Being A Psychiatrist

[kitty129]

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I'm currently in high school, but I was thinking if it was possible to take a Psychology bachelors degree in the UK and then going to Med School at US? After all the research I found that the steps taken to be a psychiatrist is longer in the UK than in the US. Although since bachelors degrees in the UK are only taken in three years, and it is 4 years in the US, I was thinking of taking the psychology degree in the UK first. Will US Med Schools accept UK universities bachelors degrees?

 

[nitemagi]

Better a Q for the allopathic forum.

 

[lymphocyte]

I'm currently in high school, but I was thinking if it was possible to take a Psychology bachelors degree in the UK and then going to Med School at US? After all the research I found that the steps taken to be a psychiatrist is longer in the UK than in the US. Although since bachelors degrees in the UK are only taken in three years, and it is 4 years in the US, I was thinking of taking the psychology degree in the UK first. Will US Med Schools accept UK universities bachelors degrees?

It's fantastic you're interested in psychiatry and psychology is a great foundation for psychiatric study. I can't speak to all of the ins-and-outs of applying to an American medical school as an international student, though I imagine it would be quite competitive. You'll also likely run into several issues: for example, 1) taking the appropriate prerequisites (can you squeeze in calculus, physics, organic chemistry, etc. into your psychology degree? Would it still only be 3 years?), 2) taking the MCAT (which is very different from the UKCAT or GAMSAT), and 3) funding--you're talking about ~£9,000/year with generous repayment options versus >£30,000/year of private loans. The best way to learn more is to contact schools you're interested in and ask specifically about international admissions.

I can see you're mindful about how long medical training takes. 4 years of residency in very tempting. But there's a huge drawback: it will be very difficult to practice in the UK ever again with an American license. You'd likely have to repeat a lot of training and sit the speciality exams.

On the other hand, in the UK, you'll have to do 2 years of foundation training and 6 years of speciality training. That sounds like a huge difference (4 years versus 8), but the European model of training is generally much more humane and pays very well (ask an American resident how much overtime he gets paid, and he'll laugh at you... and then he'll cry). This might be a better long-term plan depending on your goals and preferences.

A third option is to do medical school in the UK and then apply for residency in the US. You'll have to sit the American licensing exams (called the Step exams) and do some rotations in the US to gain experience and letters of recommendation, but psychiatry tends to be open to taking international medical graduates for their residency programs (and I reckon it would be less competitive than applying for medical school as an international student). There are tons of posts on SDN about this option.

 

[Extralong]

Becareful with this. If you want to end up in the US, do Med school in the US. Simple as that. The road to entering a US residency is always easier from a US school with much less hoops to jump through.
Being an international student that wants to do a US residency is not as simple as it sounds, have to get US letter of recs, setting up US elective Rotations, going through an additional accreditation body, etc.
Lastly, I would not assume that psychiatry will be "open" to taking international students. Look at it this way, ever year, it's harder and harder for international students to get into a US residency.

 

[lymphocyte]

Becareful with this. If you want to end up in the US, do Med school in the US. Simple as that. The road to entering a US residency is always easier from a US school with much less hoops to jump through.

It's actually not that simple.

You're thinking about this situation from the perspective of an IMG. He or she's thinking about this situation from the perspective of somebody graduating high school.

It is difficult to secure a residency as an IMG, but I guarantee you that it's much, much harder to get admitted to a US medical school as an international student.

Don't forget ~40-50% of psych residents are IMGs. And more, not less, IMGs matched in the 2016 than 2015. Contrary to the doomsayers, things are getting better (or at least holding steady).

 

[OldPsychDoc]

It's actually not that simple.

You're thinking about this situation from the perspective of an IMG. He or she's thinking about this situation from the perspective of somebody graduating high school.

It is difficult to secure a residency as an IMG, but I guarantee you that it's much, much harder to get admitted to a US medical school as an international student.

Don't forget ~40-50% of psych residents are IMGs. And more, not less, IMGs matched in the 2016 than 2015. Contrary to the doomsayers, things are getting better (or at least holding steady).

I'll disagree--if you look at the #s here--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...more-competitive.1125203/page-2#post-17735728--you'll see that Non US Citizen IMGs only filled 10% of the matches in 2016. And that was out of hundreds trying for those positions. (It wasn't a ton better for US Citizen IMGs from the Caribbean, etc., either.)

I'm just saying that one should not enter this process expecting that psych is going to be an easy match for an IMG 6-8 years from now.

 

[Extralong]

I'll disagree--if you look at the #s here--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...more-competitive.1125203/page-2#post-17735728--you'll see that Non US Citizen IMGs only filled 10% of the matches in 2016. And that was out of hundreds trying for those positions. (It wasn't a ton better for US Citizen IMGs from the Caribbean, etc., either.)

I'm just saying that one should not enter this process expecting that psych is going to be an easy match for an IMG 6-8 years from now.

I completely agree.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

This is how trouble starts. It really isn’t a good idea to aim at nontraditional ways to get trained in the US. Most people who do get in from international undergraduate or post graduate places do so because they had to. Now if you do undergraduate work at Cambridge or Oxford, nobody will look askance at your credentials. Probably the University of Edinburgh or Glasgow would also be considered generally superior places for undergraduate work. I’m also guessing that there are many other good places in London, York, Manchester, Liverpool, Inverness, Bath… the point is, you don’t want a US admissions committee to scratch their heads and ask, “is that school any good? I’ve never heard of that school, at least I have never known anyone from there.”

 

[lymphocyte]

Duly corrected.

Edit: Okay, I did more research. Here are some data from 2013. For US medical schools, 1,088 non-US citizens/residents applied, 115 of which (10.6%) matriculated. Yale University even goes out of its way to write about international students (who presumably would attending Yale as an undergraduate) and medical admissions:

It is extremely difficult for international applicants who are not citizens or permanent residents of the United States to gain admission to U.S. medical schools. State-supported medical schools rarely consider international applicants for admission, and those private schools that do accept applications generally require that international students place in escrow an amount ranging from one to four years’ tuition and fees (USD 40,000–200,000).​

It looks like an uphill no matter what. The first link might be useful in figuring out what medical schools you could apply to as an international student.

http://premedusa.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/US-Medical-Schools-for-Internationals-Updated.html

http://admissions.yale.edu/applying-yale-international-student#med

 

[Extralong]

This is how trouble starts. It really isn’t a good idea to aim at nontraditional ways to get trained in the US. Most people who do get in from international undergraduate or post graduate places do so because they had to. Now if you do undergraduate work at Cambridge or Oxford, nobody will look askance at your credentials. Probably the University of Edinburgh or Glasgow would also be considered generally superior places for undergraduate work. I’m also guessing that there are many other good places in London, York, Manchester, Liverpool, Inverness, Bath… the point is, you don’t want a US admissions committee to scratch their heads and ask, “is that school any good? I’ve never heard of that school, at least I have never known anyone from there.”

I think it would be wise to figure out if you are dead set at practicing in the US. International schools can help with the advantage of easier admissions for that country, i.e. if you are thinking about United Kingdom, then I would consider a school there.

It is hard to get into a US school, n doubt about it, but its worth a try. And as MacDonaldTriad stated, most people that go an international school and come back to the US residency, is because they had to.

 

[Blitz2006]

I'll disagree--if you look at the #s here--http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...more-competitive.1125203/page-2#post-17735728--you'll see that Non US Citizen IMGs only filled 10% of the matches in 2016. And that was out of hundreds trying for those positions. (It wasn't a ton better for US Citizen IMGs from the Caribbean, etc., either.)

I'm just saying that one should not enter this process expecting that psych is going to be an easy match for an IMG 6-8 years from now.

This is correct.

I think in total, 21% (US and Non-US IMG) matched into Psych this year. For comparison, it was 42% in Internal Medicine...