Clinical Rotations by School

[deleted564680]

Hello all, after going through DO school and being a resident for a bit, I have noticed that the single most determining factor to DO perception and success in residency stems from the 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations. In all honesty, this is the major difference between DO and MD training. There’s a lot of talk about what schools have this and that rotations but information is difficult to find for prospective DOs. Clinical rotations are something that too few pre-meds think about.

I thought it would be useful for us to make a list of our schools and what they offer prospective DO students for 3rd and 4th year. I figured I could post this here for 1st and 2nd year students and it could be moved to pre-osteo at some point as well. It would be nice to keep the same/similar format for easy comparison when applicable. I can start it off with my own school of which the site selection guide is found available on the Internet:

ATSU-KCOM

Length at each site: 2 years – complete 3rd and 4th year

How is site determined?: match “lottery” similar to the residency match but is not based on merit. Each site has a number of spots (ex. Christian St. Louis has ~15, Kirksville ~12, etc.)

Do students have to set up their own rotations?: No, unless they want to go outside their designated site

Freedom to do rotations outside of designated site?: Yes, with exemption for required rotations and no restrictions for 3 months of electives/auditions

States/Sites: Arizona (1 – multiple hospitals), Illinois (4), Michigan (7), Missouri (14), New Jersey (1), Ohio (6), Pennsylvania (1), Utah (3)

Home Hospital: Yes – attached to medical school; Northeast Regional Medical Center - Kirksville

Residencies offered: Anes, Derm, FM, Gen. Surg, FM/NMM, IM, IM/NMM, ENT


True Academic University Sites (Residencies): None


Community Sites (Residencies):

Arizona:

- Phoenix: Banner Samaritan (FM, IM, OB-GYN, Ortho, Psych, Gen. Surg, IM/Peds)

- Phoenix: Maricopa Medical Center (EM, IM, OB-GYN, Psych, Rads, Gen. Surg)

- Phoenix: Phoenix Baptist (FM)

- Phoenix: St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center (FM, IM, NSG, Neurology, Rads, Gen. Surg)


Illinois:

- Bloomington/Normal: Advocate Bromenn (FM, Neurology, NSG)

- Springfield: SIU - Carbondale (FM)

- Peoria: Univ of IL - UnityPoint Methodist (FM, Psych)


Michigan

- Commerce: DMC Huron Valley (Rads, ENT, IM, FM, Uro)

- Detroit: DMC Sinai-Grace (Anes, Rads, Gen. Surg, Vasc. Surg, ENT, Ortho, IM, Uro)

- Grand Blanc: Genesys Medical Center (IM, FM, EM, OB-GYN, Ortho, Rads)

- Grand Rapids: MetroHealth (IM, FM, EM, OB-GYN, ENT, Ortho, Uro)

- Trenton: Oakwood Southshore (IM, FM, EM, Derm, Gen. Surg, OB-GYN, Rads, Ophtho)

- Warren: St. John’s Macomb (IM, EM, Gen. Surg, OB-Gyn)

- Madison Heights: St. John’s Oakland (EM, FM, Gen. Surg, IM, Neurology, Ophtho, Ortho, ENT, Uro)


Missouri

- Jefferson City: Capital Medical Center (FM)

- Joplin: Freeman (EM, ENT, IM)

- Springfield: Cox Health Mercy (FM)

- St. Louis: Christian Northeast (FM, IM, Psych)

- St. Louis: Des Peres (Anes, FM, IM, Gen. Surg, Ortho, ENT)


New Jersey

- Bayonne: Bayonne Medical Center (FM)


Ohio

- Massilon: Affinity Medical Center (FM, EM, Gen Surg, Ortho)

- Columbus: Doctor’s Hospital (Anes, EM, FM, Gen Surg, IM-EM, NSG, OB/Gyn, Ophtho, Ortho, ENT, Peds, Rads)

- Athens: O’Bleness Hospital (FM, Derm, OB/Gyn, Ortho, OMM/NMM)

- Warren: St. Joseph Warren Hospital (EM, FM, IM, Ortho)

- Cuyahoga Falls: Western Reserve Hospital (EM, FM, Gen. Surg, IM, Ortho, Derm)


Pennsylvania

- Lititz: Heart of Lancaster (Anes, FM, IM)



Community Sites (Preceptor-Based):


Illinois

- Carbondale: SIU-Carbondale


Missouri

- Cape Girardeau: SouthEAST Health and St. Francis

- Farmington: Parkland Health and Mineral Area

- Kennett: Twin Rivers

- Rolla: Phelps

- St. Joseph: Mosaic Life

- West Plains: Ozarks


Utah (Some loose affiliation with Univ. of Utah)

- Logan

- Provo

- Salt Lake City



Notables:

- Greater than 80% (don’t have accurate numbers and could be higher) of class will be located in community programs with residencies, established lectures, teaching, etc.

- Diversity of locations can be a plus or minus but can stay at home institution

- Most of the preceptor-based spots go unfilled

- > 97% of students usually get one of their top 3 choices

- Residencies above are mixture of AOA and ACGME but with merger I didn’t split them

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ortnakas]

LECOM-Erie/Seton Hill
THIS HAS BEEN EDITED SINCE THE ORIGINAL POST

Length at each site: all of 3rd year, 4th year depends on site

How is site determined?: match “lottery” organized by class government. One site reserved for GPA >3.0. GPA <2.5 are "alpha" and generally go to Elmira or Erie, although as of Class of 2019 there are additional sites with "alpha" spots. I've heard rumors that the alpha cutoff is going up to 2.8, but as of now this is not confirmed.

Do students have to set up their own rotations?: For electives, selectives and family medicine but not other cores.

Freedom to do rotations outside of designated site?: Yes for electives and family medicine. I'm not sure about selectives. Not for cores unless you're military (HPSP).

States/Sites:

Home Hospital: Millcreek Hospital/LECOM Health in Erie, PA

Residencies offered Many sites have some AOA and/or ACGME residencies associated with them-- number of residencies and which specialties is highly variable.

True Academic University Sites (Residencies): I guess-- Millcreek Hospital/LECOM Health in Erie, PA

Community Sites (Residencies): (a lot of these have residencies but I don't have details offhand)

Pennsylvania:
Allegheny Health Network - Pittsburgh
Aria Health - Philadelphia
Butler Health System - Butler
Clarion Hospital - Clarion
Conemaugh Memorial -Johnstown
Guthrie/Robert Packer - Sayer
Indiana Regional MC- Indiana
Meadville MC - MEadville
Memorial Hospital - York
Millcreek Community - Erie
Penn Highlands - Dubois
Pinnacle Health- Harrisburg
Saint Vincent HC - Erie
Uniontown Hospital - Uniontown
UPMC Horizon - Farrell
Washington HS - Washington

Ohio:
Adena Health System - Chillicothe
East Liverpool - East Liverpool
St. Elizabeth - Youngstown
UHS Cleveland East - Cleveland
UHS Cleveland West - Cleveland

New York:
Arnot Ogden- Elmira
Niagara Falls MMC-- Niagara Falls
Our Lady of Lourdes- Binghampton
Samaritan MC - Watertown
Sisters of Charity - Buffalo
St. John's Episcopal - Far Rockaway
St. John's Riverside - Yonkers
United Memorial MC- Batavia
WCA Hospital - Jamestown

California:
San Diego Regional - San Diego

Michigan:
Beaumont- Trenton

3rd year rotations: 3 internal medicine, 2 surgery, 1 family medicine, 1 geriatrics, 1 psych, 1 peds, 1 OB/GYN, 2 electives, 1 vacation
4th year rotation: 1 "clinical development", 3 electives, 1 surgery selective, 1 medical selective, 1 primary care selective, 2 emergency medicine, 2 ambulatory medicine, 1 rural/underserved, 1 vacation

Notables:
--most sites have a mix of hospital-based and outpatient rotations
--Many, but not all of these sites, are associated with residency programs. I'm not going into details by site because I don't know all of the details and don't want to spread misinformation.
--you rank your top six programs and top four schedules (out of 13 options) and student government attempts to balance student happiness with meeting clin ed's requirements. Some years this goes better than other years.
--if your site doesn't have a certain rotation (e.g. several locations don't have psych) you usually go to Millcreek for that month. Housing is provided.
--our schedules have been organized to have (pro) multiple elective months in the fall of 4th year for audition rotations and (con) a mandatory month in Erie for a geriatrics rotation 3rd year
--You can make limited changes to your schedule in fourth year to allow for extra auditions.

Edited: added some additional information 6/13/2017

 

[hallowmann]

I'd like to pre-empt this by saying that a lot has changed in just the last couple years with regards to the clinical curriculum, so anything we say may not be the same in 3 or 4 years. This is strictly how it is now. I will say that the majority of the changes have been positive with only 1 or 2 negative changes that are more nuances than anything else.

LECOM-Erie/Seton Hill
(maybe @hallowmann can help me fill in details)

You did a great job, so I'll just address a few thing.

...Freedom to do rotations outside of designated site?: Yes for electives and family medicine. I'm not sure about selectives. Not for cores unless you're military (HPSP)...

The one "core selective" rotation in 3rd year may be done anywhere. All 4th year selectives (Medical, Surgical, and Primary Care) must be done at a LECOM affiliate.

States/Sites:

Home Hospital: I guess-- Millcreek Hospital/LECOM Health in Erie, PA

The only full hospital owned by LECOM is MCH, but there are other sites like the new geriatric facility in Erie.

Residencies offered: ??? (they exist, I just don't know details)

LECOMT is a good sized OPTI. You can search a few different places to find all the residencies, but they are almost exclusively in PA, OH, NY, & FL.

http://cf.osteopathic.org/optihub/result.cfm?AOAID=123397 - This lists 83, I counted 85. This doesn't include fellowships or internships. There are basically residencies and fellowships in everything (except Path & Rad Onc - No AOA residencies in those).

...
True Academic University Sites (Residencies): I guess-- Millcreek Hospital/LECOM Health in Erie, PA...

I guess you'd call Millcreek our "university" site, but it really isn't. It's essentially a community hospital owned by LECOM.

...Community Sites (Residencies): (a lot of these have residencies but I don't have details offhand)

Pennsylvania:
Allegheny Health Network - Pittsburgh
Aria Health - Philadelphia
Butler Health System - Butler
Clarion Hospital - Clarion
Conemaugh Memorial -Johnstown
Guthrie/Robert Packer - Sayer
Indiana Regional MC- Indiana
Meadville MC - MEadville
Memorial Hospital - York
Millcreek Community - Erie
Penn Highlands - Dubois
Pinnacle Health- Harrisburg
Saint Vincent HC - Erie
Uniontown Hospital - Uniontown
UPMC Horizon - Farrell
Washington HS - Washington

Ohio:
Adena Health System - Chillicothe
East Liverpool - East Liverpool
St. Elizabeth - Youngstown
UHS Cleveland East - Cleveland
UHS Cleveland West - Cleveland

New York:
Arnot Ogden- Elmira
Niagara Falls MMC-- Niagara Falls
Our Lady of Lourdes- Binghampton
Samaritan MC - Watertown
Sisters of Charity - Buffalo
St. John's Episcopal - Far Rockaway
St. John's Riverside - Yonkers
United Memorial MC- Batavia
WCA Hospital - Jamestown

California:
San Diego Regional - San Diego

Michigan:
Beaumont- Trenton

Almost all of these have some residencies, so I'll let whoever is interested look those up. Many are just FM or FM & IM, but many sites also have a variety of programs.

For now I'll list programs specifically at the bigger (in terms of the number of students they take) LECOM clinical sites, because something like 1/3 of LECOM E/SH students will be at one of these sites.

LECOM Health/MCH - (AOA) FM, IM, Ortho, Psych, Ophtho (heard its closing, not sure), ENT, & NMM. Fellowships include GI, Sports, Geriatrics, OMM, PCCM, Child & Adolescent Psych, & Integrative Medicine.

AOMC - (AOA) FM, IM, EM, Psych, Gen Surg, & Rads. Fellowships include GI, Cards, Endo, & Geriatrics.

St. Vincent (technically part of AHN, but it's a different site for us) - FM, EM, and Colorectal Surg & Sports fellowships.

AHN - Many, both AOA & ACGME, but the main hospital affiliated with us is FM (unopposed). That said the clinical campus people rotate through all the hospitals that have residencies, but AHN is also a clinical site for Drexel and Temple students (this is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it).

St. John's Episcopal - FM, IM (ACGME), Psych, Gen Surg, Derm, OB/Gyn, and Ophtho.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Oh thank god you guys are writing this. We needed a thread like this since the beginning of time.

On a side note. I have also read that osteopathic students rotate with allopathic students. Do osteopathic students ever have rotations with ACGME residents? If so, under what rotations for each respective school?

Also what is the limit in one specialty for elective rotation months for each representative school?

 

[Elevencents]

Oh thank god you guys are writing this. We needed a thread like this since the beginning of time.

On a side note. I have also read that osteopathic students rotate with allopathic students. Do osteopathic students ever have rotations with ACGME residents? If so, under what rotations for each respective school?

Also what is the limit in one specialty for elective rotation months for each representative school?

It's based simply on the residency at the particular hospital you are rotating at. Hospitals associated with MD schools will largely have AGCME residencies but not necessarily all of them.

 

[Dr. Death]

Hello all, after going through DO school and being a resident for a bit, I have noticed that the single most determining factor to DO perception and success in residency stems from the 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations. In all honesty, this is the major difference between DO and MD training. There’s a lot of talk about what schools have this and that rotations but information is difficult to find for prospective DOs. Clinical rotations are something that too few pre-meds think about.

I thought it would be useful for us to make a list of our schools and what they offer prospective DO students for 3rd and 4th year. I figured I could post this here for 1st and 2nd year students and it could be moved to pre-osteo at some point as well. It would be nice to keep the same/similar format for easy comparison when applicable. I can start it off with my own school of which the site selection guide is found available on the Internet:

ATSU-KCOM

Length at each site: 2 years – complete 3rd and 4th year

How is site determined?: match “lottery” similar to the residency match but is not based on merit. Each site has a number of spots (ex. Christian St. Louis has ~15, Kirksville ~12, etc.)

Do students have to set up their own rotations?: No, unless they want to go outside their designated site

Freedom to do rotations outside of designated site?: Yes, with exemption for required rotations and no restrictions for 3 months of electives/auditions

States/Sites: Arizona (1 – multiple hospitals), Illinois (4), Michigan (7), Missouri (14), New Jersey (1), Ohio (6), Pennsylvania (1), Utah (3)

Home Hospital: Yes – attached to medical school; Northeast Regional Medical Center - Kirksville

Residencies offered: Anes, Derm, FM, Gen. Surg, FM/NMM, IM, IM/NMM, ENT


True Academic University Sites (Residencies): None


Community Sites (Residencies):

Arizona:

- Phoenix: Banner Samaritan (FM, IM, OB-GYN, Ortho, Psych, Gen. Surg, IM/Peds)

- Phoenix: Maricopa Medical Center (EM, IM, OB-GYN, Psych, Rads, Gen. Surg)

- Phoenix: Phoenix Baptist (FM)

- Phoenix: St. Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center (FM, IM, NSG, Neurology, Rads, Gen. Surg)


Illinois:

- Bloomington/Normal: Advocate Bromenn (FM, Neurology, NSG)

- Springfield: SIU - Carbondale (FM)

- Peoria: Univ of IL - UnityPoint Methodist (FM, Psych)


Michigan

- Commerce: DMC Huron Valley (Rads, ENT, IM, FM, Uro)

- Detroit: DMC Sinai-Grace (Anes, Rads, Gen. Surg, Vasc. Surg, ENT, Ortho, IM, Uro)

- Grand Blanc: Genesys Medical Center (IM, FM, EM, OB-GYN, Ortho, Rads)

- Grand Rapids: MetroHealth (IM, FM, EM, OB-GYN, ENT, Ortho, Uro)

- Trenton: Oakwood Southshore (IM, FM, EM, Derm, Gen. Surg, OB-GYN, Rads, Ophtho)

- Warren: St. John’s Macomb (IM, EM, Gen. Surg, OB-Gyn)

- Madison Heights: St. John’s Oakland (EM, FM, Gen. Surg, IM, Neurology, Ophtho, Ortho, ENT, Uro)


Missouri

- Jefferson City: Capital Medical Center (FM)

- Joplin: Freeman (EM, ENT, IM)

- Springfield: Cox Health Mercy (FM)

- St. Louis: Christian Northeast (FM, IM, Psych)

- St. Louis: Des Peres (Anes, FM, IM, Gen. Surg, Ortho, ENT)


New Jersey

- Bayonne: Bayonne Medical Center (FM)


Ohio

- Massilon: Affinity Medical Center (FM, EM, Gen Surg, Ortho)

- Columbus: Doctor’s Hospital (Anes, EM, FM, Gen Surg, IM-EM, NSG, OB/Gyn, Ophtho, Ortho, ENT, Peds, Rads)

- Athens: O’Bleness Hospital (FM, Derm, OB/Gyn, Ortho, OMM/NMM)

- Warren: St. Joseph Warren Hospital (EM, FM, IM, Ortho)

- Cuyahoga Falls: Western Reserve Hospital (EM, FM, Gen. Surg, IM, Ortho, Derm)


Pennsylvania

- Lititz: Heart of Lancaster (Anes, FM, IM)



Community Sites (Preceptor-Based):


Illinois

- Carbondale: SIU-Carbondale


Missouri

- Cape Girardeau: SouthEAST Health and St. Francis

- Farmington: Parkland Health and Mineral Area

- Kennett: Twin Rivers

- Rolla: Phelps

- St. Joseph: Mosaic Life

- West Plains: Ozarks


Utah (Some loose affiliation with Univ. of Utah)

- Logan

- Provo

- Salt Lake City



Notables:

- Greater than 80% (don’t have accurate numbers and could be higher) of class will be located in community programs with residencies, established lectures, teaching, etc.

- Diversity of locations can be a plus or minus but can stay at home institution

- Most of the preceptor-based spots go unfilled

- > 97% of students usually get one of their top 3 choices

- Residencies above are mixture of AOA and ACGME but with merger I didn’t split them

Would you say that going to a state DO school like OSU where they have a teaching hospital would be almost comparable to MD clinical education?

 

[IslandStyle808]

It's based simply on the residency at the particular hospital you are rotating at. Hospitals associated with MD schools will largely have AGCME residencies but not necessarily all of them.

So if the hospital has a ACGME internal residency program and osteopathic students are doing their internal medicine rotation at that hospital, then the training will be with that program? I hope I am understanding correctly.

 

[Elevencents]

So if the hospital has a ACGME internal residency program and osteopathic students are doing their internal medicine rotation at that hospital, then the training will be with that program? I hope I am understanding correctly.

Yep.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yep.

Awesome thanks.

 

[deleted564680]

Bump...we have 2 schools covered. I feel like we can do better than that Remember back when you were a young lad/lass and wanted to know this information! Share your schools clinical prowess!

 

[tripl3s3v3n]

The one "core selective" rotation in 3rd year may be done anywhere

The 3rd year core selective was replaced with a Geriatric Med rotation at Erie for all rotations (yes, even the San Diego people have to come back for that one). They said it was done so that we could have electives early 4th year for audition rotations.

 

[abolt18]

Oh thank god you guys are writing this. We needed a thread like this since the beginning of time.

On a side note. I have also read that osteopathic students rotate with allopathic students. Do osteopathic students ever have rotations with ACGME residents? If so, under what rotations for each respective school?

Also what is the limit in one specialty for elective rotation months for each representative school?

I have 2 of my core rotations-OB/GYN and outpatient IM- at ACGME residency programs (though the programs have no university affiliation) because the hospital for my core rotations lacks both of these things so they have an agreement with a hospital ten minutes away.

 

[nhnative]

This is an awesome idea! I would really appreciate if anyone from Rocky Vista could comment on rotations. I am accepted there for class of 2020, and am 90% sold on going there (live in CO and love it, good board scores, good residency placements etc). My only concern is that I have heard inpatient hospital rotations are limited, and am wondering about the quality of rotations in general.

Thanks to anyone willing to take the time!!

 

[Dr. Death]

This is an awesome idea! I would really appreciate if anyone from Rocky Vista could comment on rotations. I am accepted there for class of 2020, and am 90% sold on going there (live in CO and love it, good board scores, good residency placements etc). My only concern is that I have heard inpatient hospital rotations are limited, and am wondering about the quality of rotations in general.

Thanks to anyone willing to take the time!!

If nobody on here has information for you I'm sure you can email the admissions people or get ahold of the email of the clinical education dean and they could give you more info. I know some schools have pdf files that explain the rotation locations and possibilities.

 

[nwmedapplicant]

ohh boy.. PNWU and rotations...the story to tell. It's late and I'm tired but - it's pretty slapstick!!!

 

[Dr. Death]

ohh boy.. PNWU and rotations...the story to tell. It's late and I'm tired but - it's pretty slapstick!!!

Ok you can't leave us on a cliffhanger. We want stories!

 

[Bea5T]

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/CCOMClinEd/studentArea.htm

CCOM^. Old site but I think it's still relevant

 

[IslandStyle808]

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/CCOMClinEd/studentArea.htm

CCOM^. Old site but I think it's still relevant

12 weeks of family medicine! That's really long....

 

[Dr. Adamantium]

ohh boy.. PNWU and rotations...the story to tell. It's late and I'm tired but - it's pretty slapstick!!!

@nwmedapplicant Can you please elaborate on this? Thanks in advance!

 

[Catfish-Cupcake]

ohh boy.. PNWU and rotations...the story to tell. It's late and I'm tired but - it's pretty slapstick!!!

I just interviewed there and would love to hear what you think about the rotations. OP don't let us down!!

 

[ninjaman22]

I can't comment on any of the rotation site for CUSOM since I am a 2nd year. But here is what I could find. Btw all of our rotation hospitals are in NC.

Region 1: Lumberton Regional Campus (Robeson County)


Southeastern Health's Southeastern Regional Medical Center in Lumberton, NC is the primary healthcare center for Region 1.
Southeastern Health will welcome third year medical students in July 2015.
CUSOM is proud to partner with Southeastern Health for MS-III and MS-IV rotations as well as our Campbell University affiliated Residency programs.

Region 2: Fayetteville Regional Campus (Cumberland County)


Cape Fear Valley Medical Center in Fayetteville, NC is the primary healthcare center in Region 2.
The medical center is a 594 bed Level III trauma center with over 94,000 ER visits annually.
CUSOM is proud to partner with Cape Fear Valley Health System for MS-III and MS-IV rotations.
Cape Fear Valley will welcome third year medical students in July 2015.
For more information visit the Cape Fear Valley Medical Center webpage.

Region 3: Raleigh Regional Campus (Wake & Harnett County)

WakeMed Health and Hospitals and Harnett Health are the two primary healthcare facilities in Region 3.
CUSOM students will enjoy rotations at WakeMed Raleigh and WakeMed Cary.

WakeMed Raleigh, a Level I trauma center, is a 554 bed hospital with over 70,000 ER visits annually.
WakeMed Cary is a 146 bed hospital with over 37,000 ER visits each year.

Harnett Health has two hospitals: Central Harnett Hospital and Betsy Johnson Hospital. The 151 bed health system has over 36,000 ER visits annually.
Region 3 will welcome third year medical students in July 2015.

Region 4: Charlotte Regional Campus (Salisbury & Mecklenburg County)


Novant Health Rowan Medical Center is the primary healthcare facility in Region 4.

Rowan Medical Center is a 181 bed hosital with 28,800 ER visits annually.
CUSOM is proud to partner with Novant Health Rowan Medical Center for MS-III and MS-IV rotations.
Rowan Medical Center will welcome third year medical students in July 2015.

Region 5: Goldsboro Regional Campus (Sampson & Wayne County)
Wayne Memorial Hospital and Sampson Regional Medical Center are the primary healthcare facilities in Region 5.

CUSOM is proud to partner with Wayne Memorial and Sampson Regional for MS-III and MS-IV rotations as well as affiliate Residency programs.

**for anyone interested - this hospital has CUSOM's Dermatology residency**

3rd Year Clinical Rotation
CUSOM’s third year osteopathic medical students are required to complete the following rotations.

Each rotation is estimated at approximately 160 contact hours. The rotations for third year must be successfully completed to progress to the fourth year.

Internal Medicine I (4 weeks)
Internal Medicine II (4 weeks)
Medical Selective* (4 weeks)
Surgery (4 weeks)
Obstetrics/Gynecology (4 weeks)
Family Medicine (4 weeks)
Pediatrics (4 weeks)
Psychiatry/Behavioral Science (4 weeks)
Rural/Underserved/International (4 weeks)
Simulation Medicine (4 weeks) – completed at the medical school
Elective (4 weeks)
Clinical Academic Assessment (4 weeks) – completed at the medical school
*Third year Medical Selectives include: Cardiology, Hematology, Gastroenterology, General Internal Medicine, Nephrology and Pulmonology.

4th Year Clinical Rotation
CUSOM’s fourth year osteopathic medical students are required to complete the following clinical rotations.

Medical Selective I and II (8 weeks)
Primary Care Selective (4 weeks)
Surgical Selective (4 weeks)
Geriatrics (4 weeks)
Sub-internship (4 weeks)
Emergency Medicine (4 weeks)
Electives I, II, III, IV* (16 weeks)
* One of the fourth year electives must be a Sub-Internship (Sub-I) and this rotation should be completed before audition rotations.

The fourth year Primary Care, Medical, and Surgical selectives are to be completed at CUSOM sites where CUSOM has established affiliation agreements and approved faculty.

Hope this helps!

 

[Torilynn92]

Any ACOM, VCOM, or LMU-DCOM students wanna chime in? I'd love to hear about these schools, and how their rotational placement measures up.

 

[Bill Brasky]

http://osteopathic.nova.edu/do/clinical_rotation.html

NSU lists everything on its website, but not all of these are "home" sites, but rather individual hospitals that work together to create a full slate of rotations for each "track". Some of the "home base" tracks that I know of:

Broward Health - Ft. Lauderdale. This is almost entirely at the massive Broward Health hospital.
Mt. Sinai - North Miami Beach, FL. Only some of your rotations are in the hospital, others may be at clinics in Miami-Dade county.
PBCGME: http://www.pbcgme.com/- Throughout Palm Beach county, mostly West Palm Beach
Palmetto - Miami. Entirely done at Palmetto Hospital.
Larkin - Miami. Pretty sure everything is at Larkin, but it is a very small hospital so sometimes your patient exposure is light.
Kendall Regional - Miami-Dade County. Rotations are at Kendall Regional Hospital, Aventura Hospital, and clinics throughout Miami-Dade.
Memorial - Broward County, mostly Hollywood, FL. Mostly done at Memorial Regional Hospital.
Florida Hospital East - Orlando, FL.
Largo - Largo/Clearwater, FL. Mostly at Largo Community Hospital in Largo, FL. I think you may get sent to Tampa for Peds.
Naples Community Hospital - Naples, FL
Lee Memorial - Ft. Myers, FL. There are actually 4 core hospitals in Fort Myers for this track.
Osteopathic Institute of the South - Georgia, I think it's mostly around Atlanta? EDIT: Also sites in Warner Robbins and Columbus, GA. For this one, you may have to move around the state a bit. This varies from person to person, it depends on how aggressive you are in working with them to set things up. Definitely a track for proactive people only.
Southampton/Good Samaritan - East side of Long Island in New York. You will drive to a few hospitals that are up to an hour a way (like Good Samaritan), and housing is extremely expensive.
Magnolia Regional - Corinth, MS - I know this one is all done at one site
Bethesda Memorial - Boynton Beach, FL

edit 2/24/16: There is another Palm Beach county track, Palm Beach Gardens Hospital. I also forgot Westside Regional/Plantation General Hospital track - I guess you rotate at both, they are both in south Broward county, very close to the school. Plantation General is attempting to relocate to the NSU main campus to become the university's official teaching hospital, so this track might morph into that one day.

 

[NagisaStar]

PNWU-COM

http://www.pnwu.edu/students/clinical-rotations/

Alaska
Anchorage
Fairbanks
Idaho
Boise/Meridian/Nampa
Blackfoot
Montana
Billings
Great Falls
Missoula
Oregon
Portland
Washington
Centralia
Aberdeen
Mt.Vernon
Puyallup
Spokane
Tri-cities
Yakima
Walla Walla

There may be others like Bellevue that are not on the website, but have been listed elsewhere while the site selection for the students is currently being figured out
Point system lottery type of deal.

 

[Catfish-Cupcake]

PNWU-COM

http://www.pnwu.edu/students/clinical-rotations/

Alaska
Anchorage
Fairbanks
Idaho
Boise/Meridian/Nampa
Blackfoot
Montana
Billings
Great Falls
Missoula
Oregon
Portland
Washington
Centralia
Aberdeen
Mt.Vernon
Puyallup
Spokane
Tri-cities
Yakima
Walla Walla

There may be others like Bellevue that are not on the website, but have been listed elsewhere while the site selection for the students is currently being figured out
Point system lottery type of deal.

Have you rotated yet? What do you think about the quality of the rotations?

 

[nwmedapplicant]

Length at each site: Core rotations are 6 weeks. However a student can spend anywhere from 2 weeks to all 6 weeks at a individual site (depending on the preceptor's availability). Not uncommon to do 4 weeks paediatrics at one site and then 2 weeks somewhere else.

How is site determined?: Scoring criteria based on the following:

Priority Status:

In an attempt to allow students from the 5-State region to rotate closest to where they are from (defined by one of the following):

i. Born (confirmed by Birth Certificate)

ii. Grad HS (confirmed with HS diploma)

iii. Grad College (confirmed with College diploma)

iv. Had residence in city at the time of matriculation (Confirmed with dated monthly bills)

v. Had residence in city at the time of matriculation and maintained residence (Confirmed with dated monthly bills)

vi. “Priority Status” can be allotted for a non-student spouse, provided the spouse qualifies for one of the five above criteria (one point max allotted for the spouse)

Students may select the site closest to where they are from as a “Priority Status”. Priority status will be tiered based on the following formula. One point allotted for each of the above criteria. (Hence a priority status may be worth 1 point to 6 points) The more points,the higher the priority status. In cases where the student is within 30 miles of having geographic proximity to more than one site the student may identify the site of their preference for “Priority Status”.

Do students have to set up their own rotations?: Third year core rotations are set by the local coordinator with 4 weeks elective time being open to scheduling by the student. Fourth year is set up and scheduled by the student.

Freedom to do rotations outside of designated site?: Yes for fourth year

States/Sites: Oregon, Washington, Montana, Idaho, Alaska

Home Hospital: no

Residencies offered: none officially


True Academic University Sites (Residencies): None


opinion:
The quality of the rotations are good overall from what I've heard from classmates at different sites.

the website list of rotation sites isn't up to date. I believe one of the Montana ones closed (at least for this year), and there are more sites in rural Washington (Chelan & Wenatchee). Oregon has a Hermiston site as well (with two rotation spots).

However, the Portland site is having a lot of difficulties finding local preceptors for rotations. I'm not sure if it was the class size increase and/or the competition with OHSU, AT Still, and Western medical schools for the difficulty. It is common now for rotations to be in Chelan, Wenatchee, or Longview. I've heard of students being scheduled for family practice rotations in Montana 8 months in advance. How hard can it be to find a family practice doc in the Portland, Vancouver, Salem area?!

I personally think the worse part is getting the email days in advance that you are going 6 hours away for 6 weeks and 'we are still trying to find a family to host you'! So you have the option of finding your own rental for a month to six weeks, oftentimes only getting a weeks notice where you are going, and the school has a $500 4 week stipend/ $750 6 week stipend for away housing - or you stay with whoever they found you to stay with. Good luck finding a studio apartment for that stipend.
Not only will you have your portland rental/house payment - you potentially also will have to shell out extra cash for a place to stay (unless you don't have a problem staying in a stranger's house) for 6 weeks. Kinda like the military in a way - only you are paying $50,000/year for it. Therefore it's financially tricky for most of us, and for those with families - you are potentially separated for weeks on end if your kids are in school.

Rotation quality in the Portland area is good to great for Paediatrics, OB/GYN, Surgery, and OMT. Hit and miss for Family practice. 'Internal medicine' is pretty much family practice again with that doc having hospital privileges. No true inpatient experience.

The fourth year you pretty much setup your entire schedule yourself. I hear many schools are this way.

I believe Sylvanthus was in Yakima for his 3rd and 4th years - he had a lot of feedback on that site if you search the site.

 

[Dr. Death]

Does anybody know if the rotations at TUCOM are ward based? Are there year long rotations? 2 year sites?

 

[Harker Heights]

UNTHSC/TCOM (Fort Worth, TX)
JPS Hospital in Fort Worth - main teaching hospital, 537-bed, Level 1 trauma
Cook Children's Medical Center in Fort Worth - for peds rotations, 429-bed
Harris Methodist Hospital in Fort Worth
Plaza Medical Center in Fort Worth
Alternate sites for students wanting to go outside Fort Worth or wanting to be near family:
Methodist Dallas Medical Center in Dallas
Driscoll Children's Hospital in Corpus Christi
Plus regional hospitals in Baytown, Conroe and Corpus Christi.

 

[asdf123g]

Im pretty ignorant. Im not entirely sure how to interpret this information. All I know, or what I think I know to be true, is more beds=good. And close to "home base" = good. How do ignorant premeds like myself evaluate what schools have good rotations and what doesnt?

 

[Dr. Death]

Im pretty ignorant. Im not entirely sure how to interpret this information. All I know, or what I think I know to be true, is more beds=good. And close to "home base" = good. How do ignorant premeds like myself evaluate what schools have good rotations and what doesnt?

ward based = good located at residency hospitals = good

 

[costales]

All I know, or what I think I know to be true, is more beds=good. And close to "home base" = good.

You don't need to have 10,000 beds or see Ebola to get a good clinical education, and proximity is just a (big) convenience. In general it helps tremendously to be exposed to a variety and volume of medical conditions/patients, gain a passing proficiency in H&P and SOAP notes - and a working knowledge of at least one EMR system e.g. EPIC, try some hands-on practice in a few bread-and-butter techniques, learn to attempt a half-decent differential or explanation under pressure, and be able to quickly adapt to a variety of presenting and writing styles.

H&P = history and physical exam
SOAP = subjective, objective, assessment and plan
EMR = electronic medical record
EPIC = what made Judith Faulkner the richest woman in healthcare

 

[IslandStyle808]

You don't need to have 10,000 beds or see Ebola to get a good clinical education, and proximity is just a (big) convenience. In general it helps tremendously to be exposed to a variety and volume of medical conditions/patients, gain a passing proficiency in H&P and SOAP notes - and a working knowledge of at least one EMR system e.g. EPIC, try some hands-on practice in a few bread-and-butter techniques, learn to attempt a half-decent differential or explanation under pressure, and be able to quickly adapt to a variety of presenting and writing styles.

H&P = history and physical exam
SOAP = subjective, objective, assessment and plan
EMR = electronic medical record
EPIC = what made Judith Faulkner the richest woman in healthcare

Had some questions about the bolded?

From what I have read in the past, having rotations near the school makes it easier to have quality control. If there are complaints and issues the students had, then it would be more easily resolved versus having far off rotations. Do you believe this to be true?

I am under the impression that closer to home means rotations that are less likely to be dropped. Does dropped rotation happen at the same frequency whether close to home or far away, from what you have heard from others?

Also, what benefits have you seen with close proximity rotations?

 

[asdf123g]

^first thing that came into my mind was short commute...

 

[costales]

I didn't mean to downplay proximity because it is definitely a huge plus. In the case of TCOM, many attendings are also faculty members, the school president is joined at the hip with the hospital CEO, and there are many alumni in area hospitals and clinics. But if you look at auditions and electives where people disappear and go wherever they want, their education doesn't seem to suffer much from the distance (their pocketbook is a different story). I can't comment on dropped rotations because the sites listed above seem to have been affiliated with TCOM for a long time, and AFAIK the only time rotations were changed was when they demolished the osteopathic hospital (few people rotated there anyway).

 

[ortnakas]

I am under the impression that closer to home means rotations that are less likely to be dropped. Does dropped rotation happen at the same frequency whether close to home or far away, from what you have heard from others?

At my school, it's more about how established it is as a rotation site than it is about geography. There's out-of-state ones we've had connections with for years and problems are highly unlikely, while some nearby ones are newer and might be riskier.

 

[IslandStyle808]

At my school, it's more about how established it is as a rotation site than it is about geography. There's out-of-state ones we've had connections with for years and problems are highly unlikely, while some nearby ones are newer and might be riskier.

Makes sense. My worry is more for those rotations that have been there for sometime faraway, but are dropped because of a school opening up in the same state. This seems to be happening recently with expanding schools (also class sizes).

 

[Late Bloomer]

LMU-DCOM

Length at core site (OB, gen surg, peds, psych, IM 1&2) - 6 months. Lottery system to determine site location and if you do core 1st or 2nd semester of 3rd yr. FM + 3 selectives (pre-approved by DCOM) + 2 electives of ur choosing are done in the other semester.
Clinical sites are spread across the Southeast area and there is no preference given if u have ties to a certain location. U get what you get unless another classmate will switch.
Yes, students set up their own rotations (except core at ur assigned site). If you are pleased with the training u get at ur core site, u can usually pick up electives there too. However many sites are rural and don't offer much variety.
We often don't find out if our rotation is confirmed until a couple of days before you're supposed to start, so u always hafta have a backup plan.
There are no academic hospitals or residencies affiliated with us. If you're not in a small community hospital with an attending, ur in a clinic. You may get lucky and get to learn from a random resident here & there if u get a core site that's within an hour of a residency program.

I knew when I chose DCOM that there wasn't a home hospital and I'd hafta move to get my 3rd & 4th yr training. But I did not know the training would be so insufficient and I'm very worried about how I'm gonna stack up during auditions with other students, even DO students who had academic hospitals to train in.
There does seem to be a small portion of my class who are being educated, challenged, and getting their money's worth at their core site, but way too many of us are not.
I'm hoping the electives that I'm able to choose for myself will bridge some of the giant gap that my core rotations should've provided.

 

[IslandStyle808]

LMU-DCOM

I'm hoping the electives that I'm able to choose for myself will bridge some of the giant gap that my core rotations should've provided.

Thank you for the response. Was it difficult for your classmates to set up their electives at hospitals with residencies? Is it easier to do this in Tennessee?

 

[cbtk18]

LMU-DCOM

Length at core site (OB, gen surg, peds, psych, IM 1&2) - 6 months. Lottery system to determine site location and if you do core 1st or 2nd semester of 3rd yr. FM + 3 selectives (pre-approved by DCOM) + 2 electives of ur choosing are done in the other semester.
Clinical sites are spread across the Southeast area and there is no preference given if u have ties to a certain location. U get what you get unless another classmate will switch.
Yes, students set up their own rotations (except core at ur assigned site). If you are pleased with the training u get at ur core site, u can usually pick up electives there too. However many sites are rural and don't offer much variety.
We often don't find out if our rotation is confirmed until a couple of days before you're supposed to start, so u always hafta have a backup plan.
There are no academic hospitals or residencies affiliated with us. If you're not in a small community hospital with an attending, ur in a clinic. You may get lucky and get to learn from a random resident here & there if u get a core site that's within an hour of a residency program.

I knew when I chose DCOM that there wasn't a home hospital and I'd hafta move to get my 3rd & 4th yr training. But I did not know the training would be so insufficient and I'm very worried about how I'm gonna stack up during auditions with other students, even DO students who had academic hospitals to train in.
There does seem to be a small portion of my class who are being educated, challenged, and getting their money's worth at their core site, but way too many of us are not.
I'm hoping the electives that I'm able to choose for myself will bridge some of the giant gap that my core rotations should've provided.

I went to LMU-DCOM and it is sad to hear that things haven't changed. There is a serious problem with clinical rotations at that place. It is borderline criminal how much money you pay for years 3-4 and how little they provide in regards to adequate clinical education. Tiny hospitals in the middle of nowhere, no oversight, no pathology, almost zero expectations, etc... The bad part is that while you are there, you don't realize how tragic it is because you have nothing to compare it to. But once you go on electives at academic instututions (and especially get into residency), you are exposed to how medical education is supposed to be and know you were 100% ripped off by your medical school. It's embarrassing.

The first two years I thought were adequate for training at DCOM. But all that knowledge is pretty much useless if you don't know how to apply it, and that is what you are supposed to learn in your clinical years.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Thank you for the response. Was it difficult for your classmates to set up their electives at hospitals with residencies? Is it easier to do this in Tennessee?

I guess it depends on the elective.

I went to LMU-DCOM and it is sad to hear that things haven't changed. There is a serious problem with clinical rotations at that place. It is borderline criminal how much money you pay for years 3-4 and how little they provide in regards to adequate clinical education. Tiny hospitals in the middle of nowhere, no oversight, no pathology, almost zero expectations, etc... The bad part is that while you are there, you don't realize how tragic it is because you have nothing to compare it to. But once you go on electives at academic instututions (and especially get into residency), you are exposed to how medical education is supposed to be and know you were 100% ripped off by your medical school. It's embarrassing.

The first two years I thought were adequate for training at DCOM. But all that knowledge is pretty much useless if you don't know how to apply it, and that is what you are supposed to learn in your clinical years.

I went to LMU-DCOM and it is sad to hear that things haven't changed. There is a serious problem with clinical rotations at that place. It is borderline criminal how much money you pay for years 3-4 and how little they provide in regards to adequate clinical education. Tiny hospitals in the middle of nowhere, no oversight, no pathology, almost zero expectations, etc... The bad part is that while you are there, you don't realize how tragic it is because you have nothing to compare it to. But once you go on electives at academic instututions (and especially get into residency), you are exposed to how medical education is supposed to be and know you were 100% ripped off by your medical school. It's embarrassing.

The first two years I thought were adequate for training at DCOM. But all that knowledge is pretty much useless if you don't know how to apply it, and that is what you are supposed to learn in your clinical years.

This is 1000% true. I have some friends who've actually tried to transfer to another DO school during 3rd year due to these issues, but they'd hafta repeat 3rd year at the new school. Most of us at LMU-DCOM are getting robbed!

 

[IslandStyle808]

I guess it depends on the elective.


This is 1000% true. I have some friends who've actually tried to transfer to another DO school during 3rd year due to these issues, but they'd hafta repeat 3rd year at the new school. Most of us at LMU-DCOM are getting robbed!

This seems to be a common theme amongst most rural schools. One of the few exceptions I believe is WVSOM, they seem to have a good chunk of hospitals with residencies. This is scary to know.

 

[deleted407021]

PCOM-GA, pls?

 

[CajunMedic]

WCUCOM

Ours are broken up by hubsite. Each hub may have 4-5 hospitals and multiple clinics, etc. The goal is to have no one drive more than 50 miles from their hub for a rotation

Length at each site: 1 year: OMS-3, OMS-4 is all electives.

How is site determined?: Depends, some require an application (primarily those with residencies) and rank applicants, others are 1st come-1st serve. Students fill out a "dream sheet" ranking hub sites

Do students have to set up their own rotations?: Only in 4th year, with assistance from rotations office

Freedom to do rotations outside of designated site?: 4th year only

States/Sites: Alabama-1, Louisiana-2, Mississippi-8, Military-1

Home Hospital: No

No True Academic Sites

Sites with residencies:
Hattiesburg, MS (IM, EM, FM)
Tupelo, MS (IM-ACGME)
Corinth, MS (IM)
Jackson, MS (FM/OMT, Dual Accredited)
Meridian, MS (FM/OMT)
Centreville, AL (FM/OMT)

 

[QueenJames]

Anybody for ATSU-SOMA please? (Particularly the CA CHC or any other CHC is fine )

 

[FBurnaby]

I'm seriously considering LMUDCOM and these responses are very concerning.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I'm seriously considering LMUDCOM and these responses are very concerning.

Remember when you asked about large class sizes and how it would affect you, this is the reason.

 

[deleted564680]

There's a reason why they say to pick one of the "original five" or state-sponsored D.O. schools....rotations.

 

[NBLogical]

Another pre-med learning the ropes, but here's what I'm getting so far:
- Academic university hospitals > Small community hospitals (pretty big generalization and I understand that training at small hospitals can be adequate as well)
- Hospitals with residency programs (AOA/ACGME) = good, duh
- Home-hospitals = good, since close proximity
- Established rotations > non-establish (proximity plays a role in this as well)
- Smaller class size = good (more personalized)
- More rotation sites = better? since less applicants for each spot?

- Overarching theme: find upper-class mentors

 

[kenjixshadow]

Another pre-med learning the ropes, but here's what I'm getting so far:
- Academic university hospitals > Small community hospitals (pretty big generalization and I understand that training at small hospitals can be adequate as well)

For surgery and medicine rotations, academic hospitals win in every aspect. The reason is being it is not purely about the number of patients, it's the variety. There is very little to learn on your 5th patient with the same ailment. You need a big enough hospital with high enough turnover that it handles a wide variety of issues in a wide variety of specialties. The big hospitals see the more complicated medical issues. The smaller hospitals see the same 5 things over and over again.

- Hospitals with residency programs (AOA/ACGME) = good, duh

You would want more teaching, pathology, scheduled noon conferences, daily morning report, and specific lectures for students.

- Home-hospitals = good, since close proximity

DO schools are unlike to build their own teaching hospitals. You'll find some of them have hit or miss hospital affiliations.

- Smaller class size = good (more personalized)

Smaller class size doesn't really exist in DO world.

- More rotation sites = better? since less applicants for each spot?

Some rotations are good and some are not. This is when you need to ask your upperclassmen for their feedback and avoid the bad ones.

- Overarching theme: find upper-class mentors

Good, but not all of them may know what they are talking about and give you a kook-aid to drink. Your best bet would be researching any topic on your own if you can.

 

[NBLogical]

For surgery and medicine rotations, academic hospitals win in every aspect. The reason is being it is not purely about the number of patients, it's the variety. There is very little to learn on your 5th patient with the same ailment. You need a big enough hospital with high enough turnover that it handles a wide variety of issues in a wide variety of specialties. The big hospitals see the more complicated medical issues. The smaller hospitals see the same 5 things over and over again.

You would want more teaching, pathology, scheduled noon conferences, daily morning report, and specific lectures for students.

DO schools are unlike to build their own teaching hospitals. You'll find some of them have hit or miss hospital affiliations.

Smaller class size doesn't really exist in DO world.

Some rotations are good and some are not. This is when you need to ask your upperclassmen for their feedback and avoid the bad ones.

Good, but not all of them may know what they are talking about and give you a kook-aid to drink. Your best bet would be researching any topic on your own if you can.

Thanks for the response! I still have plenty of researching to do, but I'm glad I'm at least getting the hang of things.