Are acceptances to DO schools becoming more difficult?

[cliquesh]

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I still don't. What do you mean by maldistribution?

We have plenty of doctors, but we don't have enough doctors working in poor communities or rural areas.

Most of the studies regarding this issue say we have a distribution problem; not a supply problem.

 

[nysegop]

We have plenty of doctors, but we don't have enough doctors working in poor communities or rural areas.

Most of the studies regarding this issue say we have a distribution problem; not a supply problem.

I think giving more incentives to both primary care and rural physicians would help.

 

[circulus vitios]

I think giving more incentives to both primary care and rural physicians would help.

There is an incentive: I believe rural jobs almost always pay more. As someone who has lived in a small town for his entire life, living in a small town sucks. You can't force educated 30 something professionals into small towns no matter how hard you try.

 

[cliquesh]

There is an incentive: I believe rural jobs almost always pay more. As someone who has lived in a small town for his entire life, living in a small town sucks. You can't force educated 30 something professionals into small towns no matter how hard you try.

That's the thing. I actually liked rural medicine, but most of my classmates wanted to kill themselves. Same for primary care. Even if family docs got paid 400k/yr, I'd be surprised if med students would start to flock to family medicine. All of the nonsense family docs have to put up with is unreasonable for most.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I've only shadowed a bit of primary care and I can imagine why people wouldn't want to go into family medicine. Being a referred physician is easier.

 

[nysegop]

Don't some schools really try to push primary care?

 

[user3]

Back on topic. Competition to get into DO schools will likely decrease as soon as the economy improves, because the applicant pool will probably dwindle while the large # of seats will remain.

 

[DrEnderW]

Competition to get into DO schools will likely decrease as soon as the economy improves, because the applicant pool will probably dwindle while the large # of seats will remain.

I've always been hesitant to agree with this statement, although I hear it very frequently and from reputable sources.

It's just hard to believe business/econ/finance/liberal arts majors are forecasting a hurting job market and decide to take all these science classes, find a passion for medicine, volunteer, rock the MCAT, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and pursue 7-11 years post-undergraduate education while making $50k half of that time.

It's such a ridiculously long, expensive, and mentally and emotionally taxing road I doubt people just jump into this because they think, "hey, great job security!" This is especially true with the hazy future the ACA will create.

 

[circulus vitios]

Don't some schools really try to push primary care?

Sure, just like how pre-meds "truly" want to do primary care.

A few years later those same pre-meds are gunning for derm and the school is the first one to brag about the number of derm matches.

 

[circulus vitios]

Back on topic. Competition to get into DO schools will likely decrease as soon as the economy improves, because the applicant pool will probably dwindle while the large # of seats will remain.

The economy will never improve. Welcome to the new America.

 

[GypsyHummus]

There is an incentive: I believe rural jobs almost always pay more. As someone who has lived in a small town for his entire life, living in a small town sucks. You can't force educated 30 something professionals into small towns no matter how hard you try.

It depends on how much more the pay would be. I've always wanted to do Pediatrics or fam med, and if the yearly pay was something like 250K-300K for primary care, I would move to a rural area in a heartbeat. Follow the money

 

[GypsyHummus]

I've always been hesitant to agree with this statement, although I hear it very frequently and from reputable sources.

It's just hard to believe business/econ/finance/liberal arts majors are forecasting a hurting job market and decide to take all these science classes, find a passion for medicine, volunteer, rock the MCAT, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and pursue 7-11 years post-undergraduate education while making $50k half of that time.

It's such a ridiculously long, expensive, and mentally and emotionally taxing road I doubt people just jump into this because they think, "hey, great job security!" This is especially true with the hazy future the ACA will create.

There are many grad students who worked in the lab that are pursuing medical school because of the terrible job market. When you are in your 20's and making low 30K figures, taking all those years of schooling for a more lucrative job that pays $150,000++ is very appealing

 

[DrEnderW]

No lab job will pay substantially more than that ever, regardless of economy...

I work in a lab and make a little more than that now. It would be absurd for a tech to make grater than 40k ever. If they are grad students, its a training program like med school and they wont be making 30k after obtaining a job post-graduation. You make minus 70k a year as a doctor in training. Most people in that situation are already on the PhD or physician route. I'm more referencing alternative careers to biomedical sciences coming into medicine.

You have to compare apples to apples. You can't compare someone who would top out at a 30k job intellectually and motivation wise -- it's a generalization but most of these jobs are filled by people that don't have the ambition to become a physician, lawyer, accountant, MBA type job, etc and likely wouldn't gain a med school admission. You have to compare someone leaving a relatively lucrative finance career/major (or something in business, tech, etc) and see if they suddenly flock to med school. I don't think this is the case.

 

[Dr Yiot]

i can agree with that. its definitely a distribution problem. I myself am not too happy about the opening of new schools but my idea was if we need more doctors than we should do it.

 

[darklabel]

We have plenty of doctors, but we don't have enough doctors working in poor communities or rural areas.

Most of the studies regarding this issue say we have a distribution problem; not a supply problem.

The current Unemployment rate for physicians is 0.8% and thats probably just doctors being picky about where to work (structural unemployment and can possibly could also include physicians in Rads and Path that seem to be having a glut issue). Healthy unemployment is ~5% so I don't think we have "plenty" of doctors. Hell I live in a major metropolitan area and for my grandmother to see a specialist takes a few weeks and are usually booked well in advance.

Source: http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/04/news/economy/jobs-lowest-unemployment/index.html

 

[nysegop]

I'm pretty sure the entire world has a shortage of doctors. They are really expensive to train, and it takes a long time. Compared to other countries, we're pretty well off. We can still do better.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm pretty sure the entire world has a shortage of doctors. They are really expensive to train, and it takes a long time. Compared to other countries, we're pretty well off. We can still do better.

Some places have a lot, some very few. Doctors training costs can be variable.

 

[nysegop]

Some places have a lot, some very few. Doctors training costs can be variable.

But usually it costs more to have higher trained doctors.

 

[Dr Dazzle]

The focus needs to be on increasing pressure for residencies for all the new grads! If not, we are all gonna be like law school grads.....screwed with insane debt and no job!

 

[TriagePreMed]

The focus needs to be on increasing pressure for residencies for all the new grads! If not, we are all gonna be like law school grads.....screwed with insane debt and no job!

There are enough residencies that get taken by Caribbean graduates. Don't count on the government opening new non-primary care residencies when that's the shortage that needs to be met.

 

[HalfListic]

From what I've heard, some DO schools are getting more Carribean-esque by having huge incoming classes having a markedly noticable attrition rate per semester and a struggle to find enough clerkships for whomever is left.

Say there's a bar that's set where there are 15 people applying for every seat and it goes down to 8 or 9 applicants per seat by having a much larger class size. Wouldn't this mean that more people are being accepted and, therefore, more emphasis on students just being in a certain range? The 250+ students accepted are then herded into lecture halls that look like you could host the Superbowl in. I would say that, overall, DO school admissions are more lenient now knowing that they'll get at least a year or two of tuition out of you before kicking you out.

I'm sure that sleep deprivation has hampered my logic to some extent, but that's what I've come up with.

No. I guess I can give you some slack since you say that you are sleep deprived. But once you've had some shut eye, get a gatorade and come back to explain why you are so off on this post.

Feel free to back up any of your inaccurate assertions here i.e.:

-DO schools are getting larger and "Caribbean-esque"? Are you saying that DO schools are larger, on average, than MD schools? Would you call IU or UTSW Caribbean-esque? Using that kind of language is just cheaply passive aggressive at best and the claim is also incorrect. DO schools are smaller than MD schools on average and get no where near the numbers of Caribbean schools. Do you not know how many students get accepted down there?

-DO schools are "having a markedly noticable attrition rate". First, this sentence doesn't really even make sense, but Ill guess that you mean that there is a marked increase in attrition rate? If thats what you are trying to say, then why didn't you try to back it up. Attrition rates for US medical students is so low, its barely a statistic...MD or DO. Try again. (and again, the Caribbean is a different story, with some scary numbers. or Chiro school...but not medical schools)

-"DO school admissions are more lenient now knowing that they'll get at least a year or two of tuition out of you before kicking you out." Really? DO school admissions are getting more lenient? No, this is barely worth throwing out, but its so simple to see that the admissions stats increase for DO (and MD) students each year. I dont know what else to tell you...is your Google broken, perhaps?


So, basically, you entire premise is off, erroneous, biased, etc.

Feel free to try and keep things civil this time, or not. The more insulting you are, the more marginalized your argument becomes.

 

[babdoc]

The focus needs to be on increasing pressure for residencies for all the new grads! If not, we are all gonna be like law school grads.....screwed with insane debt and no job!

There is still a sizable surplus of residency spots for US grads, which is why those from outside the US are able to match. However the AAMC supposedly predicts that there will be a shortage by the end of the decade (though I've only seen this in the news, not the primary source). The foreign grads would get pushed out first and US grads will take more primary care spots to "avoid" going unmatched.

It would behoove the LCME and AOA to lobby congress to fund residency spots to at least equal need and US graduation rate as well as not to accredit too many spots. It's always nice to have a little need for doctors. ;-) Though the crunch seems imminent, I don't see these accreditation orgs following the JDs' example.

 

[user3]

No. I guess I can give you some slack since you say that you are sleep deprived. But once you've had some shut eye, get a gatorade and come back to explain why you are so off on this post.

Feel free to back up any of your inaccurate assertions here i.e.:

-DO schools are getting larger and "Caribbean-esque"? Are you saying that DO schools are larger, on average, than MD schools? Would you call IU or UTSW Caribbean-esque? Using that kind of language is just cheaply passive aggressive at best and the claim is also incorrect. DO schools are smaller than MD schools on average and get no where near the numbers of Caribbean schools. Do you not know how many students get accepted down there?

-DO schools are "having a markedly noticable attrition rate". First, this sentence doesn't really even make sense, but Ill guess that you mean that there is a marked increase in attrition rate? If thats what you are trying to say, then why didn't you try to back it up. Attrition rates for US medical students is so low, its barely a statistic...MD or DO. Try again. (and again, the Caribbean is a different story, with some scary numbers. or Chiro school...but not medical schools)

-"DO school admissions are more lenient now knowing that they'll get at least a year or two of tuition out of you before kicking you out." Really? DO school admissions are getting more lenient? No, this is barely worth throwing out, but its so simple to see that the admissions stats increase for DO (and MD) students each year. I dont know what else to tell you...is your Google broken, perhaps?


So, basically, you entire premise is off, erroneous, biased, etc.

Feel free to try and keep things civil this time, or not. The more insulting you are, the more marginalized your argument becomes.

but an MD school will have far more resources for their students than a DO school of the same size. UTSW/IU and AZCOM/Western have more or less, comparable class sizes for example. However, I will bet that UTSW and IU have far more faculty per student, clinical rotations with much more stability and consistency in quality, tons of opportunities in-house for research, great connections and advising for practically every specialty, etc. Any time a new MD school opens or an MD school expands class sizes, they will take much more seriously the task of making sure all relevant needs for students are met.

On the DO side, schools regularly enroll huge numbers of students or make huge class size increases without attempting to have anywhere near the support and resources (especially for years 3-4) of comparably sized MD schools (for example, the year AZCOM raised its class size from 150 to 250). This is partly due to DO schools being very tuition-driven...like caribbean schools.

 

[HalfListic]

but an MD school will have far more resources for their students than a DO school of the same size. UTSW/IU and AZCOM/Western have more or less, comparable class sizes for example. However, I will bet that UTSW and IU have far more faculty per student, clinical rotations with much more stability and consistency in quality, tons of opportunities in-house for research, great connections and advising for practically every specialty, etc. Any time a new MD school opens or an MD school expands class sizes, they will take much more seriously the task of making sure all relevant needs for students are met.

On the DO side, schools regularly enroll huge numbers of students or make huge class size increases without attempting to have anywhere near the support and resources (especially for years 3-4) of comparably sized MD schools (for example, the year AZCOM raised its class size from 150 to 250). This is partly due to DO schools being very tuition-driven...like caribbean schools.

Lol...nice try JGimps other account.

Again, this is barely worth debating...

US medical schools, MD and DO, are
Very different than the huge Caribbean schools. You can sit here and guess about things all you want, but your guesses aren't correct.


Don't know what to tell ya. And if you don't think all medical school are cost driven, you live in a fun little world, haha.


DO schools and MD schools do have differences on average, but they are almost all the opposite of what you are trying to argue here.

What I wonder is where does the motivation come from to make up stories? Boredom?

Anyway, yay for SDN "facts"!!

 

[TriagePreMed]

I have to go with HalfListic on this one, and it's not due to some inherent bias that I have toward supporting DO schools. There's simply no evidence at all for these things "user3" guesses must be the case. Anyone who has been to undergrad knows that the quality of their undergrad is largely bull**** made up by the fact that the school has huge endowments and research. Many of us went to these top 50 schools where we sat in a classroom with 300 other kids and got to meet a TA instead of the professor. Then our great opportunities for research were really low level stuff.

Having had an education at a top 50 school and been to a community college, I can say I definitely got a better education at the community college. You can argue all you want that classes were easier due to the curve, which I definitely disagree for my college, but the fact is that I had more contact with the professor who wanted to be there to teach me, not as something he or she'd been forced to do to do research at the institution.

As for rotations, I have a feeling that's bull**** as well. As a med student, you need to have a very strong background on the common illnesses and common treatments, which is something that almost any program can offer. Going to UCSF or Harvard and learning about diseases that affect only 1 in 10 million is good knowledge, but it's rarely applicable.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Being taught surgery by a nurse is also fun.

 

[HalfListic]

Being taught surgery by a nurse is also fun.

🙄

n=1.

Not that I dont believe the dude, but also...he's doing just fine. Didn't he just match EM or Rads or Gas...something like that.

Im sure low tier MD schools have their horror stories and urban legends as well

 

[WillburCobb]

I've always been hesitant to agree with this statement, although I hear it very frequently and from reputable sources.

It's just hard to believe business/econ/finance/liberal arts majors are forecasting a hurting job market and decide to take all these science classes, find a passion for medicine, volunteer, rock the MCAT, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, and pursue 7-11 years post-undergraduate education while making $50k half of that time.

It's such a ridiculously long, expensive, and mentally and emotionally taxing road I doubt people just jump into this because they think, "hey, great job security!" This is especially true with the hazy future the ACA will create.

I first heard of this trend from a CT surgeon who chose to pursue medicine on whim in the 70's because of the sh***y economy (he'd been accepted to law school at an Ivy, but the job market for medicine just seemed better in terms of job security and salary). I looked into it and med school admissions data does flow VERY closely with economic trends. Also, nearly all of the non-trads where I did my undergrad came back to school for this EXACT reason.

 

[user3]

Being taught surgery by a nurse is also fun.

 

[Dmr6186]

🙄

n=1.

Not that I dont believe the dude, but also...he's doing just fine. Didn't he just match EM or Rads or Gas...something like that.

Im sure low tier MD schools have their horror stories and urban legends as well

EM/IM residency.

 

[IslandStyle808]

The term shortage isn't specific enough. We have maldistribution.

This. People dont seem to understand this

Bingo

 

[IslandStyle808]

There is an incentive: I believe rural jobs almost always pay more. As someone who has lived in a small town for his entire life, living in a small town sucks. You can't force educated 30 something professionals into small towns no matter how hard you try.

This is becoming less true because of the lower reimbursements. I too lived in a rural area and I have watched docs come and go. And of course now they are going more than coming.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

🙄

n=1.

Not that I dont believe the dude, but also...he's doing just fine. Didn't he just match EM or Rads or Gas...something like that.

Im sure low tier MD schools have their horror stories and urban legends as well

Regardless, medical school students have stated before, going to an established school has it's perks.

 

[HalfListic]

Regardless, medical school students have stated before, going to an established school has it's perks.

Going to a good/well run/well connected/well funded school has its perks. Agreed

 

[HalfListic]

This is becoming less true because of the lower reimbursements. I too lived in a rural area and I have watched docs come and go. And of course now they are going more than coming.

Not sure where you heard this (seems like you might just be going from what you are seeing in your town) but the opposite is true.

More jobs are needed in rural and more hospitals are getting on board with big salaries and student debt payment than the past. It's just supply and demand (due to uneven distribution as was mentioned before).

This info comes from MGMA

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Going to a good/well run/well connected/well funded school has its perks. Agreed

Along with this we also need to agree that a few new DO schools are not this and effectively ( at least in my opinion) ill fit to train physicians. Sure, if every new DO school was an MUCOM or an ACOM or LMU-DCOM things would be fine, but they are not.

 

[HalfListic]

Along with this we also need to agree that a few new DO schools are not this and effectively ( at least in my opinion) ill fit to train physicians. Sure, if every new DO school was an MUCOM or an ACOM or LMU-DCOM things would be fine, but they are not.

Im sure its true that there is a varying degree of quality with schools.

Im glad that GME will all be dually accredited in due time since that where the real training comes...but yes, Im sure you have a point there with a school or two being behind where they should be in standards and resources.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Im sure its true that there is a varying degree of quality with schools.

Im glad that GME will all be dually accredited in due time since that where the real training comes...but yes, Im sure you have a point there with a school or two being behind where they should be in standards and resources.

Next stop: Dual LCME accreditation.

 

[HalfListic]

Next stop: Dual LCME accreditation.

yep, that has my vote

 

[JGimpel]

but an MD school will have far more resources for their students than a DO school of the same size. UTSW/IU and AZCOM/Western have more or less, comparable class sizes for example. However, I will bet that UTSW and IU have far more faculty per student, clinical rotations with much more stability and consistency in quality, tons of opportunities in-house for research, great connections and advising for practically every specialty, etc. Any time a new MD school opens or an MD school expands class sizes, they will take much more seriously the task of making sure all relevant needs for students are met.

On the DO side, schools regularly enroll huge numbers of students or make huge class size increases without attempting to have anywhere near the support and resources (especially for years 3-4) of comparably sized MD schools (for example, the year AZCOM raised its class size from 150 to 250). This is partly due to DO schools being very tuition-driven...like caribbean schools.

User3 has the right idea, based on his research and experience. Even when I block out HL's stuff I still have to read it as someone else answers it, but to each their own and I can base my opinion on what I've seen with my own eyes of many feeder schools sending students and Interns into a GME program, sleep deprived or not. One can not just cry hearsay on anything that doesn't have a pub link behind it. If you're [HL] so quick to basically throw out my whole post, you could post some stuff out of the MSAR, FREIDA, etc. that shows that my generalizations are unfounded. Bigger schools often suffer from growing pains with regard to staff and support issues and this is definitely more of the case in DO schools.

Good to see you [HL] made it to med school; now try to offer more of the experience from your one or two years of didactics and leave the experiential talk to those that actually have some to base their opinions on. By the way, how is the staffing and support at your DO school? Clerkships? Class size? With regard to history on posts, I pose an idea with my own experience in an area to back it up and you feel the need to question it when you have little to no experience in the matter. This is indeed HL history repeating itself. I'll go with experience and training instead of the lack thereof and I'm sure that I'm not the only one of the people coming to SDN for information that thinks this way.

Enjoy posting some witty comeback deriding my entire post again, it seems like you've finished your studying for today. You'll eventually have to spend more time studying for Step 1 that you'll take in a year, but do check in with the forum here for support from time to time.
😍

 

[sylvanthus]

Hah just saw this.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Hah just saw this.

You are a classic for all time.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Idk about DO schools, but MD schools are getting so much more competitive. My state MD school's minimum gpa is a 3.4 science and cumulative and a 28 MCAT. Those are competitive scores at DO schools.

 

[FakeEmpire]

I agree. Show me the facts, show me the numbers. While some of the things gimpel says may be based on real experiences, that doesn't mean it's a trend. The argument is getting close to a red herring fallacy. DO school aren't more competitive.....because they are turning into Caribbean Schools!!!

I have to go with HalfListic on this one, and it's not due to some inherent bias that I have toward supporting DO schools. There's simply no evidence at all for these things "user3" guesses must be the case. Anyone who has been to undergrad knows that the quality of their undergrad is largely bull**** made up by the fact that the school has huge endowments and research. Many of us went to these top 50 schools where we sat in a classroom with 300 other kids and got to meet a TA instead of the professor. Then our great opportunities for research were really low level stuff.

Having had an education at a top 50 school and been to a community college, I can say I definitely got a better education at the community college. You can argue all you want that classes were easier due to the curve, which I definitely disagree for my college, but the fact is that I had more contact with the professor who wanted to be there to teach me, not as something he or she'd been forced to do to do research at the institution.

As for rotations, I have a feeling that's bull**** as well. As a med student, you need to have a very strong background on the common illnesses and common treatments, which is something that almost any program can offer. Going to UCSF or Harvard and learning about diseases that affect only 1 in 10 million is good knowledge, but it's rarely applicable.

 

[TriagePreMed]

User3 has the right idea, based on his research and experience. Even when I block out HL's stuff I still have to read it as someone else answers it, but to each their own and I can base my opinion on what I've seen with my own eyes of many feeder schools sending students and Interns into a GME program, sleep deprived or not. One can not just cry hearsay on anything that doesn't have a pub link behind it. If you're [HL] so quick to basically throw out my whole post, you could post some stuff out of the MSAR, FREIDA, etc. that shows that my generalizations are unfounded. Bigger schools often suffer from growing pains with regard to staff and support issues and this is definitely more of the case in DO schools.

You hear that, HL? You better come up with some evidence or just accept his subjective experience and hearsay with no evidence. This dichotomy is the only acceptable way.

 

[JGimpel]

Caribbean schools take in a bunch of people, get their tuition money for a few semesters, then dismiss them for various reasons. I'm saying that the DO schools are beginning to look the same way with the class sizes approaching that of those schools and lack of support in didactics, clerkships and beyond coming to light. Students without enough support would have a higher chance of doing poorly, whether it ultimately leads to them being dismissed or narrows down the career options for them as a result. I'm entitled to my opinion and the fact-check police needs to take a break from trying to suppress the free exchange of ideas.

So it looks like we've got a few DO students [HL, etc.] that think that everything is fine with our educational system. These guys could be plants by the AOA; anything's possible on SDN. With such a vigorous defense you'd have to wonder what the motive truly is. This thread will probably end up like the other ones where, after all is truly said and done, people post to ask questions only of those with actual experience in the matter being discussed. In the interim, you may want to change your description to reflect that you're actually med students now to avoid confusion for other members.

You've got a resident that somehow has experience to the contrary of those with dissenting opinions and seeks to improve the profession that DOs have worked so hard to build that sees discrepancies in overall training and assessment of its students. These posts do state an opinion based on my own experience. Those that disagree may be trying to block awareness to a growing reality and discourage others to research this and act upon it for themselves; to what end? Not all of us are willing to overlook problems and lay down and take this. It appears that some will, just for the sake of argument. I could have sworn that I saw somebody compare DO schools to low-tier MD schools; seriously?

Anyone else currently involved in our [DO, not MD] educational system that thinks it's doing well or not is welcome to post their opinion. SDN is not like Jeopardy, where there are a bunch of people that must double and triple check everything that is put up for the competition, especially those opinions of its members; it's NOT a competition but rather a place for people to share thoughts in the hopes that others may benefit from their experience. I think this site was formed for the latter, but I don't have any links to back it up.

 

[mmbrink6]

Next stop: Dual LCME accreditation.

As in MD/DO becoming one in the same?

 

[HalfListic]

User3 has the right idea, based on his research and experience. Even when I block out HL's stuff I still have to read it as someone else answers it, but to each their own and I can base my opinion on what I've seen with my own eyes of many feeder schools sending students and Interns into a GME program, sleep deprived or not. One can not just cry hearsay on anything that doesn't have a pub link behind it. If you're [HL] so quick to basically throw out my whole post, you could post some stuff out of the MSAR, FREIDA, etc. that shows that my generalizations are unfounded. Bigger schools often suffer from growing pains with regard to staff and support issues and this is definitely more of the case in DO schools.

Good to see you [HL] made it to med school; now try to offer more of the experience from your one or two years of didactics and leave the experiential talk to those that actually have some to base their opinions on. By the way, how is the staffing and support at your DO school? Clerkships? Class size? With regard to history on posts, I pose an idea with my own experience in an area to back it up and you feel the need to question it when you have little to no experience in the matter. This is indeed HL history repeating itself. I'll go with experience and training instead of the lack thereof and I'm sure that I'm not the only one of the people coming to SDN for information that thinks this way.

Enjoy posting some witty comeback deriding my entire post again, it seems like you've finished your studying for today. You'll eventually have to spend more time studying for Step 1 that you'll take in a year, but do check in with the forum here for support from time to time.
😍

LOL, you had to block me out? Why not just try to support your claims or disprove mine. I have always been more than civil with you, without receiving the same in return.

I'll just note that you have, once again asked me for sources without having ANY yourself. Gimp history repeating itself I guess?

Well, I at least thank you for calling me witty.


But, to show you I have no hard feelings, I'll give you a very simple support of my point, which also counters yours, and give you a source:

Your point...DO schools are getting easier to get in to. My point, DO schools (and MD schools) are getting more competitive to get in to. This is most objectively seen by matriculation stats, which have gone up every year...this is even with several new schools opening up, and having a relatively small number of DO schools. This should have shown a decrease in overall numbers, but they have maintained an increase. Looking at some of the individual school numbers and you get even more dramatic increased competitiveness.

Heres a source for you:

CIB 2014



And, if you really want to know about my school, things are looking pretty positive:

class size: mid hundreds
faculty: 5 of the 20 writer/reviewers for COMLEX, some of whom will sit on the joint USMLE board as well. great ratio, University affiliation.
facilities: the bomb. Lots of tech, access to a surgical lab that has a Da Vinci, sim lab (with sim man 3G's, Sim MOM, child, etc, more cadavers than most schools, MD or DO, etc...)
Main Teaching Hospital: Over 800 beds, Ranked Nationally in 5 specialties. Plenty of other great hospitals, but now it just feels like bragging.



Anyway...you are biased. You might not know it, but you really are. There are great MD and DO schools out there. There are a few poor schools as well. But, in reality, no one really cares if you are DO or MD...you make it such a big deal here, but it doesnt exist in the real world.

If you really had a good point, you would just state it, and not constantly refer to your age or "experience". Its the internet...you could be a 15 yr old in your mothers basement...just make a point and back it up.

You hear that, HL? You better come up with some evidence or just accept his subjective experience and hearsay with no evidence. This dichotomy is the only acceptable way.

Hang on...I'm checking all the sources JGimp posted to support his obviously biased claims:

"404 no sources found, only hypocrisy"

😀

 

[NontradCA]

I don't get it? Why not look at trends in number of applicants to matriculates and their stats? They're both going up. /thread

 

[NontradCA]

Of course it is becoming more competitive, how is that not obvious?

This? As far as the Caribbean analogy, what else can we say. It's the same thing people bring up every week here.