California Northstate Accreditation Discussion

[Sparda29]

Yeah well NAPLEX isn't powered/designed to measure clinical ability, its sole purpose is to determine "minimum competency" which a lot of people don't seem to understand on here. People get hung up on naplex pass rates like its the end all/be all of pharmacy metrics.

Granted, there's a dearth of objective data...I guess that's one of the few things available so people cling to it.

We don't do enough to warrant a 3 step exam, I think LOR's and clinical decision making cases at residency interviews are sufficient at figuring out if a candidate is a star or a dud.

Yeah, but with a ****ty GPA, you're not gonna get a chance to get to this step.

It doesn't have to be a 3-step exam. Just one "clinical competency" that is only taken if you are pursuing a residency.

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[All4MyDaughter]

Yeah, but with a ****ty GPA, you're not gonna get a chance to get to this step.

It doesn't have to be a 3-step exam. Just one "clinical competency" that is only taken if you are pursuing a residency.

Ok the take home message here is to actually try in school and not just coast through. Even if we changed the exam, people would still see your bad grades and most likely draw unfavorable conclusions.

 

[UConn101]

~15 applied for residency, 8 matched. Source = CNCP c/o 2012 grads x2

It's almost impossible to determine how many applied some could of apply and not told anybody.

 

[confettiflyer]

Ok...wait...so 60% of the students are going into residencies? Really? When the hell did this happen? And nobody is concerned about the fact that these residencies specialize people into narrow career directions? It's not like there are that many jobs out there for that sort of training. What happens when they can't find a job and they've become too specialized to work retail, mail, or whatever else a generalist PharmD could do fresh out of graduation? Does anyone else see how the numbers don't seem like they should add up or am I crazy?

60% match rate of those who apply (3700 total?), but yes it's still a small minority of graduates each year.

I dunno, PGY1 is super super general to me, no way I could "specialize" just looking at the schedules I'm doing. It's inpatient focused of course, and that's where I wanna go, and there was no freaking way I could get any inpatient job without it in California.

Means to an end.

Plus I can still do retail/mail order/outpt if I wanted to, so more doors open when I finish vs. any perception of "PharmD freshness" a new grad may have.

 

[confettiflyer]

It's almost impossible to determine how many applied some could of apply and not told anybody.

it's "could have" not "could of" FYI

you could be right, but i doubt it. i know my school specifically asked students to report if they applied so they could assist during the scramble. also, several people "kept it secret" but word gets around especially in a small class. Sparda -- would you say this was the case at your school?

But let's assume you're right, let's say 5-7 people kept it secret and didn't match, this means the known match rate of 53% is the maximum match rate at the school. If someone matched, it would be obvious because the person would tell everyone. The true match rate would then be ~40%.

 

[confettiflyer]

Ugh I know, this drives me nuts...match rate means nothing. We have a school in our area (diploma mill) that claims they have the highest match rate, but in reality they had <10 students even apply for residency. It doesn't mean anything when you compare the established schools that had more candidates apply and they matched a larger number of students and greater percent go to residency compared to their total number of students.

Whoa...page 11!

I think match rate coupled with the application rate is a useful statistic, just because there's a dearth of good, objective information on any school. Like I mentioned earlier, NAPLEX isn't a good measure, and US News/individual opinions are entirely subjective.

I want numbers, damn it!

 

[joetrisman]

I think match rate coupled with the application rate is a useful statistic, just because there's a dearth of good, objective information on any school. Like I mentioned earlier, NAPLEX isn't a good measure, and US News/individual opinions are entirely subjective.

I want numbers, damn it!

You can't handle the truth!

Sounds like a good article for AJHP...

 

[moolman]

Moolman, what kind of site are you at? Don' thave to say specifically ... how describe the students you get from CNCP?

You can PM me

 

[30Percent]

it's "could have" not "could of" FYI

.

Yes its a common error. "Could have" is shortened to "could've", which can sound like "could of" when pronounced.

Its a similar mistake with "for all intents and purposes", which is bastardize to "for all intensive purposes."

 

[confettiflyer]

Yes its a common error. "Could have" is shortened to "could've", which can sound like "could of" when pronounced.

So common errors are okay to make?

Pharmacy is the career for you, my friend. haha

 

[30Percent]

So common errors are okay to make?

Did I say that?

Way to jump to conclusions.

 

[UConn101]

Yes its a common error. "Could have" is shortened to "could've", which can sound like "could of" when pronounced.

Its a similar mistake with "for all intents and purposes", which is bastardize to "for all intensive purposes."

Should of say "bastardized" not "bastardize"

 

[rxlea]

The "should of" really bothers me for some reason.

 

[30Percent]

Should of say "bastardized" not "bastardize"

 

[confettiflyer]

I've noticed there's like a huge uptick in grammar/logic failure whenever we're in a CNCP thread. It's a weird phenomenon.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Didn't All4Mydaughter's school open Fall 2008? Maybe you can ask her.

I searched my posts for last year and found that I thought maybe 15 people in my class (67 people, I think) applied and only three that I knew of didn't match. One reason that I think fewer people applied is a higher % of local non-trads who had been technicians for years and wanted to go to pharmacy school but we never had a local one. Another factor is that many of my classmates are from small rural communities out in the state, and they had jobs lined up back home. Some went to retail and some hospital. The 3rd biggest cohort is people from out of state (mostly California) who went back after they graduated. I have no idea what they are all doing now.

Our class of 2012 had a number of people match for very good residencies as well. 2 or 3 VA, managed care, Level 1 trauma centers, UIC, somewhere in South Carolina... these are just the ones I remember.

 

[Ackj]

Yes its a common error. "Could have" is shortened to "could've", which can sound like "could of" when pronounced.

Its a similar mistake with "for all intents and purposes", which is bastardize to "for all intensive purposes."

I am sorry to be the baron of bad news, but you seem buttered, so allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies, and are more than just ice king on the cake. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite.
So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality.
I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the fax, instead of making a half-harded effort. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it's a peach of cake.
​

How many errors can you find?

 

[Indypharm]

I am sorry to be the baron of bad news, but you seem buttered, so allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies, and are more than just ice king on the cake. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite.
So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality.
I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the fax, instead of making a half-harded effort. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it's a peach of cake.
​

How many errors can you find?

You are my hero!!!

 

[JanuviaGrl]

I am sorry to be the baron of bad news, but you seem buttered, so allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies, and are more than just ice king on the cake. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite.
So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality.
I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the fax, instead of making a half-harded effort. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it's a peach of cake.
​

How many errors can you find?

Haha. Had fun reading this! 27 errors I found. Didn't double check though, could be more.

 

[Beneamata]

Since I don't want to go through 10+ pages of various discussions....is Northstate an accredited school or not and should I bother applying there for fall 2013?

Thanks!

 

[cycloketocaine]

Since I don't want to go through 10+ pages of various discussions....is Northstate an accredited school or not and should I bother applying there for fall 2013?

Thanks!

No it is not fully accredited. It is in candidate status, which it was in last year. It could've been given full this past summer, but ACPE had some concerns and thus, it wasn't granted this status.

Should you apply? It wouldn't be my first choice if I was in your shoes.

 

[moolman]

I would apply, beggars can't be choosers, with the amount of money they put into the school chances are high that they will get accredited. If it's the only school you get into why wouldn't you apply. If you're even thinking about applying to this school that means that you know your chances are slim in getting into all the others schools in CA and maybe any other school in the country. So I don't know why you wouldn't apply because you think you're so much better than the school considering that YOU are the bottom of the barrel candidate that should be applying in the first place....

 

[confettiflyer]

Since I don't want to go through 10+ pages of various discussions....is Northstate an accredited school or not and should I bother applying there for fall 2013?

Thanks!

don't want to read 11 pages about the next 4 years of your life, a $150-200,000 expense?

i have a bridge to sell you...

 

[confettiflyer]

Update 8/8/12

So one of my sources told me that construction has stopped at the California Northstate medical school campus in Elk Grove, CA...allegedly due to a cash crunch and low reserves.

Bet they can't wait for that new pharmacy class to come in to pay tuition so they can funnel it to the medical school.

I'm thinking investors are planning for a pharmacy school closure and are putting their focus on a new medical school as a way to recoup their investment. I know that's what I would want to do as an investor.

Oh by the way this guy has been at the CA Northstate medical school campus 5x in the last 60 days:

Anyone recognize him?

 

[RobertHorry]

Update 8/8/12

So one of my sources told me that construction has stopped at the California Northstate medical school campus in Elk Grove, CA...allegedly due to a cash crunch and low reserves.

Bet they can't wait for that new pharmacy class to come in to pay tuition so they can funnel it to the medical school.

I'm thinking investors are planning for a pharmacy school closure and are putting their focus on a new medical school as a way to recoup their investment. I know that's what I would want to do as an investor.

Oh by the way this guy has been at the CA Northstate medical school campus 5x in the last 60 days:

Anyone recognize him?

https://foursquare.com/quackarazzi

 

[RobertHorry]

https://foursquare.com/quackarazzi

http://www.linkedin.com/in/ahsanawan

 

[confettiflyer]

Ah he's a development guy $$$$$

 

[moolman]

Come on don't scare the kids about CNCP closing. Once they get over the hump of opening up the medical school, the pharmacy school is just printing money. Even you state that when the new class pays tuition, they'll use the rest of the money to pay for the med school, why close it down. That school is as good as the US mint for making money at this point. They spent enough money to pay for the start up cost for the school the past 4 years, hence, excess money to do the med school. There's way too much money and plenty of profit involved to keep both schools open.

BTW CNCP isn't the only Pharmacy school keeping another school open, think of a school like UOP, 200+ grads a year and all they have is an old rotunda and one new building. They main school stays alive because of the pharm school.

 

[297point1]

I'm thinking investors are planning for a pharmacy school closure and are putting their focus on a new medical school as a way to recoup their investment.

Almost everything you post on SDN is grounded in fact and often researched extensively.

Why are you now engaging in rather wild speculation? Just curious...this isn't your usual m.o.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Almost everything you post on SDN is grounded in fact and often researched extensively.

Why are you now engaging in rather wild speculation? Just curious...this isn't your usual m.o.

Agree, there is no way that this was the plan for CNCP. I'm sure they counted on many, many years of profitability from the pharmacy school, and not some fly-by-night get rich quick scheme.

 

[confettiflyer]

Almost everything you post on SDN is grounded in fact and often researched extensively.

Why are you now engaging in rather wild speculation? Just curious...this isn't your usual m.o.

Yes I'm aware, though my statement on investment is definitely speculation, it's grounded in some logic. I put myself in an investor's role. The accreditation of the pharmacy school is essentially out of my hands, I can't just pour money into it and hope it gets better. The medical school at least has potential, I would divert money into that.

Agree, there is no way that this was the plan for CNCP. I'm sure they counted on many, many years of profitability from the pharmacy school, and not some fly-by-night get rich quick scheme.

Agreed, it wasn't the plan initially...but neither was failing to achieve accreditation by 2012. Ship is sinking, the goal becomes "extract as much money as you can and put it in the highest performing part of the corporation."

To do otherwise would be a breach of fiduciary duty on the part of California Northstate University, LLC and its holding/parent company.

 

[confettiflyer]

Even you state that when the new class pays tuition, they'll use the rest of the money to pay for the med school, why close it down.

ACPE doesn't give a flying hockey puck whether the school is print Benjamins or not...or, at least I hope not.

 

[moolman]

ACPE doesn't give a flying hockey puck whether the school is print Benjamins or not...or, at least I hope not.

You make it sound as if getting accredited is that hard, trained monkeys can get a pharmacy school accredited. Now that they failed once, they will actually train the monkeys this time and they will be trained monkeys, hence be accredited. ACPE has mighty low standards and with the trained monkeys in place the school will get accredited, way too much money involved for it not to be.

 

[confettiflyer]

aaand it appears my source was correct, confirmed today (8/10/12):

Medical school slows construction
Elk Grove campus plan is changing — and fundraising continues
Sacramento Business Journal by Kathy Robertson, Senior Staff Writer
Date: Friday, August 10, 2012, 3:00am PDT

Construction of a for-profit medical school in Elk Grove has slowed as management considers changes to the site plan and faces an Aug. 15 deadline to file additional accreditation documents.

The California Northstate University College of Medicine needs to win approval as a candidate for accreditation in order to begin enrollment, as planned, next summer. A site visit by accreditation investigators is expected this fall, with possible approval next year.

People inside the school who would speak only on condition of anonymity say it’s more complicated. Construction of the medical campus was put on hold more than a month ago...

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen.../08/10/medical-school-slows-construction.html

 

[confettiflyer]

 

[Citrix]

It requires $100 million to start a med school? = O

 

[lakeboy]

Did you catch the caption under the picture &#8230;.and "then" Dean Robert Suskind? So did he abandon this sinking ship too? The College has a really high turnover of key people.
I have heard the number $150M to start a medical school what's $50M among friends!

 

[pharmhustle]

He has been a dean elsewhere, and "He was fired with great cause and great deliberation and with consensus among the entire university leadership,"

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/092807/loc_092807066.shtml

 

[297point1]

He has been a dean elsewhere, and "He was fired with great cause and great deliberation and with consensus among the entire university leadership"

I'm speechless...

 

[confettiflyer]

I'm speechless...

so the first dean runs away before the school even opens for business

the 2nd dean was fired from his last job

the current dean was allegedly demoted before coming over to CNCP.


man this place attracts top flight faculty and students! (more on that later)

 

[confettiflyer]

New Update: August 15, 2012

Spoke to my source today. Turns out the Sac Business Journal article above pretty much outed the fact that they're running out of money. Looks like the board of trustees is going to announce soon that they will suspend construction of their medical school.

You can see where this is going...a school going broke doesn't exactly make for great accreditation case with ACPE.

That said, they're allegedly pulling the bottom of the barrel with this entering class. I don't know if this is a change from before, but their minimum GPA is worded below:

"The preferred overall GPA is 2.80 on a 4.00 scale."

Source: http://www.californiacollegeofpharm...t&view=article&id=174:faq&catid=35:admissions

Appears again as "minimum preferred" so they are definitely free to accept anyone/everyone with a 2.0 GPA. Clever wording, though.

That's all today!

 

[PharmtoCS]

New Update: August 15, 2012

Spoke to my source today. Turns out the Sac Business Journal article above pretty much outed the fact that they're running out of money. Looks like the board of trustees is going to announce soon that they will suspend construction of their medical school.

You can see where this is going...a school going broke doesn't exactly make for great accreditation case with ACPE.

That said, they're allegedly pulling the bottom of the barrel with this entering class. I don't know if this is a change from before, but their minimum GPA is worded below:

"The preferred overall GPA is 2.80 on a 4.00 scale."

Source: http://www.californiacollegeofpharm...t&view=article&id=174:faq&catid=35:admissions

Appears again as "minimum preferred" so they are definitely free to accept anyone/everyone with a 2.0 GPA. Clever wording, though.

That's all today!

When I applied, I was rejected because my GPA was under 2.8 at that time, which was the minimum requirement. Guess things have changed by now. Also, I'm glad that I got rejected and decided to go to a reputable out of state school.

 

[BMBiology]

That said, they're allegedly pulling the bottom of the barrel with this entering class. I don't know if this is a change from before, but their minimum GPA is worded below:

"The preferred overall GPA is 2.80 on a 4.00 scale."

Source: http://www.californiacollegeofpharm...t&view=article&id=174:faq&catid=35:admissions

Appears again as "minimum preferred" so they are definitely free to accept anyone/everyone with a 2.0 GPA. Clever wording, though.

That's all today!

"What is the School's GPA requirement?

The preferred overall GPA is 2.80 on a 4.00 scale. The average cumulative GPA of admitted students for the academic year 2011/2012 was 3.21 on a 4.00 scale."

I wonder what is their class overall gpa? most likely it is lower than their "admitted students" gpa since many will decide not to attend CNCP.

 

[confettiflyer]

"What is the School's GPA requirement?

The preferred overall GPA is 2.80 on a 4.00 scale. The average cumulative GPA of admitted students for the academic year 2011/2012 was 3.21 on a 4.00 scale."

I wonder what is their class overall gpa? most likely it is lower than their "admitted students" gpa since many will decide not to attend CNCP.

Ooh good catch, almost missed this one. Looks like one of the points I hit on from my internal source a few weeks ago was correct, that administration was interfering with admission standards to boost application fee revenue.

This internal info, taken with this GPA policy change and the ACPE comment alluding to improper interference by admin makes this point credible.

Damn, I'm starting to think it's not so much the students or the faculty....it's that tool of a president Alvin Chung or whatever his name is.

 

[cncp]

New Update: August 15, 2012

Spoke to my source today. Turns out the Sac Business Journal article above pretty much outed the fact that they're running out of money. Looks like the board of trustees is going to announce soon that they will suspend construction of their medical school.

You can see where this is going...a school going broke doesn't exactly make for great accreditation case with ACPE.

That said, they're allegedly pulling the bottom of the barrel with this entering class. I don't know if this is a change from before, but their minimum GPA is worded below:

"The preferred overall GPA is 2.80 on a 4.00 scale."

Source: http://www.californiacollegeofpharm...t&view=article&id=174:faq&catid=35:admissions

Appears again as "minimum preferred" so they are definitely free to accept anyone/everyone with a 2.0 GPA. Clever wording, though.

That's all today!

Confettiflyer, Thank you for sharing your sources info regarding CNCP. So far you have been right about most of the things you have mentioned. Please continue on keeping us posted on what you find out.

What are your/sources thoughts on CNCP getting fully accredited in the summer of 2013?

 

[cncp]

"California Northstate University officials said they now hope to begin medical school enrollment in July 2014."

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...8/17/delay-launch-private-medical-school.html

 

[confettiflyer]

What are your/sources thoughts on CNCP getting fully accredited in the summer of 2013?

my sources are cautiously optimistic about full accreditation. I actually do think they'll eventually get accredited but they'll practically bankrupt themselves in the process.

If I were a professor there I'd start secretly shopping my CV around. I'm sure retention issues are going to pop up.

No matter, the free market will dictate how employable these grads are and after skimming the top, the underperforming grads are in for a difficult time job hunting unless they fan out to rural areas or accept <FT work.

 

[prettycat]

 

[confettiflyer]

hahaha...

hahahahha.....

hahahhahahahah.....

 

[confettiflyer]

Score! Found the alleged original review, it's pretty funny to read. Notice the substandard English. Bolded portions for emphasis (mine). The toilet paper quote makes me think this could be a fake, caveat emptor.

http://tinyurl.com/d4x3fqc

Parlor T,

I am the president and founder of California Northstate University. I would like to addresses your unfounded claims. Your claims is false because of many reasons, which I shall refute in details.

On the whole, our tuitions is VERY affordable. For this upcoming year, we estimate tuition will be ~72K, including costs of living. This is what you youngster call "chump change." When you graduates, you will be making six figures. In fact, many of our investors wanted to raise tuition, to which I told them "we need to bring value to our students." As President, I makes sure each and every student is treated fairly and provided value. Now I get into the refutation.

#1 - CNUCOP provides an unparalleled value.

We offer many amenities to our students, many other schools dont provide. For example:

* State of the art email system
* Comfortable regulated indoor temperature
* FREE parking - many schools are starting to charge money for students to park their vehicles. At CNUCOP, we want to take care of the students and for now, parking will remain free as a gesture of goodwill.
* Microwaves and refrigerators available for student use
* We have top-notch security to insure the safety of students
* High-quality paper towels and toilet paper. Our annual budget for this luxury exceeds $2,500
* A IT professional to monitor student emails to insure the safety of each student from bombings and violence

We also offer many perks to our faculty member:

* Unparalleled insurance package
* Free parking
* Access to the greater scientific journals in our era
* Full-time librarian in Dr. Scott Minor to aid in literature search

If we wanted to raise tuition more, we could. My years of experience at Kaiser in the open market demands a salary rivals CEOS of many health companies. I chosen to pay myself far below market value to keep tuition costs low. Our # 1 priority has and always will be the students, as evidenced by what I outlined above.