Chances at RFU AP?

[USArmyDoc]

Okay, so heres the deal. My chance at a MD school is pretty much blown out of the water. Anyway, my stats are as follows:

GPA: 3.72 (3.78 by the time my application is in)
Science GPA: 3.52 (Going to be 3.55 when applying to AP program)
MCAT: Mid 20's (I am mortified, but I think I give away the score by saying MID 20.)

* Those grades above are taking into account a 4.0 this semester which is about a 95% chance.

I have a good bunch of EC's and I know very good LOR's. Also, a very strong passion for public health and all. I am going to meet with a "admissions counselor" sometime in the next month or so.

I am very attracted to the program for various reasons:

1. I am only 20 and I feel I owe myself the best shot to get into a MD school
2. It'll be my 4th year of college....graduated in 3 years
3. Gives me an easier first year which will open up time for research on public health; maybe intern at the local NIH, CDC, etc office
4. I look at this program as an opportunity not a "failure" because I don't have a good shot at an allopathic program


This spring semester I have loaded up for the AP program. I am trying to get a head start!

Cell Biology
Genetics
Biochemistry
Another Anatomy and Physiology Class

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I really want to go there and I have made it VERY known to Caryn Wickersheim. I am just not so sure how much it will help. I really like it!

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[tacrum43]

Okay, so heres the deal. My chance at a MD school is pretty much blown out of the water. Anyway, my stats are as follows:

GPA: 3.72 (3.78 by the time my application is in)
Science GPA: 3.52 (Going to be 3.55 when applying to AP program)
MCAT: Mid 20's (I am mortified, but I think I give away the score by saying MID 20.)

* Those grades above are taking into account a 4.0 this semester which is about a 95% chance.

I have a good bunch of EC's and I know very good LOR's. Also, a very strong passion for public health and all. I am going to meet with a "admissions counselor" sometime in the next month or so.

I am very attracted to the program for various reasons:

1. I am only 20 and I feel I owe myself the best shot to get into a MD school
2. It'll be my 4th year of college....graduated in 3 years
3. Gives me an easier first year which will open up time for research on public health; maybe intern at the local NIH, CDC, etc office
4. I look at this program as an opportunity not a "failure" because I don't have a good shot at an allopathic program


This spring semester I have loaded up for the AP program. I am trying to get a head start!

Cell Biology
Genetics
Biochemistry
Another Anatomy and Physiology Class

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I really want to go there and I have made it VERY known to Caryn Wickersheim. I am just not so sure how much it will help. I really like it!

While you could probably get into RF's AP program because of your good GPA, it would be a waste of your money.

Like you said, you are only 20. What I think you should do is to take a prep course for the MCAT, or buy your own study guides like Examkrackers. At most, this will cost $2,000, vs. $50,000+ for a year of tuition and living expenses at the AP program, which, by the way, is a Master's program, not just a "4th year of college".

I think that instead of "loading up" for next semester, you should just take what you need to graduate and fulfill any requirements you have left for medical school, and focus on studying for the MCAT (which Genetics and Biochem would help you with somewhat). And in any case, I wouldn't recommend taking 4 hard core science classes like that at the same time and expecting a 4.0. Eek. You definitely don't need the anatomy class.

You are really in pretty good shape. All you need is to increase your MCAT to a 30 (in fact a 28 would probably do it, depending in your state of residency), and then you'll be set.

It seems rash to rush off to RF's program when what you are lacking is a good MCAT score, not grades.

That being said, if you and/or your parents are rich, and you really want to end up at Chicago med, then RF's AP is a sure thing as long as you maintain at least a 3.0 there and don't make anybody angry along the way.

 

[USArmyDoc]

While you could probably get into RF's AP program because of your good GPA, it would be a waste of your money.

Like you said, you are only 20. What I think you should do is to take a prep course for the MCAT, or buy your own study guides like Examkrackers. At most, this will cost $2,000, vs. $50,000+ for a year of tuition and living expenses at the AP program, which, by the way, is a Master's program, not just a "4th year of college".

I think that instead of "loading up" for next semester, you should just take what you need to graduate and fulfill any requirements you have left for medical school, and focus on studying for the MCAT (which Genetics and Biochem would help you with somewhat). And in any case, I wouldn't recommend taking 4 hard core science classes like that at the same time and expecting a 4.0. Eek. You definitely don't need the anatomy class.

You are really in pretty good shape. All you need is to increase your MCAT to a 30 (in fact a 28 would probably do it, depending in your state of residency), and then you'll be set.

It seems rash to rush off to RF's program when what you are lacking is a good MCAT score, not grades.

That being said, if you and/or your parents are rich, and you really want to end up at Chicago med, then RF's AP is a sure thing as long as you maintain at least a 3.0 there and don't make anybody angry along the way.

Very good post. Gave me somethings to think about. However, I must be honest I don't think I have what it takes to get that great MCAT score. Also, I was accepted to an osteopathic school and while I am all good with osteopathic philosophy (in fact, I agree with it more) I think my career goals would be better suited with a MD. I understand its a masters program and not just a 4th year of college. In fact, I have stayed home from college and saved money for reasons like this. I knew I would have to spend money in graduate school. I really appreciate your advice it was DEF. got me thinking. It is either DO or RFU AP unless some MIRACLE occurs with an allopathic school. Keep it coming Tacrum, I have followed your posts and you are VERY knowledgeable.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Also, the assumption of the 4.0 is for this semester not the upcoming spring. I have an easy schedule this Fall and I am determined as hell to nail the 4.0. So your opinion is really against the AP for me? What about my MCAT? I don't think its so bad for the AP program. I know people with my MCAT that got in. I am so nervous. I really like it. I like it so much I am going to meet with an advisor and have been in constant contact with Mrs. Wickersheim whom happens to be one heck of a lady!!

 

[tacrum43]

Also, the assumption of the 4.0 is for this semester not the upcoming spring. I have an easy schedule this Fall and I am determined as hell to nail the 4.0. So your opinion is really against the AP for me? What about my MCAT? I don't think its so bad for the AP program. I know people with my MCAT that got in. I am so nervous. I really like it. I like it so much I am going to meet with an advisor and have been in constant contact with Mrs. Wickersheim whom happens to be one heck of a lady!!

Well, if you really think it's for you, who am I to say that it's not? I'm just saying that you don't fit the typical profile of their program. SMP type programs like Georgetown's and RF's are really more for people like me with a low to borderline GPA and a decent MCAT score (27+).

It seems very likely to me that you would get into the AP, because you have a lot going for you, and I'm sure an early application (I think they start accepted apps in January, but I'm not sure) will help too. Having Mrs. Wickersheim know who you are will help too I'm sure. She was very nice to me whenever I communicated with her.

Personally, I found it much harder to get a 4.0 (never made that any quarter in college) than to get a 30 on the MCAT. How did you study for the MCAT? I'm probably not the best example there because all I did was take the Kaplan course and study a little bit on my own. I actually never took a single practice MCAT before I walked in to take the test. Anyway, I think you should just focus on bringing up your MCAT score by taking a prep course and/or studying on your own from other review books (don't try to do them both at once though!).

You've only taken the MCAT once. There are quite a few people on SDN who have taken it two, three or even four or more times. Just study for it and take it again in April. It's okay if you take another year. That's essentially what you would be doing with the AP anyhow, it would just be more of a sure thing.

You seem to be worried about where you are going to be next fall, which is understandable, but don't feel that you HAVE to be in an academic program. You could work in a lab, do research or just volunteer, all interspersed with interviews of course. To get those interviews, from what you've posted, all you need is a higher MCAT. You're graduating with a very good GPA and a year early, I'm sure that if you put in the work you can get a good MCAT score.

P.S. I'm glad you find my posts knowledgeable. I try. Sometimes more than others though. I did try here.

 

[ToxicFugu]

Although I respect Tacrums advice, I have to disagree with it. I am a product of the RFU AP program, so I can speak with some experience about it. It really is a "sure thing" so long as you can get a GPA above 3.0. And your college GPA is good, so it seems you wouldn't have a problem succeeding in class. Although your history also shows that you had trouble with the MCAT, so I wouldn't recommend the re-studying for the MCAT/research route unless you know for sure that the mid-20 score was a total fluke and doesn't represent what your actual score would be. I honestly believe that short of getting an acceptance to medical school the first time around, the AP program is the best possible option for someone who is set on pursuing medicine.

Yeah, the RFU reputation is pretty sh**y. But at least you'll be an M.D, which I can say with a lot more pride than I could "D.O." I apologize to any D.Os who read this, but I really do care about that stuff. I shouldn't, but I do. Also, RFU-CMS has an excellent match year after year, in spite of the school's rep, it gets plenty of California matches and matches in top programs. (http://66.99.255.20/communications/matchday05/CMS2005.pdf)

Also, there's nothing stopping you from applying to medical school again while you're in the AP program. I know people who've done it, and gotten accepted to their state schools.

So, in sum, I'd recommend that you do talk to the RFU admissions director and show immense interest in the program. If you want to take the MCAT again (and you have nothing to lose if you do), then take easy courses for your last quarter, and really study your arse off for the MCAT.

Also, 35k tuition for the AP program is expensive, but medical school in general is expensive. Even some state schools have tuition exceeding 20k/year. You're gonna be in debt regardless, so spend that 50k and secure yourself a spot in med school.

And the M1A year (after the AP program) is as chill as its reputation. If you spend that entire year doing research and perhaps publishing a paper, you gain a hige advantage over everyone else.

g/l.

 

[tacrum43]

Although I respect Tacrums advice, I have to disagree with it. I am a product of the RFU AP program, so I can speak with some experience about it. It really is a "sure thing" so long as you can get a GPA above 3.0. And your college GPA is good, so it seems you wouldn't have a problem succeeding in class. Although your history also shows that you had trouble with the MCAT, so I wouldn't recommend the re-studying for the MCAT/research route unless you know for sure that the mid-20 score was a total fluke and doesn't represent what your actual score would be. I honestly believe that short of getting an acceptance to medical school the first time around, the AP program is the best possible option for someone who is set on pursuing medicine.

Yeah, the RFU reputation is pretty sh**y. But at least you'll be an M.D, which I can say with a lot more pride than I could "D.O." I apologize to any D.Os who read this, but I really do care about that stuff. I shouldn't, but I do. Also, RFU-CMS has an excellent match year after year, in spite of the school's rep, it gets plenty of California matches and matches in top programs. (http://66.99.255.20/communications/matchday05/CMS2005.pdf)

Also, there's nothing stopping you from applying to medical school again while you're in the AP program. I know people who've done it, and gotten accepted to their state schools.

So, in sum, I'd recommend that you do talk to the RFU admissions director and show immense interest in the program. If you want to take the MCAT again (and you have nothing to lose if you do), then take easy courses for your last quarter, and really study your arse off for the MCAT.

Also, 35k tuition for the AP program is expensive, but medical school in general is expensive. Even some state schools have tuition exceeding 20k/year. You're gonna be in debt regardless, so spend that 50k and secure yourself a spot in med school.

And the M1A year (after the AP program) is as chill as its reputation. If you spend that entire year doing research and perhaps publishing a paper, you gain a hige advantage over everyone else.

g/l.

I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong with the program, it's very good in that if you pass you are virtually guaranteed a spot (I heard that students used to be guaranteed a spot, but then some real a-holes got in, so they revised that), but it just seems like a lot of money to spend when a higher MCAT score would fix the problem much cheaper and offer a wider variety of schools.

To the OP: Basically, to me, it just seems kind of rash to jump into this while having only taken the MCAT once, and with that being your only major negative factor. What you could do is apply to the AP now (or whenever their app is available), and then plan on taking the MCAT again in April after extensive studying. I mean, even if you decide to go the AP afterall, having a higher MCAT certainly won't hurt (as the above poster mentioned), and may help you get into the AP, although I really think you'll get in as is. Of course, there's always the chance you'll get into an M.D. school this year and you won't have to worry about it!

Oh, and if you are looking for other options, I would have to recommend Georgetown's SMP (where I am now). Yes, they say the minimum MCAT is a 27, but there are people here with less than that. Your GPA would help compensate, so look into if you want. The best part about Georgetown is that many schools respect their program highly, but the bad part is that you aren't guaranteed a spot. You do get an interview though if you get about 3.4-3.5+ though. BUT, again I think this would be a waste of money too, because these programs are really set up for people with low GPA and higher MCAT. You've got the grades, all you need now is the MCAT score.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I have shown IMMENSE interests in the AP program to Caryn Wickersheim. I think I am going on close to 5 or 6 months of correspondence with her. Once again, what an awesome lady. I went to college on scholarships and not spending much money. I did not realize the reputation of RFU was bad. Oh well, I could give a rats ass. Also, in regards to the DO comment, I wouldn't jump to a conculsion that they get no respect. I am a son of an osteopathic physician and he gets TONS of respect. The hospital he is an attending at all the MD's praise him and tell me I have big shoes to fill. The degree behind your name is not what gives you respect, sorry! It is your performance. With that being said, I think maybe I should lay out to you guys why I feel a MD would be better for me and what my future goals are. It will probably help with the decision making process.

Goal: To become involved in public health in the federal government. I want to eventually do health care policy. I feel I am someone with motivation and sincerity that our health care system needs. I have an extensive background in public health (my major) and have implemented my own programs. In addition, I have done research with my state senator who resides on the health committee. I loved every second of it. From planning the programs to "selling" and implementing it. Public Health is a passion I have Tacrum.

Plan: For the reasons stated above, I think it would be better to have a MD and all the docs I talk to agree, including my father. He is a proud osteopathic physician but realizes that there is some stigma, although he never experienced it. After earning my medical degree, I want to enroll in both a MPH and MBA programs, obviously not concurrently. After all, I am going to need to know how to finance programs, etc. The MPH will only increase my knowledge on public health. People reading this might think I am crazy for wanting to do all this but once again, I feel this is what I was meant to do. I dislike the fact that there have socioeconomic, racial, and even social factors affecting the health care delivered to someone.

*I have applied to Howard, Meharry, as well as Morehouse and feel that I am someone that would fit their profile so you never know I may end up there. I am caucasion though. Anyway, the Applied Physiology program is a avenue that I see as a sure thing as long as I keep my GPA up. I am a hard worker and will not let an opportunity like that get away from me. I was told that it was for students lacking in one area of their application. For me, it is my MCAT which I have taken twice Tacrum but with only a 1 point raise the second time. I used EK books and did EVERY question in the 1001 series books for all four subjects. Trust me, I am not stupid just not a good test taker. Maybe that will give you something else to chew on regarding my future choices. Thanks buddy

 

[USArmyDoc]

Tacrum, I know it may seem rash but for me its either AP or DO. Which arn't such bad choices!!!

 

[USArmyDoc]

The part is what I like. I am not a good test taker so with my time off I can do some research, intern at a public health agency and study ahead for step 1. I know I am being a gunner and most likely won't be able to study as much as I think but I like the fact that it gives me the option thats all!!

 

[tacrum43]

the Applied Physiology program is a avenue that I see as a sure thing as long as I keep my GPA up. I am a hard worker and will not let an opportunity like that get away from me. I was told that it was for students lacking in one area of their application. For me, it is my MCAT which I have taken twice Tacrum but with only a 1 point raise the second time. I used EK books and did EVERY question in the 1001 series books for all four subjects. Trust me, I am not stupid just not a good test taker. Maybe that will give you something else to chew on regarding my future choices. Thanks buddy

Okay. It's your choice, so I wish you the best of luck with the AP!

I didn't know you had already taken the MCAT twice. Twice still isn't that much though. I don't know what it is about that test, a lot of smart people who really know their stuff take it and don't do very well.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Okay. It's your choice, so I wish you the best of luck with the AP!

I didn't know you had already taken the MCAT twice. Twice still isn't that much though. I don't know what it is about that test, a lot of smart people who really know their stuff take it and don't do very well.

Yea, I took it twice. I think my best bet for a sure thing is the AP program. I just hope I get in!! I am afraid they will look at my MCAT and reject me but I know people who got in with the same MCAT or lower. I am just praying I get in!! I already started filling out the application that was available to the Class of 2005. I figured that if it is the samething I can just fill in the 2006 information and it will be in the mail within the next day. I bet I have the first application in!!

 

[tacrum43]

Yea, I took it twice. I think my best bet for a sure thing is the AP program. I just hope I get in!! I am afraid they will look at my MCAT and reject me but I know people who got in with the same MCAT or lower. I am just praying I get in!! I already started filling out the application that was available to the Class of 2005. I figured that if it is the samething I can just fill in the 2006 information and it will be in the mail within the next day. I bet I have the first application in!!

You'll get in.

 

[USArmyDoc]

You'll get in.

Thank you Tacrum. You have been great help to me and I appreciate it. I must say the other day really hurt me when scores were released. However, I have new hope now!!

 

[NRAI2001]

You'll get in.

Do you know what the avg stats are for the AP program? Avg mcat? avg gpa?

 

[jintonic5]

to the OP,

why don't you just get an MPH first, and then go to medical school? with a graduate degree under your belt, you'd be a better candidate for allo schools. that's assuming that you would do well in the MPH program, but it's not so impossible to believe that you would

it doesn't make sense to me that you would do an extra year of medical school so that you would have time to do research or public health work.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I am looking for a sure thing and the RFU AP program seems to be my only option. I am not crazy about spending another 50 G's but it is for my future career so I'll do what is necessary.