living area.
One of my friends moved with her husband to a low cost-of-living city in the mid-west and took a slight pay cut.
She is the happiest person I know.
Husband also works and they have 2 kids to manage. But, man do they have a beautiful yet cheap house that I envy.

But, in order to get these RPh jobs, you do need a good reputation as an intern or pharmacist.
We had this one moron in our district who couldn't land a job because she sucked at understanding basic workflow.
We were so helpful too.
The biggest shocker to me was that she still got a decent paying job through WAGs IN OUR DISTRICT.
She became the talk of the town. But, she improved dramatically over the past 2 years.
I don't expect those same miracles to happen again.
The days of being a crappy pharmacist and still getting a job are over and were destined to be over.
Be efficient and good at your job. Ignore some of the corporate bull**** which is present in every job in America and the world over.

I love how this forum has adopted a grass is greener mentality for every other profession.
My high school valedictorian is a genius and one of my closest friends.
He is an AI/ML expert and can't find a ****ing job.
My brother-in-law is a mechanical engineer turned software engineer who has had to change jobs and health insurance 5 times in the past 2 years.
These two are both way smarter than me.
Does this seem like fun to you? My consistent income has been kicking their asses on the books.
The MD/MBA at my old hospital job was a good friend who couldn't shut up about how doctor pay (yes, doctor pay) is destined to stagnate and decline because auxiliary sources of income, that kept pay high for doctors, are drying up and reimbursements are stagnating or decreasing. These are doctors that work insane shifts that make even floater pharmacist shifts look like a joke.

The problem right now is that too many people are clamoring over getting high-paying jobs in "hot" cities.
Look outside these cities and you will find a gold mine.

My big point is that it is bad for everyone right now.
I know that the media keeps saying that the economy is good and that pay is rising but this is really not true in my experience.
Pay is stagnant everywhere but so is inflation for the most part.

If you are unhappy with your pay in the long run, you are better off moving to a better location that respects your dollars.
Cheap, yet high quality housing makes you a winner.
That is what makes America great.
Moving is tough, but, worth it.

If you weather the storm, the air will be better than before.
As far as emotional fulfillment is concerned, I have gotten enough of that through my job.
Yes, some days are hard, but, not a day passes by that I don't have a truly appreciative patient.
Am I bragging? A little, but, it is justified. That small fulfillment is why I became a pharmacist and why I am happy and paid enough.

But, please, by all means: THE SKY IS FALLING. EVERYONE QUIT PHARMACY, NOW!

Sorry if I sound patronizing.
 
Apr 10, 2018
185
56
31
Status
Non-Student
Quit comparing yourselves to school teachers and nurses. Start comparing yourself to the good jobs of the real world. Boeing, Apple, Wall Street, and big 4 accounting all require better grades and a masters. If you don't make the cut your earning like 75k a year working 55 hours a week the rest of your life. Not to mention moving across the country to land one of these jobs. What you don't hear about is a huge variance in pharmacists pay. Should they pay you based on grades through school? Good students start out earning 150k and bad students start at 55k? Not to mention force you to move across the country for those high salaries?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: olabrador23

pencilandpen

5+ Year Member
Jul 27, 2012
120
145
131
Status
Pharmacist
This last round of hiring is when these offers came through.
One for WAGs and the other for CVS.

95k/year is not bad at all if you are in a low cost-of-living area.
One of my friends moved with her husband to a low cost-of-living city in the mid-west and took a slight pay cut.
She is the happiest person I know.
Husband also works and they have 2 kids to manage. But, man do they have a beautiful yet cheap house that I envy.

......
you make good points
 

Lnsean

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 26, 2009
2,269
1,419
281
Status
Medical Student
What percentage has residency increased over the past 5 years compared to increase in number of pharmacists? Citation please. You may know more than I do about it. But there are still limits. And not much saturation in subspecialty medicine, yet.
My point isn't to compare it to pharmacy (the barriers to getting into medicine are a bit higher). I am just saying that the popular belief that residency spots are not increasing isn't true at all. Most people, like yourself, have heard it at one point and just propagate it without caring to know if it's true or not. I'd even say that there has been a dramatic increase (probably 50% increase in residency spots) in the last 10 years or so alone.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf (page 7)

Anyways, I'm not here to get involved in debating which profession is more saturated. I'm saying that healthcare in general is already very saturated. Medicine has its own challenges: mid-levels, new schools opening (a lot of new DO schools been popping up), eg. Therefore, you should go into whatever makes you happy; you cannot predict what things will be like in 20 years.
 
Last edited:
Sep 22, 2018
37
33
21
Oregon
This last round of hiring is when these offers came through.
One for WAGs and the other for CVS.

95k/year is not bad at all if you are in a low cost-of-living area.
One of my friends moved with her husband to a low cost-of-living city in the mid-west and took a slight pay cut.
She is the happiest person I know.
Husband also works and they have 2 kids to manage. But, man do they have a beautiful yet cheap house that I envy.

But, in order to get these RPh jobs, you do need a good reputation as an intern or pharmacist.
We had this one moron in our district who couldn't land a job because she sucked at understanding basic workflow.
We were so helpful too.
The biggest shocker to me was that she still got a decent paying job through WAGs IN OUR DISTRICT.
She became the talk of the town. But, she improved dramatically over the past 2 years.
I don't expect those same miracles to happen again.
The days of being a crappy pharmacist and still getting a job are over and were destined to be over.
Be efficient and good at your job. Ignore some of the corporate bull**** which is present in every job in America and the world over.

I love how this forum has adopted a grass is greener mentality for every other profession.
My high school valedictorian is a genius and one of my closest friends.
He is an AI/ML expert and can't find a ****ing job.
My brother-in-law is a mechanical engineer turned software engineer who has had to change jobs and health insurance 5 times in the past 2 years.
These two are both way smarter than me.
Does this seem like fun to you? My consistent income has been kicking their asses on the books.
The MD/MBA at my old hospital job was a good friend who couldn't shut up about how doctor pay (yes, doctor pay) is destined to stagnate and decline because auxiliary sources of income, that kept pay high for doctors, are drying up and reimbursements are stagnating or decreasing. These are doctors that work insane shifts that make even floater pharmacist shifts look like a joke.

The problem right now is that too many people are clamoring over getting high-paying jobs in "hot" cities.
Look outside these cities and you will find a gold mine.

My big point is that it is bad for everyone right now.
I know that the media keeps saying that the economy is good and that pay is rising but this is really not true in my experience.
Pay is stagnant everywhere but so is inflation for the most part.

If you are unhappy with your pay in the long run, you are better off moving to a better location that respects your dollars.
Cheap, yet high quality housing makes you a winner.
That is what makes America great.
Moving is tough, but, worth it.

If you weather the storm, the air will be better than before.
As far as emotional fulfillment is concerned, I have gotten enough of that through my job.
Yes, some days are hard, but, not a day passes by that I don't have a truly appreciative patient.
Am I bragging? A little, but, it is justified. That small fulfillment is why I became a pharmacist and why I am happy and paid enough.

But, please, by all means: THE SKY IS FALLING. EVERYONE QUIT PHARMACY, NOW!

Sorry if I sound patronizing.
What about $95k with +$150k worth of loans? That sounds pretty bad too me.

Anecdotes vs anecdotes. I can list a bunch of friends who only have a bachelor's or master's who are doing way better than me right now (and I'm still making way more than $95k). I can tell you about very competent P4s I've precepted recently who still haven't gotten job offers days away from graduation or about how my previous company is continuously cutting hours and stopped hiring in certain areas. Anecdotes aside, I think if you look at the data for projected job growth vs new grads per year, pharmacy fares the worst out of other healthcare professions.
 
Sep 12, 2010
3,135
1,039
181
Status
Attending Physician
My point isn't to compare it to pharmacy (the barriers to getting into medicine are a bit higher). I am just saying that the popular belief that residency spots are not increasing isn't true at all. Most people, like yourself, have heard it at one point and just propagate it without caring to know if it's true or not. I'd even say that there has been a dramatic increase (probably 50% increase in residency spots) in the last 10 years or so alone.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf (page 7)

Anyways, I'm not here to get involved in debating which profession is more saturated. I'm saying that healthcare in general is already very saturated. Medicine has its own challenges: mid-levels, new schools opening (a lot of new DO schools been popping up), eg. Therefore, you should go into whatever makes you happy; you cannot predict what things will be like in 20 years.
I agree with some of what you wrote. The DO's will be going thru the same medical match. My point is that residency slots are limited, so the pop up phenomena that is happening with midlevels is less likely as the residency slots are allocated.

And yes, go into whatever makes you happy.
 

Lnsean

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 26, 2009
2,269
1,419
281
Status
Medical Student
I agree with some of what you wrote. The DO's will be going thru the same medical match. My point is that residency slots are limited, so the pop up phenomena that is happening with midlevels is less likely as the residency slots are allocated.

And yes, go into whatever makes you happy.
Midlevels are not governed by the same residency restrictions as MDs and DOs. You can get a DNP online at some places these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: olabrador23

pharmalt82

7+ Year Member
May 5, 2010
156
28
161
Status
In my opinion: the biggest issue that new grads face isn't finding a job, its the LOANS and UNWILLINGNESS TO MOVE.
If you didn't have a financial plan before starting pharmacy, you're screwed.
But, having a plan to pay loans off quickly is what I've been recommending to most of the new grads.
Every single person in my group of friends that graduated together has paid off their student loans but that's also because I agressively recommend that whenever we meet. :clown:

Being 30 and without any debt is becoming a rarity for people in America.
A doctor acquaintance managed to create a giant single mortgage of him and his wife's student loans, home loans, and car loans. He's 32 and says that he's taken a less aggressive approach because he wants to live a little after suffering through residency.
I can't fault people for wanting to this either.
When are you going to live after all?

I'm lucky to be in that dwindling pool of people without any debt at 31.
My plan is to die at 80 with millions in debt as a giant screw you to the world. :dead:

One option that new grads have is to work for lower pay in whatever area you desire if you have help from your parents with free rent and then move after your loans are paid off.
 
May 5, 2019
50
25
21
Status
Non-Student
This last round of hiring is when these offers came through.
One for WAGs and the other for CVS.

95k/year is not bad at all if you are in a low cost-of-living area.
One of my friends moved with her husband to a low cost-of-living city in the mid-west and took a slight pay cut.
She is the happiest person I know.
Husband also works and they have 2 kids to manage. But, man do they have a beautiful yet cheap house that I envy.

But, in order to get these RPh jobs, you do need a good reputation as an intern or pharmacist.
We had this one moron in our district who couldn't land a job because she sucked at understanding basic workflow.
We were so helpful too.
The biggest shocker to me was that she still got a decent paying job through WAGs IN OUR DISTRICT.
She became the talk of the town. But, she improved dramatically over the past 2 years.
I don't expect those same miracles to happen again.
The days of being a crappy pharmacist and still getting a job are over and were destined to be over.
Be efficient and good at your job. Ignore some of the corporate bull**** which is present in every job in America and the world over.

I love how this forum has adopted a grass is greener mentality for every other profession.
My high school valedictorian is a genius and one of my closest friends.
He is an AI/ML expert and can't find a ****ing job.
My brother-in-law is a mechanical engineer turned software engineer who has had to change jobs and health insurance 5 times in the past 2 years.
These two are both way smarter than me.
Does this seem like fun to you? My consistent income has been kicking their asses on the books.
The MD/MBA at my old hospital job was a good friend who couldn't shut up about how doctor pay (yes, doctor pay) is destined to stagnate and decline because auxiliary sources of income, that kept pay high for doctors, are drying up and reimbursements are stagnating or decreasing. These are doctors that work insane shifts that make even floater pharmacist shifts look like a joke.

The problem right now is that too many people are clamoring over getting high-paying jobs in "hot" cities.
Look outside these cities and you will find a gold mine.
My big point is that it is bad for everyone right now.
I know that the media keeps saying that the economy is good and that pay is rising but this is really not true in my experience.
Pay is stagnant everywhere but so is inflation for the most part.

If you are unhappy with your pay in the long run, you are better off moving to a better location that respects your dollars.
Cheap, yet high quality housing makes you a winner.
That is what makes America great.
Moving is tough, but, worth it.

If you weather the storm, the air will be better than before.
As far as emotional fulfillment is concerned, I have gotten enough of that through my job.
Yes, some days are hard, but, not a day passes by that I don't have a truly appreciative patient.
Am I bragging? A little, but, it is justified. That small fulfillment is why I became a pharmacist and why I am happy and paid enough.

But, please, by all means: THE SKY IS FALLING. EVERYONE QUIT PHARMACY, NOW!

Sorry if I sound patronizing.

When I reseached about pharmacy schools, this was exactly what I heard throughout the years from pharmacy schools and naive pre-pharms/pharmacists, which led to this point where things are now bad for everyone and will continue to be even worse!

yes, keep telling ourselves that then everything is going to be alright, especially for Pharmacy Schools! Geniuses (the schools)!
 

spacecowgirl

brr
15+ Year Member
Feb 27, 2004
2,450
437
381
in an igloo
Status
Pharmacist
Medicine like any field get get saturated. I am not blind that docs can eventually be at the same supply and demand predicament and our pay will go down. Nothing can go against basic economics.

The big problem w pharmacist is 90% work in retail and are not really needed. Most Americans would love an amazon of pharmacy where there is next day deliver or two day.

There is very little need to talk to a pharmacist with google now a days. Most just go to pick up meds and pharmacists add very little to the vast majority of the patient experience.

The only way for your field to get better is to close down 1/2 of the schools.

I find it ridiculous that people I know with sub 3.0 Gpa can get into a school. I have a friend with a sub 3 that thought she could get into med school. Then PA school. After 5 futile yrs, she got into pharmacy school after one try.

What an embarrassment pharmacy has become.
This post demonstrates great misunderstanding about retail pharmacy. You, as a presumably young, relatively healthy person utilize a pharmacy in a very different way than people with chronic disease, elderly people, people with complex medical problems - just as a young, healthy person utilizes their physician very differently than an elderly person.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mentos

Sine Cura

10 seconds or less
7+ Year Member
Feb 5, 2010
1,751
1,271
181
Status
Pharmacist
Distributing cheap plastic **** made in China is slightly different than distributing cheap drugs largely manufactured in India or China, which has slightly more regulation involved

Can you Google and access for free UpToDate articles outside of Norway? Can an untrained person actually even understand what they're reading?
 

MatCauthon

10+ Year Member
Sep 15, 2008
636
421
281
Status
working 55 hours in retail is not comparable to working 55 hours for a bank or a technology company. there are very few breaks if any, no where to sit down, constant overstimulation with no down time, no job variety, and few meaningful promotion opportunities. If the pay is reduced into the 70 to 90k range it becomes much harder to justify. there is no longterm stability, just corporate shareholders continually draining all the company profits and demanding more labor cost reduction. the 70 to 90k might be worth it with a bachelor's, but not with 4 extra years doctorate and the 150k to 300k plus that graduates are taking out.

you all haven't seen the full impact of the oversupply yet either. most of the retail companies are in downsizing mode right now and literally 15,000 new graduates about to flood the market. for those that didn't do residency, very few have jobs lined up. 2018 had the most unemployed new graduates since the pharmd rolled out and many more layoffs on top of that. 2019 is going to be even rougher.
 

Rainee

7+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2010
1,336
931
181
Status
It's crazy how this field has changed so much. I had pharmacist friends graduate in 2010 in the peak of the "need" for pharmacists in order to meet the supply of baby boomers. There was much celebration on FB about pharmacy day, and all the benefits etc. Slowly all of those posts have turned into "pharmacy is dying" posts.

All of them have told me the field has changed dramatically in 10 years and all are saving money/passive income because they dont think pharmacy has any legs to run on.

However that being said- there is still good opportunities around. They all went rural in their early years and tackled the overnight, overtime positions. 60-70 hour weeks and made their money and paid back their loans. Then they went back to metro to start and raise a family and their pay decreased dramatically but they are "happier."

So what's the point of this story? No clue, but man what a change on the pharmacy boards.
 

hwks09

Investment banking MD gambler
7+ Year Member
Aug 3, 2009
339
268
181
Status
MD/PhD Student, Pharmacist
It's crazy how this field has changed so much. I had pharmacist friends graduate in 2010 in the peak of the "need" for pharmacists in order to meet the supply of baby boomers. There was much celebration on FB about pharmacy day, and all the benefits etc. Slowly all of those posts have turned into "pharmacy is dying" posts.

All of them have told me the field has changed dramatically in 10 years and all are saving money/passive income because they dont think pharmacy has any legs to run on.

However that being said- there is still good opportunities around. They all went rural in their early years and tackled the overnight, overtime positions. 60-70 hour weeks and made their money and paid back their loans. Then they went back to metro to start and raise a family and their pay decreased dramatically but they are "happier."

So what's the point of this story? No clue, but man what a change on the pharmacy boards.
I saw this coming years ago which is why I grabbed an MD. It's unfortunate but pharmacy will be dead within the next 10 years, especially for clinical pharmacists who can be replaced with mid-level practitioners at the same cost and who can do more (diagnose, prescribe, administer medications).
 

Rainee

7+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2010
1,336
931
181
Status
I saw this coming years ago which is why I grabbed an MD. It's unfortunate but pharmacy will be dead within the next 10 years, especially for clinical pharmacists who can be replaced with mid-level practitioners at the same cost and who can do more (diagnose, prescribe, administer medications).
Yes I know of two pharmacists that switched to MD after working as a pharmacist for a few years. I thought they were crazy for doing so...now I think they are geniuses. Plus they were really intelligent...top in their class so it wouldn't be to hard for them to switch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: olabrador23

spacecowgirl

brr
15+ Year Member
Feb 27, 2004
2,450
437
381
in an igloo
Status
Pharmacist
I saw this coming years ago which is why I grabbed an MD. It's unfortunate but pharmacy will be dead within the next 10 years, especially for clinical pharmacists who can be replaced with mid-level practitioners at the same cost and who can do more (diagnose, prescribe, administer medications).
If I ever become a 25 year SDN member you can come and tell me you told me so, but I strongly disagree with this prognostication. Medicine is getting more complex, not less. No generalist can keep track of it all and many patients don't have access to the sub-sub-specialist who can. I interface with many HCPs across variety of settings from top academics to rural clinics and the knowledge base, even among specialists, is as varied as the practice sites. Those who have a deep knowledge are not seeing 20 pts a day and vice versa. This is not a criticism of MD/DOs and APPs, not at all - it's just that with rare exception no one has that sort of time, energy or mental disk space to do it all. "Clinical" pharmacists can and should serve as treatment experts (and before we go there, for every "I met this stupid PGY2 trained clinical pharmacist who didn't know dick" I can give (general) you several "I met this dumb doctor who did XYZ" anecdotes). Until the time when we have Star Trek body scanning, scalable/affordable gene therapies, the complexity will only increase. And when we do get to the point of clinical pharmacists being obsolete, I posit we will both be out of jobs.
 

Hels2007

I bite
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jun 30, 2007
988
24
251
Status
Pharmacist
I just met a gal this weekend, who graduated last year. She interned with Walgreens and she got a job - but while she was promised 64 hour load, she is in fact a per-diem and told me she only got one shift total in the entire month of April. How is that for $95K a year...
 

BenJammin

No Apologies
7+ Year Member
Jun 29, 2011
2,441
1,295
181
Where my ex's live
Status
Pharmacist
PAs and NPs are already getting more pcol training than their medicine counterparts. Clinical pharmacists will still exist in 10 to 15 years but at a much lower salary. $50-60k a year is inevitable when you look at what they do (hell, what I used to do for what that's worth)
 

Rainee

7+ Year Member
Mar 31, 2010
1,336
931
181
Status
PAs and NPs are already getting more pcol training than their medicine counterparts. Clinical pharmacists will still exist in 10 to 15 years but at a much lower salary. $50-60k a year is inevitable when you look at what they do (hell, what I used to do for what that's worth)
The one thing that a physician or clinician in my opinion- should do- is learn surgery. Surgery cannot be automated and PA/NP are not going to do surgery any time soon. It's the clinical paperwork and diagnosing, and dispensing that will be automated and given to mid level providers. Surgery cannot be outsourced, it cannot be automated, and it will not be given to mid level providers on the same level as clinical paperwork/diagnosing. That is the one big benefit to the MD route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Prepharm1214

mentos

7+ Year Member
Nov 22, 2009
1,232
1,444
181
Status
The one thing that a physician or clinician in my opinion- should do- is learn surgery. Surgery cannot be automated and PA/NP are not going to do surgery any time soon. It's the clinical paperwork and diagnosing, and dispensing that will be automated and given to mid level providers. Surgery cannot be outsourced, it cannot be automated, and it will not be given to mid level providers on the same level as clinical paperwork/diagnosing. That is the one big benefit to the MD route.
Automated surgery has been around for years.


That was 8 years ago. Think about how outdated a phone from 2011 would be in 2019, now imagine how much better these things are now and in the future.
 

Singuy

5+ Year Member
Jul 1, 2013
52
26
111
Status
From Central FL. My per diem coworker got canned from her full time job. She is now looking and told us retail are offering between $40-45/hr. Came here to see if there are any other examples.

This profession was destined to be at its current state. In fact I modeled my entire life after graduation in 2007 in anticipation of saturation and automation. What did we expect when you can get a degree attending online classes and become certified after a 4hr(or 2hr for most people) board exam? Married an OD and as someone who takes care of her HR problems, we are having an extremely hard time hiring ODs due to FL law being extremely tough. This results us paying ODs 600-700 dollars/day to fill in. Been looking for a quality OD to be my wife's partner with a 7 on 7 off day time schedule paying out 115k/year with only a 30hr work week and have no biters while RPHs are struggling hitting 6 figures.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: olabrador23

MatCauthon

10+ Year Member
Sep 15, 2008
636
421
281
Status
PAs and NPs are already getting more pcol training than their medicine counterparts. Clinical pharmacists will still exist in 10 to 15 years but at a much lower salary. $50-60k a year is inevitable when you look at what they do (hell, what I used to do for what that's worth)
not that low. techs in the hospital system are making 25 to 30 per hour in many places, rphs won't go that low. artificial intelligence improvements will help reduce the need for some clinical pharmacists. watson has been integrated into micromedex, but that is just the beginning and we should expect much more sophisticated examples in the future.
that said, drugs are complicated and there will always be a need for some drug experts on staff.

Hospital pharmacists may get reduced but retail will take it the worst
 
May 5, 2019
50
25
21
Status
Non-Student
Automated surgery has been around for years.


That was 8 years ago. Think about how outdated a phone from 2011 would be in 2019, now imagine how much better these things are now and in the future.
wow!!!!

From Central FL. My per diem coworker got canned from her full time job. She is now looking and told us retail are offering between $40-45/hr. Came here to see if there are any other examples.

This profession was destined to be at its current state. In fact I modeled my entire life after graduation in 2007 in anticipation of saturation and automation. What did we expect when you can get a degree attending online classes and become certified after a 4hr(or 2hr for most people) board exam? Married an OD and as someone who takes care of her HR problems, we are having an extremely hard time hiring ODs due to FL law being extremely tough. This results us paying ODs 600-700 dollars/day to fill in. Been looking for a quality OD to be my wife's partner with a 7 on 7 off day time schedule paying out 115k/year with only a 30hr work week and have no biters while RPHs are struggling hitting 6 figures.
PAs and NPs are already getting more pcol training than their medicine counterparts. Clinical pharmacists will still exist in 10 to 15 years but at a much lower salary. $50-60k a year is inevitable when you look at what they do (hell, what I used to do for what that's worth)

I just did some rough estimate/math for fun here...

*Pharmacist:

40K / (52 wk/yr x 40hr/wk) = ~$20/hr
50K / (52wk/yr x 40hr/wk) = ~$24/hr
60K / (52wk/yr x 40hr/wk) = ~$28/hr

So 40-50-60K per year is roughly equal to ~$20-25-30/hr. If working only 30hr/wk at that range, that is about 30-40-45K per year. All that with huge student debts. (Tell that to people with or without a HS diploma. My neighbor who is a plumber makes easily TWICE that amount. No kidding).

*school:

100 students/year x $30K to 40K tuition/student x 4 classes/school = $12,000,000 to 16,000,000 per year per school from tuition money alone.

150 schools x $12-16M/yr = $1.8-2.4 BILLION per year

Looking at those numbers, it has become clear to me that we should tell students (HS and college) and children (grade school) to learn HOW TO OPEN PHARMACY SCHOOLS, not to become pharmacists!

In fact, unemployed or underemployed pharmacists (or working pharmacists) should also consider opening pharmacy schools instead of looking for (or working) pharmacist jobs. No kidding!
 
Last edited:

Singuy

5+ Year Member
Jul 1, 2013
52
26
111
Status
wow!!!!






I just did a rough estimate/math for fun here...

*Pharmacist:

40K / (52 wk/yr x 40hr/wk) = ~$20/hr
50K / (52wk/yr x 40hr/wk) = ~$24/hr
60K / (52wk/yr x 40hr/wk) = ~$28/hr

So 40-50-60K per year is roughly equal to ~$20-25-30/hr. If working only 30hr/wk at that range, that is about 30-40-45K per year. (Tell that to people with or even without a HS diploma. My neighbor who is a plumber make easily TWICE that amount. No kidding).

*school:

100 students/year x $30K to 40K tuition/student x 4 classes/school = $12,000,000 to 16,000,000 per year per school from tuition money alone.

150 schools x $12-16M/yr = $1.8-2.4 BILLION per year

Looking at those numbers, it has become clear to me that we should tell students (HS and college) and children (grade school) to learn HOW TO OPEN PHARMACY SCHOOLS, not to become pharmacists!

In fact, even unemployed or underemployed pharmacists (or working pharmacists) should consider opening pharmacy schools instead of looking for (or working) pharmacist jobs. No kidding!

I believe your math can be applied to any health professional schools or any profession for that matter. Education is a very lucrative business, just capital intensive.
 

SoylentGreen

10+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2006
269
66
271
Status
Pharmacist
Quit comparing yourselves to school teachers and nurses. Start comparing yourself to the good jobs of the real world. Boeing, Apple, Wall Street, and big 4 accounting all require better grades and a masters. If you don't make the cut your earning like 75k a year working 55 hours a week the rest of your life. Not to mention moving across the country to land one of these jobs. What you don't hear about is a huge variance in pharmacists pay. Should they pay you based on grades through school? Good students start out earning 150k and bad students start at 55k? Not to mention force you to move across the country for those high salaries?
Probably other allied health fields like optometry, podiatry, and audiology would be better comparisons because they also require four years of school on top of similar prereqs. They generally make upper five figures to lower six figures. People are happily doing 4 years of audiology school to make something like $80k/year.
 
May 5, 2019
50
25
21
Status
Non-Student
I believe your math can be applied to any health professional schools or any profession for that matter. Education is a very lucrative business, just capital intensive.
my math is just for fun, obviously.

All kidding asides, ROI-wise, my rough estimate is seriously telling us that we should become plumbers, car mechanics, barbers, etc. (if we do not have the capitals to open schools) and not pharmacists!
 

Twentytwelve2

7+ Year Member
Oct 20, 2011
502
83
171
Status
Pharmacist
The truth is any job can be automated except for customer service and empathy. I highly doubt regulations will allow for automation to take place. The purpose of licenses is to protect the public. If a machine makes an error, then who is liable?
 
Jan 15, 2015
242
232
81
Automated surgery has been around for years.


That was 8 years ago. Think about how outdated a phone from 2011 would be in 2019, now imagine how much better these things are now and in the future.
Robotic surgery does not mean automated surgery..... robotic surgery just allows for minimal invasion of the patient by the surgeon. Automated surgery will not be a thing in our lifetime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BC_89

Hels2007

I bite
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Jun 30, 2007
988
24
251
Status
Pharmacist
People are happily doing 4 years of audiology school to make something like $80k/year.
There is less liability/risk with something like audiology. If I have to sign off that I am legally responsible for everything that happens in the pharmacy (including mistakes and negligence by other people) and many things that happen once drugs leave the pharmacy, I damn better be compensated for it. Especially in today's climate where everyone is apparently responsible for the prescription drug abuse except the people actually getting high.
 

rxkrafted

5+ Year Member
Apr 9, 2014
163
131
131
Status
Pharmacist
Automated surgery has been around for years.


That was 8 years ago. Think about how outdated a phone from 2011 would be in 2019, now imagine how much better these things are now and in the future.
yeah but they have to be operated by a skilled surgeon
 
May 5, 2019
50
25
21
Status
Non-Student
There is less liability/risk with something like audiology. If I have to sign off that I am legally responsible for everything that happens in the pharmacy (including mistakes and negligence by other people) and many things that happen once drugs leave the pharmacy, I damn better be compensated for it. Especially in today's climate where everyone is apparently responsible for the prescription drug abuse except the people actually getting high.
agreed...

unfortunately, it is always about about basic demand and supply. If you do not want to do it, there are 15K new graduates every year who are ready to do what you do or more for way less!
 

rxdawg21

5+ Year Member
Jan 19, 2013
358
217
131
Status
Pharmacist
The way around this is mid-levels. There has been dramatic increases in NPs and PAs. Also, residency spots have been increasing despite popular belief. All of healthcare is saturated.
Tell that to my er doc friend that was wine and dined at his interview in a desirable location. Several k spent on food and drinks over 2 days
 

Lnsean

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
May 26, 2009
2,269
1,419
281
Status
Medical Student
Tell that to my er doc friend that was wine and dined at his interview in a desirable location. Several k spent on food and drinks over 2 days
He's probably well published and accomplished. Academic institutions do this all the time to get top talent. This will always be true for any profession. One of my relatives works in infosec and one company flew him first/bus class from east coast to cali, paid for his meals + hotels and a top notch intro dinner which was the interview and everything...the whole trip was a couple grand as well.
 
Last edited:

Sine Cura

10 seconds or less
7+ Year Member
Feb 5, 2010
1,751
1,271
181
Status
Pharmacist
We could talk about clinical guidelines or emerging pill mill trends.
 

wagrxm2000

Think before responding to this.
2+ Year Member
Sep 17, 2014
3,037
1,689
81
I'll just post this. Not all of us want to read the same complaining threads created daily, congesting the main forum. The truth isn't being hidden. If people want to read about the job market, they know where to go.

Purpose: The purpose of this forum is to discuss topics related to the job market involving pharmacy school expansions / competitiveness, wages, field saturation, job offering outlook(s) in specific regions, and hours offered as a new graduate or a seasoned pharmacist. This will allow organized discussions of the market as it currently is without causing clutter and over-masking the purpose of our other forums (ie pharmacy school discussions, pharmacy class, residency, etc).
 

BMBiology

temporarily banned~!
15+ Year Member
Feb 26, 2003
7,345
2,570
381
I'll just post this. Not all of us want to read the same complaining threads created daily, congesting the main forum. The truth isn't being hidden. If people want to read about the job market, they know where to go.

Purpose: The purpose of this forum is to discuss topics related to the job market involving pharmacy school expansions / competitiveness, wages, field saturation, job offering outlook(s) in specific regions, and hours offered as a new graduate or a seasoned pharmacist. This will allow organized discussions of the market as it currently is without causing clutter and over-masking the purpose of our other forums (ie pharmacy school discussions, pharmacy class, residency, etc).
Solution: don’t click on the thread. Let its members decide what is important. This forum is slowly dying anyways.
 

mentos

7+ Year Member
Nov 22, 2009
1,232
1,444
181
Status
who is the moderator? Ask them to move back.
The student BC_89 seems to be the mod that moves them all here.

I'll just post this. Not all of us want to read the same complaining threads created daily, congesting the main forum.
Yeah who cares what the nation's biggest employer of pharmacists pays? I'd rather read much more relevant topics such as:

Belts vs suspenders

Crypto

Should I share my ice cream (I mean notes)?
 
Apr 10, 2018
185
56
31
Status
Non-Student
Let's check out the non profesional school jobs that pay 6 figures in America.
Engineer-5 years of undergrad and internships. Work while doing a part time mba and mse over the next 8 years.=$110k salary in a big city.
Accounting- 6 years for cpa & ms finance with internships. Work 60 hours a week at a big 4 for 8 years.=$110k salary in a big city.
Now, which path looks easier?
Pharmacy- 2 years undergrad-4 years professional school-move to a small city.
 
May 28, 2018
482
381
41
Let's check out the non profesional school jobs that pay 6 figures in America.
Engineer-5 years of undergrad and internships. Work while doing a part time mba and mse over the next 8 years.=$110k salary in a big city.
Accounting- 6 years for cpa & ms finance with internships. Work 60 hours a week at a big 4 for 8 years.=$110k salary in a big city.
Now, which path looks easier?
Pharmacy- 2 years undergrad-4 years professional school-move to a small city.
Where are you citing your salary numbers from?