Anesthesiology Residency/Fellowship Survey

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Zeakfury

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In an effort to help my SO decide where they should apply to for anesthesiology residency, I am creating a master list of data on the different residencies from Doximity, Freida, & AAMC.

I would like to add resident/fellows ratings to this data. However, I could not seem to find a good source on how past residents/fellows rated those programs. So I created this survey (based off the ACGME Survey) to collect this data and add it to the master list.

There are 37 questions but I only made 2 of them required (Program and Overall rating). Results are shown at the end.

Survey Link:
a-https://goo.gl/forms/wDpCa9Tt6LHnfERH3
Survey Results Spreadsheet:
a-goo.gl/EAuQWC
Master List of Residency Data:
a-goo.gl/WiQ1AG

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One can be too involved in a loved one’s career. Breathing space is both healthy and necessary. If your SO thinks this is a good idea, they should be posting. Don’t be the over-involved overbearing SO.
 
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Why would anyone with meaningful (i.e. inside) knowledge bother? OP, you're naive (I should probably use a stronger word), and all you'll get is noise.
 
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Since residents don’t rotate amongst programs, it’s really hard to truly quantitatively compare programs. This method (a survey, anonymously) is only marginally worse than Doximity alone.

I think relatively highly of my residency program, and think the core program of my fellowship is fairy overrated - but those are my personal feelings and I don’t have much data to back it up beyond gut and anecdotes.

Just apply, interview and try to get a feel while YOU are there. Then ask staff at your school or recent grads their thoughts, if you need additional info you can consider asking here but a lot of info here is misleading/biased. Also - no one is buying that you are doing this for your “SO” by the way.
 
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Member since today. Thanks for your contributions to our forums, I'll be sure to fill your survey with interesting data.
 
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TBH, this isn't a bad attempt. I've suggested something like this in Official 2018-2019 Anesthesiology Residency Application Thread

The survey results at the end seem meaningless though.

But as others said, your N isn't gonna be high enough to have any good results.

Also the questions you're asking are way too broad, you need to ask more specifically about subspecialty experience (regional, peds, OB, CT, Pain) , CRNA politics, who does the department value, CRNA or the resident? (u might not like the answer to that last one)
 
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Just like a job search in the future for your SO.
1. Location location location.
If s/he has no restriction to go anywhere, where would they want to end up?
2. Stats
Do they have the stats to get there?
3. Life work balance
Work horse program vs academia with support?
4. Future planning
Do they want to do a fellowship?
5. This is more of a comment. We can only comment on what we know and a lot of times we don’t know what we don’t know. So if my residency is the only experience that I have, it’s difficult to compare experiences. I am just a glass half full kind of guy, I will rate my experience as such.
Find a program that will satisfied most of your needs, then jump in full force.

Good luck.
 
Also a lot of your master residency data is wrong.
 
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One can be too involved in a loved one’s career. Breathing space is both healthy and necessary. If your SO thinks this is a good idea, they should be posting. Don’t be the over-involved overbearing SO.

They are studying ATM and couldn't be bothered to spend too much time on this but would like to know the data. Also its important to me that they are happy with the residency they choose since we are married and I will be moving with them.
 
Since residents don’t rotate amongst programs, it’s really hard to truly quantitatively compare programs. This method (a survey, anonymously) is only marginally worse than Doximity alone.

I think relatively highly of my residency program, and think the core program of my fellowship is fairy overrated - but those are my personal feelings and I don’t have much data to back it up beyond gut and anecdotes.

Just apply, interview and try to get a feel while YOU are there. Then ask staff at your school or recent grads their thoughts, if you need additional info you can consider asking here but a lot of info here is misleading/biased. Also - no one is buying that you are doing this for your “SO” by the way.

Well that is the type of data I am expecting, user ratings are subjective but give an extra piece of data to have a informed decision on something that will take up 4+ years of both our lives. I agree that there are other methods to find this information but all of them requires significant amounts of time we both just don't have.

I work as an engineer 9-5 and they are studying and getting their application ready. We just don't have the time right now to do a foot survey or cold call people to get their opinions.
 
TBH, this isn't a bad attempt. I've suggested something like this in Official 2018-2019 Anesthesiology Residency Application Thread

The survey results at the end seem meaningless though.

But as others said, your N isn't gonna be high enough to have any good results.

Also the questions you're asking are way too broad, you need to ask more specifically about subspecialty experience (regional, peds, OB, CT, Pain) , CRNA politics, who does the department value, CRNA or the resident? (u might not like the answer to that last one)

Yeah I was waiting to get more data to determine what to do with the results. Created a linked (I believe) spreadsheet of the results. goo.gl/EAuQWC

I totally agree that I won't have a large enough N to do much with the results. Although any information will be better than the absolutely none I have now.

If you have suggestions for questions I'll be glad to add them, as I have no idea what to ask not being in the medical field myself (main reason I got all the questions from the random survey I found online). Thanks!
 
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Why would anyone with meaningful (i.e. inside) knowledge bother? OP, you're naive (I should probably use a stronger word), and all you'll get is noise.

Thanks for your feedback I appreciate it.
 
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Just like a job search in the future for your SO.
1. Location location location.
If s/he has no restriction to go anywhere, where would they want to end up?
2. Stats
Do they have the stats to get there?
3. Life work balance
Work horse program vs academia with support?
4. Future planning
Do they want to do a fellowship?
5. This is more of a comment. We can only comment on what we know and a lot of times we don’t know what we don’t know. So if my residency is the only experience that I have, it’s difficult to compare experiences. I am just a glass half full kind of guy, I will rate my experience as such.
Find a program that will satisfied most of your needs, then jump in full force.

Good luck.

Yeah definitely. I am just trying to help them have an informed decision since the first limiting factor is which programs to send the application to, then which program to go interview for. I would like to know that not only is the program a good program but also that my SO will enjoy it. There are a lot of other factors we have to consider and most of those I have information on. What I don't have information on is the human factor, what did people think of their residency.

Thank you for contributing. I appreciate it.

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Yeah definitely. I am just trying to help them have an informed decision since the first limiting factor is which programs to send the application to, then which program to go interview for. I would like to know that not only is the program a good program but also that my SO will enjoy it. There are a lot of other factors we have to consider and most of those I have information on. What I don't have information on is the human factor, what did people think of their residency.

Thank you for contributing. I appreciate it.

hqdefault.jpg

1. Which program to send application to?
Anywhere they have a chance and would like to go. This process is depending as much on them as anything else. If I tell you somewhere Deep South has a great program, would they go? It’s always much better when you eliminated enough programs then ask the question.
I do applaud you for taking the initiative, but you will not get many entries to your survey.

2. Which program to interview with?
The ones that invite them to go? If I remember correctly, if you get more than 7 interviews, you will match. It’s as simple and as hard as that.

You’re approaching this like an engining problems. Read between the lines, you’ve already got some answers from the most active members in this sub. Come back with a reasonable list, then you “may” generate a little more discussion.

Good Luck.
 
1. Which program to send application to?
Anywhere they have a chance and would like to go. This process is depending as much on them as anything else. If I tell you somewhere Deep South has a great program, would they go? It’s always much better when you eliminated enough programs then ask the question.
I do applaud you for taking the initiative, but you will not get many entries to your survey.

2. Which program to interview with?
The ones that invite them to go? If I remember correctly, if you get more than 7 interviews, you will match. It’s as simple and as hard as that.

You’re approaching this like an engining problems. Read between the lines, you’ve already got some answers from the most active members in this sub. Come back with a reasonable list, then you “may” generate a little more discussion.

Good Luck.

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.
 
I would also say not to put too much weight on whatever it says on Doximity. I remember being barraged with emails to fill out a survey for my residency when doximity tried its best to roll out this feature.

When I finally went on the site and found my residency program it was listing the main “feeder schools” and included two schools my residency had not had anyone from in the past 10 years (and possibly ever) as among the top 5 feeder schools.

So that’s one thing..
 
I would also say not to put too much weight on whatever it says on Doximity. I remember being barraged with emails to fill out a survey for my residency when doximity tried its best to roll out this feature.

When I finally went on the site and found my residency program it was listing the main “feeder schools” and included two schools my residency had not had anyone from in the past 10 years (and possibly ever) as among the top 5 feeder schools.

So that’s one thing..

Maybe they really liked those top three
 
I would also say not to put too much weight on whatever it says on Doximity. I remember being barraged with emails to fill out a survey for my residency when doximity tried its best to roll out this feature.

When I finally went on the site and found my residency program it was listing the main “feeder schools” and included two schools my residency had not had anyone from in the past 10 years (and possibly ever) as among the top 5 feeder schools.

So that’s one thing..

Do you know of a site that would tell me for certain if a program offers all the sub-specialties? As that was one of the main reasons behind the master list, as my SO wants to get into a program that offers all of them to have well rounded training. Also to be able to choose a fellowship later on they want to train with all the specialties.
 
Do you know of a site that would tell me for certain if a program offers all the sub-specialties? As that was one of the main reasons behind the master list, as my SO wants to get into a program that offers all of them to have well rounded training. Also to be able to choose a fellowship later on they want to train with all the specialties.

All programs are required to offer all subspecilaties
 
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They are studying ATM and couldn't be bothered to spend too much time on this but would like to know the data. Also its important to me that they are happy with the residency they choose since we are married and I will be moving with them.

Can’t be bothered? Seriously??


It is a bit weird that you are here and they are not. All medical students study and do their own research about residency programs. Your question about subspecialties makes you sound like a high school student. Your SO would already know this if they spent any time with anesthesiologists.
 
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Can’t be bothered? Seriously??


It is a bit weird that you are here and they are not. All medical students study and do their own research about residency programs. Your question about subspecialties makes you sound like a high school student. Your SO would already know this if they spent any time with anesthesiologists.

Thank you for your feedback.
 
Most of the questions you are asking are what the interview day is intended for. The basic approach is to just apply broadly, see what interviews are received, make decision off these interviews based on geographic interest and reputation and create a properly stratified list of interviews. At the interviews the questions are asked and criteria evaluated and then a rank list is made off of this.

You’ll find that using surveys and websites will yield incomplete and outdated information.
 
Most of the questions you are asking are what the interview day is intended for. The basic approach is to just apply broadly, see what interviews are received, make decision off these interviews based on geographic interest and reputation and create a properly stratified list of interviews. At the interviews the questions are asked and criteria evaluated and then a rank list is made off of this.

You’ll find that using surveys and websites will yield incomplete and outdated information.

This can be said about any industry or job. But they all still have glassdoor and indeed that allow past and present employees to rate the employer. Residency programs don't for some reason which I can not quite wrap my head around. Prospective residences have to essentially pay-to-play this game of discovering which programs are good or bad with very little help from the industry professionals themselves.

Granted even I as an engineer don't put much weight into reviews I see online, but they help me when I go job hunting to see if those same conditions exist in the company I am applying to.

I have seen some suggestions on here that point to this fact like "if you don't see current residences/fellows at the pre-interview dinner, it may be a sign that they overwork the residences". This bothers me and I am not even in this industry. I am thinking this process needs to have a little transparency in it rather that what seems to be a shell game for the prospective residences.
 
The other concern that can come up is many residences have an inherent level of unpredictability. Due to a lot of medicine being at the behest of "medicine as a business" and the short shelf life of many program directors you can have major shifts over a time period as small as year where a residency's past is not always predictive of its future. My residency experienced changed due to some major growth at the hospital and increased all of our hours by around 20%, this wasn't that bad though. A friend of mine had a more dramatic experience at a top 20 program that was part of a rapidly growing "health system". When she entered the hours were a very cush 7-2 with a low actual work on call burden. As her first year ended they had a major shift in the hospitals covered and also some disputes about pay that changed their hours to a still reasonable but far worse 7-6 range with more call coverage required.

Because of issues like this, I am a strong proponent of a thinking with your gut theory when it comes to residencies. I found that most of my research yielded little fruit because I would show up to programs that were top of my list and come away with either a poor impression of resident happiness or a bad feeling about how I would fit there. Also, it was not uncommon for me to ask about a program or "track" that was advertised on their residency site to have a quizzical look given and the response of "that's still on the website?", and yes, it is even still on the website now, years later.

I think what you are doing for your SO is noble, but I would warn you that asking for subjective data that may be extremely out of date may bias both of you towards how you approach programs that are very different now. I would stick with their websites, geography, and general name recognition when it comes to approaching the interview. I also cannot emphasize enough using "happiness" as one of the main criteria for selecting a residency as it will be a place that may represent the hardest years of life for 3-4 years, so it may as well be with people that you can stand going through it with.
 
This can be said about any industry or job. But they all still have glassdoor and indeed that allow past and present employees to rate the employer. Residency programs don't for some reason which I can not quite wrap my head around. Prospective residences have to essentially pay-to-play this game of discovering which programs are good or bad with very little help from the industry professionals themselves.

Granted even I as an engineer don't put much weight into reviews I see online, but they help me when I go job hunting to see if those same conditions exist in the company I am applying to.

I have seen some suggestions on here that point to this fact like "if you don't see current residences/fellows at the pre-interview dinner, it may be a sign that they overwork the residences". This bothers me and I am not even in this industry. I am thinking this process needs to have a little transparency in it rather that what seems to be a shell game for the prospective residences.

R-E-S-I-D-E-N-T-S

Imagine if you went to a school filled with upperclassman who have recently gone through this process, that you had the opportunity to work with and ask these questions on a daily basis to fully trained attendings familiar with program reputations that could even likely put you in touch with someone from a specific program that they know personally if you really felt it necessary, that you had advisors open to steering you in the right direction if you would ask, that having these conversations in person lead to more personal recommendation letters, and that you had an entire 4th year dedicated to interviewing and ensuring you find a program to train at that matches your particular career goals.

Now if that’s not enough which it clearly isn’t for a lot of people on this site, there’s also a search button on here with countless ranking threads and yearly interview trail impressions, scutwork.com, and doximity.

The only info missing on a completely superficial level that may be interesting but is not likely necessary to make a decision is:
1. Food - is there free food? When? Daily breakfast, lunch, snacks, drinks? Subsidized cafeteria? Is the cafeteria edible? Is the cafeteria legitimately good? (some actually are) Is the cafeteria close enough to utilize during breaks? Is the line at the cafeteria passive aggressively slow? Restaurants in the hospital? What is open at night when you are on call? Meal prepping is the way to go but backup options for when you’re feeling lazy would be nice.

2. Is there a resident lounge? Is there a physician lounge? What’s in them? Who has access?

3. Do residents have cars? Is parking absurdly expensive?

4. How is the moonlighting? Is there a system set up to come in early or stay late without having to work on your days off?

5. What is close by? Mountains? Beach? Lake?Airport? Pro/college sports? Golf?

6. Do residents interact socially with other residency programs within the hospital/school?

7. What happens if someone has a kid? Where I did intern year this meant extra weekend calls for everyone. I would’ve much preferred 24 hour call and less weekends but that’s a different subject. Where I am doing residency, people generally want and volunteer for weekday calls so this usually minimally negatively effects the call schedule and means there will be an extra senior resident sticking around in July to spread out the workload.

8. Elective time and how that elective time is spent and supported. Systems in place with other programs or even countries? Paid for by the department? Research courses or months?

9. Any other benefits an interviewee might not think to ask? Cheap or free tickets anywhere? Amazing gym access (subsidized equinox? Close by university gym) or really poor gyms around where residents typically live, etc. Residents somehow manage to fill an intramural basketball or soccer team at the associated university. Department supported social events, bartabs, retreats.
 
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The other concern that can come up is many residences have an inherent level of unpredictability. Due to a lot of medicine being at the behest of "medicine as a business" and the short shelf life of many program directors you can have major shifts over a time period as small as year where a residency's past is not always predictive of its future. My residency experienced changed due to some major growth at the hospital and increased all of our hours by around 20%, this wasn't that bad though. A friend of mine had a more dramatic experience at a top 20 program that was part of a rapidly growing "health system". When she entered the hours were a very cush 7-2 with a low actual work on call burden. As her first year ended they had a major shift in the hospitals covered and also some disputes about pay that changed their hours to a still reasonable but far worse 7-6 range with more call coverage required.

Because of issues like this, I am a strong proponent of a thinking with your gut theory when it comes to residencies. I found that most of my research yielded little fruit because I would show up to programs that were top of my list and come away with either a poor impression of resident happiness or a bad feeling about how I would fit there. Also, it was not uncommon for me to ask about a program or "track" that was advertised on their residency site to have a quizzical look given and the response of "that's still on the website?", and yes, it is even still on the website now, years later.

I think what you are doing for your SO is noble, but I would warn you that asking for subjective data that may be extremely out of date may bias both of you towards how you approach programs that are very different now. I would stick with their websites, geography, and general name recognition when it comes to approaching the interview. I also cannot emphasize enough using "happiness" as one of the main criteria for selecting a residency as it will be a place that may represent the hardest years of life for 3-4 years, so it may as well be with people that you can stand going through it with.

What I find interesting is that residents spent a sizable amount of time and money to travel to these locations to figure out something the community could easily supply for free.

Personally, I take this info as just another piece of the larger puzzle. Much like product reviews online, if the trend is heavily in favor of the negative then it's a pretty good indicator that the product is shady. At the same time, a thoroughly reviewed up-to-date review that is amazingly positive may make me take a second look. I feel like this community is intelligent enough to apply critical thinking to subjective data and that it can really help those in need of that communal touch.

Happiness is actually the whole reason I want this data. All the data I have found lack a community/human touch, the data is purely mechanical. I don't want to my SO to make a decision on where to apply or where to go interview based on this data and the limited view of their Advisers/Peers. A large community based data set would be considerably beneficial.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your experiences and your warnings about this data. I really enjoyed reading it and will continue to think on your words.
 
R-E-S-I-D-E-N-T-S

Imagine if you went to a school filled with upperclassman who have recently gone through this process, that you had the opportunity to work with and ask these questions on a daily basis to fully trained attendings familiar with program reputations that could even likely put you in touch with someone from a specific program that they know personally if you really felt it necessary, that you had advisors open to steering you in the right direction if you would ask, that having these conversations in person lead to more personal recommendation letters, and that you had an entire 4th year dedicated to interviewing and ensuring you find a program to train at that matches your particular career goals.

Now if that’s not enough which it clearly isn’t for a lot of people on this site, there’s also a search button on here with countless ranking threads and yearly interview trail impressions, scutwork, and doximity.

The only info missing on a completely superficial level that may be interesting but is not likely necessary to make a decision is:
1. Food - is there free food? When? Daily breakfast, lunch, snacks, drinks? Subsidized cafeteria? Is the cafeteria edible? Is the cafeteria legitimately good? (some actually are) Is the cafeteria close enough to utilize during breaks? Is the line at the cafeteria passive aggressively slow? Restaurants in the hospital? What is open at night when you are on call? Meal prepping is the way to go but backup options for when you’re feeling lazy would be nice.

2. Is there a resident lounge? Is there a physician lounge? What’s in them? Who has access?

3. Do residents have cars? Is parking absurdly expensive?

4. How is the moonlighting? Is there a system set up to come in early or stay late without having to work on your days off?

5. What is close by? Mountains? Beach? Lake?Airport? Pro/college sports? Golf?

6. Do residents interact socially with other residency programs within the hospital/school?

7. What happens if someone has a kid? Where I did intern year this meant extra weekend calls for everyone. I would’ve much preferred 24 hour call and less weekends but that’s a different subject. Where I am doing residency, people generally want and volunteer for weekday calls so this usually minimally negatively effects the call schedule and means there will be an extra senior resident sticking around in July to spread out the workload.

8. Elective time and how that elective time is spent and supported. Systems in place with other programs or even countries? Paid for by the department? Research courses or months?

9. Any other benefits an interviewee might not think to ask? Cheap or free tickets anywhere? Amazing gym access (subsidized equinox? Close by university gym) or really poor gyms around where residents typically live, etc. Residents somehow manage to fill an intramural basketball or soccer team at the associated university. Department supported social events, bartabs, retreats.

Thank you for pointing out my mistake. It gives me the opportunity to improve, although I will probably fail again as engineers are notoriously bad spellers.

This is the first I have heard of scutwork in my search for this kind of data (guess I wasn't using the correct search terms). So kudos to you. I don't really need this survey after all, although I wish there was more ratings/more recent ratings on scutwork.

Any chance I can get a bandwagon going, to go fill out scutwork for some more data points in anesthesia? I and my SO would really appreciate it.
 
Thank you for pointing out my mistake. It gives me the opportunity to improve, although I will probably fail again as engineers are notoriously bad spellers.

This is the first I have heard of scutwork in my search for this kind of data (guess I wasn't using the correct search terms). So kudos to you. I don't really need this survey after all, although I wish there was more ratings/more recent ratings on scutwork.

Any chance I can get a bandwagon going, to go fill out scutwork for some more data points in anesthesia? I and my SO would really appreciate it.


There are a lot of problems with anonymous online forums. You tend to see polarized views of programs from people with great and awful experiences. Most people are rightfully skeptical that posts are anonymous with a healthy fear of repurcussions. I don’t want to restir rumor mills but anyone who has followed this forum with any consistency has seen plenty of instances of embarrassing threads where residents try to air out their grievances, some of which end up being taken down for one reason or another. Some of the drama is interesting but we are physicians and should know better than to risk creating a paper trail for minimal personal benefit. I doubt the days of regular posts on scutwork will ever make a come back.

Doximity appears to have over 50 ranks and 10 reviews for the programs i just quickly checked. These are all recent as doximity’s rankings came out in the past 5 years.

The tiers from previous threads are probably reasonable starting points for competitiveness. I doubt you would get poor training from any top or mid tier program. You need to figure out what type of environment you would thrive in and rank accordingly. Final rank lists usually come down to gut anyways.
 
What I find interesting is that residents spent a sizable amount of time and money to travel to these locations to figure out something the community could easily supply for free.

I'd advise you to do some research into how the process of matching and residency works (you clearly have data acquisition skills) and that might help you. No one wants to hire someone (who is hard, but not impossible to fire) without interviewing them so that they can meet them in person and try and find out if they would be a good fit with the program. You may compile this list and then find that with your SO's academic performance and grades that list might be a reach; not every applicant could get a place in every residency program (Forum joke: But we're on SDN so that isn't an issue).

More important than all that you or your SO might have some family that you are close to and want to be able to see or you might hate the cold or the heat or rain, there might be places it's easier and harder for you to find a job; look my point is that there are other personal factors which go in this choice that no one on an internet forum is going to answer for you and some of that stuff can help you narrow down where you want to look. There is a body that accredits residency programs (ACGME) so that there are minimum requirements to graduate from an Anesthesiology residency, but each program is setup and run differently and are in vastly different hospital systems (a lot of the information on how programs are setup is on their websites). It can also be hard to switch from one residency program to another so no mater what someone told me I would want to go see the place and meet the people myself.

Finally uncertainty is part of medicine in general and it's part of life; there isn't an open market system for residency placement we use NRMP match, what that means though is that the applicant expresses a preference list and the programs produce preference lists and they try and put all the applicants in the program which was highest on their list which had them high enough on the program list to get a position. This means some people will get there 1st or 2nd choice and other people will be going down a lot further on their list to get a match.
 
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