Can anyone describe the actual scope of practice in Massachusetts?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Carpe Phalanges

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
61
Reaction score
49
Hello!

There was a discussion going on over in the DPM Students forum about residencies in the northeast, and there was quite a bit of confusion over what the scope of practice is in MA. It seems DPMs associated with residencies like Mount Auburn are doing TARs and other full scope procedures, and the state's board seems to define podiatry expansively. At the same time, state law still defines podiatry only as encompassing the foot (excluding amputations) and the Massachusetts Foot and Ankle Society has many posts on their website about current legislative efforts to expand the scope of practice beyond the foot. If anyone who is familiar with Mass or who works in Mass could clear this up, that would be great!

Thank you!

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hello!

There was a discussion going on over in the DPM Students forum about residencies in the northeast, and there was quite a bit of confusion over what the scope of practice is in MA. It seems DPMs associated with residencies like Mount Auburn are doing TARs and other full scope procedures, and the state's board seems to define podiatry expansively. At the same time, state law still defines podiatry only as encompassing the foot (excluding amputations) and the Massachusetts Foot and Ankle Society has many posts on their website about current legislative efforts to expand the scope of practice beyond the foot. If anyone who is familiar with Mass or who works in Mass could clear this up, that would be great!

Thank you!

I hope someone with the correct info can reply but have you thought about contacting the Massachusetts Foot and Ankle Society directly?
Their advocacy group seems active. Also, I usually contact the APMA State's rep for such questions.

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I hope someone with the correct info can reply but have you thought about contacting the Massachusetts Foot and Ankle Society directly?
Their advocacy group seems active. Also, I usually contact the APMA State's rep for such questions.

Thanks for the advice! I did send an email to MFAS a couple days ago, but haven't heard anything yet. I'll see who else I can reach out to and will post any update that I might get!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
The interesting thing is that they cite the CMR (i.e. board of podiatry definition) in the table, which in reality now includes the ankle as of 2017, but then later cite the General Law (i.e. the reduced scope of practice) when they quote the scope of practice definition in the state. And there are definitely Mass DPMs (e.g. Total ankle replacement surgery offers pain relief for Boston patients) performing TARs, so it's rather confusing. Some were saying in the other thread regarding residencies in the northeast that certain hospitals in MA just allow their DPMs to practice beyond their scope, but that seems like it can't be the full story...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Roast me if I am wrong, but there is de facto scope that may allow it. If everyone agrees it’s okay (hospital admin, colleagues [ortho/pod]) and the provider can proved a level of achieved skill/competence there can be de facto privileging despite what may be gray in state law. This is the same for ankle disarticulation in some areas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm following this too.

I was always under the impression that you follow the Board of Podiatry in terms of scope cause they're the ones who grant us the license.

I hope it's the board that we follow cause that would mean the scope has expanded pretty nicely in MA.

I know in my neighboring area of RI, the pods there are doing cool work involving ankles and the full scope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
...performing TARs...
The correct question with TARs (and many other things podiatry) is not "can?" but "why?"

A lot of things look cool on Xray, rep ads, theory, conference booth, maybe reimbursement, youtube animation video, etc. This applies to TAR, other implants, fancy fixation, amnio/BAT stuff, expensive DME, etc etc. The question should really be how the results are (long term), how cost effective it is, if it will substantially help the patient or just the surgeon ego, and if you'd actually consider them for your own mom/dad should they had ever have pathology. Follow-up is the enemy of "good" ideas (look at the powe-diatry graveyard of silastics, absorbable pins/screws, regranex, sclerosing injects, Oasis, etc etc etc). The anatomy doesn't change. You need to use good diagnostic and surgical techniques over simply fancy new technologies.

We can read, so we know the real answers (non-sponsored literature). In the end, each doc can do what they like. The TAR literature will say they are at best equal to fusions (which cost less, have lower skill curve, wider candidate activity/health/age/etc criteria, and fewer resultant amps and revisions). Sure, the TAR proponents (and rep cronies) try to make up higher function scores for the TARs in their pubs and lectures by saying patients like them even if they have more revisions and amps, but that's not objective.... and read the study financing for 95% of those. Personally, and correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen any literature on TARs helping the surgeon's anterior underwear size to grow, but I have seen plenty of TARs get infected and go BKA or get revised many times. I know many skilled and cert surgeons (both ortho and pod) who have done TARs and chose to quit or greatly narrowed their indications for them. It's a personal decision. Many times, the decision for ankle arthrosis is actually to do an Arizona brace and call it a day since they aren't a decent surgical candidate at all... but surely somebody would do a TAR on that same patient if you searched far and wide. Sure, I would make a lot more RVUs if I did more first MPJ implants and revisions on them... and less Valente or fusions as I actually do, but I don't tend to enjoy creating potential apropulsive gait or short first MPJ with lesser met problems that's hard for me or anyone to revise, so I might stick to just following the the literature and aiming for good long term foot stability. I dunno.

In the end, TARs will be a very small of the practice for 99% of DPMs... often zero percent. The majority of F&A orthos do not perform them either (philosophy, training, or both). Even for those surgeons who like them, the indications are pretty narrow (neuropathy, BMI, smoker, active, etc contra) and revisions will be frequent and very sad and complicated. As in anything surgery, the research shows that you need volume for best TAR results, and even then, they are at *best* equal to fusions (in short/med term... in the biased results that are sponsored or surgeon self-eval and self-pub). TAR is a fine thing to know about and to be aware of for boards or for patients who have gobbled up the marketing pitch on TV or internet, but you don't need to make it a big focus. I always offer patients who ask about TAR or who fit the indications to go to a center/doc that does many (since I am philosophically against them), but if any took me up on that, I would fear the worst and half expect them to come limping back years later with a loose implant and a 9cm bone defect for me to try to fuse. Ankle fusion should be in the toolbox of any RRA surgeon (esp TAR surgeons!), and it is much more frequently indicated and reasonably considered. You can get by without that fusion too, though (and 85% of DPMs probably do?)... simply do scope/recon if indicated early, PT, Ariz braces and injects, and refer to a skilled RRA guy in your area for fusion consult if the pt is a fair surgical candidate and that stuff doesn't work to their satisfaction.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
The correct question with TARs (and many other things podiatry) is not "can?" but "why?"

A lot of things look cool on Xray, rep ads, theory, conference booth, maybe reimbursement, youtube animation video, etc. This applies to TAR, other implants, fancy fixation, amnio/BAT stuff, expensive DME, etc etc. The question should really be how the results are (long term), how cost effective it is, if it will substantially help the patient or just the surgeon ego, and if you'd actually consider them for your own mom/dad should they had ever have pathology. Follow-up is the enemy of "good" ideas (look at the powe-diatry graveyard of silastics, absorbable pins/screws, regranex, sclerosing injects, Oasis, etc etc etc). The anatomy doesn't change. You need to use good diagnostic and surgical techniques over simply fancy new technologies.

We can read, so we know the real answers (non-sponsored literature). In the end, each doc can do what they like. The TAR literature will say they are at best equal to fusions (which cost less, have lower skill curve, wider candidate activity/health/age/etc criteria, and fewer resultant amps and revisions). Sure, the TAR proponents (and rep cronies) try to make up higher function scores for the TARs in their pubs and lectures by saying patients like them even if they have more revisions and amps, but that's not objective.... and read the study financing for 95% of those. Personally, and correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen any literature on TARs helping the surgeon's anterior underwear size to grow, but I have seen plenty of TARs get infected and go BKA or get revised many times. I know many skilled and cert surgeons (both ortho and pod) who have done TARs and chose to quit or greatly narrowed their indications for them. It's a personal decision. Many times, the decision for ankle arthrosis is actually to do an Arizona brace and call it a day since they aren't a decent surgical candidate at all... but surely somebody would do a TAR on that same patient if you searched far and wide. Sure, I would make a lot more RVUs if I did more first MPJ implants and revisions on them... and less Valente or fusions as I actually do, but I don't tend to enjoy creating potential apropulsive gait or short first MPJ with lesser met problems that's hard for me or anyone to revise, so I might stick to just following the the literature and aiming for good long term foot stability. I dunno.

In the end, TARs will be a very small of the practice for 99% of DPMs... often zero percent. The majority of F&A orthos do not perform them either (philosophy, training, or both). Even for those surgeons who like them, the indications are pretty narrow (neuropathy, BMI, smoker, active, etc contra) and revisions will be frequent and very sad and complicated. As in anything surgery, the research shows that you need volume for best TAR results, and even then, they are at *best* equal to fusions (in short/med term... in the biased results that are sponsored or surgeon self-eval and self-pub). TAR is a fine thing to know about and to be aware of for boards or for patients who have gobbled up the marketing pitch on TV or internet, but you don't need to make it a big focus. I always offer patients who ask about TAR or who fit the indications to go to a center/doc that does many (since I am philosophically against them), but if any took me up on that, I would fear the worst and half expect them to come limping back years later with a loose implant and a 9cm bone defect for me to try to fuse. Ankle fusion should be in the toolbox of any RRA surgeon (esp TAR surgeons!), and it is much more frequently indicated and reasonably considered. You can get by without that fusion too, though (and 85% of DPMs probably do?)... simply do scope/recon if indicated early, PT, Ariz braces and injects, and refer to a skilled RRA guy in your area for fusion consult if the pt is a fair surgical candidate and that stuff doesn't work to their satisfaction.
A little harsh on TARs but also probably pretty accurate.

Of the 15ish TARs I did or was involved with in residency 2 ended with BKA. The attendings putting them in were regularly putting them in/skilled at doing them. 5 of those 15 were revisions from the first that failed. Revisions get pretty tricky and would be very hard to convert to fusion later with all the bone loss.

I personally dont offer the procedure. I've thought about it and i have been approached by hospital admin about it but so far I have declined mostly because I dont have the volume to be proficient at them. I would do <5 a year at most if I did them and thats not enough. I fuse about 5 ankles a year and refer out 2-5 for TAR because thats what the patient wants.

I dont know anything about Massachusetts (thats a hard one to spell) but a phone call to the state board would be where I start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
TAR commentary
Appreciate your take. I've been to ACFAS twice and TAR seems to get more "popular" (hyped) every year. The last time I went at one of the "what would you do sections" I'm pretty sure I saw a story of a 30ish year old with ankle arthritis being told they needed TAR so they could enjoy the best years of their life with ankle motion and then they can always be fused later. I'm skeptical that is in that patient's interest.

For all the TAR talk - I don't really think there are that many being done. The amount of lecturing on it is grossly disproportionate to the number being performed.

A friend of mine went to a program that regularly did TAR. I was at a conference where a resident was presenting a case of a TAR being revised to a fusion over the course of double digit surgeries. He later told me that an internal review of TAR cases done by the program suggested that most should never have been performed.
I personally dont offer the procedure. I've thought about it and i have been approached by hospital admin about it but so far I have declined mostly because I dont have the volume to be proficient at them. I would do <5 a year at most if I did them and thats not enough. I fuse about 5 ankles a year and refer out 2-5 for TAR because thats what the patient wants.
Appreciate the insight on your practice since you are MSK/busy. If I pushed hard on every single ankle arthritis case I saw I think I'd still only hit 5 fusions a year.

I'm in the wrong thread for this, but I'd also l love to know - how much true Charcot realignment/fusions etc are people really doing. How many frames, big midfoot/rearfoot realigning osteotomies are actually happening verse the amount of talk about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I’m currently doing about 4 TARs a year. I’m very selective with the patients that I’ll put them in. No deformity, good bone on CT, not obese, non smoker, all teeth are present, etc. I have them walking in a shoe at 4 weeks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
He later told me that an internal review of TAR cases done by the program suggested that most should never have been performed.

I went to an ACFAS complications lecture 7 years ago for some "big name" programs in the Seattle area.

The big-name programs did their best to show off all the ankle replacements and pilon fractures they were doing, and also the horrific complications and 20+ revisions each one underwent.

The take-home point I took away with was that these patients should never have been operated on to begin with. Except none of the big-name programs mentioned that, all of them were analyzing the dwyer they performed in addition to the ex-fix application in the 90-year-old diabetic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I went to an ACFAS complications lecture 7 years ago for some "big name" programs in the Seattle area.

The big-name programs did their best to show off all the ankle replacements and pilon fractures they were doing, and also the horrific complications and 20+ revisions each one underwent.

The take-home point I took away with was that these patients should never have been operated on to begin with. Except none of the big-name programs mentioned that, all of them were analyzing the dwyer they performed in addition to the ex-fix application in the 90-year-old diabetic.
One of my residency attendings went to a TAR course (that I think was meant to get him into TAR). The complications section was by Schuberth and my attending told me he knew at the end of an hour that he would never ever do a TAR.

I went to the San Antonio ACFAS event and the last day the people who spoke were presenting their complications. Maybe someone else was there for this. Bunch of it pissed me off frankly ie. how many times should you revise an Austin on a 70 year old lady when they'll heal a 1st MPJ with no issue (my belief).

Anyway, they presented a case of a guy with an ankle fracture who was diabetic but not caught and went on to Charcot the ankle fracture and then turned it into an infected mess. They were still cleaning this guy out like a year later and ultimately had plans for some big frame or nail + graft something like that. 20+ surgeries and all that with a million I&Ds and bone biopsies. Some ACFAS douche got up and polled the room basically asking us who else would do what they were doing. My rough poll was that 2/3-3/4ths of the room basically indicated they wouldn't have drawn the thing out and would have offered BKA. The ACFAS guy gave some douchey rebuttal essentially saying we weren't saving legs or something and were betraying our patients. Another ACFAS guy in the crowd walked up to the microphone and gave a reasonable rebuttal. Anyway. There are no shortage of people in this profession who just won't stop cutting.
 
Top