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Chinese mass slaughter of dogs

Discussion in 'Pre-Veterinary' started by youthman, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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  3. zufuss

    zufuss Member
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    i wouldn't really expect anything to improve in the near future.

    or the not so near future either.
     
  4. SuperTrooper

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  5. Mojobaggins

    Mojobaggins Junior Member

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    3 Deaths by Rabies means 50,000 dogs need to be bludgeon'd to death? Digusting and sad.
     
  6. RyanRyan

    RyanRyan Member
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    lghh.. thats depressing :(
     
  7. lillytwig

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    or population control... :D
     
  8. 2Bsure

    2Bsure Member
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    Genocide is population control too.
     
  9. lillytwig

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    yes it is, and would seem to be an effective measure. the problem is deciding on a race/ethnic group, wouldn't you agree? :)
     
  10. SilviaGTO

    SilviaGTO Junior Member
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    I heard about this from clients at work, and it remained hard for me to keep professional about my opinion on this.

    Im sorry, someone tries to beat my dog to death in front me, theyre going to find they have a little bit of a problem. I dont care if it means my own death.


    (goes back to lurking)
     
  11. lillytwig

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    and then what? does your dog take care of its self? your sacrificing your own life for your dog's sounds noble, but really doesn't make sense, does it?? maybe i just can't connect..... :confused:
     
  12. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy
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    So is the large smiley face appropriate here? Do you generally like to laugh at the misfortune of others?
     
  13. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy
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    Yeah, especially when there are more effective and more humane ways to deal with the situation.
     
  14. SilviaGTO

    SilviaGTO Junior Member
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    I figured my dog would extract revenge for my lost life by making an incredible journey to find the people responsible for the call to beat the dogs, thus along the way making incredible lifelong friends that consist of a food hungry black labrador with a voice similar to Michael J. Fox's and a sassy, dog hating, but lovable himalayan cat. :D
     
  15. BeatrixKiddo

    BeatrixKiddo Guest

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    Hm, Animal cruelty of course is wrong, but when they are a threat to humans isn't this justified? As for humane ways, I think we should do whatever's convenient, as long as we aren't purposely inflicting more pain then is nessesary.


    Which more humane ways were you refering to? Brining the dog into a certified shelter and having a professional doctor inject it with poison? That sounds more dangerous then just letting the dog go free.
    Kay, just my thoughts!
     
  16. SilviaGTO

    SilviaGTO Junior Member
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    well beating a dog to death, I would consider purposely inflicting more pain than what is necessary.

    So yeah if you cant round up ten thousand dogs to euthanize properly (they probably dont have the resources for if they cant even vaccinate properly), I would think a gun shot to the head would be a little quicker than beating.


    But on second thought shooting the dog would cause blood to be spilt which wouldnt be wise if youre trying to contain rabies.. but then you cant tell me none of the dogs that were beaten to death didnt bleed either.
     
  17. dvm'08

    dvm'08 Member
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    there is something wrong with you.
     
  18. BeatrixKiddo

    BeatrixKiddo Guest

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    True! Maybe the point was to contain blood by causing internal bleeding?
     
  19. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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    I come from a communist country. The point was simple. They did it like that, because THEY CAN. Even putting all the animal cruelty aside, this is what an oppressive government does to it's people. It does not give them the choice.
     
  20. lillytwig

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    of course you did, and why wouldn't that happen?? i did make laugh, though!
     
  21. lillytwig

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    how about gassing them? that could work...i think trying to use terms like execution and humane in the same sentence is hard to do. i agree with beatrice. humans are superior and should be treated as such. in other words, if it came down to your life or your dog's, which is more important, keeping in mind that animals are very dependent on humans. :D :D smiles are appropriate for smiley people!! :D :D lighten up a little bit!
     
  22. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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    Humans are superior and should be treated as such by whom? I don't see the correlation.

    Animals are very dependant on humans? Well, yeah, only if we breed them to be . . .

    The fact that you're saying "lighten up a little" in this thread is pretty arrogant. Is that what you mean by being treated as superior? If we can all show disconnection with this occurence, it is a sign of our superiority, right? Yeah, I think I got it now.
     
  23. mshheaddoc

    mshheaddoc Howdy
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    This article made me physically sick. I would hope that there would be more ethical ways of dealing with situations (as well as more educated officials to do with this issue)
     
  24. mxm251

    mxm251 New Member

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  25. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy
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    Again, why the big smilies? They're just plain offensive and misplaced in this thread. Whether or not humans or dogs have priority is not the issue here. In the US, we euthanize known carriers of rabies. However, killing all dogs (and brutally at that) was unnecessary. What it shows is an inefficient local government dealing with a health care crisis in a likely unproductive way that is also unbelievably cruel.

    So, no, I don't "lighten up" when discussing torturing and killing dogs. I don't think it's a character flaw. :rolleyes:
     
  26. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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    What does this have to do with communism? In early 20th century, when white people were robbed, 19 "Chinaman" from Chinatown were hanged and shot in one day in LA, the rest beaten.

    **This is not early 20th C, and if you're saying China's gov't is that far behind - then you've actually made my point.

    I don't agree with your point that dogs are "equal" with humans. If we can't kill dogs, then who says we can kill mosquitos and flies, aren't they lives too? What about bacteria?

    **Where did I ever say dogs are equal with humans? Anyone that has worked in veterinary medicine in any capacity knows that euthanizing animals is a regular part of the job. Don't confuse me with animal rights activists.

    On the other hand I also think such individual incidents, carried out in small towns, are unnecessary and cruel. I'm from China. My point in mentioning the one dark page of US history is not to piss anyone off (sorry if I did), but just to point out that all nations go through such a process. With more educated people things will change. It has little to do with the political system, but more about awareness. I do not object Westerners exerting pressures on China and other Asian nations. The point is you need to understand the cultures first, and the attitude needs to be rationally helpful, and not simply emotionally critical.

    **Well, since I'm part Chinese and part Vietnamese, I think I understand the culture quite well. Several years ago I went back to Vietnam to help my friend film a documentary on dogs being used for food. Have you ever been in a kennel full of dogs waiting to be killed for food? Interestingly enough, the people of the town wanted nothing to do with this family, and avoided walking by his property whenever possible.


    Asian countries traditionally do not care about "dog rights", that's why we have "democratic" Korea cooking dogs as delicacies. I think a lot of anger and disgust I see in this post actually stems from "culture shock". Matter of fact, many Asians are equally angry at Westerners for treating dogs so nice: the total retail sales of dog food in US is more than the national GDP of many Asian countries such as Mongolia, Cambodia and Laos. In other words, millions of Asians live lives worse than American dogs. Not to criticize, just to point out a strange fact.

    **I will tell you something strange about this family in Vietnam that sold dogs as food for a living. They also kept several dogs as pets. They loved these dogs like family. The human-dog relationship was no different than what we see here. Some more interesting info for you. The first domesticated dog is believed to have come from China. Dogs were kept as house pets and signs of good luck by royalty and later the bourgeois. Ever heard of the Pekingese? The Shih Tzu? It wasn't until 1949 that dog ownership was condemned by the communist government as a "luxury." At that point they were hunted and killed. So you were asking what this has to do with communism?
     
  27. mxm251

    mxm251 New Member

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  28. HorseyVet

    HorseyVet Senior Member
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    The New Guinea tribe (the Fore people) is where Kuru (aka CDJ, aka mad-cow/BSE in bovine) was first noted. They did not practice canabalism as a method of subsistence but rather as a ritual and homage to the dead. They specifically ate the brains of the dead...which is where we originally thought the transmission was made, but now it's thought that the preparation was more to blame...that is women and small children making extensive, blood-blood contact while preparing the body. The line of transmission was almost exclusively through the maternal line eventhough both males and females consumed the bodies-only the women (and children) prepared the food.

    back to BSE again....the reason why whole herds were (and are) killed is because of how BSE gets transmitted to the herd...namely through offal in the feed. So basically if one cow is infected, it's likely the other have been exposed depending on how long they've been at a given location. Also, like rabies, there is no "live test" for BSE. You need to do pathology on the brain. In cows, they generally pass into the food supply before they would typically develop any symptoms...which is why if you think you have a BSE carrying herd you need to remove them before they become food. Many of the cases of so-called downer-cows are rather old animals which just pop-up because someone's management program hadn't had them kulled aready or are a part of a more back-yard farm situation. Once we find those cows there is a huge effort to find out where the animal originated from and where the source of exposure was (see also national ID program).

    Anyway...kulling for BSE is different IMO then rabies. A dog has 10 days or so before it will die of rabies once exposed...they will have huge symptoms anywhere from days 1-10...but last I checked, they are pretty off by day 5 at the latest. If you saw a crazy looking dog...report it....do the same with any noctural animal you see acting "strange" during the day (like staggering or being way too "friendly") Often it's children who approach these animals, simply because they become approachable at that point.

    I wouldn't advise anyone to try to link communism to a decreased respect or treatment of animals. Communism is very different everywhere and depends a LOT more on the history of how the government made the transition then anything else. Communists have also been amoung the first to advocate vegatarianism under the idea that one's society should be judged on how it treats its weakest members...most people don't NEED to eat animals, so if you don't need to take a life, it says something about yourself if you do. I'm not trying to start a conversation about vegatarianism...I just wanted to point out that not all ideas or systems of communism are representative of this rabies situation...I think it has more to do with a public fear (real or imagined) and an attempt to remedy it. To blame what happened entirely on ethnicity or government is a little off-centered.

    We all had to get our rabies shots. An they were VERY expensive here. I'm not sure how available they are in China and/or how much or obtainable treatment for exposure would be. I can see that people would be very scared of anything that they know could kill them that can't be cured without fairly expensive treatment.
     
  29. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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    I think we are taking this way too off topic, so I will keep this short. Whether it were mad cow or rabies in the US, there are strict rules on how animals can be slaughtered, and a gang beating in the middle of the street would not meet those rules.

    The English language also uses different forms of the word "dog" in a derogatory sense. Same with poultry and swine. I don't think it's a good enough excuse to slaughter dogs that way.
     
  30. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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    HorseyVet, communism in theory and communism in reality are 2 completely different things. I'm sorry but in reality communism is a system of oppression. The rich get rich while the poor starve to death. If they wanted to make their people happy they wouldn't be driving around in their Mercedes and investing millions of dollars of their personal funds in capitalist countries. I'll say it again. This is related to communism because the gov't can do what it wants without fear of the people.
     
  31. HorseyVet

    HorseyVet Senior Member
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    From my understanding of the situation I agree....I wasn't trying to support or condemn the situation itself....just to hopefully add a little more information which might make it more palatable (and less replusive).

    Anytime you have a need for any kind of slaughter it can usually be done humanely. However, you need to have people that are competent enough to perform the action. This is a large reason why I'm for the slaughter of horses in the US. If it's done here, we have decently strict guidlines about how everything needs to happen (usually because/from a meat inspection stand point but still it causes people to make sure that there operation is tip-top). I've asked myself and others "what kind of person can sit there and put bolts through horses heads all day".....removing moral considerations, likely if a person had a chance at a better job they would do it. So who does that leave you other then no-so educated, even if well intended, individuals....that can very severely compromise the quality of the slaughter.

    I'm sure (or hoping) that the chinese government didn't say "kill these dogs in the most brutal way." Did they maybe say "we need a solution fast.....who wants to be at ground zero on this?"...probably....

    Again...not trying to tick people off...I probably could write for a long time and make myself more clear, but hopefully the short version will be ok.
     
  32. HorseyVet

    HorseyVet Senior Member
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    As I mentioned the state of "communism" in the countries who call their government as such is largely dependent on historically how the country came to that state/form of government. Communism in Russia was totally different then Cuba, China, etc. TOTALLY different. Just as in American we call ourselves a democracy eventhough in reality American is no longer the sort of "true" democracy it claims.

    I rarely go into this topic anymore b/c there are so many misconceptions about communism. I least wanted to say that just b/c a country calls itself communist (or any form of government) doesn't mean it is or that it even bares any relation to the ideas of the founders of the epistomology. I guess this is sort of OT. If you want to talk about it more, maybe we should go to PM.
     
  33. lillytwig

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    umm....humans should be treated as superior to all other creatures by every other human. a puppy shouldn't be treated better than a human. a horse shouldn't be more important than a human. being sick about "dogslaughter", yet paying little attention to human problems seems to be the disconnection.
    you are right. we breed animals to be dependent on humans. that is why the $6000 mini-yorkshire is so cute. if it were a wild mountain cat, you wouldn't be so quick to cuddle up, right?? well, yeah, smart ass, we breed animals to be dependent so we can feel a sense of parentship or importance.
    i appologize for not moping around all day, and being sick to my stomach about dogs being beaten...wait, no i don't, because then i would be living in an unrealistic world. animals are inferior to humans!! whine about iraqi people being tortured. whine about starvation in africa, and lack of education in 3rd world countries. but whining about a bunch of dogs getting beat up???? the dogs don't care about you, why do you care about them? maybe we should all eat some dog together. maybe it would remove the diefied image of a dog from your head.
    you get this worked up over a dog???
     
  34. youthman

    youthman Senior Member
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    Lookie what I found:

    I guess you think it's a waste to care about animals OR people. So why even come in here but to troll? Get in there make your money and get out huh? Hey, I love to make money too. I know what it's like to be motivated by the almight dollar. But that never stopped me from caring about people or animals. You have issues dude, chick, bitch, or whatever the hell you are. Seems even the "non animal" people agree. BUH BYE.
     
  35. lillytwig

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    take the whole conversation in context, it makes a little more sense you little research champ!! i care about people and their health--not people and their little day-to-day problems. the whole conversation that you think you have burned me with is all about that. these 2 girl dentists want to give their patients rubdowns, and talk about how their day is going. my response is that i really don't care about trivial problems that EVERYONE has everyday, otherwise i would be a psycologist or something. yes i have issues. people turning a practice into an emotional therapy institute, where you can get your teeth fixed as well bugs the hell out of me, but whatever! i am driven by the idea of restoring a human being to health, and being well compensated for my ability to do so. so in a sense, i care about people. in another sense, i don't. twist that up however you would like, and try and throw it back in my face. all i am promoting here is streamlined process, and efficiency. if money was ALL i was looking for, believe me, i wouldn't be looking at medicine.
     
  36. dvm'08

    dvm'08 Member
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    honestly, nobody cares.
     
  37. lillytwig

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    you're right, im not a little doggy being beaten to death in a third world, communist country, so why would anyone care?? nothing is more important than that!
    Now, i am very curious: how do you people feel about animal testing, lab rats, and all of that??
     
  38. SMW83

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    Animals are not ours to eat, not ours for entertainment, and not ours to test on.

    I have to stand with PETA on this issue. it's downright cruelty to animals.

    But thats just my opinion.

    As far as the beating of dogs like that, I'd say a good maglite flashlight thru the skull of the ******* beating the dog would be of good order.(I know, it's violent, but still.....)...Whose with me?!?!
     
  39. kate_g

    kate_g Senior Member
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    Er... Then what about that video you posted a link to in another thread? Almost all of those shots involved cats falling long distances and/or crashing into things. So they got hurt *and* you're entertained by it. Shame on you!



    (If there's one thing I can't stand, it's hypocrites...)
     
  40. UKYWildcat

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    Then why post the stupid link to the kitten video? If you agree with PeTA and their adgenda then you should be appalled at that video.
     
  41. SMW83

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    I am talking about animals used in the entertainment industry (i.e. circuses)

    antics that cats do on their own at home are different.
     
  42. chris03333

    chris03333 Veterinarian
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    I suggest you read the mission statement of PeTA before you state on a public Vet forum about agreeing with them.
     
  43. SMW83

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    and you dont think its not funny when a couple cats are at play?
     
  44. SMW83

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    says nothing about the antics of animals at play with each other.
     
  45. chris03333

    chris03333 Veterinarian
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    Try this part:

    PETA believes that animals have rights and deserve to have their best interests taken into consideration, regardless of whether they are useful to humans. Like you, they are capable of suffering and have an interest in leading their own lives; therefore, they are not ours to use—for food, clothing, entertainment, experimentation, or any other reason.



    The "or any other reason" is what I am talking about. PETA is an extreme animal rights organization. Their ultimate goal is to have animals live seperately from humans like if they were in the wild.) This I do not agree with, especialy since I have spent so much time dedicated to the veterinary medical field. I believe that anyone who wants to be a vet, or work with animals, who also says they have the same beliefs as PETA is a hippocrate.

    I do think the cats playing video is cute, what sickens me is it was posted by someone who said they believe in animal rights :mad:
     
  46. dvm'08

    dvm'08 Member
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    PETA is a bunch of terrorists.... i'm not joking.
     
  47. HorseyVet

    HorseyVet Senior Member
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    To clarify further....PETA, and other animal rights organizations, are against animals as pets. They are also against a number of measures that humans take to re-establish wild populations (breeding programs, re-location, etc) b/c they almost always involve some amount of captivity (namely in zoos and similar places).

    NONE of the money that gets donated to PETA goes to help animal health on any real level. That means not a cent goes to spay/neuter etc. If you audit them, the vast majority of their money goes to line their own pockets. It really is a scam. They mislead and take money from fools that think their money is going to help shelter animals etc. There is only so much of that kind of money to go around for animals and PETA essentially steals it from organizations that would actually do some good.

    FYI...If you're familiar with the IAMS scandal....the person who was in charge of over-seeing animal welfare at that off-site, contract facility (= not really directly under Iams to begin with) was an "under-cover" PETA member who instead of reporting problems, facilatated them to make a good scandal. The reason why Iams didn't know that there were problems in this contract-lab was b/c the PETA overative did not tell them. Way to go nut-jobs.
     
  48. kate_g

    kate_g Senior Member
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    Oh, and there was the thing last year where a couple of PETA head honchos were arrested for animal cruelty because they were picking up dogs from shelters and supposedly bringing them to rural places to find "good homes" - of course rural shelters are overcrowded too, but to make the program look successful they actually just killed the dogs and basically threw the bodies in a dumpster. They're interested in political influence, not animal welfare.
     
  49. medtechv79

    medtechv79 Senior Member
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    are u serious about this PETA stuff!
    Aww....man I actually donated like 15 bucks to them!! I wouldn't know their website and all that stuff looks so genuine. Where did u get this info.? I do agree the are a little too extreme for me but I'm all for people who care for the well being of animals....but if they are pocketing money...grrr....

    I'm a lover not a fighter!
     
  50. medtechv79

    medtechv79 Senior Member
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    Yeah chinese people can be so cruel....unfortunately. When I visisted China2 years ago, in one of the zoo's one of the main attractions was a live ox feeding for a tiger....people were videotaping it! I watched 3 mins and couldn't watch anymore.....granted the tiger was more like playing with the Ox....but still.....

    There are a TON of stray dogs in China.....they carry so many diseases....I just wish Chinese ppl would euthanize them humanely...*sigh*
     
  51. medtechv79

    medtechv79 Senior Member
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    eeh....that ain't even funny.:mad:
     

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