foreverbull

2+ Year Member
Sep 8, 2015
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Quick question: Someone I know who has interned previously at a site I'm interested offered to "put a word in" for me because they are still very close to the TD..Not sure if this would help or hurt my chances, thoughts?
It’s my understanding that for internship particularly, the playing field is supposed to be pretty even and objective given the time and expense everyone has put into the process. While I don’t doubt that people knowing people and word-of-mouth happens from time to time, I’m not sure that this is actually appropriate to do this, so I would caution against anyone speaking on your behalf at this point. Since you’ve already interviewed, the site has already probably ranked you or has a good sense of where you are.
 

psyche27

Clinical Psychologist and Training Director
7+ Year Member
Dec 14, 2011
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It’s my understanding that for internship particularly, the playing field is supposed to be pretty even and objective given the time and expense everyone has put into the process. While I don’t doubt that people knowing people and word-of-mouth happens from time to time, I’m not sure that this is actually appropriate to do this, so I would caution against anyone speaking on your behalf at this point. Since you’ve already interviewed, the site has already probably ranked you or has a good sense of where you are.
Happens pretty frequently in my area of internship. Frankly the only good it may do at my site is if your application was on the cusp of being in the interview pile it might bump it into the interview pile. It doesn’t factor into our rankings at all. Unless the “word” is a cautionary tale, in which case it can bump you out.
 
Nov 16, 2019
9
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Psychology Student
One question - are we considered graduating from accredited internship or non-accredited internship if we started when the site was accredited (on probation) and lost the accreditation during the training year?
 
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sabine_psyd

Child and Adolescent/Pediatric Psychologist
2+ Year Member
Mar 2, 2017
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One question - are we considered graduating from accredited internship or non-accredited internship if we started when the site was accredited (on probation) and lost the accreditation during the training year?
“An accredited program cannot have its accreditation revoked without first being placed on “accredited, on probation” status. Revocation of accreditation occurs when the CoA, in its review of a program on “accredited, on probation” status, has evidence that the program continues to be inconsistent with the SoA.

The effective date of the revocation is the date of the CoA meeting in which the decision was made. If the program appeals the CoA's decision to revoke, and that decision is upheld, the revocation will take effect 30 days after the appeal hearing is held. Individuals completing the program after that date are not considered to have completed an accredited program.”

In short, it would be considered non-accredited. This is true for internships as well as doctoral programs. It has to be accredited on the day of completion.

 
Nov 25, 2019
3
2
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Psychology Student
Has anyone else had an exit interview where the TD gives feedback at the end of the day? Essentially telling you their impression of your strengths and weaknesses in interviewing and case discussion? :(
I had a similar experience and I found it really positive and helpful. How was it for you?
 
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Ryan2468

Counseling Psychology PhD Student
Nov 4, 2019
57
158
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Psychology Student
I wonder if the primacy and recency effect influences rank for sites? Thoughts?
I had more issue with confirmation bias than anything. Had to make sure I was checking myself since I had my rankings done first based on paper, and at times this matched up with in-person. Sometimes it didn't so I had to start making sure I wasn't falling victim to the bias! This process has been "fun".
 

psycho1391

Clinical Psychology Ph.D. Candidate
5+ Year Member
Jan 29, 2014
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I had quite a few sites that I ranked lower initially that really blew my socks off! Then, I had some sites that just flat out were horrible fits. One site looked amazing on paper, but as soon as I spoke with the interns, I decided not to rank that site.

My number one remained that way through the entire process and was ranked as such.

This process is wild for sure. Only 18 more days!
 
Oct 30, 2019
59
127
I had quite a few sites that I ranked lower initially that really blew my socks off! Then, I had some sites that just flat out were horrible fits. One site looked amazing on paper, but as soon as I spoke with the interns, I decided not to rank that site.

My number one remained that way through the entire process and was ranked as such.

This process is wild for sure. Only 18 more days!
I feel the same but my 1 and 2 switched.. just barely! Definitely impatiently waiting on the 21st
 
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Dec 10, 2019
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I had quite a few sites that I ranked lower initially that really blew my socks off! Then, I had some sites that just flat out were horrible fits. One site looked amazing on paper, but as soon as I spoke with the interns, I decided not to rank that site.

My number one remained that way through the entire process and was ranked as such.

This process is wild for sure. Only 18 more days!
My number 1 stayed my number 1, too! :)
 
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Dec 5, 2019
5
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What does it mean if a site withdrew from the match? I guess I'm curious under what circumstances that would happen. I found out when I went in to submit rankings earlier this week (finally today got an email).
 
Oct 30, 2019
59
127
What does it mean if a site withdrew from the match? I guess I'm curious under what circumstances that would happen. I found out when I went in to submit rankings earlier this week (finally today got an email).
I agree with the comment above. They probably could not secure funding. It’s unfortunate timing. Hopefully it wasn’t a site that you really loved!
 

LadyEmmaPeel

PsyD Doctoral Candidate - Clinical Psychology
Dec 13, 2019
78
160
New York City
Status
Psychology Student
Hi all, I'm back with anotherrrrr question :p. Is it better to rank everywhere you interviewed to make sure you match, even the places you had serious reservations about and didn't really like (but location, pay, and training oops were "okay")...rather than go into Phase Two? What are the odds I would get ANY neuropsych somewhere within 5 hrs of home in Phase Two? :eek: "I'm freaking out, man!"
1elksy.jpg
 

LadyEmmaPeel

PsyD Doctoral Candidate - Clinical Psychology
Dec 13, 2019
78
160
New York City
Status
Psychology Student
Hi! Brand new to this thread. I did the match a couple years ago, but was more of a lurker than a poster back then too haha. Currently working in the field. Best wishes to everyone in this crazy stressful process! I wanted to leave some information I thought could be useful to some of you. I recently learned something from a colleague about Utah State Hospital’s internship that sort of shook me. This person heard that they dismissed one of their interns this year for strange reasons that did not seem to warrant something so extreme and felt more personal than professional, that many on the training committee at this site generally behave somewhat erratically and irrationally, and the training environment is not supportive. Just passing along what I’ve heard and can’t give many more details than that because that’s all I know at this point. Thought this might help some of you when it comes to ranking decisions, or could be worth looking into further if you are considering this site. Sorry for the negative news! It felt important to share given how much of a difference a good versus bad internship experience makes in one's development as a psychologist.
Thank you for sharing these pearls!!!
 
Nov 22, 2019
29
48
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Psychology Student
I’m having such a hard time trying to rank my top 3. All three sites are great but two of them require me to move out of state and one of them is local. However, the sites that are out of state have some great training opportunities that I would not get at the local site. But the local site has a unique population I would get to work with, I wouldn’t have to move and I’ve heard from people is a great training site. Ahhh! I feel the sites are dead even with each other. How are y’all making the decisions regarding the order of your top 3? Any feedback would greatly help!
 

psycho1391

Clinical Psychology Ph.D. Candidate
5+ Year Member
Jan 29, 2014
97
175
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Psychology Student
Hi all, I'm back with anotherrrrr question :p. Is it better to rank everywhere you interviewed to make sure you match, even the places you had serious reservations about and didn't really like (but location, pay, and training oops were "okay")...rather than go into Phase Two? What are the odds I would get ANY neuropsych somewhere within 5 hrs of home in Phase Two? :eek: "I'm freaking out, man!"
View attachment 294830
I guess it depends on what you are okay with. Would you rather scramble to meet your location needs (5 hours from home),or be somewhere for a year that you really don't like? If you don't rank some of the places and decrease your chances of matching, you will have to ask yourself if you are okay with being in Phase II.
 
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Dec 10, 2019
28
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Hi all, I'm back with anotherrrrr question :p. Is it better to rank everywhere you interviewed to make sure you match, even the places you had serious reservations about and didn't really like (but location, pay, and training oops were "okay")...rather than go into Phase Two? What are the odds I would get ANY neuropsych somewhere within 5 hrs of home in Phase Two? :eek: "I'm freaking out, man!"
View attachment 294830
Honestly, I would MUCH rather go through Phase II than get stuck at a program I didn’t like in Phase I. It’s just not worth it to me. If I don’t like the track or site, I’m not ranking it. Plus, there are good sites in Phase II. Maybe not neuropsych so much, but I’m sure there will be some!
 
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sabine_psyd

Child and Adolescent/Pediatric Psychologist
2+ Year Member
Mar 2, 2017
177
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I guess it depends on what you are okay with. Would you rather scramble to meet your location needs (5 hours from home),or be somewhere for a year that you really don't like? If you don't rank some of the places and decrease your chances of matching, you will have to ask yourself if you are okay with being in Phase II.
I matched to a site in a town that I had never heard of prior to match, in a state I probably thought about once in my life prior to match. However, after internship, opportunities in my best interest professionally kept me here. I am about two hours away from where I did my internship and I was hired as a licensed psychologist at the same site I completed my postdoc. My internship TD is still my boss; although now I see him once every few months instead of every day :)

Point is, I think flexibility in relocation is very important, except in certain circumstances that involve children or a spouse in which relocation for them would be difficult. The quality of the training you receive is more important, in my opinion, than geographic region. Also if you want to specialize, making connections during internship will serve you well.
 
Oct 30, 2019
59
127
Hi all, I'm back with anotherrrrr question :p. Is it better to rank everywhere you interviewed to make sure you match, even the places you had serious reservations about and didn't really like (but location, pay, and training oops were "okay")...rather than go into Phase Two? What are the odds I would get ANY neuropsych somewhere within 5 hrs of home in Phase Two? :eek: "I'm freaking out, man!"
View attachment 294830
I agree that it definitely depends on whether location is more important than a satisfactory training. I did not rank any places that I wouldn’t be comfortable at for a year but I also have nothing tying me to a specific location. Phase II had great options last year. I am not sure about neuropsych with location proximity. Good luck with your decision!
 
Oct 4, 2019
280
461
Status
Psychology Student
Anyone have insider info on Broughton State Hospital and San Bernardino Behavioral Health?

I submitted my ranks 2 weeks ago and now I’m having doubts about these two. :(
 
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Oct 30, 2019
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I’m having such a hard time trying to rank my top 3. All three sites are great but two of them require me to move out of state and one of them is local. However, the sites that are out of state have some great training opportunities that I would not get at the local site. But the local site has a unique population I would get to work with, I wouldn’t have to move and I’ve heard from people is a great training site. Ahhh! I feel the sites are dead even with each other. How are y’all making the decisions regarding the order of your top 3? Any feedback would greatly help!
Do the training opportunities at the other sites outweigh the unique population? It also helps to go with your gut and certify it. See how you feel once your certify it because you can change it up until the deadline.
 

Complex Figure

Clinical Psychology Doctoral Student
2+ Year Member
Jan 29, 2016
39
108
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California Medical Facility Vacaville is pulling out of the match. I'm sure they're contact everyone who interviewed but just in case...
 
Nov 22, 2019
29
48
Status
Psychology Student
Do the training opportunities at the other sites outweigh the unique population? It also helps to go with your gut and certify it. See how you feel once your certify it because you can change it up until the deadline.
Hmm...I think both places have their pros and cons related to their training opportunities but I do believe the training opportunities at one site does outweigh the unique population.
You’re right. I’m going to go with my gut because I’ve changed me list about 5 times now but I think I need to stop overthinking it all. They are all great sites and I know I’ll get good training wherever I go. Thanks!
 
Nov 25, 2019
58
131
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Psychology Student
California Medical Facility Vacaville is pulling out of the match. I'm sure they're contact everyone who interviewed but just in case...
I think it is honestly for the best but still a disappointment. The interns there this year seemed so unhappy when I was there interviewing due to all of the changes resulting from the switch to California Department of Corrections, and many of the supervisors left to go to Napa State Hospital so it seems that they are losing staff left and right. It is such a shame as they had a historically amazing training program for forensics :-(
 
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Feb 6, 2020
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Hey there!

As some others have mentioned, I'm having substantial difficulty choosing between my top two: Harvard MGH and Einstein Montefiore.

Do people have any insights on how to choose in a way that will be good for my career long-term? I currently live in NY, so MGH would be a relocation plus a $20K salary difference. With that in mind, is the name really worth it?
 
Aug 31, 2019
34
22
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Psychology Student
I was wondering about potential benefits of going to a more "established" VA site vs. a lesser known site? I feel as though the interview went better at the non-VA site, but in terms of money/location/future job opportunities it seems like the VAs are the way to go...

I know the decision is personal but I suppose I was wondering in general the benefits of a VA generalist program vs. a lesser known generalist type program..
 
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Complex Figure

Clinical Psychology Doctoral Student
2+ Year Member
Jan 29, 2016
39
108
California
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I think it is honestly for the best but still a disappointment. The interns there this year seemed so unhappy when I was there interviewing due to all of the changes resulting from the switch to California Department of Corrections, and many of the supervisors left to go to Napa State Hospital so it seems that they are losing staff left and right. It is such a shame as they had a historically amazing training program for forensics :-(
Yes, this was my experience. They helped me with the "should I even rank them" question.
 

NeuroJaguar

2+ Year Member
Oct 6, 2016
80
159
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Psychology Student
Hey there!

As some others have mentioned, I'm having substantial difficulty choosing between my top two: Harvard MGH and Einstein Montefiore.

Do people have any insights on how to choose in a way that will be good for my career long-term? I currently live in NY, so MGH would be a relocation plus a $20K salary difference. With that in mind, is the name really worth it?
I think both these programs have great reputations and you can't go wrong with either. If you want to stay in NYC long term, it might be nice to continue to make connections through a NYC-based internship.
 

NeuroJaguar

2+ Year Member
Oct 6, 2016
80
159
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Psychology Student
I applied to a program with no sick days and only 10 days of PTO. At the interview, only one of the current interns had taken a day off so far due to illness, and she said she "worked it out with [her] supervisor." I'm really nervous about the idea of being at a site with no sick days. What if I get the flu (even with the flu shot)?! This seems super ableist, disrespectful to patients (we could infect them), and to me suggests a lack of respect for interns. I am worried about not ranking one of my programs (out of 5 interviews) but at the same time, I don't think I can do a year with only 10 days of PTO and no sick time. Thoughts?
 
Dec 10, 2019
28
65
Status
Psychology Student
I applied to a program with no sick days and only 10 days of PTO. At the interview, only one of the current interns had taken a day off so far due to illness, and she said she "worked it out with [her] supervisor." I'm really nervous about the idea of being at a site with no sick days. What if I get the flu (even with the flu shot)?! This seems super ableist, disrespectful to patients (we could infect them), and to me suggests a lack of respect for interns. I am worried about not ranking one of my programs (out of 5 interviews) but at the same time, I don't think I can do a year with only 10 days of PTO and no sick time. Thoughts?
If you don't like this program and don't want to rank them, I wouldn't rank them just for the sake of possibly matching in Phase I. If I remember correctly, the probability of matching to one of the top four sites is between 80 and 90 percent. If by some chance you don't match in Phase I, there are still plenty of sites - and good sites - in Phase II. If you don't want to go to a site, don't rank them. Yes, it is just for a year, but it is also a year.
 
Oct 4, 2019
280
461
Status
Psychology Student
I applied to a program with no sick days and only 10 days of PTO. At the interview, only one of the current interns had taken a day off so far due to illness, and she said she "worked it out with [her] supervisor." I'm really nervous about the idea of being at a site with no sick days. What if I get the flu (even with the flu shot)?! This seems super ableist, disrespectful to patients (we could infect them), and to me suggests a lack of respect for interns. I am worried about not ranking one of my programs (out of 5 interviews) but at the same time, I don't think I can do a year with only 10 days of PTO and no sick time. Thoughts?
Why can’t you use the PTO when you’re sick? Personal time off is personal time off. Who will check if you’re sick or not?

Someone can correct me but I thought PTO can be used for anything you deem personally important to you.

Also, what will happen if you use all 10 days of PTO and get the flu or chicken pox? Are you expected to come in? Will you get in trouble if you don’t and berated for your body deciding to get sick?

I’ve never had a job with any type of PTO or sick days, hence all the questions :p
 
Nov 15, 2019
64
135
Status
Psychology Student
Hi all, I'm back with anotherrrrr question :p. Is it better to rank everywhere you interviewed to make sure you match, even the places you had serious reservations about and didn't really like (but location, pay, and training oops were "okay")...rather than go into Phase Two? What are the odds I would get ANY neuropsych somewhere within 5 hrs of home in Phase Two? :eek: "I'm freaking out, man!"
View attachment 294830
Phase II will likely have some high quality sites with neuropsych training, especially if you're looking for (or willing to accept) a VAMC internship. Some of the best VAs have had Phase II slots in recent years. Many VAMCs advertise as generalist training but have multiple neuropsych rotations (in neuropsych clinics but also in rehab, gero, TBI, and other specialty clinics). Even if they don't advertise a separate neuropsych track, many VAs can provide enough good neuro training to get you into a good post-doc.

Location will be more limited in Phase II.
 
Nov 15, 2019
64
135
Status
Psychology Student
I’m having such a hard time trying to rank my top 3. All three sites are great but two of them require me to move out of state and one of them is local. However, the sites that are out of state have some great training opportunities that I would not get at the local site. But the local site has a unique population I would get to work with, I wouldn’t have to move and I’ve heard from people is a great training site. Ahhh! I feel the sites are dead even with each other. How are y’all making the decisions regarding the order of your top 3? Any feedback would greatly help!
I'm reminding myself that, in the words of a beloved professor, "all decisions involve loss." Regardless of which amazing site I end up at, I will lose out on all the amazing opportunities at other sites.

My top 3 sites were pretty even all around, so I ranked them according to distance from where I live, assuming that stress and cost of apartment hunting and relocation will be lower if I move an hour away (my #1) compared to moving 5 hours (my #2) or 10 hours (my #3) away.

I also had my significant other (who may or may not move with me, depending on job options where I match) rank order my sites to help me adjust my rankings for sites I couldn't choose between.
I also had a tie between 2 other sites, and I texted a random friend to ask her how I should rank according to city (not training)...I totally passed off the burden of responsibility for every ranking choice I wasn't sure about.
 
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psycho1391

Clinical Psychology Ph.D. Candidate
5+ Year Member
Jan 29, 2014
97
175
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Psychology Student
Hey all.

I iust received a personalized email from a TD thanking me for applying, saying it was great interviewing with me, and reminding me that they are available for questions.

Should I reply back? If so, what?
 
Nov 18, 2019
60
54
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Psychologist
Phase II will likely have some high quality sites with neuropsych training, especially if you're looking for (or willing to accept) a VAMC internship. Some of the best VAs have had Phase II slots in recent years. Many VAMCs advertise as generalist training but have multiple neuropsych rotations (in neuropsych clinics but also in rehab, gero, TBI, and other specialty clinics). Even if they don't advertise a separate neuropsych track, many VAs can provide enough good neuro training to get you into a good post-doc.

Location will be more limited in Phase II.
You have to be VERY careful about this for neuro. If it's not a neuropsych track specifically, you have to work to meet the Houston guidelines, which is not always possible at every site.
 
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WisNeuro

Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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Feb 15, 2009
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You have to be VERY careful about this for neuro. If it's not a neuropsych track specifically, you have to work to meet the Houston guidelines, which is not always possible at every site.
Not as careful as most think. HCG is more about the overall training, of which internship is just one small part. Someone with a good background can still meet requirements and be competitive with a generalist internship. Neuro tracks are not necessary in some instances.
 
Nov 15, 2019
64
135
Status
Psychology Student
Hey all.

I iust received a personalized email from a TD thanking me for applying, saying it was great interviewing with me, and reminding me that they are available for questions.

Should I reply back? If so, what?
I got emails like this from 3 sites. I thought they were nice emails, but all my questions had been answered so I haven't responded. I hate to fill up their inboxes unless I have a specific question or something important to say.

If you have something to say or ask, then I'd say their email indicates they'd welcome your communication. But I don't think you need to respond unless you really want to. They probably sent these to everyone they ranked, so I doubt a lack of response on your end would be noticed or held against you.
 

NeuroJaguar

2+ Year Member
Oct 6, 2016
80
159
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Psychology Student
Why can’t you use the PTO when you’re sick? Personal time off is personal time off. Who will check if you’re sick or not?

Someone can correct me but I thought PTO can be used for anything you deem personally important to you.

Also, what will happen if you use all 10 days of PTO and get the flu or chicken pox? Are you expected to come in? Will you get in trouble if you don’t and berated for your body deciding to get sick?

I’ve never had a job with any type of PTO or sick days, hence all the questions :p
So, they call it 10 "vacation days" specifically, not just PTO. At some jobs, you have a PTO bank that you use for everything - sick, vacation, personal time etc. At others, you have those days designated differently and given/accrued separately. At this site, they referred to them as vacation days, and went out of their way to say that interns do not have sick or personal time.


And yeah, your final set of questions is what I'm getting at! Seems like a stupid policy to me. Between post-doc interviews, defending my dissertation, doctor appointments, and possibly being sick... I don't think 10 days off total for an entire year is going to cut it.

EDIT: They said that the vacation days *needed* to be scheduled at least a month in advance... so they wouldn't be very useful as sick days.
 
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Nov 15, 2019
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You have to be VERY careful about this for neuro. If it's not a neuropsych track specifically, you have to work to meet the Houston guidelines, which is not always possible at every site.
It's not possible at every site, and I can't speak to sites other than VAs, but there are lots of VAs that only offer a generalist track and have really high quality neuro training that more than meets Houston guidelines. For example, some VAs have TBI or gero specialty clinics where trainees can choose to focus on assessment; TBI assessments or neurocognitive and capacity evaluations with gero patients can essentially make these neuro rotations. For VAs with rehab rotations, a focus on neuropsych assessment in rehab setting means the rotation can not only count toward meeting Houston guidelines for internship training but could also set trainees up for a good neuropsych and/or rehab post-doc (allowing them to meet both neuro and rehab fellowship requirements with one 2-year neuro/rehab fellowship and could allow them to eventually double-board in neoropsych and rehab psychology which increases eligibility for neuropsychologist jobs in specialty settings).

This is not the case at all VAs, but any VAs have a lot of opportunities and (sometimes) flexibility. I'd say speak with training directors at each site to find out how many neuro or neuro-focused rotations they might be able to provide. Any VA with a neuro rotation could potentially (depending on staffing, number of other trainees, etc.) provide training that meets Houston guidelines. Also, some VAs have agreements allowing interns to complete an off-site neuro rotation at an affiliated hospital or medical school. These aren't always advertised in the brochures, but 2-of-3 VAs in my state and 3-of-9 VAs where I interviewed offer these unadvertised neuro rotation options.

Also, a VA internship could potentially open doors to VA VA neuropsych post-doc opportunities.
 
Oct 30, 2019
59
127
Hey all.

I iust received a personalized email from a TD thanking me for applying, saying it was great interviewing with me, and reminding me that they are available for questions.

Should I reply back? If so, what?
I received an email like this and did not respond because I did not have a question. Like above, they probably sent this to everyone that they ranked so your lack of response won’t affect anything at this point. If you do respond, make sure you don’t break the rules of indicating a rank or rank position. It is so much pressure not to say the wrong thing which also influenced my choice not to respond.
 
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Oct 4, 2019
280
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So, they call it 10 "vacation days" specifically, not just PTO. At some jobs, you have a PTO bank that you use for everything - sick, vacation, personal time etc. At others, you have those days designated differently and given/accrued separately. At this site, they referred to them as vacation days, and went out of their way to say that interns do not have sick or personal time.


And yeah, your final set of questions is what I'm getting at! Seems like a stupid policy to me. Between post-doc interviews, defending my dissertation, doctor appointments, and possibly being sick... I don't think 10 days off total for an entire year is going to cut it.

EDIT: They said that the vacation days *needed* to be scheduled at least a month in advance... so they wouldn't be very useful as sick days.
Oh I got it! At some places you have PTO and sick time is *unpaid*

So maybe they mean, of course call out when you’re sick, we just can’t pay you.

Maybe interns don’t get days, and you have to schedule vacation a month in advance because interns are SO essential to the operation at that site, the place will be utter chaos without you! Chaos I say!! Lol

And like I’m sorry but if I’m sick (coughing, sneezing all over the place) I am NOT coming in. I hate it when people do that **** (come in when they’re sick, and contaminate everyone) so I do not do this to others.
 
Oct 4, 2019
280
461
Status
Psychology Student
So, they call it 10 "vacation days" specifically, not just PTO. At some jobs, you have a PTO bank that you use for everything - sick, vacation, personal time etc. At others, you have those days designated differently and given/accrued separately. At this site, they referred to them as vacation days, and went out of their way to say that interns do not have sick or personal time.


And yeah, your final set of questions is what I'm getting at! Seems like a stupid policy to me. Between post-doc interviews, defending my dissertation, doctor appointments, and possibly being sick... I don't think 10 days off total for an entire year is going to cut it.

EDIT: They said that the vacation days *needed* to be scheduled at least a month in advance... so they wouldn't be very useful as sick days.
And also, some schools allow you to defend via Skype to not put financial burden on students at internship, so ask your school about this! I would love to avoid an extra flight if I can so I will be doing this option.
 
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