Attending Life

[iqe2010]

What's this about the techies making 300k? That certainly is not the norm.

Your typical engineer or coder is gonna make around 120k. Not including bonuses and benefits. You're probably looking at 140-150k gross. Which is still great, especially for a 25 year old.

Those techies have sweet deals, especially considering most college grads who didn't major in a specialized field are lucky to get 50k.

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[deleted547631]

Dude... I would but I am on call this weekend. Should be perfect. They actually shut down the whole mountain last week due to a gnarly avalanche.

Take some turns for me Salty.

Dude! I recognize those beautiful snow-laden Sierra mountains!

 

[sevoflurane]

Dude! I recognize those beautiful snow-laden Sierra mountains! I might know you IRL.

Yeah buddy!


Keep your board/skis waxed.
Looks like another 2 ft Sierra dumapage is hading our way.

 

[pgg]

Nice to see the drought is over. My brother lived in June Lake for a bunch of years and worked the mountain. Spent many a happy day there and at Mammoth.

 

[Psai]

We should all take a moment to reflect on this statement “only 275” and see what a fortunate position we share.

275 is an insult

 

[Mman]

275 is an insult

insult to what?

It's more money than I would have planned on making when I was in college. While that would be way less than I make right now, I'd still do this job instead of something else for that amount of money so how insulted could I be?

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

insult to what?

It's more money than I would have planned on making when I was in college. While that would be way less than I make right now, I'd still do this job instead of something else for that amount of money so how insulted could I be?

This is gonna be fun

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[nimbus]

275 is an insult

You could say that’s my point. We are in a field where 275 is considered an insult. There are many jobs just as hard or harder, with more stress that don’t pay nearly as much. And many smart, hard working people (eg my parents) can’t ever fathom making that much.

 

[pgg]

275 is an insult

As an absolute value of what our labor is "worth" and what we "deserve" ... I can't agree that 275 is insulting.

If the context is that 275 is a fraction of the value we generate, while another 75, 175, 275, or more is being skimmed off by administrators and middle management companies ... insulting.

 

[deleted697535]

Ugh, this call room discussion reminds me of residency where in one of the towers we shared a room with bunk beds with the surgery resident on call. They were rarely there since they had ED consults all night but man it was awful and if you had bottom bunk the shaking made it seem like it could collapse at any time - fun times.

We had some rough beds too, sometimes literally a mile away from the action. I used to scout out all the decent spots, couches old trolleys etc downempty dark corridors and sleep there like a baby!

The odd time you'd be 'caught' by security who'd think you're homeless for a while! That was fun lol

 

[Ezekiel2517]

What's this about the techies making 300k? That certainly is not the norm.

Your typical engineer or coder is gonna make around 120k. Not including bonuses and benefits. You're probably looking at 140-150k gross. Which is still great, especially for a 25 year old.

Those techies have sweet deals, especially considering most college grads who didn't major in a specialized field are lucky to get 50k.

Completely clueless. Engineers in tech in the Silicon Valley make way way more than what a google search shows. You think they can afford to live here on 150k? Lol. Why do you think the Bay Area is so damn expensive? Most docs can't afford to live here

 

[cornfield123]

What’s your life like as an attending? How frequently do you take call? Is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

I’ve been having a bad week with a ridiculous amount of weekend calls on top of fellowship application stress, and difficulty scheduling my 1 week vaca. Maybe burnout is where this is coming from, but I’m just curious.

To the OP—Attending life gets much better. There is still bull****, there will always be unintelligent administrators to deal with, and there is always politics. But the best part of being an attending is that YOU ARE THE ATTENDING.

I am not a rockstar like UTSouthwestern (was, may he rest in peace), pgg, noyac or jet. In residency I was very quiet, but layed low and worked hard. I was extremely unhappy in residency. To the point that I wasn’t sure if I was even going to like Anesthesiology when I finished.

But now, I really love what I do. And I’m very grateful to be able to serve the patients the way in which we do in our profession.

Not many of the attendings I worked with seemed remotely well-adjusted or happy. I didn’t want to go through all this **** only to become them.

I could not understand residents whining and complaining about staying late at the Children’s Hospital for an add-on when the add-on was a port placement for a 16 year with newly diagnosed cancer.

I could not understand attendings talking about who is having an affair with who, when the damn patient was not even under anesthesia yet.

Residency is like the military, you need to just get through it. Do what you’re told, work hard, study hard, and focus on the only thing you really have control over which is yourself. And cultivating yourself into the kind of physician you want to be.

Take note of the bad examples, take more note of the good examples, and you can be whatever kind of doctor you want when you’re done. I genuinely love being in attending in Anesthesiologist now. I really never thought I would.

If you are someone with a work ethic, competence and integrity, your fellow physicians will notice. Nursing staff will notice. You will be appreciated and respected when you show up in the room. If you genuinely care about your patients, they will notice and appreciate it too.

Attending life is so much better. Hang in there. Even if no fiber in your being feels this way, residency will be over before you know it. Good luck

 

[NightNight]

insult to what?

It's more money than I would have planned on making when I was in college. While that would be way less than I make right now, I'd still do this job instead of something else for that amount of money so how insulted could I be?

How great is $275K when the cost of obtaining a medical degree can be in excess of $500K and you‘re losing a third of that $275K every year to Uncle Sam?

 

[Mman]

How great is $275K when the cost of obtaining a medical degree can be in excess of $500K and your losing a third of that every year to Uncle Sam?

it's a far better situation than the majority of people in our country and on our planet. And honestly, if somebody borrowed $500K to get their degree, that's kinda on them. $125K per year? I can essentially guarantee that anyone paying that much also got accepted at less expensive options.

 

[NightNight]

it's a far better situation than the majority of people in our country and on our planet. And honestly, if somebody borrowed $500K to get their degree, that's kinda on them. $125K per year? I can essentially guarantee that anyone paying that much also got accepted at less expensive options.

It’s called interest. Maybe you haven’t seen the rates recently

 

[pgg]

It’s called interest. Maybe you haven’t seen the rates recently

Even at 6.8% you'd have to borrow $87K/year to wind up owing $500K after an anesthesia residency. But it's a rare student who has to finance the entirety of $50K+ tuition plus living expenses at that rate.

I guess if you tack on a loan-financed undergraduate degree at USC or Tufts, and walk into a private med school owing $200K+ already, then anything is possible.

But let's not pretend that $500K is anywhere near typical. The AMA says median debt of new grads is $175K.

 

[Mman]

It’s called interest. Maybe you haven’t seen the rates recently

I know all about it. I just think you have little concept of what most people in the country get by on for income after taxes. We can bitch and moan all we want, but we've still got it really good. If you want some sympathy on paying off your loans, go into family practice or pediatrics and see what they are earning in income.

 

[NightNight]

Even at 6.8% you'd have to borrow $87K/year to wind up owing $500K after an anesthesia residency. But it's a rare student who has to finance the entirety of $50K+ tuition plus living expenses at that rate.

I guess if you tack on a loan-financed undergraduate degree at USC or Tufts, and walk into a private med school owing $200K+ already, then anything is possible.

But let's not pretend that $500K is anywhere near typical. The AMA says median debt of new grads is $175K.

I think $175K is waaaaay underestimating “typical”. When I say $500K+, I’m talking lifetime cost of the loan, not “what it is when you graduate”. And yeah, a lot of people come into med school with substantial undergraduate debt as well. So it’s easy to start attendinghood with $300K+ of total debt. And not everyone can live in an apartment like a resident for the next five years, throwing every spare dime at the loan to pay it off quickly.

 

[sevoflurane]

My wife and I came out with a combined debt of 600K... and we were not big spenders.
I can see both sides of this conversation.
275k isn't so glamorous once you consider the sacrifices that you go through that really starts when you are in high school. It progresses into college, med school, residency, fellowship and then the rest of your life. It's def. a long road of rigorous studying, weekends, long 30+ hour shifts, etc.
It's a safe way to get a good salary... but it is taxing.

 

[W19]

I love life now. Also single, no kids in a fun city.

Average pay but great benefits, like my coworkers and hours aren’t bad. 45-55ish depending on call.
Half home/in house call. Post call always off. Every 4th weekend.

About to take a position with more call, but...
- again post call always off
- non call days are very light
- 17 weeks vacation

It gets better.

17 wks is 4+ months... How is that even possible?

 

[nimbus]

Still there’s a line out the door of every single Medical school in this country of smart young people trying to get in. Why is that? Maybe there really aren’t many comparable opportunities out there. Nobody is ever forced to go to medical school. This discussion should be moved to the premed forums where it’s not too late.

 

[QueenJames]

To the OP—Attending life gets much better. There is still bull****, there will always be unintelligent administrators to deal with, and there is always politics. But the best part of being an attending is that YOU ARE THE ATTENDING.

I am not a rockstar like UTSouthwestern (was, may he rest in peace), pgg, noyac or jet. In residency I was very quiet, but layed low and worked hard. I was extremely unhappy in residency. To the point that I wasn’t sure if I was even going to like Anesthesiology when I finished.

But now, I really love what I do. And I’m very grateful to be able to serve the patients the way in which we do in our profession.

Not many of the attendings I worked with seemed remotely well-adjusted or happy. I didn’t want to go through all this **** only to become them.

I could not understand residents whining and complaining about staying late at the Children’s Hospital for an add-on when the add-on was a port placement for a 16 year with newly diagnosed cancer.

I could not understand attendings talking about who is having an affair with who, when the damn patient was not even under anesthesia yet.

Residency is like the military, you need to just get through it. Do what you’re told, work hard, study hard, and focus on the only thing you really have control over which is yourself. And cultivating yourself into the kind of physician you want to be.

Take note of the bad examples, take more note of the good examples, and you can be whatever kind of doctor you want when you’re done. I genuinely love being in attending in Anesthesiologist now. I really never thought I would.

If you are someone with a work ethic, competence and integrity, your fellow physicians will notice. Nursing staff will notice. You will be appreciated and respected when you show up in the room. If you genuinely care about your patients, they will notice and appreciate it too.

Attending life is so much better. Hang in there. Even if no fiber in your being feels this way, residency will be over before you know it. Good luck

I've realized that it is not medicine that sucks.

It's the people in medicine.

Who you are around is more important and can be either taxing/energizing than where you are at.

 

[QueenJames]

lmao

275 is a KICK IN THE TESTES.

Hospitalists clear that much working 15-16 shifts a month in my neck of the woods!

WTF

#PayAnesthesiaMore

#OutWithTheCRNAs

#MakeAnesthesiaGreatAgain

 

[Guillemot]

Even at 6.8% you'd have to borrow $87K/year to wind up owing $500K after an anesthesia residency. But it's a rare student who has to finance the entirety of $50K+ tuition plus living expenses at that rate.

I guess if you tack on a loan-financed undergraduate degree at USC or Tufts, and walk into a private med school owing $200K+ already, then anything is possible.

But let's not pretend that $500K is anywhere near typical. The AMA says median debt of new grads is $175K.

The average debt is brought down by the large amount of students who have family pay for part or all of their education. Not impressed by schools that have a low average student debt, but have a high cost of attendance (tuition + living). Just means that their students came from wealth.

I'm not saying that families should not help out their children. What I'm saying is that the average debt statistic doesn't have much bearing.

 

[W19]

lmao

275 is a KICK IN THE TESTES.

Hospitalists clear that much working 15-16 shifts a month in my neck of the woods!

WTF

#PayAnesthesiaMore

#OutWithTheCRNAs

#MakeAnesthesiaGreatAgain

Where is your neck of the woods? Rural Oklahoma

 

[NightNight]

To be clear, I’m very happy being an attending anesthesiologist. I love my job and life. But I wouldn’t do the work I do now for $275K forever.

 

[pgg]

The average debt is brought down by the large amount of students who have family pay for part or all of their education. Not impressed by schools that have a low average student debt, but have a high cost of attendance (tuition + living). Just means that their students came from wealth.

I'm not saying that families should not help out their children. What I'm saying is that the average debt statistic doesn't have much bearing.

That's a fair point.

Even so. Given $500K of debt at 6.8%, earning 275K/year ... it's manageable debt. Even if you don't refinance, putting 20% of income aside for payments gets it paid off in 15 years.

Refinance to a more reasonable 3%, it's gone in 10 years. Get a little more aggressive and 5 year payoff isn't unreasonable.

At $275K your overall federal tax rate is going to be around 20%. Even if you're in an expensive state like California, total tax burden is likely to be 30% or less, leaving $190K after taxes. It's just silly to think you can't pay down $500K student loan debt in a reasonable period and still live very well on that.

It'll be OK. We're not schoolteachers who financed an Ivy League undergrad and masters degree and are entering the workforce at $35K/year. $275K is a lot of money.

 

[GA8314]

Regarding debt, yeah it's a problem but as Pgg states, you can get really aggressive and pay it off pretty quickly if you make it a priority. I would not personally advocate a "hurry up and by a Mercedes" approach to this gig. Upgrade as you are truly able, but you do have the ability to save, pay off debt, and live a nice life, but you need to make it a priority.

On a "deeper" level, you will be surprised how little material things actually effect your happiness. They just don't matter that much. Refuse to view yourself as a consumer. Make hay while you are able.

 

[Shimmy8]

17 wks is 4+ months... How is that even possible?

Be willing to work in a less desirable location/site; in house call q4 when I'm on; have a solid, solid crew of colleagues you can count on; and you can run a lean ship with a lot of time off.

I'm definitely trading a lot of 24 hour shifts for time off. But it's worth it to me, and I'll pick up a little extra on my weeks off to try and pay down a bunch of debt.

May be a terrible mistake, but couldn't pass up the opportunity.

 

[anbuitachi]

Medicine doesn't select average students, not even close. and therefore we dont expect our jobs to be average or paid like an average person, or even 90% of the population. How many jobs can you think of that requires as many years, hours, and money as ours? I can't really think of any. If our lifetime income is based on this, we should be in the top .1%, but we are no where close. Our salaries are high, but our total life time net income is lower than high paying peers in other industries due to that head start and no 200-300k loans at 6% interest.. Was talking to a friend making 140k not including benefits in the tech world. Based on retirement calculators, he is set to have ~10M assuming 6% growth rate by the time he retires, and that's assuming he gets ZERO promotions/raises, which is pretty much impossible in tech world for a young grad.

Regarding loans, it's hard to compare today's world vs when some of you did med school. Tuition skyrocketted in the past decade. Competition is fiercer than ever. Many people only get into 1 med school so you are forced to take it or quit medicine.. At the same time college tuitions are going up as well. Many of us went to Ivy/equivalent schools, and those are expensive.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

To the OP—Attending life gets much better. There is still bull****, there will always be unintelligent administrators to deal with, and there is always politics. But the best part of being an attending is that YOU ARE THE ATTENDING.

I am not a rockstar like UTSouthwestern (was, may he rest in peace), pgg, noyac or jet. In residency I was very quiet, but layed low and worked hard. I was extremely unhappy in residency. To the point that I wasn’t sure if I was even going to like Anesthesiology when I finished.

But now, I really love what I do. And I’m very grateful to be able to serve the patients the way in which we do in our profession.

Not many of the attendings I worked with seemed remotely well-adjusted or happy. I didn’t want to go through all this **** only to become them.

I could not understand residents whining and complaining about staying late at the Children’s Hospital for an add-on when the add-on was a port placement for a 16 year with newly diagnosed cancer.

I could not understand attendings talking about who is having an affair with who, when the damn patient was not even under anesthesia yet.

Residency is like the military, you need to just get through it. Do what you’re told, work hard, study hard, and focus on the only thing you really have control over which is yourself. And cultivating yourself into the kind of physician you want to be.

Take note of the bad examples, take more note of the good examples, and you can be whatever kind of doctor you want when you’re done. I genuinely love being in attending in Anesthesiologist now. I really never thought I would.

If you are someone with a work ethic, competence and integrity, your fellow physicians will notice. Nursing staff will notice. You will be appreciated and respected when you show up in the room. If you genuinely care about your patients, they will notice and appreciate it too.

Attending life is so much better. Hang in there. Even if no fiber in your being feels this way, residency will be over before you know it. Good luck

Thank you for this perspective. A reminder that what we do and how we do it matters as doctors. And that's the personal satisfaction that gets us through residency and beyond. Good to see attending life is what you make of it!

 

[pgg]

Medicine doesn't select average students, not even close. and therefore we dont expect our jobs to be average or paid like an average person, or even 90% of the population. How many jobs can you think of that requires as many years, hours, and money as ours? I can't really think of any. If our lifetime income is based on this, we should be in the top .1%, but we are no where close.

The problem with that line of thinking is that the market doesn't care what anyone deserves. And whether that market is very free or not very free, supply & demand can't be ignored. The truth is that there are enough of us willing to work for a top 3% income that any argument that we "deserve" top .1% income is just irrelevant.

If you spend your time worrying about what less deserving people are earning, you're in for a lifetime of heartburn.


And I still maintain that all this techie-envy is misplaced.

Based on retirement calculators, he is set to have ~10M assuming 6% growth rate by the time he retires, and that's assuming he gets ZERO promotions/raises, which is pretty much impossible in tech world for a young grad.

To get to $10M over a 40 year career you'd have to put away $60K/year and earn 6%. I don't see a lot of techies earning $140K doing that, especially in the kinds of high COL places they usually work. (To say nothing of whether or not average 6% real gains are likely.)

And that's assuming the "techie" even has a job past age 45. That industry wrote the book on age discrimination.

Here's another scenario: your young techie works for 25 years and dutifully maxes out his 401(k) every year ($18,500) before all of a sudden he's unemployable because he's "old". At 6% he's got $1M saved up. Now he's out of work at about age 50, sitting on a park bench wishing he'd gone to medical school and had some job security.

 

[anbuitachi]

The problem with that line of thinking is that the market doesn't care what anyone deserves. And whether that market is very free or not very free, supply & demand can't be ignored. The truth is that there are enough of us willing to work for a top 3% income that any argument that we "deserve" top .1% income is just irrelevant.

If you spend your time worrying about what less deserving people are earning, you're in for a lifetime of heartburn.


And I still maintain that all this techie-envy is misplaced.



To get to $10M over a 40 year career you'd have to put away $60K/year and earn 6%. I don't see a lot of techies earning $140K doing that, especially in the kinds of high COL places they usually work. (To say nothing of whether or not average 6% real gains are likely.)

And that's assuming the "techie" even has a job past age 45. That industry wrote the book on age discrimination.

Here's another scenario: your young techie works for 25 years and dutifully maxes out his 401(k) every year ($18,500) before all of a sudden he's unemployable because he's "old". At 6% he's got $1M saved up. Now he's out of work at about age 50, sitting on a park bench wishing he'd gone to medical school and had some job security.

I dont think that trend will continue to happen with tech. We are in a tech boom in , and I dont think it will slow down any time soon because that's the direction we are heading in. Everything is becoming tech related. Unless WW3 happens that may slow it down or something. We are also severely short on tech people in this country. Some older tech ppl may get displaced not because they are old, but b/c they dont keep up with the tech. Tech is a little bit like medicine in the way that you have to keep your knowledge up. But yea I think tech is the future, especially at the rate tech is growing. AI is going to dominate everything, everything you use will have code in it, your sneakers, glasses, desk, home appliance, etc. It may even take over your job in the future

With the calculator, number entered was 45 years (age 21/22 - 67). 45k is saved per year. 6% interest. At retirement age 67, calculator shows 10.1M.
With that said, this techie does not live in silicon valley, afterall his salary is only 140k not including benefits. This techie's company also does percent matching for retirement saving, covers health insurance 100% cost.
Assuming a tax rate of 35% (his is actually lower than that), he has 91k after tax income, if he puts 45k in retirement, he has 46k left over. 20k a year goes to his rent. Remaining 26k is used on food, and whatever.

Above #s does not sound unreasonable. 26k a year to spend on food and other stuff is decent. And those #s are pessimistic since it doesn't take into account his lower tax rate, company matching to help add up to that 45k, and pre tax contributions, raises/promotions

Average student entering med school is now 24 yrs old. Assuming student goes thru school and residency without gaps. She will be 32 yr sold at graduation from residency. I'll be generous and says she pays off ALL her loans in 8 years post med school (4 yrs resident 4 attending). She starts saving at 36 yrs old. To reach the save 10M, 120k per year for 30 years.

 

[pgg]

Those are all fair points.

Predicting the future is hard. I'm a little biased because I had my toes in the techie pool before I left to go to medical school, and it was the right answer for me.

I'm not a gambler by nature (though I did get called ballsy the other day because I flushed a CRNA's propofol in with rocuronium before she verified ventilation ). Medicine is a profession where everyone is essentially guaranteed great success by any objective measure ... job security, high income, retirement comfort, and some other intangibles like social prestige and personal pride in doing an important job.

Tech workers and the other usual suspects (business, i-banking, etc) may be able to claw out some better numbers (for a while? still extremely skeptical about job security!), but the rest of it is hardly assured.

 

[W19]

This chart shows that docs as a whole do better than most other industries

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

 

[San Marzano]

I'm not a gambler by nature (though I did get called ballsy the other day because I flushed a CRNA's propofol in with rocuronium before she verified ventilation ).

Doctor, I’m afraid that’s not part of the induction of Anesthesia nursing protocol and we are going to have to write you up.

 

[agammaglobulin]

General rule of thumb given by some personal finance guru's (WCI, Dave Ramsey) is not to borrow more than one year's annual salary when you've completed your training. Whether that's college, med school, dental, etc. It's obviously doable to pay down more debt, but not sure I'd advise my children to do it.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Lmao, some people here actually think tech is some sort of fad. Like I said, simply clueless. Take a step back and understand what's going on right now and try to gain some perspective. What's happening with tech right now is historic. We are in an age of advancement, technology, and information that is unprecedented in human history. In a couple hundred years, no ones gonna look back at this period and remember any of this stupid **** that dominates the news right now. Trump will be a footnote in history books. What will be remembered is this period of technology and how it changed the world forever. And as far as the hypothetical scenario of the tech industry collapsing (lol), guess what? They're still engineers who are highly trained and are from top programs and many with advanced degrees. They ain't gonna be left to teach 8th grade algebra. I got a family full of engineers in tech. They ain't making 140K lol. 140K would officially meet the criteria for low income here in the Bay. They're making at least double that, not including benefits. If you become a senior, lead engineer on the right projects, you have the opportunity to bank high 6 figures-1 million+ and beyond per year

 

[pgg]

@Ezekiel2517, you could've posted that exactly 20 years ago and you'd have been equally right and wrong. Of course "tech" is here to stay. That doesn't mean technology careers are unequivocally great for the individual, or that the sector doesn't have more dips and curves than medicine.

Most of the tech companies of 1998 are gone. A lot of the tech is obsolete. A lot of people who worked those jobs didn't ride the next wave up.

And that's not even counting the age problem in those industries. Who are the people with great careers in tech now? Young people. Who will have great careers in tech in 20 years? Probably more young people. For every 45 yo "grey beard" today there are ten 20-somethings. It'll be the same in 20 years.

It seems like there's little appreciation for just how much attrition that industry has when people get "old" ...

Anyway. I feel like I've argued this point to death.

 

[deleted697535]

I was an engineer for 6 years. For every one that makes big money there are at least 100 who just make maybe 60 to 70k. There has to be

And as for the notion that the period we're in now will be remembered as especially innovative it really won't I don't think.

There are quite obvious next generation of travel, communication and power tech etc that are just waiting to be refined into useable products eg autonomous drones, touchless screen less communication devices, practical Tesla's...
We're essentially primitive in those fields right now

Before the iPhone in circa 2002 as a young engineer I had an 800mhz laptop with a 20gig hard drive and I honestly thought it was so advanced that I would have it forever. Nothing to my mind would ever require much more power.

This will continue forever. It has to really. It's the only way man can get rich. By creating and selling new stuff. And money/power buys nice things and attracts girlfriends etc and that's all people really care about...

 

[D P356]

While on my pediatric anesthesia rotation, I asked a kid what he wanted to be when he grew up. He said, "a blogger." Moore's Law will continue to make even today's high tech standards obsolete.

But, when the Cloud becomes self-aware, I hope John Conner will be around.

But, my attendings tell me the schedule gets better when residency is over.

 

[Psai]

While on my pediatric anesthesia rotation, I asked a kid what he wanted to be when he grew up. He said, "a blogger." Moore's Law will continue to make even today's high tech standards obsolete.

But, when the Cloud becomes self-aware, I hope John Conner will be around.

But, my attendings tell me the schedule gets better when residency is over.

Huh. I thought blogging is something you just fell into if you had no marketable skills.

 

[zero0]

Huh. I thought blogging is something you just fell into if you had no marketable skills.

Not at all. There's a huge market in pandering to the willfully uninformed right now.

 

[anbuitachi]

I was an engineer for 6 years. For every one that makes big money there are at least 100 who just make maybe 60 to 70k. There has to be

And as for the notion that the period we're in now will be remembered as especially innovative it really won't I don't think.

There are quite obvious next generation of travel, communication and power tech etc that are just waiting to be refined into useable products eg autonomous drones, touchless screen less communication devices, practical Tesla's...
We're essentially primitive in those fields right now

Before the iPhone in circa 2002 as a young engineer I had an 800mhz laptop with a 20gig hard drive and I honestly thought it was so advanced that I would have it forever. Nothing to my mind would ever require much more power.

This will continue forever. It has to really. It's the only way man can get rich. By creating and selling new stuff. And money/power buys nice things and attracts girlfriends etc and that's all people really care about...

Most of the money is in computer related tech / CS. Not really the entire field of engineering. Look at the recent IPOs and acquisitions.. Whatsapp for 19B? One CS dood can code that in his basement. Linkedin for 26 B? Snapchat IPO for 29B? And many many more that you aren't hearing about in the headlines.. One app is worth more than your entire hospital.

 

[deleted697535]

Most of the money is in computer related tech / CS. Not really the entire field of engineering. Look at the recent IPOs and acquisitions.. Whatsapp for 19B? One CS dood can code that in his basement. Linkedin for 26 B? Snapchat IPO for 29B? And many many more that you aren't hearing about in the headlines.. One app is worth more than your entire hospital.

I dont think anyone is disagreeing with that but for every WhatsApp founder there are probably 100,000 coders who don't make it, and just take a low salary job

 

[The Physician Philosopher]

Not at all. There's a huge market in pandering to the willfully uninformed right now.

Hahahaha you guys are hilarious.

Unfortunately, medical school makes many uninformed people as it teaches nothing about wealth and wellness. You can pick it up on your own by putting the hours in, but many would rather learn "enough" to make smart financial decisions.

I don't fault anyone for going through medical school and focusing predominantly on becoming a good physician. That's what medical school teaches most med students... Then on their way out the door they say something like "oh, by the way, you should do something with all that debt we gave you."

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Can I opt for the mommy track after residency as a dude???

 

[POW16]

Can I opt for the mommy track after residency as a dude???

Not sure if it's a serious question but answer is yes. Male grads from my program are living that life.

 

[acidbase1]

I came out with 450k in student loans and didn’t do anything outlandish. Medical education tuition has increased substantially over the past decade, a lot of you older fogies don’t realize how expensive it is these days. I also lived hand to mouth off 20k/semester in a city. So account 40k/yr x 4 on top of tuition it’s pretty easy to do. Then 6.8% on 450k came out to around 40-50k in interest per year. It’s a crap shoot. Fortunately I moonlighted my ass off and paid them down to 100k

 

[anbuitachi]

I came out with 450k in student loans and didn’t do anything outlandish. Medical education tuition has increased substantially over the past decade, a lot of you older fogies don’t realize how expensive it is these days. I also lived hand to mouth off 20k/semester in a city. So account 40k/yr x 4 on top of tuition it’s pretty easy to do. Then 6.8% on 450k came out to around 40-50k in interest per year. It’s a crap shoot. Fortunately I moonlighted my ass off and paid them down to 100k

As an attending? Did you manage to put any money to savings?