Chance thread, encouragement/reality check

[amakhosidlo]

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So I've read enough of these 'chance' threads that I thought I might as well toss up my situation, for my own personal edification if nothing else...

I'm going to be graduating from a 'top 50' school with a non-science major and a micro minor, and I'm really set on going to med school.
Everyone's telling me to apply to Law School, and despite my LSAT (167)/EC's, my heart's just NOT there.
In fact I've actually been living a bit of a double-life; I intern at a law firm by day, but volunteer in a clinic and hospital by night/weekend. I've got research, a med. internship abroad, and a bunch of community involvement.
All that's really giving me second thoughts about applying to med school are my stats. 3.35 overall (3.75 non-science) and a whopping 3.05 WITH a boost from research classes (2.8 avg in pre-reqs). My lowest grade is a 2.2 in Calc, and an O-chem lab, but since my Junior year I've been on a crazy upward trend (2.9 quarters to 3.7 quarters and consecutive dean's lists pretty much over-night.) I rock upper-division classes now but I'm about to graduate and don't have room for any more (Pushing 210 credits 2 quarters from graduation). I'd apply to SMP programs in the states to prove myself, but I just don't have that kind of money laying around to bet on a 'maybe'.
So I'm really left with Carribean Schools as my only option.

I was wondering whether people thought I stand a chance of getting in somewhere with actual career prospects...

I'm looking at SGU, Ross and St. Matthews, but I'm worried about the fact that St. Matthews and many other schools don't seem to be recognized by some states. Anybody happen to know why that might be?

So how 'bout it? Any words of encouragement from Carib. Alums/students?

 

[oldpro]

All that's really giving me second thoughts about applying to med school are my stats. 3.35 overall (3.75 non-science) and a whopping 3.05 WITH a boost from research classes (2.8 avg in pre-reqs). My lowest grade is a 2.2 in Calc, and an O-chem lab, but since my Junior year I've been on a crazy upward trend (2.9 quarters to 3.7 quarters and consecutive dean's lists pretty much over-night.) I rock upper-division classes now but I'm about to graduate and don't have room for any more (Pushing 210 credits 2 quarters from graduation). I'd apply to SMP programs in the states to prove myself, but I just don't have that kind of money laying around to bet on a 'maybe'.
So I'm really left with Carribean Schools as my only option.

What is the GPA? I'm confused

If it is 3.35 then what is the sci GPA? 3.05? You should apply to DO schools and Caribbean IMHO

 

[Top Gun]

It sounds like he's saying his science GPA is 3.05. To the OP, have you taken the MCAT yet? If you can get at least a 26, I think you should have a pretty good shot at DO and Caribbean schools.

 

[MDPWR]

Give it a shot at Caribbean schools, but remember to pay attention to the schools in Caribbean which are diploma mills and yes they are a lot of them out there.

Do research and then put your money.

 

[Top Gun]

Give it a shot at Caribbean schools, but remember to pay attention to the schools in Caribbean which are diploma mills and yes they are a lot of them out there.

Do research and then put your money.

Agree with this. If you decide to go Caribbean, shoot for these four first:
SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba. These schools are recognized by all 50 states, meaning you will be able to practice anywhere in the US. If you can't get into one of those four, then you can try another Caribbean school, like MUA-Nevis or St. Matthew's. Caveat emptor, though. These schools are not approved by every state, particularly California, meaning there will be limitations on where you can practice in the US, and are also more likely to have lower match rates than the first four schools.

 

[oldpro]

It sounds like he's saying his science GPA is 3.05. To the OP, have you taken the MCAT yet? If you can get at least a 26, I think you should have a pretty good shot at DO and Caribbean schools.

Yes I think the 3.35 and 3.05 with like a 30 MCAT will get a DO acceptance but I would do Caribbean back up.

 

[MDPWR]

Agree with this. If you decide to go Caribbean, shoot for these four first:
SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba. These schools are recognized by all 50 states, meaning you will be able to practice anywhere in the US. If you can't get into one of those four, then you can try another Caribbean school, like MUA-Nevis or St. Matthew's. Caveat emptor, though. These schools are not approved by every state, particularly California, meaning there will be limitations on where you can practice in the US, and are also more likely to have lower match rates than the first four schools.

And the jury said not guilty and agreed with TOPGUN!

 

[Top Gun]

And the jury said not guilty and agreed with TOPGUN!

Thank you, thank you. 🙂

 

[DrMattOglesby]

hey everyone,
i am currently applying to US osteopathic schools right now.

pros about my app

• I have a 3.82 sci GPA and 3.65 overall GPA. (240 credits)
• I have been a lifeguard throughout college and held numerous other jobs
• won florida state judo championship for my weight and level
• competed in many triathlons and currently training for IronMan AZ
• note taker for disabled students in human anatomy
• supplemental instructor for human physiology
• tutor for microbiology
• volunteer tutor for human anatomy
• volunteer soccer coach (x3 seasons)

cons about my app

• I scored a 22-R on the MCAT.

• I am going to be complete within one week of the deadline for most schools.

• All my pre-med courses (except 2 semesters of organic chemistry and one of biochemistry) were taken at a city college.

Just curious how you guys think I would fare at SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba...

-matt

 

[Top Gun]

hey everyone,
i am currently applying to US osteopathic schools right now.

pros about my app

• I have a 3.82 sci GPA and 3.65 overall GPA. (240 credits)
• I have been a lifeguard throughout college and held numerous other jobs
• won florida state judo championship for my weight and level
• competed in many triathlons and currently training for IronMan AZ
• note taker for disabled students in human anatomy
• supplemental instructor for human physiology
• tutor for microbiology
• volunteer tutor for human anatomy
• volunteer soccer coach (x3 seasons)

cons about my app

• I scored a 22-R on the MCAT.

• I am going to be complete within one week of the deadline for most schools.

• All my pre-med courses (except 2 semesters of organic chemistry and one of biochemistry) were taken at a city college.

Just curious how you guys think I would fare at SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba...

-matt

Well, your GPA is certainly very impressive, and you have a lot of good extracurricular activities. IMHO, you have a pretty good shot at the Caribbean. You could try retaking the MCAT to further boost your credentials. I think, though, if you retake the MCAT and score at least
a 30, you might consider applying to US allopathic schools as well. The best route to get into a residency program in the US is really a US allopathic school. Its not that Caribbean med schools aren't good. There are some, like SGU or Ross, that offer an excellent education. However, residency programs in the US tend to prefer grads from US allopathic schools.

 

[oldpro]

hey everyone,
i am currently applying to US osteopathic schools right now.

pros about my app

• I have a 3.82 sci GPA and 3.65 overall GPA. (240 credits)
• I have been a lifeguard throughout college and held numerous other jobs
• won florida state judo championship for my weight and level
• competed in many triathlons and currently training for IronMan AZ
• note taker for disabled students in human anatomy
• supplemental instructor for human physiology
• tutor for microbiology
• volunteer tutor for human anatomy
• volunteer soccer coach (x3 seasons)

cons about my app

• I scored a 22-R on the MCAT.

• I am going to be complete within one week of the deadline for most schools.

• All my pre-med courses (except 2 semesters of organic chemistry and one of biochemistry) were taken at a city college.

Just curious how you guys think I would fare at SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba...

-matt

you should get accepted with many offers from them

 

[puchi]

You would more than likely get in. However I would take the MCAT again and try fo the US.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

You would more than likely get in. However I would take the MCAT again and try fo the US.

well thanks guys...
but just so we are on the same page--are you recommending i apply to USMD schools or USDO schools after a retake of the MCAT?
lets say i get into a USDO school this cycle (with any luck)--what would you do in my shoes if you were capable of performing ~30 on the June MCAT?

 

[Top Gun]

well thanks guys...
but just so we are on the same page--are you recommending i apply to USMD schools or USDO schools after a retake of the MCAT?
lets say i get into a USDO school this cycle (with any luck)--what would you do in my shoes if you were capable of performing ~30 on the June MCAT?

If you do get into a DO school this cycle, take the acceptance. If you don't, then retake the MCAT and, assuming you get about a 30, apply to both MD and DO schools in the US. Unless, of course, you're really into the whole osteopathic/manipulative medicine philosophy. If you are, then just apply to DO schools, I guess. If that fails, then you have a pretty sure shot at Caribbean schools.

 

[oldpro]

well thanks guys...
but just so we are on the same page--are you recommending i apply to USMD schools or USDO schools after a retake of the MCAT?
lets say i get into a USDO school this cycle (with any luck)--what would you do in my shoes if you were capable of performing ~30 on the June MCAT?

OK if you can speak Spanish you can apply to the PR schools (Same as US schools, LCME schools)

With those GPA's MCAT 28 at least for DO and MCAT 30 at least for MD schools

 

[a817]

.

 

[a817]

OK if you can speak Spanish you can apply to the PR schools (Same as US schools, LCME schools)

With those GPA's MCAT 28 at least for DO and MCAT 30 at least for MD schools

why does every one think that the average mcat for a DO school is 28? It is not 28, where did you even get that number... No offense old pro, but i have seen you give this advice to a couple of people and its the wrong advice. Which makes people think they have no shot. Once again i am not trying to start anything, but i fell you are wrong and read my argument.

The average mcat is 25.2 and gpa is 3.45 go to the aacomas website and they will tell you that it is their average. If you dont still believe the site, then go through md apps and discussion threads and see the stats of most acceptees in DO schools. If you still dont believe that then pay for usnews premium and they will tell you their averages. I challenge you to prove me wrong, and find a reputable source that states the average mcat for DO is 28. I know DMU, umdnj and UNT is around 27 but their are 15-20 more DO school out there with lower averages. With that being said i am living proof that is the average. my gpa is 3.63gpa 3.38sci and a 26o mcat and i got 5 interviews and mind you i took the mcats in January 2008 and aacomas sent my updated file to the schools on 3/1/08 and they received it on 3/3. i got 4 DO interviews in pretty much 10-11 days, and some got to me in less time. I guarantee you if you retake the mcat and get a 24-25 you are fine for a DO school with that gpa, just apply broadly. 24 is the cutoff, anything above you are fine. I did get an interview with lecom with my first mcat score which is a 22r. The hardest DO school to get into is DMU, and its average mcat is 27.2 according to US News. And they didnt even flat out reject me even though i applied on 3/1. If you need real advice because i have been in the same position as you and had the same exact mcat score, pm me.

BTW i didnt get into St. George when i had the 22r, but got in when i got the 26o for the fall class which is harder. For the winter class you have a shot to get into with a 22r but its a toss up, i would retake the mcat if i were you.

 

[oldpro]

The average mcat is 25.2 and gpa is 3.45 go to the aacomas website and they will tell you that it is their average. If you dont still believe the site, then go through md apps and discussion threads and see the stats of most acceptees in DO schools. If you still dont believe that then pay for usnews premium and they will tell you their averages. I challenge you to prove me wrong, and find a reputable source that states the average mcat for DO is 28.

You have not really given good sources except aacomas

USNEWS and MD applicants are not good sources, in fact MD Applicants is like using wikipedia for a source for research LOL Really there is no obligation for the truth.

I went and looked at stats from the Schools. Why don't you.

The Bar is going up you said this yourself, normally a 22 gets into a Caribbean school many times heck even a 20 or a 19 has

DO schools are not second rate in the least lets get a grip here.

28 is the average for a good chance not just a low ball chance, 26 is low ball and not much of chance if you have a low GPA.

When Giving advice I refuse to give advice to someone with a 3.4 and a 25 or 26 MCAT that they have a good chance of acceptance at DO and MD schools, IMO its bad advice and I do not want to be responsible for someone applying and spending thousands and all hopes in getting accepted to medical school that year when it does not happen, Fact is many with these stats get passed by for one reason or another and sometimes its the stats due to the applicant pool at the school that year!

If you give advice give advice that can be counted on

a 3.3 and a 28 has a better chance then a 3.4 and a 25 at a DO school in general and thats the facts my friend.

I understand too you want to believe the ones who post "I got in with a 2.8 and a 19 MCAT" Who doesn't when you are busting your butt in Premed? But anyone can be anyone and anything on the Internet do not believe everything you see posted as I do not.

 

[a817]

You have not really given good sources except aacomas

USNEWS and MD applicants are not good sources, in fact MD Applicants is like using wikipedia for a source for research LOL Really there is no obligation for the truth.

I went and looked at stats from the Schools. Why don't you.

The Bar is going up you said this yourself, normally a 22 gets into a Caribbean school many times heck even a 20 or a 19 has

DO schools are not second rate in the least lets get a grip here.

28 is the average for a good chance not just a low ball chance, 26 is low ball and not much of chance if you have a low GPA.

When Giving advice I refuse to give advice to someone with a 3.4 and a 25 or 26 MCAT that they have a good chance of acceptance at DO and MD schools, IMO its bad advice and I do not want to be responsible for someone applying and spending thousands and all hopes in getting accepted to medical school that year when it does not happen, Fact is many with these stats get passed by for one reason or another and sometimes its the stats due to the applicant pool at the school that year!

If you give advice give advice that can be counted on

a 3.3 and a 28 has a better chance then a 3.4 and a 25 at a DO school in general and thats the facts my friend.

I understand too you want to believe the ones who post "I got in with a 2.8 and a 19 MCAT" Who doesn't when you are busting your butt in Premed? But anyone can be anyone and anything on the Internet do not believe everything you see posted as I do not.

I never said that DO is second rate, i like the philosophy and if i didn't I would have gone to St. George in a heart beat. So i dont know where that came from.

My point is not that a 3.3 28 is less competitive, than a 3.4 25 which is obviously wrong. My point is that the average mcat for a student that gets into a DO school is not 28. Of course many student have got in with those stats, but the average a little bit under 26. If you have a 3.4 and a 26 and average EC's you will get multiple acceptance,unless you are a terrible interviewer.

A 3.4 26 is a lot different then the feel good 2.8 gpa 19 mcat for a DO school, so that is a pointless argument. PLUS I clearly stated that the cut of for most DO school is 24. So you 24 and above you will atleast be considered, with a gpa above 3.0. My only point is that you are giving off the wrong averages to people and make them think getting into a DO school is harder than it really is. That is my one and only point. You are stating that the 50th percentile of incoming DO students is 3.5 28. As stated before there are three school that are close to that number you provided but still a little bit under, but the average is more like in 3.4-3.5 25-26 range. Aacomas would not undershoot their averages by almost 3 points on their website. Why wouldn't they want to boast their higher mcat average. I understand DO is starting to get more competitive each year and might become closer to an average mcat of 26.
Why would us news be a decent source ? Yes they are not as good as accomas, but they are still a decent source.
Like i said i had a 3.63gpa 3.4sci 26mcat and have gotten 5 interviews, 4 of them within ten days after by jan mcat. I could not get them if the average was 28, because the truth is i was above some of their averages. I am not saying that shoot for a 26, because in reality you should shoot for as high as possible. But if you have 3.4 25 and really want to get into a DO school, you should not be discouraged since you have a good shot, and will get a few interview offers if you apply broadly. I feel that you discourage people with the stats you offer, which you cant even source. Those stats you give (3.5 28) are what you think that the average is. My point is not to start a huge argument, but it is to give the right numbers.

BTW: The reason, why i am bring this up is that i was really discouraged when you gave your version of the stats, and felt that i didnt improve on my mcat enough. I had to look up the averages to see my version of the stats, and feel like i didnt shoot my self in the foot.

 

[oldpro]

A 3.4 26 is a lot different then the feel good 2.8 gpa 19 mcat for a DO school, so that is a pointless argument. PLUS I clearly stated that the cut of for most DO school is 24. So you 24 and above you will atleast be considered, with a gpa above 3.0. My only point is that you are giving off the wrong averages to people and make them think getting into a DO school is harder than it really is. That is my one and only point.

So you have the info directly from all the DO schools that the "Cut off is 24" ?
Please show us I believe this is misleading and you will find that this is not true.

Considered or getting and interview is far from accepted, that is my point 28 is a good MCAT for a DO school and you should get accepted with a 3.3 or better how is that bad advice?

I'm giving stats from the schools and what some ADCOM members have told me.

As I posted I will not Mislead or be bullied by a premed into giving advice that is not proven to be correct. Bring out the stats I have debated and read debates before it comes down to that a 24 is not really strong enough for a DO school to consider you a good Candidate, true some may get accepted but to say this universally is wrong and unproven.

Further I'm pointing out that the bar has been raised in the last few years at the DO schools do not kid your self.

getting a

Secondary means nothing
Getting an interview is being considered possibly (Some give interviews to in state )

But these mean nothing if rejected

Getting accepted is the goal.

If I had a 24 MCAT I would restudy and retake it or apply to the Caribbean as well as DO

every year about 40% are accepted and 60% are rejected that apply to medical school in the US how do you think you fair with the 40%?


Honestly anyone with a 3.4 or a 3.3 and a 24 MCAT I would be worried about getting accepted in the US Honestly if you think this is bad advice just ignore it then and good luck.

 

[a817]

all meant for the 24 it is the cut off for the 3 touro's schools, pcom, nycom "strongly prefers" a 24 or above and they are few other schools (Lecom is 21) So yes i do have direct info that the cut off is 24 for quite a few schools, sorry for using all. In the end do your best. All i meant to say is the average mcat is not 28 for a DO school, yes i do agree 28 does put you in good shape because you are above average. If 28 is the average then aacomas is doing a great injustice on their website, and the schools i call are also lying to me when they state their averages over the phone. Don't care to argue anymore. I got into one anyway and have 3 more interviews to go, hoping for nycom.

BTW i said 26 is about the average, so a 24 is a good amount lower about 8 percentile. So someone with a 24 would need a gpa alot high then the 3.45 average. Obviously they are also other factors.

 

[oldpro]

I understand your belief I went and searched through the Pre DO threads and there is only one thread about "Chances" and MCAT scores over there.

No where Did I read 21 or 24 MCAT is good enough.

I'm in clinicals with DO students in GA they told me it's getting harder to get accepted then years before.

This is not to panic anyone just know if you are not doing well (Better then a 3.2 ) and you get a low MCAT (Below a 26 ) then your chances of getting accepted is diminished greatly.

This is not just crap talk but FACTS

But if you have 3.4 25 and really want to get into a DO school, you should not be discouraged since you have a good shot

You and I will never agree on this, since I feel the 24 makes a chance not a "Good Shot" A 28 would be a "Good Shot" in my feeling

So good luck

 

[jackets5]

the average MCAT is around a 24-26 at most DO schools the only ones ive seen around a 28 were Western university and i think Michigan State. And the average GPA was around a 3.3-3.4. To state you need at 3.5 and 28 to have a good shot at DO schools is false a 3.5 and 28 would get you multiple acceptances to DO schools more than likely. DO schools are easier to get into than MD schools not degrading DO schools but those are just the facts. Pretty much all MD matriculating students would get accepted at DO schools but a much smaller percentage of DO students would get in to MD schools

 

[oldpro]

the average MCAT is around a 24-26 at most DO schools the only ones ive seen around a 28 were Western university and i think Michigan State. And the average GPA was around a 3.3-3.4. To state you need at 3.5 and 28 to have a good shot at DO schools is false a 3.5 and 28 would get you multiple acceptances to DO schools more than likely. DO schools are easier to get into than MD schools not degrading DO schools but those are just the facts. Pretty much all MD matriculating students would get accepted at DO schools but a much smaller percentage of DO students would get in to MD schools

I never posted 3.5 and 28, I posted 3.4 and 28 is a good shot

Please if you are going to debate do not try and change what I post.

Its false to think a 24 is a good MCAT BTW do a google, a GOOD MCAT is 30.

For a Lock at DO schools you need at least 3.4 and 28 for a shot at DO schools at least a 3.3 and 26

too many with 3.2 and 3.3 and 24 MCATs have been turned down at DO schools, I have read the sad posts for years here.

 

[a817]

there is a difference between being average and being a lock. i agree that 3.4 28 is a lock.