Called an NP a midlevel...

[mwsapphire]

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Bruh...

In some ways, they do. Nurses do a lot of the nitty, gritty stuff that doctors aren't willing to do and feel is beneath them. In some ways, they do work harder than doctors.

 

[787593]

WELL then how come you don't have a 545 MCAT???

Short term memory loss.

 

[mwsapphire]

Short term memory loss.

Do you sthuffer from short term memb-memb-membory loss? ( Finding Dory)

 

[787593]

In some ways, they do. Nurses do a lot of the nitty, gritty stuff that doctors aren't willing to do and feel is beneath them. In some ways, they do work harder than doctors.

Yeah, but why bother rustling the jimmies?!? LOL

 

[787593]

Yes.

Do you sthuffer from short term memb-memb-membory loss? ( Finding Dory)

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Bruh...

I legitimately do. BTW my definition of working harder is doing the dirty work and longer hours. Nurse working 12 hr shifts cleaning a patient that **** himself is way worse than being a doctor lol

 

[gonnif]

Right, and my question was - who cares?

RNs do not care about NPs being midlevels.
Vast majority of PAs do not care about being midlevels.
A small minority of NPs who are super insecure and want to pretend they are something they are not are the only ones who care.

As a medical student, you should have your facts in order prior to making inaccurate statements (though it doesnt seem to impact the current president).

The term midlevel is formally opposed by the major American professional associations of Nurse Practitioners, Physician Assistants, and Nurses in general as well as some professional Physician Associations

American Academy of Physician Assistants
https://www.aapa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Policy-Manual-16-17.pdf
HP-3100.1.3AAPA believes that, whenever possible, PAs should be referred to as “physician assistants” and not combined with other providers in inclusive non-specific terms such as “midlevel practitioner”, “advanced practice clinician”, or “advanced practice provider”.[Adopted 2008, reaffirmed 2013]

American Pediatric Surgical Nurses Association
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.apsna....n-statements/PositionStatement_MLP_Final_.pdf
APSNA Position: APSNA endorses the consensus statement issued by AANP on the use of terms such as mid-level provider and physician extender.

Emergency Nurses Association
https://www.ena.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Position Statements/Joint/AANPNPConsensusStatement.pdf
ENA Position: ENA endorses the consensus statement issued by AANP on the use of terms such as mid-level provider and physician extender.

Medicare/CMS
https://www.acep.org/Clinical---Practice-Management/Medicare-Mid-Level-Provider-FAQ/
FAQ 1. What is a Non-Physician Practitioner (NPP) and how does the definition apply in the ED? What is the appropriate terminology for NPs and PAs in the ED?
An NPP in the ED is defined by Medicare as either a nurse practitioner (NP) or a physician assistant (PA). Of note, there is no agreed upon terminology that encompasses NPs and PAs in the ED. In grouping these providers, the DEA uses the term "midlevels" while the Federal agencies use a variety of references. For the sake of this FAQ, NPs and PAs will be referred to as advanced practice providers (APPs), as this seems to be gaining favor.

American College of Emergency Physicians (in support of Society of Emergency Medicine Physician Assistants)
http://www.acepnow.com/title-physician-assistant
The policy of the Society of Emergency Medicine Physician Assistants (SEMPA) is that physician assistants should only be referred to by the title “physician assistant” or the common abbreviation PA. In the case of an emergency medicine physician assistant, the abbreviation EMPA is also acceptable.
SEMPA opposes the use of terminology such as mid-level provider, physician extender, physician’s assistant, and non-physician provider when referring to a physician assistant.


It should also be noted the term "Mid-Level-Provider" was formally defined and implemented as a final rule by the DEA in 1993 in order provide a classification for
"DEA registrations granting controlled substances privileges consistent with the authority granted them under state law." Undoubtedly, this is where the term flowed from down thru state regulation in order to closely match terminology from the DEA.

 

[libertyyne]

There's actually a big difference though- osteopaths are those educated outside of the United States in colleges of osteopathy. They do not prescribe or administer medication, and are not trained in modern or mainstream medicine. It's actually illegal for a DO to call themselves an osteopath in Australia for this reason- it's an entirely separate profession, more akin to chiropractic than American osteopathic medicine.

But they do practice osteopathy as well , dont they?

 

[787593]

I legitimately do. BTW my definition of working harder is doing the dirty work and longer hours. Nurse working 12 hr shifts cleaning a patient that **** himself is way worse than being a doctor lol

 

[787593]

As a medical student, you should have your facts in order prior to making inaccurate statements (though it doesnt seem to impact the current president).

The term midlevel is formally opposed by the major American professional associations of Nurse Practitioners, Physician Assistants, and Nurses in general as well as some professional Physician Associations

American Academy of Physician Assistants
https://www.aapa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Policy-Manual-16-17.pdf
HP-3100.1.3AAPA believes that, whenever possible, PAs should be referred to as “physician assistants” and not combined with other providers in inclusive non-specific terms such as “midlevel practitioner”, “advanced practice clinician”, or “advanced practice provider”.[Adopted 2008, reaffirmed 2013]

American Pediatric Surgical Nurses Association
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.apsna....n-statements/PositionStatement_MLP_Final_.pdf
APSNA Position: APSNA endorses the consensus statement issued by AANP on the use of terms such as mid-level provider and physician extender.

Emergency Nurses Association
https://www.ena.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Position Statements/Joint/AANPNPConsensusStatement.pdf
ENA Position: ENA endorses the consensus statement issued by AANP on the use of terms such as mid-level provider and physician extender.

Medicare/CMS
https://www.acep.org/Clinical---Practice-Management/Medicare-Mid-Level-Provider-FAQ/
FAQ 1. What is a Non-Physician Practitioner (NPP) and how does the definition apply in the ED? What is the appropriate terminology for NPs and PAs in the ED?
An NPP in the ED is defined by Medicare as either a nurse practitioner (NP) or a physician assistant (PA). Of note, there is no agreed upon terminology that encompasses NPs and PAs in the ED. In grouping these providers, the DEA uses the term "midlevels" while the Federal agencies use a variety of references. For the sake of this FAQ, NPs and PAs will be referred to as advanced practice providers (APPs), as this seems to be gaining favor.

American College of Emergency Physicians (in support of Society of Emergency Medicine Physician Assistants)
http://www.acepnow.com/title-physician-assistant
The policy of the Society of Emergency Medicine Physician Assistants (SEMPA) is that physician assistants should only be referred to by the title “physician assistant” or the common abbreviation PA. In the case of an emergency medicine physician assistant, the abbreviation EMPA is also acceptable.
SEMPA opposes the use of terminology such as mid-level provider, physician extender, physician’s assistant, and non-physician provider when referring to a physician assistant.


It should also be noted the term "Mid-Level-Provider" was formally defined and implemented as a final rule by the DEA in 1993 in order provide a classification for
"DEA registrations granting controlled substances privileges consistent with the authority granted them under state law." Undoubtedly, this is where the term flowed from down thru state regulation in order to closely match terminology from the DEA.

 

[mwsapphire]

View attachment 216014

You're still an undergrad. Don't get cocky/entitled just yet. 😉

 

[mwsapphire]

View attachment 216014

Do you seriously believe a doctor would be willing to clean a patient who s*** themselves? Do you really think nurses don't deserve recognition for that? You aren't even a medical student yet?

 

[787593]

You're still an undergrad. Don't get cocky/entitled just yet. 😉

Do you seriously believe a doctor would be willing to clean a patient who s*** themselves? Do you really think nurses don't deserve recognition for that? You aren't even a medical student yet?

I just thought the dog was cute...

 

[mwsapphire]

I just thought the dog was cute...

It was a grumpy dog. It was to represent a grumpy face.

My kitten in a bowl is cuter.

 

[3member]

ooo has this thread derailed to dog vs cat now?

Do you seriously believe a doctor would be willing to clean a patient who s*** themselves? Do you really think nurses don't deserve recognition for that? You aren't even a medical student yet?

yes. i find it ironic how you want others to stop stereotyping nurses/nps, while you are doing the same

 

[mwsapphire]

ooo has this thread derailed to dog vs cat now?



yes. i find it ironic how you want others to stop stereotyping nurses/nps, while you are doing the same

okay sorry. It's just that some docs do consider that to be a "nurses job" while simultaneously degrading nurses. Kind of like when people say " stay in school or you'll be a loser who works at McDonalds" but still eats BigMacs at like 2 am.

 

[810390]

I can see how calling someone a midlevel would give them an inferiority complex, and cause them to redirect that in anger. The term labels them as healthcare providers at the intermediate level, but it could be misinterpreted as a remark that they're providing healthcare, generally, at a subpar level to physicians. But the thing is, what they do and the assistance they provide is critical to any practice setting.
Using "midlevels" could make them feel as if their work is less important than physicians; physicians can do everything that they can; and that they're a secondary existence in practice.
The OP didn't intend any of this. But we should address them as midlevels only when they're not around. You can't fight human nature head-on here unless modules are in place that clearly addresses NP's and PA's from the beginning of their training that they are mid-level healthcare providers. Even if some really can't, they do want to be the best at what they do...
Off paperwork, you should address NP's and PA's as nurses, NPs, PAs, or NPs and PAs.

Nobody responded to this. I'm assuming everyone's content with this and agrees with it completely.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Hey if we're moving this onto a doggo v. cates debate lemme grab my meme flashdrive, I got a billion pics saved for this kinda stuff

 

[libertyyne]

Nobody responded to this. I'm assuming everyone's content with this and agrees with it completely.

No, we are ignoring a high school student who has not idea about anything.

 

[3member]

@mwsapphire you are absolutely right.

the issue is that those people probably fail to realize that every role (whether it be PA, NP, MD, lab tech) is essential for a good healthcare team. there are different roles for a reason--doesn't mean one is "better" than another. it's just the way it has to be for us to give good patient care (which i am sure you know, but this is for all the people who think their education or position makes them "superior" to everyone).

but on the flip side, i also think that there are some nurses/pas/nps who should also give that same understanding towards physicians who are the leaders of the healthcare team. both sides are guilty of this, which possibly has the potential in hurting the patient in the long run

..and i'm all for doggo =)

 

[mwsapphire]

Don't worry @LordLana Libertyyne looks down on everyone.

 

[aalamruad]

I legitimately do. BTW my definition of working harder is doing the dirty work and longer hours. Nurse working 12 hr shifts cleaning a patient that **** himself is way worse than being a doctor lol

😕

On average, doctors work over 20 hours/week more than nurses do (62.5 vs 38)

 

[gonnif]

It was a grumpy dog. It was to represent a grumpy face.

My kitten in a bowl is cuter.

I actually interpreted as having a dog in this fight, but it appears I was barking up the wrong tree

 

[810390]

No, we are ignoring a high school student who has not idea about anything.

Assuming you're somehow smarter than a high school student is pitiful, and a fallacy.

However it's clear in this case that, because my comment is completely correct, you don't have anything to say in response. You instead resort to childish insults and criticism because either: you're unsatisfied with some present life issues, or you feel that you'll suppress your inferiority complex by typing it out in an angry way.

I can be your therapist. Private message me.

 

[libertyyne]

Assuming you're somehow smarter than a high school student is pitiful, and a fallacy.

However it's clear in this case that, because my comment is completely correct, you don't have anything to say in response. You instead resort to childish insults and criticism because either: you're unsatisfied with some present life issues, or you feel that you'll suppress your inferiority complex by typing it out in an angry way.

I can be your therapist. Private message me.

lol. I hope you dont have a cringe induced heart attack reading this in 5 years.

 

[cactusman]

I feel like every popular thread created in the last 3 days has eventually devolved into a childish argument between 2 to 3 people.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Direction of this thread

 

[787593]

Don't worry @LordLana Libertyyne looks down on everyone.

Don't be hatin' on my boy @libertyyne lol

 

[Gurkhali]

Veering WAY off topic guys. Move over to the social thread before we get this locked (for the wrong reasons)

What're the right reasons to get a thread locked? Is it partying too hard?

I feel like every popular thread created in the last 3 days has eventually devolved into a childish argument between 2 to 3 people.

A lot of self-righteous premeds in this thread. Just post your opinion and move on, kids.

 

[787593]

I actually interpreted as having a dog in this fight, but it appears I was barking up the wrong tree

Yessssss!

 

[810390]

lol. I hope you dont have a cringe induced heart attack reading this in 5 years.

It's true. Instead of refuting my comment, you're still talking like a sixth grader.

Grow up and comment against it, libertyyne. Don't disappoint your parents.

 

[787593]

I feel like every popular thread created in the last 3 days has eventually devolved into a childish argument between 2 to 3 people.

Nuh uh!

 

[piii]

I actually interpreted as having a dog in this fight, but it appears I was barking up the wrong tree

You must be having a ruff time then

 

[libertyyne]

It's true. Instead of refuting my comment, you're still being a brainless child.

Grow up and comment against it, libertyyne.

Man, I would start taking Asprin right now. It might just be a widow maker if you keep this up.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well then CLEARLY , CLEARLY, you're an A**Hole. OBVIOUSLY.

It doesn't make anyone an dingus, it's just one of those things that's mildly annoying to someone that's in a particular field, like calling an EMT an ambulance driver. It's just annoying, as it implies something different than reality, but no one's going to think much of it aside from an "ugh."

 

[Mad Jack]

But they do practice osteopathy as well , dont they?

That's why we're osteopathic physicians. Osteopaths are not physicians, hence by calling a DO an osteopath, you are implying they are not physicians. It's a nomenclature thing, but, as jdh would say, words mean things.

 

[810390]

Man, I would start taking Asprin right now. It might just be a widow maker if you keep this up.

Absolutely pathetic. You're playing word games with a high school student instead of supporting your criticism against him.

I'm going to enroll you in IBSL Philosophy next semester...

 

[mwsapphire]

It doesn't make anyone an dingus, it's just one of those things that's mildly annoying to someone that's in a particular field, like calling an EMT an ambulance driver. It's just annoying, as it implies something different than reality, but no one's going to think much of it aside from an "ugh."

Dude. that was a joke XD

 

[cactusman]

Sometimes the best response in an argument is walking away.

 

[libertyyne]

What is fascinating in this entire thing is that is that PA's arent offended by the term, it seems like NPs take the most offense. It might just speak to the political agenda NPs have to gain full autonomy.

 

[810390]

Sometimes the best response in an argument is walking away.

That would be surrendering your position and admitting defeat.

 

[Lucca]

This thread has run its course.

Closing