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I am TOTALLY kidding....
AMMD said:23 year old Fair and handsome doctor settled in the 'states' seeks a beautiful Brahmin girl from a good family who should be:
1. a doctor
2. Fair and Beautiful
3. able to cook/clean
4. Fair and Beautiful
5. Love domesticity
6. Fair and Beautiful
7. Knit
8 Fair and Beautiful
Should be willing to have children right away.
Please send 'biodata' and 'photos' to listed address
Dont these personal's piss you off? I cant believe so many people still do this $hi!
DoctorMalki said:
entsworld said:old indian mentality
white = good, washed with milk = fair
rich people used to take baths in milk or something, maybe it was royalty, and so there's some subconscious association with fair = rich = good person.
at least, that's my analysis.
JattMed said:The reason that most cultures ranging from Southern Europe, North Africa, West/South Asia (Middle East to India) and Asia/East Asia prefer lighter skin tones is due to economics.
It is a perception that the darker you are the more time you spend outdoors as a laborer etc thus you are not as well off as a lighter person.
Sound silly? Yes, but that is the warped mentality held by many however there is a teeny tiny grain of truth to it.
In Greece the women working the vineyards and olive plantations will wrap themselves from head to foot in clothing to hide an exposed area of skin from the sun.This is done in an effort to avoid any darkening of the skin from excessive UV and IR exposure.
Similar things are seen in other parts of the world.
In most cultures fairness is a presumed 'good' quality to have, even in Western lore........'mirror mirror on the wall......who is the fairest of them all?...'
Anyways skin color is only skin deep as testified to by the various gene studies done recently, it appears all humanity shares 99.7% or so of their genome.
However such things will never dissuade a majority of people as we after all are visual beings. If we were blind everything and everyone would be black!
I will speak for myself, being considered 'fair' by Indian standards, I am constantly asked if I am a Greek, an Italian or a Spaniard and it gets rather annoying.
I feel 'safer' in the summers when I can get a little color on me.
I remember one time I was actually in a Religious Studies course that focused on Hinduism. I was rather 'annoying' to the professor and in that class I was sitting with a group of Indians (by ethnicity) of various shades of color.
They thought I was some white guy or a mix of some sort.
I was like man people really do base your identity on color (even gradations of color, I am not white/pink but white/olive toned).
So yeah it seems that being of a certain ethnic origin people tend to focus in on skin tone more keenly than others.
I also have to mention that I heard a Chinese friend's mother say that the daughter should avoid the sun or she will be mistaken for a Vietnamese.
I was shocked.
I focussed on some Chinese girls at uni for a bit and was amazed at how a significant number of them would shield their faces from sunlight with binders or anything in hand.
Amazing stuff.
I mean let's face it, an individual will always have his or her preferences so is it right to really knock someone for that? It is like saying to someone, you are a bad person for choosing a red car over a blue one. However I do feel it is NOT right to be judging someone based on their color as a group or an individual. Heck I have seen very attractive black women around, and very nasty white ones. Heck I have seen very nasty black women and very attractive white women. I have also met very attractive women that were down-right ugly in terms of their personality and color didnt matter.
entsworld said:wait, before we say prejudice.. does anybody actually follow those checklists? I mean, do people want people to match all of them, or some, or what? 'cause I was just thinking, i can't think of any dad who doesn't think his daughter is fair and lovely and wonderful . I would think people get all sorts of responses, and once they actually meet the people personality and such would play a bigger part then casual readers of the personnel section might think? maybe? hopefully?
Ajay said:First of all I want to point out that there are a number of fathers out there who don't think their daughters are fair, lovely and wonderful.
Secondly, let's pray the husband and wife-to-be are given enough time to get to know one another. But I assume that unless a family is in a state of desperation, it will preclude the undesirable choices based on "biodata". Only the filtered pool is ultimately allowed to demonstrate its personality.
JattMed said:Question to you all: Would any of you consider a 'traditional' arranged marriage, an 'introduced' marriage, a 'love' marriage and would you also consider marrying out of your ethnicity, cultural or religious group?
apgmph said:First of all..."biodata" is the funniest term to me.... I crack up every time I hear my parents say it!! "oh his biodata is looking very good!!"
Anyway, I am an american born indian and find this hilarious. I agree with the previous post that arranged marriages are more introduced nowadays. most of my friends and cousins who have done this had months and months after they met whoever to decide if they wanted to get married. and they meet so many different people in this journey to marriage to see which one they like best. and on top of that, most have long engagements. it's much different than in our parents time. my parent knew each other for 2 weeks before they got married!!! I could NEVER do that...
Back to the question posed above from JattMed.... I am a married woman...and it was a "love" marriage. I have nothing against an arranged/introduced marriage. I was completely mentally prepared for that until I met my husband. My parents were just happy he was indian!! I don't have anything against interracial/intercultural marriage as well. If you're happy...go for it. There is nothing better in this world than to be in love! I personally would not have done it because even though I am very american...I treasure my indianness too much. I think it's just too different sometimes and I wouldn't know how to raise my kids. But, I've known many people who are doing it and they make it work. So, whatever floats your boat I guess.
Ajay said:I agree that it's difficult to determine when racism is at work unless we have some quantifiably measurable variable. At the same time, we mustn't euphemize the 'discrimination' by calling it mere personal preference. Perhaps it is apt to call it 'bias'.
JattMed said:Or like I said, predilection.....................
JattMed said:Predilection implies 'bias'.
AMMD said:btw, maybe we should really dedicate a thread to discuss some of the issues of dating/ relationships on this forum... what do you guys think?
AMMD said:I am an Indian who was born and raised outside India and migrated to the US at the age of 14. As a person who has come to the conclusion that I am never going to find an Indian girl, I am all for interracial marriages.
Although a lot of arranged marriages these days are more of a screened dating leading to marriage scenarios, I have to shamefully point out that there are a plethora of families who still do it the "old fashioned way"... skin color, cast, horoscope based with little or no "courtship" period.
Personally, I really don?t know why we are still so stuck to the cast $hi!, As far as I am concerned, this is a dark thread that is woven really deeply into the fabric of our society... even the educated and so called "liberal" indians who have had the opportunity to travel the world, follow it. Bottom line... as opposed to the western/ Anglo-Saxon cultures, ours is fundamentally a hierarchal and 'face value' based one. I really dont know when this will change, all I can control is the environment around me... none of my relatives are allowed to talk about jaat/dharm negatively in my presence!
btw, maybe we should really dedicate a thread to discuss some of the issues of dating/ relationships on this forum... what do you guys think?
U4iA said:One of the main reasons organized religion exists is to instill social order. The "caste" system was made to bring order to people who were all of one religion. In other parts of the world, there were many branches of the same religion or many religions all together that were in constant conflict. the people of these conflicting religions viewed themselves as superior to the other religions that surrounded them. Sometimes to the point that if you did not agree with their superiority in the form of conversion you would not be provided with something necessary for survival (food or water) or worse, you were killed, or your people waged war against. In such times, the caste system does not seem to be a poor alternative.
Now I can't speak for the people that you know, but no individual I have met takes the caste system literally. Everyone I have spoken to understands that it was a tool necessary back in the day but now has been replaced with more effective powertools (one could argue that the corruption in indian government isn't a step forward, but at least it's organized and not through religion). The differences in caste for many are lifestyle differences (vegetarian vs. non-veg, etc). Today, the parents I know who look to assist their children in marriage are much more worried if you will marry out of religion (in which case, according to their argument you would have very few similarities when raising children, etc) than marrying out of caste. The caste systems is not as deeply woven as you may think. It just takes time for people to stop using their old tools and get used to new ones...
Ajay said:Not a bad idea as long as it doesn't degenerate into a dating service. Go for it - start the thread; let's see who writes!
AMMD said:Like i said it would be an open forum to discuss the issues surrounding this topic. If posters feel like they want to take it further its their business... but first I want to see what some of the female posters have to say. Since this thread has already reached its second page, a lot of people may not be reading it... nonetheless, if anyone has opinons, please post.
Peeshee said:Hi, as a non-Indian, I am just curious about the Indian men (that were brought up in India at least during childhood-teenage years) that find themselves a girl they like (whether she be Indian or non -Indian), and it is not an arranged situation.
Do the men usually still think of this situation in terms of marriage, meaning if they like a girl within the first few meetings, do they continue "being friends" or "dating" her with the intention of marrying her? Do they make this clear to the girl within the first few "dates"? Why I am asking this is that in Western societies, men seem to be more commitment phobic, and for that reason, do not bring up the topic of marriage with a girl. Most women, on the other hand, are thinking of commitment and marriage and how this potential guy would be as a husband. Eventually, if the man does not mention anything about the future in terms of marriage, the woman will usually bring up this topic. So, for Indian men who have been brought up with the tradition of arranged marriages, how do you look upon the dating situation?
Also, if a man (of any race-nationality) meets a woman through means of telephone or internet and they continue talking for weeks-months and then eventually meet in person, etc., would you consider this a form of arranged marriage since they have not physically seen each other and formed a relationship before that time? What is your opinion of this?
looking forward to hearing your opinions!!thanks!
Peeshee said:Also, if a man (of any race-nationality) meets a woman through means of telephone or internet and they continue talking for weeks-months and then eventually meet in person, etc., would you consider this a form of arranged marriage since they have not physically seen each other and formed a relationship before that time? What is your opinion of this?
looking forward to hearing your opinions!!thanks!
Ajay said:I'll discuss the first part when I have time. As for the telephone / internet contact leading to marriage being considered arranged, I think the answer hinges on the narrowness of your definition of an arranged marriage.
I have a friend whose family knew of a girl in India. They were introduced over the Net and continued to chat / talk on the phone for months. She came to visit him here and they dated, albeit briefly. Now they're married. Personally, I'd consider this a very very very loose form of arranged marriage.
Bear in mind that an arranged marriage is a label used to describe anything from a simple introduction (with dating to follow) to a binding contract, so the label is quite fluid.
Buckeye(OH) said:Since I am an American born Indian, I guess I'm going to go ahead and throw in some of my own experiences.
Growing up with all white people, thats all I ever dated (I am 23). I recently broke up with a girl that I had been dating for 2.5 years. Though she was very open to my culture/my parents/etc, I think deep down it wouldnt have worked. We all know how Indian weddings are, and though nothing against her, she was a staunch Baptist. Culturally, I just think its going to be easier on me/her if we have the same background. When I get married, I want to be able to enjoy the ceremonial process (be it with an Indian girl or a white girl). Surprisingly, after this relationship, I find myself thinking that marrying an Indian girl might be easier in the long run after all. From the time I was little, my family (excluding my parents) have told me to marry within my race. I didn't think I would ever marry an Indian but it's weird how that sounds better and better with each relationship I have.
My brother just came back from India, hes 19. He told me that he was CONSTANTLY getting bombed with proposals/requests for his biodata etc. Thank God, I didnt go because I absolutely cannot handle that. No one is trying to "arrange" a marriage for me, per se, but if one day I said, "Please find my an Indian girl." My relatives would love nothing more....
Ahhh
Adrian
MD Rapper said:Nice...
I've always been interested in the perspective of an Indian person growing up in a community of non-Indians... I'm the opposite of you since I grew up around Indians my whole life and I have only dated Indian girls.
Where I don't differ from you is that I have grown to appreciate the potential marriage to an Indian girl more and more as I grow older. I have always recognized the cultural differences between Indians and mainstream society and those things mean a lot to me at the end of the day. I'm very proud of our traditions, our community, and what we have collectively accomplished here in the United States. I would love to be able to further this new "indo-american" culture that we've created with a like-minded woman.
I think the reason that people like us feel that its preferable to marry someone Indian is because we realize that marriage is sometimes not ONLY based on love the way it ideally should be. There are practicality issues such as religion, extended family, culture, and social background which play major roles in the whole process. All these things are undeniably strong predictors of future happiness in a marriage. Unfortunately it?s not as simple as it should be...
Anyway, I don't mean to revert back to the caste system topic, but I thought I would give another viewpoint.
I also agree that the caste system is archaic and socially backward for the society we live in today. However, I cannot help but notice how much the system has become a part of me since I have been raised with it. No, I do not want to necessarily marry another Brahmin etc... but I have noticed that I do look for some qualities in Indian girls that traditionally fit the model of the matrimonial ads someone was making fun of earlier. I cannot help but admit I like Indo girls who are fair and thin for example. At the same time, I do like "non-traditional" qualities such as independence and intelligence as well. I don't even really care if she can cook or not...
What I'm trying to say is that sometimes it?s hard for me to shake the caste system in my subconscious thought. Some of those qualities which have always been ingrained in my head as being good have transferred over into my personality as an adult. I think a lot of us fall victim to that.... we all have biases based on our upbringing. I think the key is to make a substantial effort to shatter those biases over the next couple of generations.
Buckeye(OH) said:I cant complain since I have never dated an Indian girl
DoctorMalki said:you're missing out
ohhh so you're one of those snobby indian guysPremedtomed said:so am I
not many Indian chicks here. the ones that are here hardly think highly of guys from india like me.
just like everyone else it's a guy's life. iam thankful to my fraternity for all the drinking and silly behavior. keeps me relaxed
ps i don't even look at them anymore i am a selfmade snob (pretty frustrating )
I have sort of turned into one.DoctorMalki said:ohhh so you're one of those snobby indian guys
Premedtomed said:I have sort of turned into one.
What can you expect when people around you i.e. "Indian Americans" aren't too nice and you still have made progress socially and academically
Buckeye(OH) said:Seems like Indian chicks born here don't want Indian dudes whether they are from India or here.
I guess they think all of us are dorks or something? I dont know.
Adrian
DoctorMalki said:I think there are two categories of indian american girls ... one who are so sick of the indian drama that they don't want to have indian friends or boyfriends. But then there are others who are very much in the "indian scene" and they will go out with only Indian guys.