Are Podiatry Schools increasing class size?

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smurfeyD said:
Okay.... thanks for pointing out the obvious... i am going to say again, they are trying to accept students as soon as they can.
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I don't know about that. It took more than 2 weeks to hear from Scholl even though they promised to reply within 2-3 days. They replied with acceptance After I emailed them twice asking about it.

If they were trying to accept sooner, they would not take more than 2 weeks.
 
PashaOdesit said:
I don't know about that. It took more than 2 weeks to hear from Scholl even though they promised to reply within 2-3 days. They replied with acceptance After I emailed them twice asking about it.

If they were trying to accept sooner, they would not take more than 2 weeks.
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Theres literally nothing to argue. Schools will accept students they want sooner rather than later. I dont understand how you can argue that unless you just like coming on here to argue for kicks and giggles
 
smurfeyD said:
Theres literally nothing to argue. Schools will accept students they want sooner rather than later. I dont understand how you can argue that unless you just like coming on here to argue for kicks and giggles
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I don't want to argue. I was just trying to understand what you mean and share my understanding. Like you said there is nothing really to argue about this topic. I was just trying to understand how practically they accept students sooner.
 
PashaOdesit said:
I don't want to argue. I was just trying to understand what you mean and share my understanding. Like you said there is nothing really to argue about this topic. I was just trying to understand how practically they accept students sooner.
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I was accepted to Midwestern a lot sooner than I anticipated so I asked one of the guys in admissions that I know why it was so much sooner this year and he said that last year they sent out interview invites towards the end of the year and a lot of the invitees didnt interview because they had already been accepted and paid a deposit for another school. So he said they were trying to send out acceptances as soon as they knew they wanted someone, to be sure the same thing didnt happen.
After he said that, I assumed it was the same for the other schools. This is getting off topic, so back to the original post; Idk if any are increasing besides Midwestern (going from 30 to 40 next year and then 50 the following). And if they did increase, I dont know how thatd be negative for the profession
 
It’s negative on two fronts:

1) residency shortage. If they don’t increase residency numbers, but increase graduates, well......

2) there really isn’t a need for the amount of podiatrists graduating. The market is absorbing in podiatrists at an ok rate. More graduates mean a more flooded market.

smurfeyD said:
I was accepted to Midwestern a lot sooner than I anticipated so I asked one of the guys in admissions that I know why it was so much sooner this year and he said that last year they sent out interview invites towards the end of the year and a lot of the invitees didnt interview because they had already been accepted and paid a deposit for another school. So he said they were trying to send out acceptances as soon as they knew they wanted someone, to be sure the same thing didnt happen.
After he said that, I assumed it was the same for the other schools. This is getting off topic, so back to the original post; Idk if any are increasing besides Midwestern (going from 30 to 40 next year and then 50 the following). And if they did increase, I dont know how thatd be negative for the profession
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GypsyHummus said:
It’s negative on two fronts:

1) residency shortage. If they don’t increase residency numbers, but increase graduates, well......

2) there really isn’t a need for the amount of podiatrists graduating. The market is absorbing in podiatrists at an ok rate. More graduates mean a more flooded market.
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What schools are increasing besides Midwestern??
 
GypsyHummus said:
It’s negative on two fronts:

1) residency shortage. If they don’t increase residency numbers, but increase graduates, well......

2) there really isn’t a need for the amount of podiatrists graduating. The market is absorbing in podiatrists at an ok rate. More graduates mean a more flooded market.
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When it comes to podiatry and job security/ income you definitely arent getting the best bargain compared to DO/MD friends.
Its alot like dentistry or optometry.
If you went to an MD program in the US you could sleep day and night, just pass and get atleast a family medicine residency and make just as much as a podiatrist with the opportunities to work at more hospitals and clinics around the country.
That being said the increase in residency numbers and graduates will be proportional (I hope haa)
 
You can look up any Jobs website and see tons of listing begging for Internal Med and Family med doctors.

I think Podiatry, as of right now, is a better gig than Optometry.

I guess it could be worse. Whenever you feel down about being a podiatrist, just go over to the Pharmacy forums. That profession is a trainwreck right now.

IDontHaveAnyFeet said:
When it comes to podiatry and job security/ income you definitely arent getting the best bargain compared to DO/MD friends.
Its alot like dentistry or optometry.
If you went to an MD program in the US you could sleep day and night, just pass and get atleast a family medicine residency and make just as much as a podiatrist with the opportunities to work at more hospitals and clinics around the country.
That being said the increase in residency numbers and graduates will be proportional (I hope haa)
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IDontHaveAnyFeet said:
When it comes to podiatry and job security/ income you definitely arent getting the best bargain compared to DO/MD friends.
Its alot like dentistry or optometry.
If you went to an MD program in the US you could sleep day and night, just pass and get atleast a family medicine residency and make just as much as a podiatrist with the opportunities to work at more hospitals and clinics around the country.
That being said the increase in residency numbers and graduates will be proportional (I hope haa)
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At least podiatrists work less hours in general and do not take calls and do not work nights and weekends and such in general.
 
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PashaOdesit said:
At least podiatrists work less hours in general and do not take calls and do not work nights and weekends and such in general.
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Yeah man Im all for podiatry. Im just saying it doesnt have the luxury of a guaranteed job like MD students basically have. As an MD student once youre in the program, you just have to pass and not murder anyone while in school.
 
Is that the same accrediting body that allowed for the great residency crisis of 2012-2013?


bobtheweazel said:
@GypsyHummus

CPME is allowing a regulated increase in enrollment to match projected residency positions within the coming years. They're not allowing unfettered growth. They're going to be monitoring the situation on a yearly basis and make adjustments as needed.
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GypsyHummus said:
Is that the same accrediting body that allowed for the great residency crisis of 2012-2013?
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The residency crisis happened because of the switch from essentially no standardization of residencies to a standardized 3 year surgical residency which I assume everyone can agree was for the best. Obviously some people got screwed in the process, nobody would deny that. But I don't think it's fair to judge them entirely on not being able to produce 500+ 3 year residency positions overnight out of thin air. Probably any accrediting body would've had trouble pulling that off. And you're well aware that they're also the same accrediting body that then got residency positions up to the level that they're at now, worked most of those who got screwed through the system, and got the new graduate placement rate on par with MD placement rates.

Enviado desde mi Pixel mediante Tapatalk
 
If they didn’t have the foresight to slowly implement the 24 to 36 month residency change, what makes anyone think they have the foresight to project 4 years time to make sure everyone has a residency?

bobtheweazel said:
The residency crisis happened because of the switch from essentially no standardization of residencies to a standardized 3 year surgical residency which I assume everyone can agree was for the best. Obviously some people got screwed in the process, nobody would deny that. But I don't think it's fair to judge them entirely on not being able to produce 500+ 3 year residency positions overnight out of thin air. Probably any accrediting body would've had trouble pulling that off. And you're well aware that they're also the same accrediting body that then got residency positions up to the level that they're at now, worked most of those who got screwed through the system, and got the new graduate placement rate on par with MD placement rates.

Enviado desde mi Pixel mediante Tapatalk
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GypsyHummus said:
If they didn’t have the foresight to slowly implement the 24 to 36 month residency change, what makes anyone think they have the foresight to project 4 years time to make sure everyone has a residency?
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I don't think the MD/DO merge goes without any issues as well.
or if AACOMAS smoothly transitioned from grade replacement to no grade replacement.
 
With the rate DO schools are opening up, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a residency shortage in the near future.

PashaOdesit said:
I don't think the MD/DO merge goes without any issues as well.
or if AACOMAS smoothly transitioned from grade replacement to no grade replacement.
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GypsyHummus said:
With the rate DO schools are opening up, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a residency shortage in the near future.
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Currently there is more or less an excess of residencies for mds and dos within the us: the increase in do schools is going to push foreign grads to the back burner. Yes agreed if it continues for many more years then it could be problematic, but currently a few thousand residencies are given to imgs every year, making it almost a non issue for do /md students for atleast 5 years to come
 
IDontHaveAnyFeet said:
Currently there is more or less an excess of residencies for mds and dos within the us: the increase in do schools is going to push foreign grads to the back burner. Yes agreed if it continues for many more years then it could be problematic, but currently a few thousand residencies are given to imgs every year, making it almost a non issue for do /md students for atleast 5 years to come
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Yes, but not 100% of MD/DO are matched anyways. It' not like all IMGs or FMG are the the bottom of the list. Some of them get a preference and get into good specialties.

I don't think there is an excess if there are thousands unmatched.
 
PashaOdesit said:
Yes, but not 100% of MD/DO are matched anyways. It' not like all IMGs or FMG are the the bottom of the list. Some of them get a preference and get into good specialties.

I don't think there is an excess if there are thousands unmatched.
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Thousands is a huge exaggeration if we are talking per yearly basis of graduating seniors and US students. Roughly 94% of american med students match, about 3-4% more match during the scramble.

There are roughly 18,000 american applicants each year with numbers varying about 500 per year. There are close to 30,000 residency spots.

you are right about not all matching but that has to do with internal issues and choices of specialties .
 
IDontHaveAnyFeet said:
Thousands is a huge exaggeration if we are talking per yearly basis of graduating seniors and US students. Roughly 94% of american med students match, about 3-4% more match during the scramble.

There are roughly 18,000 american applicants each year with numbers varying about 500 per year. There are close to 30,000 residency spots.

you are right about not all matching but that has to do with internal issues and choices of specialties .
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Your numbers are a little wrong especially 18,000 applicants. There are 21,000 MD students only and about 6000 DO. In the future it will be 7000+ for DO.
 
GypsyHummus said:
The difference for pod is we need the whole story because it affects residency. There is like 1 State in the country you are allowed to practice without a residency, and a DPM without residency is worthless.

Dental schools can “get away” luring students in because they don’t have a residency. DO can get away with it because for the moment, if you are not gunning for ENT or something competitive, you can get a FM or IM residency, even at the bottom of your class.

With podiatry, 50 students not matching is a big deal, given the size of the profession. There are what, 500-600 graduating students? 50ish not matching is roughly 10%, and they are all gunning for the same residency choice.
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If you work hard while in school and are a decent person, then you shouldn't have to worry about not getting a residency.
 
Everyone thinks that they are a hard worker and a decent person, even the ones who didn’t get residencies.

Something I have pondered, can people with board failures still get residencies? Like if they failed Boards part 1 twice but eventually passed it.

Packers4lifeDPM said:
If you work hard while in school and are a decent person, then you shouldn't have to worry about not getting a residency.
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GypsyHummus said:
Everyone thinks that they are a hard worker and a decent person, even the ones who didn’t get residencies.

Something I have pondered, can people with board failures still get residencies? Like if they failed Boards part 1 twice but eventually passed it.
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According to the pod I shadowed, approx 70 people go unmatched every year. Way more than 70 people fail boards collectively every year though so its definitely possible
 
Blows my mind how 70 people can go unmatched. That’s a whole class


IDontHaveAnyFeet said:
According to the pod I shadowed, approx 70 people go unmatched every year. Way more than 70 people fail boards collectively every year though so its definitely possible
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GypsyHummus said:
Blows my mind how 70 people can go unmatched. That’s a whole class
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It sucks man but you can definitely find some work in the few states left that allow no residency and keep applying for 2-3 years. If caspr shows that people with a 2.4 gpa get residencies anyone can do it.
But if job security/residency security is what one wants, the MD route is definitely better for it.
 
Important clarification: there are enough for people graduating. There are still people from previous years tying to match. Residencies are barley 1:1. And what heppends when you increase class size and or residencies close?

PashaOdesit said:
how does he know? unless he just gave a rough estimate from years when he was a student.
Current info is that there is enough residencies for everyone.
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DexterMorganSK said:
Posting the past match stats here again for you guys to think this more accurately....

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/PlacementUpdate.pdf
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Do you understand all the numbers though?

I am somewhat confused. It says that there are 617 approved residencies, but only 573 are filled. Then it says there were total of 578 applicants and below says there were 629 applicants.



EDIT: I think I got it. 629 includes 578 from Class of 2017, 30 from last year, 5 from 2015 and 16 from previous years.
 
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PashaOdesit said:
Do you understand all the numbers though?

I am somewhat confused. It says that there are 617 approved residencies, but only 573 are filled. Then it says there were total of 578 applicants and below says there were 629 applicants.
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So on June 30th, there were 573 active CPME positions.
For the class of 2017, out of 578, 573 matched.
If you see the bottom, the prior year applicants/to be placed, there are a total of 51 applicants, plus 5 from 2017 that didn't match= 56 that did not match in 2017.
Some of these applicants did match though, you can see if you follow the link bottom of that page, so maybe around 40+ didn't match and will attempt to match for this cycle.
 
DexterMorganSK said:
So on June 30th, there were 573 active CPME positions.
For the class of 2017, out of 578, 573 matched.
If you see the bottom, the prior year applicants/to be placed, there are a total of 51 applicants, plus 5 from 2017 that didn't match= 56 that did not match in 2017.
Some of these applicants did match though, you can see if you follow the link bottom of that page, so maybe around 40+ didn't match and will attempt to match for this cycle.
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so, if there are 617 approved residencies, why other 44 could not fill the spots?
 
PashaOdesit said:
so, if there are 617 approved residencies, why other 44 could not fill the spots?
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It's probably because those residency positions were not available or were not up to code, or something along these lines and only 573 were ACTIVE for the class of 2017 to apply for and match into.

My hope is that for the class of 2020-22, these active positions will increase more than the applicants applying. The CPME also approves new sites yearly so that should help fill the gap as well.
 
I am a bit. However, there are jobs out there to be found at full time rates, unlike other non MD/DO field like pharmacy and optometry.

As of right now, Podiatry seems to be at the saturation point in supply vs demand and the market seems to be absorbing new graduates slowly. Not fast like MD/DO, and there is no saturation crisis (yet) happening like in pharmacy or optometry.

The main reason is because there are only 9 schools. I think this is critical and why schools shouldn’t increase class size. I think if there were any more schools, it would push pods to a saturation point. Pods retire really late because you can do routine palliative care once your old and can’t do surgery anymore

So in short, keep the grads low, and there shouldn’t be problems. NO MORE SCHOOLS, and no more increase in class size.

footpainhealer said:
Even if everyone gets a residency......it seems that there might not be enough jobs out there for EVERYONE.
Anyone concerned about that?
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GypsyHummus said:
I am a bit. However, there are jobs out there to be found at full time rates, unlike other non MD/DO field like pharmacy and optometry.

As of right now, Podiatry seems to be at the saturation point in supply vs demand and the market seems to be absorbing new graduates slowly. Not fast like MD/DO, and there is no saturation crisis (yet) happening like in pharmacy or optometry.

The main reason is because there are only 9 schools. I think this is critical and why schools shouldn’t increase class size. I think if there were any more schools, it would push pods to a saturation point. Pods retire really late because you can do routine palliative care once your old and can’t do surgery anymore

So in short, keep the grads low, and there shouldn’t be problems. NO MORE SCHOOLS, and no more increase in class size.
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why are you concerned?

You are going to be a DO.
 
GypsyHummus said:
I am a bit. However, there are jobs out there to be found at full time rates, unlike other non MD/DO field like pharmacy and optometry.

As of right now, Podiatry seems to be at the saturation point in supply vs demand and the market seems to be absorbing new graduates slowly. Not fast like MD/DO, and there is no saturation crisis (yet) happening like in pharmacy or optometry.

The main reason is because there are only 9 schools. I think this is critical and why schools shouldn’t increase class size. I think if there were any more schools, it would push pods to a saturation point. Pods retire really late because you can do routine palliative care once your old and can’t do surgery anymore

So in short, keep the grads low, and there shouldn’t be problems. NO MORE SCHOOLS, and no more increase in class size.
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I posted this in a different forum but thought you guys should see this.Saturation is already being projected:

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...ctions/chiropractorspodiatristsapril2015_.pdf

Not sure how accurate this is,but this whole discussion plus this projection does cause me some pause in dedicating seven years of my life to this field.
 
GypsyHummus said:
I am a bit. However, there are jobs out there to be found at full time rates, unlike other non MD/DO field like pharmacy and optometry.

As of right now, Podiatry seems to be at the saturation point in supply vs demand and the market seems to be absorbing new graduates slowly. Not fast like MD/DO, and there is no saturation crisis (yet) happening like in pharmacy or optometry.

The main reason is because there are only 9 schools. I think this is critical and why schools shouldn’t increase class size. I think if there were any more schools, it would push pods to a saturation point. Pods retire really late because you can do routine palliative care once your old and can’t do surgery anymore

So in short, keep the grads low, and there shouldn’t be problems. NO MORE SCHOOLS, and no more increase in class size.
Click to expand...

Tbh I’m one of those people who DONT think everyone should get a residency. Someone shouldn’t be a Pod if they can’t pass boards, do well academically, or communicate well. I bet those are the majority of people not finding residencies. I’m ok with that

I think we’re all a little bit spoiled to be honest. We’re comparing MD/DO to Pod when in reality finding a job as a Pod is probably a close second meaning it’s still easier than really 99 percent of other professions/graduates/undergrads. Maybe not 99 percent but the VAST majority. We’re really sitting hear arguing over some percentiles and residency spots. It’s nonsense and a waste of time really just work hard and opportunities will come.
 
Dochopeful13 said:
I posted this in a different forum but thought you guys should see this.Saturation is already being projected:

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...ctions/chiropractorspodiatristsapril2015_.pdf

Not sure how accurate this is,but this whole discussion plus this projection does cause me some pause in dedicating seven years of my life to this field.
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They also say this:
Trends in RN Supply and Demand
At the national level, the projected growth in RN supply (39 percent growth) is expected to exceed growth in demand (28 percent growth) resulting in a projected excess of about 293,800 RN FTEs in 2030.

So, nursing will be oversupplied by 300,000? come on. Nurses are in high demand everywhere. Every square mile in the country is hiring for nurses.

In contrast, I hear that there is high shortage of nurses and demand for nurses will be even greater by 2025 due to baby boomers.
 
PashaOdesit said:
Not just 7 years, the rest of one's life.
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You are right about that. Podiatry is a great field. I would love to be a podiatrist. However, all of this gives me pause. I do think though that podiatry will never be completely saturated, but you may need to go to rural areas to find jobs in the future.
 
Dochopeful13 said:
You are right about that. Podiatry is a great field. I would love to be a podiatrist. However, all of this gives me pause. I do think though that podiatry will never be completely saturated, but you may need to go to rural areas to find jobs in the future.
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You are away that goes for practically any job or profession correct? Even other specialties of medicine it happens more often than you’d think
 
med2345 said:
You are away that goes for practically any job or profession correct? Even other specialties of medicine it happens more often than you’d think
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You are right to an extent. However, do you think a newly minted cardiologist cannot find a decent paying job in NYC or Chicago? They would not need to go to rural North Dakota to find a high paying job.
 
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