Anyone else's interns/residents not let them call them doctor?

[Bobdabuilda14]

MS3 here, The interns and residents get annoyed when we call them Dr. ---, only attendings can be called this. We are required however to call them Doctor in front of patients.

One of the interns said we aren't so far off from them and we should call them by their first thing because we are just a few months from becoming them. Pretty odd huh?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ACSurgeon]

MS3 here, The interns and residents get annoyed when we call them Dr. ---, only attendings can be called this. We are required however to call them Doctor in front of patients.

One of the interns said we aren't so far off from them and we should call them by their first thing because we are just a few months from becoming them. Pretty odd huh?

In front of patients you should call them doctor. I call my interns doctors in front of patients. My attendings do too.

 

[petyr_baelish]

MS3 here, The interns and residents get annoyed when we call them Dr. ---, only attendings can be called this. We are required however to call them Doctor in front of patients.

One of the interns said we aren't so far off from them and we should call them by their first thing because we are just a few months from becoming them. Pretty odd huh?

It sounds like they are trying to eliminate awkwardness and trying to view you as an equal which is a nice gesture. As awkward as that makes you feel, you don't have a choice. People get to dictate how they themselves are to be addressed.

 

[Psai]

I thought it was weird at first but now I think it's normal. Residents and fellows by first name unless they indicate otherwise and attendings by dr last even if they indicate otherwise. In front of patients, everyone with an md is dr whoever.

 

[Ismet]

Completely normal.

 

[J ROD]

I thought it was weird at first but now I think it's normal. Residents and fellows by first name unless they indicate otherwise and attendings by dr last even if they indicate otherwise. In front of patients, everyone with an md is dr whoever.

this.

 

[AMEHigh]

Totally normal.

I definitely prefer being addressed by my first name.

When I was a student I rotated at a program where even the attendings were called by their first name by the residents. I liked it.

 

[572776]

Those residents are awesome. if those residents wanted you to address them as Dr. So and so, that would be weird...

 

[Merely]

This is one of the most normal things I've seen and the fact that you think it is super odd is odd lol

 

[ACSurgeon]

This is one of the most normal things I've seen and the fact that you think it is super odd is odd lol

Students still get the advice that they should address all doctors as Dr. so and so, including residents, until they are told to use first name. Every 4 weeks when I get new students, the page/email I get addresses me as Dr. Lastname until I tell them to call me by my first name. This is despite being at relatively easy-going program where no surgical or other resident/fellow expects to be called Dr. lastname.

 

[Señor S]

I always address residents as "Dr. <Last name>" unless they specifically ask me not to. Thus far, only one person has. Calling them by their first names just seems overly familiar. They're not old friends of mine. We didn't play in the sandbox together.

But I do understand why a lot of them are uncomfortable being addressed that way, especially the more junior ones. It's certainly not weird. Pretty much all residents will introduce themselves by their first names too.

 

[DNM]

I always address residents as "Dr. <Last name>" unless they specifically ask me not to. Thus far, only one person has. Calling them by their first names just seems overly familiar. They're not old friends of mine. We didn't play in the sandbox together.

But I do understand why a lot of them are uncomfortable being addressed that way, especially the more junior ones. It's certainly not weird. Pretty much all residents will introduce themselves by their first names too.

At the same time, while they are your seniors they're just but a few years above you. Would you expect current ms1's to call you Dr. so and so as an intern or resident? Personally, I think it would be weird, and will go by my first name as a resident (but Dr. X in front of patients). While calling residents by their first name might seem overly familiar, calling a resident Dr. Smith instead of Joe seems like it would keep your relationship pretty distant/clinical as opposed to collegial but friendly.

 

[Law2Doc]

being in first name basis is collegial. They are eliminating the unnecessary hierarchical construct. Not a bad thing. If they MADE you call them doctor, it would be a but off-putting, like... "I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called "mister", thank you very much"...

 

[mvenus929]

All medical students that are currently rotating with us have been in medical school at the same time as I was. Maybe if I was a surgery resident in my 5th year, I'd have a different opinion, but I think it's weird to make people who would've called me by my first name a year and a half ago, who will also be physicians in a couple years, call me 'Dr. Lastname' instead.

 

[McGillian]

I call them "mom" and "dad" and I've never had this problem.

 

[Señor S]

At the same time, while they are your seniors they're just but a few years above you. Would you expect current ms1's to call you Dr. so and so as an intern or resident? Personally, I think it would be weird, and will go by my first name as a resident (but Dr. X in front of patients). While calling residents by their first name might seem overly familiar, calling a resident Dr. Smith instead of Joe seems like it would keep your relationship pretty distant/clinical as opposed to collegial but friendly.

True they're only a few years ahead of me (although taking the long view isn't that true of everybody?) but there's still a big gap: they've graduated, have obtained the doctoral degree and most of/all the privileges and responsibilties that go with it. I'm a med student, legally closer to a pre-med shadowing than to any physician. And truth be told I feel much closer to a typical shadower or volunteer than I do to any doctor, which brings me to another point: residents, whether they're comfortable with it or not, are still authority figures. Even when they don't directly evaluate us they certainly wield some indirect power via the more senior residents/attendings. We're not colleagues, in other words, so while I try to be friendly I'm hesitant to get too close.

Also there's more than a little ass-kissery involved here on my part. When on surgery I asked some newbie scrub tech if she had some gloves for me and she said "Yes sir," as humble and unassuming as I am, I still got a little frisson of excitement. Most of us got into this at least somewhat for the (real or imagined) prestige of the thing, and it's nice to feel like somebody respects you, especially when you feel chronically disrespected as I think many residents do.

But I'm not saying my approach is the only or best one; I may even be perceived negatively ("That guy is so weird!") for doing it. But that's just where my head is at, at least right now. And let me just reiterate that if residents ask me to call them by their first names I will always do so. And I would make the same request of any med student if I were in their shoes.

 

[eye love lamp]

In addition to students, I also have the patients call me by my first name. People get hung up and put too much pride on this Doctor title crap.

 

[ACSurgeon]

In addition to students, I also have the patients call me by my first name. People get hung up and put too much pride on this Doctor title crap.

I've seen residents and attendings do this. It's style and you're welcome to do what you want. As a resident, I think it's especially important that you introduce yourself as doctor so and so to the patient so that they understand that you are one of the physicians taking care of them. Even then, some will think you're a student. This is especially important in academic settings with nurses, pharmacists, NPs/PAs and students in all the above disciplines entering the patient's room. Patients want to know who their doctor(s) are. I believe this makes it clear and helps the patient.

I don't think it's pride. It's your title in a professional setting. Again, more of a style thing, and you can do what makes you comfortable.

 

[eye love lamp]

I've seen residents and attendings do this. It's style and you're welcome to do what you want. As a resident, I think it's especially important that you introduce yourself as doctor so and so to the patient so that they understand that you are one of the physicians taking care of them. Even then, some will think you're a student. This is especially important in academic settings with nurses, pharmacists, NPs/PAs and students in all the above disciplines entering the patient's room. Patients want to know who their doctor(s) are. I believe this makes it clear and helps the patient.

I don't think it's pride. It's your title in a professional setting. Again, more of a style thing, and you can do what makes you comfortable.

Half of the nurses/pharmacists/therapists are going to introduce themselves as Doctor anyway. I always say I'm ELL, the ophthalmology resident.

No confusion is had.

 

[Siggy]

MS3 here, The interns and residents get annoyed when we call them Dr. ---, only attendings can be called this. We are required however to call them Doctor in front of patients.

One of the interns said we aren't so far off from them and we should call them by their first thing because we are just a few months from becoming them. Pretty odd huh?

In front of patients, I'm "Doctor Last name." Any other time, I'm "Siggy" (med students, nursing, etc. I honestly don't care). In my experience, it's pretty universal.

Now to be honest, if someone called me "Siggy" in front of a patient, I probably wouldn't notice anyways.

 

[WingedOx]

I insist on being called by my SDN handle.

/that's "DR Ox" to you, sir!

 

[Siggy]

I insist on being called by my SDN handle.

/that's "DR Ox" to you, sir!

Also... LOG!

 

[WingedOx]

Also... LOG!

I couldn't find "Don't Whiz on the Electric Fence" that worked well as an avatar.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

I always address residents as "Dr. <Last name>" unless they specifically ask me not to. Thus far, only one person has. Calling them by their first names just seems overly familiar. They're not old friends of mine. We didn't play in the sandbox together.

But I do understand why a lot of them are uncomfortable being addressed that way, especially the more junior ones. It's certainly not weird. Pretty much all residents will introduce themselves by their first names too.

If you're going to take this approach, I suggest also paying attention to the body language of the resident and the students around you. If every other student in a group of five people calls the resident by his/her first name, and you don't, that's weird. Also, if they are visibly made uncomfortable when you address them as "Dr. ___" you should probably switch.

Watching someone break these guidelines is really uncomfortable.

People have politeness ingrained in them: they might not tell you if you have your fly down, or if they prefer first names.

Also there's more than a little ass-kissery involved here on my part. When on surgery I asked some newbie scrub tech if she had some gloves for me and she said "Yes sir," as humble and unassuming as I am, I still got a little frisson of excitement. Most of us got into this at least somewhat for the (real or imagined) prestige of the thing, and it's nice to feel like somebody respects you, especially when you feel chronically disrespected as I think many residents do.

But I'm not saying my approach is the only or best one; I may even be perceived negatively ("That guy is so weird!") for doing it. But that's just where my head is at, at least right now. And let me just reiterate that if residents ask me to call them by their first names I will always do so. And I would make the same request of any med student if I were in their shoes.

Two things:
1.)Ass kissing like this is really transparent. Some people like it, but many despise it. Your call.
2.) I think most people would shrug off this level of oddness, but I'd guess this is something that's more likely to hurt you than help you. Respect is nice, but it's a lot nicer to feel like you can relax. If I had a student calling me Dr. Batman, I'd probably think they were either a professionalism cheerleader or an asskisser.

Just my opinion though, I hope it works out for you.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Half of the nurses/pharmacists/therapists are going to introduce themselves as Doctor anyway. I always say I'm ELL, the ophthalmology resident.

No confusion is had.

I've yet to see a non-physician introduce themselves as Dr. in the hospital setting. Maybe

If you're going to take this approach, I suggest also paying attention to the body language of the resident and the students around you. If every other student in a group of five people calls the resident by his/her first name, and you don't, that's weird. Also, if they are visibly made uncomfortable when you address them as "Dr. ___" you should probably switch.

Watching someone break these guidelines is really uncomfortable.

People have politeness ingrained in them: they might not tell you if you have your fly down, or if they prefer first names.

Two things:
1.)Ass kissing like this is really transparent. Some people like it, but many despise it. Your call.
2.) I think most people would shrug off this level of oddness, but I'd guess this is something that's more likely to hurt you than help you. Respect is nice, but it's a lot nicer to feel like you can relax. If I had a student calling me Dr. Batman, I'd probably think they were either a professionalism cheerleader or an asskisser.

Just my opinion though, I hope it works out for you.

Not sure residents are made uncomfortable when a student addresses them Dr. Lastname. If I was in that situation I would tell the student once or twice that they can call me by my first name. If they continue to call me Dr. Lastname I would not care. As a resident, when you ask a student to call you by your first name, you're inviting them to feel like they are part of your team; i.e. it's for the benefit of the student not the resident.

 

[J ROD]

What if you call the resident by their last name?

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

I've yet to see a non-physician introduce themselves as Dr. in the hospital setting. Maybe


Not sure residents are made uncomfortable when a student addresses them Dr. Lastname. If I was in that situation I would tell the student once or twice that they can call me by my first name. If they continue to call me Dr. Lastname I would not care. As a resident, when you ask a student to call you by your first name, you're inviting them to feel like they are part of your team; i.e. it's for the benefit of the student not the resident.

My bad, poor editing. I originally included that with this:

"I was on a team of around 10 people, all of whom were using first names after multiple weeks together, except one student. This person continued to call the residents Dr. Lastname the entire time."

Not the end of the world, but it was definitely uncomfortable for me. I guess I can't say if it was uncomfortable for the Ob resident. Anyway, that's way mroe thought and time than this deserves. Call people whatever you want OP, you'll figure it out.

 

[22031 Alum]

In addition to students, I also have the patients call me by my first name. People get hung up and put too much pride on this Doctor title crap.

I insist that residents drop the "Oh, just call me Firstname!!" thing. For one thing, it contributes to the confusion people have about what residents actually are. That's how I end up with patients who want to exclude residents from their care so "a doctor" can treat them. Secondly, I work with a poor and poorly educated population that tends to distrust the medical system. The days when students were allowed to run around public hospitals practicing on poor patients with no supervision aren't that far off (my colleagues still talk about it). I feel that patients deserve to know that they are being treated by actual physicians- even if they are still in training.

 

[cbrons]

Well whatever you do, don't be that idiot that calls the attending by his first name (even if the residents do it, it is NOT ok for the med student to do it). Supremely awkward when you have that one socially ******ed 4th year Sub-I who thinks he is chummy with everyone at the top instead of being an outsider.

 

[eye love lamp]

I insist that residents drop the "Oh, just call me Firstname!!" thing. For one thing, it contributes to the confusion people have about what residents actually are. That's how I end up with patients who want to exclude residents from their care so "a doctor" can treat them. Secondly, I work with a poor and poorly educated population that tends to distrust the medical system. The days when students were allowed to run around public hospitals practicing on poor patients with no supervision aren't that far off (my colleagues still talk about it). I feel that patients deserve to know that they are being treated by actual physicians- even if they are still in training.

I work in a very poor area with ~50% non English speaking population. I have never had an issue with confusion or patients requesting to see "a doctor." Usually when I introduce myself as John, they say "Hi Dr. John." They are refreshed and feel like there's less of a power imbalance and that I'm more approachable. Rather than "the doctor" telling them what they need to do, we have a conversation and arrive at a mutual treatment decision. I've had multiple patients tell me they requested me specifically over other providers for this reason.

Perhaps there's a difference because I work primary in an outpatient setting? I've never had an issue on inpatient consults but I see less inpatients than the average IM/gen surg doc.

 

[22031 Alum]

I work in a very poor area with ~50% non English speaking population. I have never had an issue with confusion or patients requesting to see "a doctor." Usually when I introduce myself as John, they say "Hi Dr. John." They are refreshed and feel like there's less of a power imbalance and that I'm more approachable. Rather than "the doctor" telling them what they need to do, we have a conversation and arrive at a mutual treatment decision. I've had multiple patients tell me they requested me specifically over other providers for this reason.

Perhaps there's a difference because I work primary in an outpatient setting? I've never had an issue on inpatient consults but I see less inpatients than the average IM/gen surg doc.

It may be a matter of inpatient vs. outpatient, but I'm not so sure the bolded can be ascribed to you using your first name. Especially because you say yourself that they still call you Doctor - so it's not like the dynamic has completely changed. Also, I can say the exact same thing about my patient interactions in which I'm Dr. Alum, not 22031 or Dr. 22031. So it probably comes down to your overall bedside manner and approach to the patient. What you call yourself is a part of that but not the be-all end-all.

Edited to add: my patient population is 100% Medicaid or uninsured but probably 80+% English speaking. They and their families are not recent arrivals to the area and they know the history of "County." At least twice a week we get someone who wants to kick out the resident in favor of "a real doctor," and maybe once a month someone who expresses concern that they are being practiced on and aren't actually being seen by a physician.

 

[tiedyeddog]

If a medical student addressed me a s Doctor Tiedyeddog I would politely ask them to call me my first name. If they did it again I would think that person was weird.

 

[Flamen04]

I just call every male resident bro and every female resident girl

 

[Mace1370]

I just call every male resident bro and every female resident girl

This guy gets it.

I always ask that medical students call me by my first name. Some refuse to, which is super weird. I silently judge them.

 

[mimelim]

I ask the students to call me by my first name. But, I also ask nurses that I know/work with regularly to call me by my first name as well. I have found that people work better with me if they do. Nurses are far more likely to bring up the important things quickly and also shield me from the bs when they feel like we are all doing different jobs, but part of the same team.

*shrug* to each their own. But, if you are going to be an IM intern trying to interact with me and insisting on being called Dr. XYZ, you better know your ****. I get it that you are proud of graduating medical school, but if you sound like a complete and utter *****, you probably shouldn't be trying to get me to call you Dr. XYZ after I introduce myself by my first and last name.

 

[Goro]

I wouldn't be too hard on them...the mentor/mentee relationship is akin to parent/child (especially if they're from cultures that place a high respect for their elders)...so for these kids, it's like trying to get them to call their mom or dad by their first names!

Lemme tell ya story (two actually). One of my students was an older mom whose daughter was the same age as my son. She rented a house right around the corner from us and our kids went to the same preschool and day-care provider. I viewed her as a fellow parent, neighbor and friend. So I told her "over here, just call me [first name]". But she couldn't do it!

I had another student with me in a different lab, and I told her "in research, we're far less formal, so here you can call me [first name]". Nope, it was always "Dr Goro"!

This guy gets it.
I always ask that medical students call me by my first name. Some refuse to, which is super weird. I silently judge them.

 

[235009]

I wouldn't be too hard on them...the mentor/mentee relationship is akin to parent/child (especially if they're from cultures that place a high respect for their elders)...so for these kids, it's like trying to get them to call their mom or dad by their first names!

Lemme tell ya story (two actually). One of my students was an older mom whose daughter was the same age as my son. She rented a house right around the corner from us and our kids went to the same preschool and day-care provider. I viewed her as a fellow parent, neighbor and friend. So I told her "over here, just call me [first name]". But she couldn't do it!

I had another student with me in a different lab, and I told her "in research, we're far less formal, so here you can call me [first name]". Nope, it was always "Dr Goro"!

Your example is more similar to a relationship between med student and attending. Even as a senior resident I find it weird to call some attendings by their first name. As others have said though med students should be calling residents by their first name. I usually let the first Dr. Tornado slide but beyond that I start thinking that their weird or think I'm gullible or can be manipulated. I've never had a med student insist on calling me by my last name though so that's hypothetical at this point.

 

[KEB]

My ER medical director is just out of residency, and often introduces himself as "Joe", even to patients. If I end up going to medical school, I too will probably introduce myself by my first name to patients, and certainly to colleagues. I like people who are secure enough with themselves that they don't need their ego stroked.

 

[Law2Doc]

My ER medical director is just out of residency, and often introduces himself as "Joe", even to patients. If I end up going to medical school, I too will probably introduce myself by my first name to patients, and certainly to colleagues. I like people who are secure enough with themselves that they don't need their ego stroked.

I think using your title at least initially with patients has some value because they won't have s good sense of the roles the dozen people who frequent their room have. That's different than a trainee or student who all too well knows the hierarchy. I see nothing wrong with being on a first name basis, particularly if working with the same group for a fair amount of time, when patients aren't around. It's exciting to call yourself doctor for the first week or two of intern year, but after that you get over it.

 

[cbrons]

My ER medical director is just out of residency, and often introduces himself as "Joe", even to patients. If I end up going to medical school, I too will probably introduce myself by my first name to patients, and certainly to colleagues. I like people who are secure enough with themselves that they don't need their ego stroked.

This is not a good idea. Patients are patients not your friend. Studies have also shown that patients like the formal white coat approach vs. "Hey im Bob" burmuda shorts act.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is not a good idea. Patients are patients not your friend. Studies have also shown that patients like the formal white coat approach vs. "Hey im Bob" burmuda shorts act.

Bermuda

 

[eye love lamp]

This is not a good idea. Patients are patients not your friend. Studies have also shown that patients like the formal white coat approach vs. "Hey im Bob" burmuda shorts act.

Do you have links to those studies?