A Lighthouse, A Man, A City...A BioShock WW Game

[Lupin21]

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I'm still talking, but Cray is doing very little to fix my concerns about her potentially being a double killer the night prior to her silencing.

She had a cig as well, yes?

 

[supershorty]

Okay, this might be a super tinfoil, but I think the D4 write up has 2 affiliation hints within it about Cray and katashark.

I've been going back to the D4 write up for a while now because there were parts of it that were getting my attention but I couldn't quite figure out why. And I couldn't figure out today why Trilt, who I'm village leaning, was defending samac so much - who I wasn't village reading. And she'd said that there was a mechanical clear, and I kept thinking about that one write up because it was weird to me that katashark wasn't more clearly indicated. And then I realized she might be and I'm just dumb. My comments are in the bolded and italicized.

Being on Frank Fontaine's payroll has its perks, and one of those is a hefty supply of ADAM. I'm hopped up on so many plasmids, sometimes I can barely see straight. My favorite these days is Winter Blast. Watching Andrew Ryan's pitiful acolytes freeze in place never fails to make me laugh. Could smash them to bits in that state, if I wanted.

The cigarettes were so cheap, you know? Hard to resist the purchase, just a few bucks. He laughed, thinking about the icy power that had flowed through his veins. But the laugh started up another coughing fit. His body cramped up and convulsed, and then he collapsed back onto the bed. Whew. It had been worth it, but he needed to remember not to laugh. This is talking about alley. We know alley smoked a cigarette, and alley flipped wolf, wolves are working for Fontaine.

When he felt well enough, he ventured out of his room. The noise level in Athena's Glory was too much for his head though. He decided to take a stroll towards the abandoned Farmer's Market. Seems he hadn't been the only one with that idea. He heard someone else coughing some distance behind him. Well, the cigs had been so tempting after all. Here's the first mention of Cray. He thought to chuckle but then caught himself in time.

He strolled around the abandoned market for a couple hours, hearing a cough now and again from a short distance away. He thought about going to chat with the other smoker, but just as he was making his way over, he heard the entry door to the market open and a cacophony of voices hit his ears like a sledgehammer. He gripped his head. This is what had been bothering me and I couldn't figure out why. But how would alley be chatting with Cray? They weren't in the same group. They couldn't be PM partners.
UNLESS THEY HAVE WOLF CHAT.

"There they are," someone from the group said, "Grab 'em, one of them is definitely the guy we're looking for."

Then at this point, I started being like "where the heck is katashark"

Both smokers started coughing again as they were forcibly removed from the area by the crowd. On the way back to Athena's Glory, a Big Daddy rounded a corner with his Little Sister riding on his back. He went on alert at the sight of the crowd. The leaders looked at each other, thinking the same thought. Throw the traitors to the big guy, with any luck all three would take each other out.

There's katashark
Two traitors. Two wolves.
They shoved the two coughing figures into the path of the lumbering protector, and they couldn't keep themselves from jostling him. The hall was filled with red light and then the gunfire started. The rest of the crowd quickly left the area, not wanting to get caught in the crossfire.

Hours later, one brave soul returned to assess the damage. A single body, or what was left of it, lay prone on the cold, hard ground.

Still not sure what I make of this last part.

That combined with AM's suspicions:

I'm still bothered by Cray, but don't know if I'm ready to go there tonight.

What about Cray is bothering you the most?

I was going back and forth between her vs MsP based on VCA and then ISOing them both, but my main hang up with Cray was the hard push to yeet the neutral.

She's always anti-3p regardless of affiliation.

I'm not very comfortable with some of the interactions she's had with wolves. Particularly the day of alley's yeet still leaves me perplexed.

My previous ISO: A Lighthouse, A Man, A City...A BioShock WW Game
where I came out of it leaning village, but... I'm not so confident in that right now.

 

[Trilt]

She had a cig as well, yes?

Yes, it's part of why I've been lightly moving her down my list. Seems crazy for the wolves to use two cigs in the same night.

But she's also giving me basically nothing verifiable in PM.

 

[Lupin21]

Yes, it's part of why I've been lightly moving her down my list. Seems crazy for the wolves to use two cigs in the same night.

going for all the kills maybe! haha

 

[Lupin21]

was there a two shutter night?

 

[Trilt]

was there a two shutter night?

Nope.

 

[Lupin21]

shorty, did you say you had a shutter night as well?

 

[supershorty]

shorty, did you say you had a shutter night as well?

I didn't have a shutter night. I was blocked N1, gif restricted N2, Lawpy protected me with a turret N3, and other than that, I've found money 3 times (N2, N4, and last night). I didn't get any notification N5 when Lawpy tried to protect me and got shanked.

 

[Crayola227]

I told Trilt already, I am not the camera person.

 

[Lupin21]

I told Trilt already, I am not the camera person.

Well, the problem is now no one wants to claim it since we've deemed it wolfy. lol

 

[supershorty]

Here are Cray's interactions with flipped wolves:

Spoiler: Day 1/Day 2 interactions

You should really be salt voting AM for having pockets so deep they’re criminal.🤣

Yeet AM

I don't actually think AM did much to pocket that game. At some point, is someone trying to put you in their pocket, or do you just choose to live in their butt?

You can say that, but I think Genny still has the carbon copies from the rent checks she was writing.

I want to note here that the pocketing discussion was one of the things that I mentioned in my ISO of her - she kind of changed her stance on it halfway through in terms of what she was saying AM actually did in the last game.

Cray also pushed Lupin on the "April is town" comment for a bunch of posts. Here's just one of those.

First I wanted to know why you thought she was town to begin with, and I asked. Then you brought up the notion a wolf was hiding in the vote, and then I asked if what that meant for April. Not sure I assumed anything.

AM is seemingly questioning that by your logic, shouldn't we consider April on that vote as well?

Not sure why so much traction on this point, but I think it doesn't read well for you, AM, or April.

AM and April have flipped village, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lupin did too. Especially going back through D1 and seeing how much Zenge wouldn't let go of that point too.

I agree we need to see tighter village play from Zenge. Not willing to move off Please though.

This could be NAI, or it could be a soft telling him to get his act together.

These alley posts might be slightly out of chronological order with the Zenge posts on this day because I originally was going to separate by individual flipped wolves, but then realized I'd go through the same parts of the thread multiple times doing that. But they are from D1.

*****
That cell bio exam I took earlier did not go well, so I had to spend some time moping about it. That's what I get for procrastinating extremely hard on it.
*****

Anyways, I'm caught up through page 6 so far, and I wanted to post some quotes and thoughts from my spreadsheet.

General thoughts:

Z went hardcore on pressuring MsP. I get it though, there were a LOT of us that were salty about how that game ended, and MsP playing anti-village contributed to that village loss. So I get why that left a sour taste in his mouth, and I agree with Anna about why several players are still salty about it, even though MsP's misyeet did help Anna as a wolf. Regardless, Z's pressure vote worked and it appears that MsP is playing more pro-village (so far at least)? I am not a fan of how much he defended this move though, so it pinged my wolfdar slightly.

I've never played with Lupin before, but I thought it was peculiar (as others have pointed out) why April posting first meant that she is instantly a villager. I think its NAI. I do agree that jumping on the AM yeet wagon would be a good way for a wolf to hide out, except it seems like a LOT of people were salty about AM from last game. Could be WIFOM if we read too much into that, especially since salt votes rarely stay.

I'm a tiny bit mad at shorty for apparently sharing a brain with me, because 90% of my thoughts regarding the past 6 pages were already discussed in her posts. To avoid being echo-y, I will just say that her reasoning is solid and I'm mad I had to delete most of the quotes I pulled.

Hey Mayo, is this a quote from the bioshock game or just a weird statement?

and

This exchange seemed wolfy too. I thought Alissa's quick vote switch doesn't make much sense (why vote if your "waiting" didn't even last a minute), and then she voted for LIS even though I can't recall a post from them so far.

Current Reads:

Lawpy	Lean village	questioning and joking around, he seems very chill (but I haven't seen him wolf yet hmm)
Alissa	Wolfy	Switched vote off of AM very quickly, why even vote for her in the first place? Very hedgy and defensive of her vote
Z	lean wolf	Not a fan of the switch to MsP but I get the logic behind it. Got defensive though, and was very adamant about the nature of his pressure vote.
pleasy	lean village	tone seems genuine, but her overexplanation pings wolfy to me
AM	lean wolf	Overly defensive, misremembering, not questioning as much as usual
Shorty	lean village	I find myself agreeing a lot with her reads, she is also contributing to wolf-hunting and has a large thread presence that appears pro-village
Cray	lean village	lots and lots of posts, has not been shy about sharing her thoughts substantially, which is typical of her as a villager.

In a reads post right after this, alley said Cray "definitely seems like village!Cray"

That's it for D1 interactions between them.

Zenge is continuing to not make me feel any better about him. He went from overly formal and friendly to very reactive and aggro when slightly pushed and I don't know where that's coming from. That isn't village!Zenge.

AM is moving into my neutrals, I am no longer getting the same overly-aggro and distorting vibes I did last game. Starting to think she is probably village.

Still not a fan of Kata's unexplained vote on me. I don't care if you vote for me, that's cool. But with no explanation, especially when asked twice and I know she was here? Come on, that's straight up anti-village.

I think you make great points about Zenge. Agree that he seems a bit different this game. Trying to reconcile that with changes in tone from other noobs like yourself, Shorty, Visc, Please, and mkg, all who seem a little different to me. Trying to work out wolfy vs noob maturation.

Although I'm not seeing what gameplay from AM recently (I don't see much in the last however many hours) is making you move her village. I have AM in neutrals. My point isn't that I sus her beyond baseline amounts of sus, this for me isn't about "why don't you see her wolfiness" but more that I'm wondering the sincerity of your read on her, not its accuracy.

Now it's D2 and Zenge's been seered. I also had posted my ISO of him shortly before this.

On D2, alley said this in her read of Cray:

everything I've seen suggests she is village!cray. Usually as a wolf she is much less active and is less paranoid/suspicious.

Which was interesting to me because as far as I know, alley has only seen Cray wolf once. So looking back at it, this makes me wonder if she was told to say that.

And here's the start of something that I've noticed throughout this game that has made me feel all sorts of weird, and it's not limited to Cray doing it - Zenge is the one doing it below:

Nothing Trilt has done is outside her wolf meta or puts her beyond being wolf, despite her otherwise village appearance. The fight with Sunshine could be seen as a vet wolf picking on a reactive villager to create distraction, and then say gosh I'm a wolf why would I draw so much attention to myself. WIFOM for days.

Shorty's tone feels distinctly different to me this game.

Cray can you elaborate on this? It’s not the first time you’ve brought it up, and I really don’t see what you’re saying?

Shorty is by far my strongest village read, and she’s sounding pretty much exactly like she’s sounded the last three games.

I don't know, it's hard for me to pin down. Her points seem less well formed, I guess. She seems less confident.

I know that she's given an explanation for that, but it's still different, and it's a difference she's even owned so I'm not going crazy here. I'm just not certain the change is just what she says it is and isn't wolfy.

I am actually leaning her and Midwife village, but I still have reservations and this is one of them.

One of the things that I've noticed repeatedly in this game so far is that all of the flipped wolves have village read me - even Cray. Cray NEVER strongly village reads me, in any game, even though I've played like this and been village in every single game I've played with her. Now, Zenge's comment here might not be the best example, solely because I know he overheard me make a comment IRL about how I couldn't ask Cray what she meant because I was in the middle of ISOing AM, and I didn't want to lose all my quotes by replying to her. But it's an example of something that I've noticed nonetheless. And here's the thing - I know that my way of playing can look like either powervillaging or powerwolfing, especially because my initial reads on people are often garbage. Which is why it weirds me out a little that Cray, of all people, seems to have me at the end of her "people I want to see flip" list currently - because it's out of character for her.

Cray wasn't there for yeet close on D2 so her vote never changed to Zenge. She really didn't interact with Cyndia very much at all, so I haven't pulled any of Cyndia's quotes from D1/D2.

I'm going to look at D3 to see what Cray's interactions with alley were that day next.

 

[Lupin21]

BTW, mayo, do you know off hand what type of character uses knives in BioShock? I tried to look but it's nothing specific, so not sure it will help or not but ya never know.

 

[jaboo]

I keep looking at the vote trackers and Chaos is still standing out to me.

vote Chaos

 

[jaboo]

BTW, mayo, do you know off hand what type of character uses knives in BioShock? I tried to look but it's nothing specific, so not sure it will help or not but ya never know.

I think one of the splicers might, but don’t quote me on that

 

[Trilt]

I think one of the splicers might, but don’t quote me on that

Spider splicers have very stabby hooks, but honestly I can't think of any knives. You don't even get a knife in the game, you start with a wrench lol.

@holdthemayo?

 

[jaboo]

If I survive until Friday night, I promise to be a better player. I have a final paper and 2 exams in the next 2 days.

 

[Crayola227]

The Little Sisters stab with needles in the game. Closest thing to knife I know of but I'm no Bioshock expert.

 

[holdthemayo]

Spider splicers have very stabby hooks, but honestly I can't think of any knives. You don't even get a knife in the game, you start with a wrench lol.

@holdthemayo?

Yeah, I don't remember anyone with knives.

I don't know if the knives are just mod flavor or maybe they are spider splicers.

 

[supershorty]

Here's D3 interactions, which I think is what AM was referring to because Cray was silenced on D4 (alley's yeet day), so there wouldn't be interactions there to look at...

Spoiler

Okay off work early today, yay! Got some time before an appointment later today, so starting a reread.

Also - I forgot Jaboo was the one who was arguing Zenge about lurking at close D1. That would have been way too early for a bus and looking back the arguing does feel genuine, so I've moved Jaboo (and barks by affiliation) to my village pile.

And let me clarify that as I'm rereading I'm making a village/wolf pile based off the assumption there is only one pack to hunt. Jaboo/barks are definitely still a possibility for a 3p or second pack if this is a faction game. But for right now, I'm going to just focus on wolfhunting Zenge's minions.

Why can't they or just Barks be part of the regular pack?

I'm basing that judgement off of jaboo/zenge interactions from right after D1 ended, where jaboo was aggressively calling zenge out for lurking at close. Unless jaboo is suuuuuper ballsy, but this is my first time playing with them, so I'm going to just go with the most likely interpretation.

Moving Barks village doesn't make any sense to me.

Jaboo claimed barks as a rez. So I'm temporarily lumping them together until I get more content from barks to gauge off of.

Reads

1. @Animal Midwife She seems village overall, but she has done a few things I question, seems more muted, and I'm awful at looking at pack compatibility but I think she is compatible with some players.
4. @Dinashadow Unless she's the deepest deep wolf ever, I think she's the village seer. Her posts read very village. If this is multiball it complicates this read. I don't see how she could live to end game, so I think she would need to be yeeted before end game if she lives that long, prime conversion target as well.
5. @pawprintsandponytails Really needs to step it up or will have to lean wolfy.
6. @Trilt Lean village, good insights. Is not to be totally trusted. Possible pocketing or packmating with LIS.
7. @holdthemayo Lean wolfy by post and vote behavior.
9.@vetschoolsletmeinplease I need to review a whole bunch to understand what happened and how to read Please as a result.
11. @supershorty Lean village based on posts, not because of mechanics. Tone has been different.
12. @Lawpy I'm so far buying what's been said about his meta. He has a village style that looks awful though.
13. @Barkley13 I don't trust rezzes, ever. Sorry. Egg to crack later.
14. @SportPonies Lean wolfy based on posts.
15. @genny Lean village-ish, but she needs to do more to prove it.
16. @mkg323 Very sus, but will need to give a day to come on and defend.
17. @Cyndia Need to see more.
19. @Ms Procrastinator I want to read increased participation as village, but could easily go the other way, especially with MsP. I have concerns that she has informed minority insight.
20.@Viscernable Wolf suspect, voting looks awful if I was following right. Good flip for data.
21. @alleycat03 Alley is very hard for me to follow when she is village. Need to look more closely at her voting behavior. As bad as a few of these players look from a village standpoint, still concerned about misyeet bait.
22. @jaboo Prime conversion target if village, egg to crack.
23. @katashark Wolfy based on participation.
24. @Chaostrodon[/USER
] His posts look like wolf-hunting and insightful. However, I'm not sold on the derpclears.
25. [USER=371028]@LetItSnow I think he's much closer to his village than wolf meta, but he cannot be underestimated. There were some spots where he seemed wolfy in mechanics talk/role fishing on thread perhaps.
26. @Lupin21 Not seeing enough villageyness to put her out of wolf into neutrals.

This is based on post analysis, and not really taking VCA or packmate compatibility into account, because that's the next level analysis that makes it 4D chess and I am barely keeping up reading everything and posting. Maybe as the herd thins it will be easier to see how each person has voted and apply VCA and use interactions.p

I'd love it if people wanted to argue my reads and explain why I should change my views based on things I'm probably not taking into account.

This reads list, when she first posted it, gave me village vibes. Now looking back on it, it's interesting that the reads that are hedgiest, other than Barks and jaboo, are the two flipped wolves.

I’ve seen chaos post but I’ve had a hard time interpreting reads on him, so I’ve made no notes on him in either direction.

To be perfectly honest, I’m struggling to keep up with the amount of posting in this game, so I haven’t done a linear read and have mainly been hopping around trying to follow recent discussions by tracking quotes backwards. So I’ve definitely missed some pages, and I can’t remember seeing any in depth discussion of reads on him. I did see that he’s new to this forum but has played elsewhere with folks here, so I was kind of writing off a lot of it as noobness. So if someone I’ve been strongly village reading so far (shorty) says he’s overdone the noob act as a wolf before, it’s going down as a wolf point.

Here's what I mentioned in my last post about the flipped wolves strongly village reading me and it weirding me out, but this time, it was Cyndia.

I'm trying interpret what you said about alley, and the case you made for her, and the fact that one of your main points (that she wasn't wolf reading Zenge) you rebutted right away, after placing your vote.

What do you think about Visc, AM, LIS, Chaos, mayo and mkg?

Defending alley after Barks was wolf reading her.

Here's Cyndia responding to Lawpy asking how she was reading MKG:

Strong village now.

For a couple of reasons, including the fact zenge claimed to dina he seered mkg, and mkg confirming he was watched on thread.

This thinking really bugs me.

Then there's this interaction between Cyndia/pawprints and Cray's comment:

See I could see you leaving me off the list because of this, but then why have you put someone like Laineylou on your list who literally didn't even post once?

This is a good point though.

Not white knighting - the logic seemed straightforward to me and I was also making some assumptions that I just clarified off thread and it turns out I was wrong on something. So I’ll retract the ‘strong’ portion of my assessment, but I’m still keeping mkg in my village pile for right now.



I’ve personally never seen that done and that didn’t occur to me as a reason for a fake seer. It seems a little silly to me to waste a seer which could yield valuable information on just testing it, and then to make the odd decision of sharing a fake seer with another player... because if mkg flipped wolf at some point, that would immediately put zenge under fire. Idk. I just can’t seem to logically make sense of pulling something like that, but this is turning into a distraction. I’m going to just trust my reasoning and keep my village assessment on mkg for now, and focus elsewhere.

I
I'm 99% certain I've been in a wolf pack that tested an important ability in this way, although not sure it was seering exactly. But your point is taken.

I disagree strongly it's a distraction as many of us are debating mkg's Af. Starting to feel you may be shielding mkg. I won't take a wolf seer's word for nothing.

Where are you focusing, exactly? You may have answered and it's not sticking in my mind. Not trying to make players overwhelmed by the thread repeat themselves of all things.

I'm finding your timing of coming to thread pretty sus. I know IRL stuff, but it's so spot on for after deadline.

This was aimed at Lupin and I'm only including it in here because I thought it was a weird thing to nitpick at given that Cray had missed yeet entirely the day before and was one of only a handful of people not on a seer-confirmed wolf.

That's it before we're into D4 when alley and Cray are both silenced. If Cray is wolfing this game, she's doing so extremely well, especially compared to how she did in the Breadsticks game. Looking through these interactions didn't give me a lot of moments that felt super wolfy, although looking at some of them a second time, I can see how they might be. But that D4 write up really gives me the willies. I hope anyone wants to talk about it and maybe someone will tell me I'm wrong and we can ball up another tinfoil and move on.

 

[Trilt]

I feel less good about this than many lynches that have been incorrect, but:

Yeet Cray

For now, at least. Basically, we (probably) have an unaccounted for three night kill attempt the same night Cray smoked a cig and was silenced. No previous or later instances besides AM's n1 vig shot. A pretty unconvincing conversation in PM so far, (even though I was really willing to be convinced that I haven't been defending a wolf lol).

This requires the wolves to have used two cigarettes at once, and for only one of them to decide to try and like non-strategy posts. That's weird and gives me fairly serious misgivings.

But LIS is adamant on Lupin and Lawps is dead, so I'm migrating on up my people of interest lol. If Cray doesn't flip red I'll prob be back on my Lupin train.

choo choo.

 

[Trilt]

We have precedent in d1 or 2 (can't recall) for a lynch candidate to be killed by big daddy as scapegoat. I don't agree with the interpretation of katamac as a BD and kind of feel the mods wouldn't be quite as explicit as you are reading into that write up, but agree with the potential sketchy Cray conclusion at the end lol.

Also agree that if she's a wolf she's done a really fantastic job.

 

[Trilt]

The Little Sisters stab with needles in the game. Closest thing to knife I know of but I'm no Bioshock expert.

This is something I considered, but it is explicitly called a knife in several write ups, not just stabby. It makes me question the spider splicer though somewhat too. Are they really knives? Hmm.

 

[supershorty]

We have precedent in d1 or 2 (can't recall) for a lynch candidate to be killed by big daddy as scapegoat. I don't agree with the interpretation of katamac as a BD and kind of feel the mods wouldn't be quite as explicit as you are reading into that write up, but agree with the potential sketchy Cray conclusion at the end lol.

Ah, yeah, you're right. D1. I still feel like katamac is the third person mentioned in the write up, though, even if not the BD.
That part is less interesting to me than the smokers going to chat part.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 9: We’re Not Finished! Not Finished! Vote Tally

samac ()
Chaostrodon (2) - LIS, jaboo
Cray (1) - Trilt

3/10

Missing: most

Deadline: 10pm EST on 3/18/21 (~24 hours)

 

[Crayola227]

I feel less good about this than many lynches that have been incorrect, but:

Yeet Cray

For now, at least. Basically, we (probably) have an unaccounted for three night kill attempt the same night Cray smoked a cig and was silenced. No previous or later instances besides AM's n1 vig shot. A pretty unconvincing conversation in PM so far, (even though I was really willing to be convinced that I haven't been defending a wolf lol).

This requires the wolves to have used two cigarettes at once, and for only one of them to decide to try and like non-strategy posts. That's weird and gives me fairly serious misgivings.

But LIS is adamant on Lupin and Lawps is dead, so I'm migrating on up my people of interest lol. If Cray doesn't flip red I'll prob be back on my Lupin train.

choo choo.

Just curious why you're not interested in a Samac, Chaos, or Mayo flip.

 

[Trilt]

Just curious why you're not interested in a Samac, Chaos, or Mayo flip.

It's not that I'm not interested, it's that every day I have to look at my list and decide who I want *most,* and lay it against new information and flips from the night before. Today there was new information that made me reconsider you.

Mayo is neutral per our seer, helpful for game solving, and vibes well in PMs. His role claim seems reasonable. I think we have an original wolf I want to kill before dealing with neutrals.

Chaos would have to be repeatedly actively playing dumb to be a wolf, in addition to going out of his way for the derpclear. I'm not heartbroken by a lynch swinging his way I guess, but I can't really justify it much.

My mechanics thoughts on why Katamac isn't likely wolfy is discussed in several spots on thread. I really don't like that lynch at all.

 

[Chaostrodon]

Jaboo probably only gets one rez, Barks probably came back vanillager

Lawpy claimed a PR.

All three were pretty widely village read so the PR makes the most sense.

I missed the PR claim , That makes sense

 

[Chaostrodon]

vote samac

 

[supershorty]

Cray’s lack of response to my most recent posts and the one response she gave Trilt is very different from what she did when I incorrectly wolf read her in GGoats. That got a very heated response. This is getting ... nothing. It feels really weird.

 

[Crayola227]

Cray’s lack of response to my most recent posts and the one response she gave Trilt is very different from what she did when I incorrectly wolf read her in GGoats. That got a very heated response. This is getting ... nothing. It feels really weird.

Dude, I am occasionally busy. You're gonna get a helluva response the moment I can get away from my hungry and horney bf.

Also I might be extremely hydrated.

 

[Crayola227]

Cray’s lack of response to my most recent posts and the one response she gave Trilt is very different from what she did when I incorrectly wolf read her in GGoats. That got a very heated response. This is getting ... nothing. It feels really weird.

The reality is I just do not see what is damning at all in any of it, except I wasn't here for Zenge's lynch (and I really wasn't here, no likes were given out). I pushed the lynch to alley though. I don't think alley and I as packmates makes any sense with the voting. Or the smoking.

As far as the sus, I have days and days and days worth of sus on all yall yalls, but no one wants to ****ing hear it. I can make a case for each and every one of you. Really resenting how these days if you float any theories village doesn't want to hear about who they think is village or shouldn't get flipped, it turns the mob on you.

From where I'm sitting, I'd like to vote Samac, Chaos, Mayo. And that isn't to say I feel comfortable with the rest of you.

I think wolves might actually be defending Mayo at this point, or whatever multiball faction mates he has is. I'm looking at everyone shielding mayo for that, Trilt, Lupin, Shorty, maybe even LIS.

Jaboo has checked the **** out and holds her votes (really hopes she comes back and plays hard after her IRL) Barks feels like she's hardly playing, Trilt is pumping me hard for very specific info and is lynching me in retaliation for not immediately trusting her, Lupin also feels like she's phoning it in but maybe she's just busy, Chaos is sus as all get out with his voting behavior to say nothing of the supposed derpclear and the interactions between him and LIS are stink as ****, and Samac just "seems village" after the wolfiest BS from Kata plus I don't think the First Aid kit clears her. Shorty, I've been on your case all game for a change in tone, but you are not going to be top of my POE every ****ing game.

Why don't you look at the non-village crap going down right in front of your ****ing eyes.

 

[Crayola227]

**** I'm hydrated and ready to do this, are yall asleep?

 

[sunshinefl]

**** I'm hydrated and ready to do this, are yall asleep?

****************
the dead are still up and watching 👻👻
****************

 

[Crayola227]

#### yeet samac #####

 

[samac]

I feel less good about this than many lynches that have been incorrect, but:

Yeet Cray

For now, at least. Basically, we (probably) have an unaccounted for three night kill attempt the same night Cray smoked a cig and was silenced. No previous or later instances besides AM's n1 vig shot. A pretty unconvincing conversation in PM so far, (even though I was really willing to be convinced that I haven't been defending a wolf lol).

This requires the wolves to have used two cigarettes at once, and for only one of them to decide to try and like non-strategy posts. That's weird and gives me fairly serious misgivings.

But LIS is adamant on Lupin and Lawps is dead, so I'm migrating on up my people of interest lol. If Cray doesn't flip red I'll prob be back on my Lupin train.

choo choo.

I think I’m going to regret this because I’m up as an alternative, but day 4 was a 3 way tie between me cray and alley. Alley put her vote on cray. Through the silenced period cray liked strategy related posts while alley did not, and that info would have been shared in the same PM.

The only logic I have to explain that is cray asked earlier before alley got on and one mod said ok but by the time alley got on they said no more. Which I think cray expressed that the mods voiced their disagreement?

 

[samac]

The reality is I just do not see what is damning at all in any of it, except I wasn't here for Zenge's lynch (and I really wasn't here, no likes were given out). I pushed the lynch to alley though. I don't think alley and I as packmates makes any sense with the voting. Or the smoking.

As far as the sus, I have days and days and days worth of sus on all yall yalls, but no one wants to ****ing hear it. I can make a case for each and every one of you. Really resenting how these days if you float any theories village doesn't want to hear about who they think is village or shouldn't get flipped, it turns the mob on you.

From where I'm sitting, I'd like to vote Samac, Chaos, Mayo. And that isn't to say I feel comfortable with the rest of you.

I think wolves might actually be defending Mayo at this point, or whatever multiball faction mates he has is. I'm looking at everyone shielding mayo for that, Trilt, Lupin, Shorty, maybe even LIS.

Jaboo has checked the **** out and holds her votes (really hopes she comes back and plays hard after her IRL) Barks feels like she's hardly playing, Trilt is pumping me hard for very specific info and is lynching me in retaliation for not immediately trusting her, Lupin also feels like she's phoning it in but maybe she's just busy, Chaos is sus as all get out with his voting behavior to say nothing of the supposed derpclear and the interactions between him and LIS are stink as ****, and Samac just "seems village" after the wolfiest BS from Kata plus I don't think the First Aid kit clears her. Shorty, I've been on your case all game for a change in tone, but you are not going to be top of my POE every ****ing game.

Why don't you look at the non-village crap going down right in front of your ****ing eyes.

You know why I seem village? Because I am. Kata’s play was kind of **** because she had a lot of life stuff going on and couldn’t dedicate the time to keep up. She posted minimally and then just fell off.
It’s really ****ing annoying to be labeled as a wolf based on things I didn’t do, but I guess that’s the life of a sub and something I’ve been trying to not get too annoyed with.

When I went back and looked through kata’s stuff one thing I noticed is she had Cyndia as village. She never gave a reason. Cyndia called her out on it as being suspicious because Cyndia says “everyone always finds me suspicious” or something of the like and asked why she was so village.
Kata never responds to it and goes on to make a few more 1-2 line posts through the rest of her time in the game. Do you really think that was a W/W manufactured interaction? Or just someone who was half ass playing the game?

I do want to ask, despite some folks making a case for me being village I’m your choice out of the 3 you listed. Why me over chaos who has also consistently been in your POE?

 

[samac]

vote samac

Interesting in PMs you call out LIS as not taking the game seriously, I ask about you how seriously you’re taking it, you respond that you skim and then immediately come vote me lol.

 

[Crayola227]

I think I’m going to regret this because I’m up as an alternative, but day 4 was a 3 way tie between me cray and alley. Alley put her vote on cray. Through the silenced period cray liked strategy related posts while alley did not, and that info would have been shared in the same PM.

The only logic I have to explain that is cray asked earlier before alley got on and one mod said ok but by the time alley got on they said no more. Which I think cray expressed that the mods voiced their disagreement?

This makes zero sense. Because at no point did I stop the likes. Kaydubs said in my PM many hours and hundreds of likes later that she wouldn't have said OK but since I already had been doing it, it was fine. This is why I did it, and I wasn't surprised that the next day no one was liking any posts not even non-strategy because of that exchange. I think alley and mkg didn't like any posts because they aren't so obsessed with the like button that they didn't ask the mods if it was OK. And Alley wouldn't have known if the terms of my silencing were the same as hers, so without asking the mods she wouldn't have known, and I'm not surprised she didn't see me liking posts and think that meant she could because she wasn't privy to my conversation.

I can't imagine the mods treating two wolves in the same wolf pack so differently.

It really feels like you guys are having to stretch to make the case I am wolfy. I think these foils about differential wolf pack treatments (money, item availability, mod policies on liking) makes very little sense.

Besides the fact that me being a wolf makes zero sense, there are way more sus people on the board that do make sense as wolves, converts, or a 3P that I suspect have an exclusive wincon. We should start there first rather than chasing foils.

 

[Crayola227]

Interesting in PMs you call out LIS as not taking the game seriously, I ask about you how seriously you’re taking it, you respond that you skim and then immediately come vote me lol.

This really has me thinking about switching to Chaos.

 

[Lupin21]

The reality is I just do not see what is damning at all in any of it, except I wasn't here for Zenge's lynch (and I really wasn't here, no likes were given out). I pushed the lynch to alley though. I don't think alley and I as packmates makes any sense with the voting. Or the smoking.

As far as the sus, I have days and days and days worth of sus on all yall yalls, but no one wants to ****ing hear it. I can make a case for each and every one of you. Really resenting how these days if you float any theories village doesn't want to hear about who they think is village or shouldn't get flipped, it turns the mob on you.

From where I'm sitting, I'd like to vote Samac, Chaos, Mayo. And that isn't to say I feel comfortable with the rest of you.

I think wolves might actually be defending Mayo at this point, or whatever multiball faction mates he has is. I'm looking at everyone shielding mayo for that, Trilt, Lupin, Shorty, maybe even LIS.

Jaboo has checked the **** out and holds her votes (really hopes she comes back and plays hard after her IRL) Barks feels like she's hardly playing, Trilt is pumping me hard for very specific info and is lynching me in retaliation for not immediately trusting her, Lupin also feels like she's phoning it in but maybe she's just busy, Chaos is sus as all get out with his voting behavior to say nothing of the supposed derpclear and the interactions between him and LIS are stink as ****, and Samac just "seems village" after the wolfiest BS from Kata plus I don't think the First Aid kit clears her. Shorty, I've been on your case all game for a change in tone, but you are not going to be top of my POE every ****ing game.

Why don't you look at the non-village crap going down right in front of your ****ing eyes.

And where exactly am I defending mayo? I am defending the people in my group because I am fairly confident in my reads that they are not wolves. You guys are pretty stuck on chaos, samac and/or LIS, but I am saying I don't get wolf vibes at all from any of them either on thread or PM.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 9: We’re Not Finished! Not Finished! Vote Tally

samac (2) - Chaostrodon, Cray
Chaostrodon (2) - LIS, jaboo
Cray (1) - Trilt

5/10

Missing: half

Deadline: 10pm EST on 3/18/21 (~13.75 hours)

 

[Trilt]

I think I’m going to regret this because I’m up as an alternative, but day 4 was a 3 way tie between me cray and alley. Alley put her vote on cray. Through the silenced period cray liked strategy related posts while alley did not, and that info would have been shared in the same PM.

The only logic I have to explain that is cray asked earlier before alley got on and one mod said ok but by the time alley got on they said no more. Which I think cray expressed that the mods voiced their disagreement?

I did literally mention that in my post, lol. That is one very big reason I've been defending Cray over the last couple days; it doesn't really make sense for the wolves to use cigs at the same time, and it doesn't really make sense for one to like things and one to not.

Although other mod showing up and disagreeing before alley came back (remember she was really intermittently posting) is as good of a theory as I've got.

 

[Trilt]

Jaboo has checked the **** out and holds her votes (really hopes she comes back and plays hard after her IRL) Barks feels like she's hardly playing, Trilt is pumping me hard for very specific info and is lynching me in retaliation for not immediately trusting her, Lupin also feels like she's phoning it in but maybe she's just busy, Chaos is sus as all get out with his voting behavior to say nothing of the supposed derpclear and the interactions between him and LIS are stink as ****, and Samac just "seems village" after the wolfiest BS from Kata plus I don't think the First Aid kit clears her. Shorty, I've been on your case all game for a change in tone, but you are not going to be top of my POE every ****ing game.

I do agree that jaboo and barks have way dialed down, in addition to Lupes, but the first two have good game related reasons to not be an original wolf, and the latter has one reading between the lines.

I feel like Chaos gives Flim Flam Man vibes, if you remember him at all. Not a lot to say, but he has had some reasonable thoughts and I feel like that and some early info drops/knowledge gaps is enough to migrate him down the list. He has also lightly defended against at least one mislynch that would have been to wolf favour, so he got kudos from me there.

I don't feel like the LIS-Chaos interactions are w/w at all - is that how you're reading it? What does "stink as ****" mean?

Katamac doesn't "just seem village." She used money in a village way, had money in literal identical amounts to another vanillager (her claim), and has defended and attacked in very similar ways to the way I do as a villager. It's not a hard clear but giving samac a cycle or two after the sketch kata made me feel much better about her.

If Shorty is a wolf she deserves to win and I won't even be mad after the effort she put in lol. I've said this through the game. I don't think she is though.

 

[Trilt]

I'm not "pumping you for specific information." I've actually kept my questioning very open and was very upfront from my first PM that I had a mechanics reason to suspect you and was hoping to get things clarified so I didn't potentially start pushing a village PR with bad timing on thread.

Nothing you've said has had any justification you've given on thread (at least that you pointed out to me), and couldn't be easily a lie. That's not enough to make me change.

 

[Barkley13]

When I went back and looked through kata’s stuff one thing I noticed is she had Cyndia as village. She never gave a reason. Cyndia called her out on it as being suspicious because Cyndia says “everyone always finds me suspicious” or something of the like and asked why she was so village.
Kata never responds to it and goes on to make a few more 1-2 line posts through the rest of her time in the game. Do you really think that was a W/W manufactured interaction? Or just someone who was half ass playing the game?

What? That could definitely be a manufactured interaction and really isn’t a reason to be giving any village points

 

[Barkley13]

If Shorty is a wolf she deserves to win and I won't even be mad after the effort she put in lol. I've said this through the game. I don't think she is though.

I had a moment of being paranoid about shorty being alive still when she’s been village read the whole time and had to talk myself out of by think how there’s been better night kill choices the entire time lol

 

[Trilt]

I'm not "pumping you for specific information." I've actually kept my questioning very open and was very upfront from my first PM that I had a mechanics reason to suspect you and was hoping to get things clarified so I didn't potentially start pushing a village PR with bad timing on thread.

Nothing you've said has had any justification you've given on thread (at least that you pointed out to me), and couldn't be easily a lie. That's not enough to make me change.

Also, like, you have one vote. Said vote that I literally mentioned I was a hesitant on for the same reasons I've been defending you the last couple days. Chill lol.

 

[Trilt]

I had a moment of being paranoid about shorty being alive still when she’s been village read the whole time and had to talk myself out of by think how there’s been better night kill choices the entire time lol

Yeah there's "you seem village" and "you're an outed seer" and the priorities gotta be straight, haha.

 

[Trilt]

As far as the sus, I have days and days and days worth of sus on all yall yalls, but no one wants to ****ing hear it. I can make a case for each and every one of you. Really resenting how these days if you float any theories village doesn't want to hear about who they think is village or shouldn't get flipped, it turns the mob on you.

Also, this is literally not what happened and part of why you're so hard to read is you don't stop and think or read or catch up before just bleaghrhjshjdahding a bunch of crap on thread. A significant portion of your posts are responding to theories or thoughts that are already discussed or figured out.

Everyone could absolutely make a case for or against almost everyone in this game right now. Nobody is saying you're sketchy because of any damn theory you've posted - in fact, several people moved you more village (including me) after your outburst on neutral a couple days ago, because it'd be weird af for a wolf to bother or push that hard.

 

[supershorty]

The reality is I just do not see what is damning at all in any of it, except I wasn't here for Zenge's lynch (and I really wasn't here, no likes were given out). I pushed the lynch to alley though. I don't think alley and I as packmates makes any sense with the voting. Or the smoking.

I'd really love to know anyone's thoughts on that D4 write up.

As far as the sus, I have days and days and days worth of sus on all yall yalls, but no one wants to ****ing hear it. I can make a case for each and every one of you. Really resenting how these days if you float any theories village doesn't want to hear about who they think is village or shouldn't get flipped, it turns the mob on you.

No, you've been fixated on this idea of going after 3Ps, when so far, we don't have evidence of 3Ps killing people. Meanwhile, there's still a wolf out there literally stabbing people in the back to kill them. I don't see the benefit of going after 3Ps that *might* have an exclusive wincon when so far, it doesn't seem like they're the ones cutting down village numbers. And I think because you respond to posts as you're reading, rather than catching up all the way before posting, many of your posts are responding to things that are discussed later on the same page. Which means that sometimes you seem to be bringing older things back up even when they've been clarified later.

From where I'm sitting, I'd like to vote Samac, Chaos, Mayo. And that isn't to say I feel comfortable with the rest of you.

I think wolves might actually be defending Mayo at this point, or whatever multiball faction mates he has is. I'm looking at everyone shielding mayo for that, Trilt, Lupin, Shorty, maybe even LIS.

Curious about this because I looked back at my posts, and back at Lupin's posts, and really don't see anything that I would consider "shielding" mayo, beyond saying that his yeet doesn't seem as high a priority as wolves at the moment. Can you provide some examples?

Jaboo has checked the **** out and holds her votes (really hopes she comes back and plays hard after her IRL) Barks feels like she's hardly playing, Trilt is pumping me hard for very specific info and is lynching me in retaliation for not immediately trusting her, Lupin also feels like she's phoning it in but maybe she's just busy, Chaos is sus as all get out with his voting behavior to say nothing of the supposed derpclear and the interactions between him and LIS are stink as ****, and Samac just "seems village" after the wolfiest BS from Kata plus I don't think the First Aid kit clears her.

I agree that the first aid kit doesn't clear her, but there have been other things that made me rethink katamac.

Shorty, I've been on your case all game for a change in tone, but you are not going to be top of my POE every ****ing game.

This is meaningless because you say something like that every game. First game you played with me (which was also my first non-noob game) - emojis - "shorty's too tentative," and you made a tie at the last second that killed both me and another villager on D1. I came out of the gate much harder in my second game with you (basics) because of that, and then it was "shorty's tone is different, pushing too hard." Then in the 3rd game (GGoats), I tried to find a happy medium because Basics was too stressful for ME to maintain that sort of mini-AM approach, and you thought I sounded different then. Now it's the same thing, but because I'm revising my reads more often. I've been village EVERY TIME. I wasn't reading into you saying my tone was different - I really think that's NAI and you're going to say that in every single game I play with you regardless of either of our affiliations, but not having me near your POE at all struck me as very out of character.