Columbia Waitlist

[TheFlash]

A couple of questions:
-Best to call or not to call?
-If you don't get an interview with Frantz, should you push for one (call, etc.)? Do people get off list who don't have a (second) interview with him?
-How often should you write letters? What should you focus on in these letters (your recent accomplishments or why you want to go to the school)?


Thanks!
Good luck to all!

All of these questions are answered within the thread already. There are also at least 10 Columbia waitlist threads floating around sdn if you use the search function. Reading is fundamental.

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[CalBeE]

A couple of questions:
-Best to call or not to call?
-If you don't get an interview with Frantz, should you push for one (call, etc.)? Do people get off list who don't have a (second) interview with him?
-How often should you write letters? What should you focus on in these letters (your recent accomplishments or why you want to go to the school)?


Thanks!
Good luck to all!

People w/o second interview did get in, but they also didn't know about the possibility of it. I guess a better question (still a mystery) is whether people who are denied a second interview (yet didn't interview with Dr. Frantz the first time) have a chance at all. Totally unranked waitlist is B.S. in my opinion, and the waitlistees were probably already secretly put into tiers already.

I think Columbia likes people calling and sending letters, but not excessively. The problem is after 1-2 calls, you run out of reason to call anymore. I'll write a letter every 4-6 weeks, and DON'T push for a second interview...bad thing to do in my opinion.

 

[rCubed]

i was just wondering how many of u had written LOI's. I've written one letter so far and will probably write another one next week, but i haven't told Dean Frantz that I will attend if accepted. I'm still on some waitlists of schools that I would probably attend over columbia. and i feel uncomfortable writing an LOI when there's a chance i wouldn't attend columbia. but i do realize how important an LOI is to getting off the waitlist....

how do u guys feel about this? anyone in the same position?

 

[TheFlash]

Well, I think they prefer people who say that they would attend if accepted. I myself haven't written one because I know I ethically cannot, as I don't know if I'd attend Columbia definitely if accepted. You also don't want to write one like that to Dr. Frantz, get accepted, and then not go... I'm sure he'd be irate and try to find out where you actually were going. If he got in touch with that admissions office, I don't think it'd be pretty. Letters of intent are not something to be taken lightly. Especially at Columbia, where the admissions dean is an active, networking entity.

 

[medstylee]

Yeah, I got a reply to my letter as well - pretty much the same as the one kweenkong got: "...want you to know that we haven't forgotten about you." "...you may rest assured that your candidacy will remain under very active consideration."

I'm not sure what else I can really write about in another letter. It's not like my life has changed in any sort of profound way since the last one. Has anyone had a good phone conversation with Dr. Frantz about the waitlist - as in, do you think it's better to call than to just keep writing letters? I feel like I'm not being pro-active enough with my attempts, at least according to those who have posted advice about getting off the list last year. errrrr.

 

[CalBeE]

excessive calling and writing letters do seem annoying though, don't you think? I've written 3 letters to Admissions committee and I just feel that if they don't get the point that Columbia's my first choice, I don't know what else do.

 

[medstylee]

yeah, that's the thing. you hear from everyone that it's best to keep expressing your continued interest over and over. but, personally, i'm starting to feel like a pest already, and i've only sent two letters - one right after my waitlist and another about 6 weeks later. who the hell really knows what the "right way" to handle the waitlist is, but it's getting really frustrating. i don't want to blow my chances, it's already such a long shot at this point. may 15 is coming up and, from the looks of last year's thread, the waitlist started moving pretty shortly after (late may). besides calling once, i'm thinking about just sitting tight until then, although it's going to be really tough. best of luck.

 

[patzan]

Dr. Frantz included his phone number on a letter in response to a letter of mine. I called him a few weeks ago and talked with him for a few minutes. He kind of gave me the run around and told me to call back in May when he would have more time to consider second interviews, but he will not consider them now (he's teaching). He also mentioned at that time that only one person had come off the waitlist and it was a "special circumstance" type of thing. Don't expect movement from the waitlist until late May.
Hope that helps anyone considering calling and those in an eternal holding pattern.

 

[TheFlash]

I got a response from Dr. Frantz recently. He said that withdrawls were coming in much later this year than last. He stated that there has been very little movement off the alternate list (which I'm assuming is in reference to the one person that got in so far). Then he stated something along the lines of "we have not forgotten about you" that seems to be a form response to letters of interest that others have gotten.

Anyhoo, it looks like May 15th will be the beginning of any significant movement, after people start withdrawing more actively.

 

[TheFlash]

Dr. Frantz included his phone number on a letter in response to a letter of mine. I called him a few weeks ago and talked with him for a few minutes. He kind of gave me the run around and told me to call back in May when he would have more time to consider second interviews, but he will not consider them now (he's teaching). He also mentioned at that time that only one person had come off the waitlist and it was a "special circumstance" type of thing. Don't expect movement from the waitlist until late May.
Hope that helps anyone considering calling and those in an eternal holding pattern.

Bummer, he didn't give me his phone number in any letters.

 

[traumamonkey]

hmmm...i read the same thing in last year's thread about there being "unusally slow" or "surprisingly little" waitlist movement. do they say this every year?
i hope there are a few people out there holding acceptances who plan on dropping them soon. (hint hint)

i just wonder if there's ever much movement before the 15th...

 

[iris8782]

k, so this is what i got from last year's post...

coffeespoon- posted 4/14/03, got an offer from dr frantz at her second interview, but said she wasn't sure if she'd come, would need to check out 2nd look weekend first. dr frantz said if she was still interested after, she would have a spot waiting for her... not sure what she eventually decided (MAN, wouldn't you love to have that decision to make?)

indiemd- also posted 4/14/03, got an offer at second interview

emotis- posted 4/15/03, got lucky phone call from dr frantz, never had second interview

merlin17- posted 5/27/03, got an offer at second interview

intlmd07- posted 5/30/03, got the phone call, month after second interview

dunno.. there might be more, but that's what i got from skimming through. i'm not sure what it means... like, yeah, it seemed dr frantz was telling people that there were slow/few withdrawals, but 3 sdn'ers got offers pre-may 15 (not to mention all the people who don't post to/read sdn), which seems pretty significant, as compared to our 0 so far.......

i'm just waiting for someone to post all excited that they got in, so i can feel *any* kind of hope

 

[hazelnutruffles]

hey guys,

i got in- i second interviewed on 4/14, and got the phone call on 4/26. columbia is definitely one of my top choices, and i'm relieved that the excruciating wait comes to an end. best of luck to those of you who are still waiting! pm me if you have any questions

k, so this is what i got from last year's post...

coffeespoon- posted 4/14/03, got an offer from dr frantz at her second interview, but said she wasn't sure if she'd come, would need to check out 2nd look weekend first. dr frantz said if she was still interested after, she would have a spot waiting for her... not sure what she eventually decided (MAN, wouldn't you love to have that decision to make?)

indiemd- also posted 4/14/03, got an offer at second interview

emotis- posted 4/15/03, got lucky phone call from dr frantz, never had second interview

merlin17- posted 5/27/03, got an offer at second interview

intlmd07- posted 5/30/03, got the phone call, month after second interview

dunno.. there might be more, but that's what i got from skimming through. i'm not sure what it means... like, yeah, it seemed dr frantz was telling people that there were slow/few withdrawals, but 3 sdn'ers got offers pre-may 15 (not to mention all the people who don't post to/read sdn), which seems pretty significant, as compared to our 0 so far.......

i'm just waiting for someone to post all excited that they got in, so i can feel *any* kind of hope

 

[iris8782]

hey guys,

i got in- i second interviewed on 4/14, and got the phone call on 4/26. columbia is definitely one of my top choices, and i'm relieved that the excruciating wait comes to an end. best of luck to those of you who are still waiting! pm me if you have any questions

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CONGRATULATIONS HAZELNUTRUFFLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh, thankGOD, the waitlist is finally moving!!!!!

 

[mellantro]

wow hazelnut, so the infamous waitlist finally takes an SDNer! congrats dude!

 

[TheFlash]

Sweet! Congrats hazelnut! That's a superquick turnaround between your second interview and acceptance too. Good stuff. What was the extent of your contact with Dr. Frantz, pretty much just the interview?

 

[missbonnie]

congrats hazelnutruffles!

I know of at least 2 other peeps who got in before 4/15, I met them so it's not just a rumor.

So, we're looking at minimum of 3 ppl off the list..I suspect there are a few others...

b

 

[CalBeE]

Congrats hazelnut!

I can't help but feel those who're denied second interview has slim chance of getting in. I know we're supposed to hang in there...but I can't wipe away that feeling, you know?

 

[medstylee]

wow, that's really awesome hazelnut! so, does this mean you're going to withdraw from cleveland clinic now!??? In any case, I'm jk. Best of luck wherever you choose to go.

 

[traumamonkey]

hey guys,

i got in- i second interviewed on 4/14, and got the phone call on 4/26. columbia is definitely one of my top choices, and i'm relieved that the excruciating wait comes to an end. best of luck to those of you who are still waiting! pm me if you have any questions

way to go hazelnut! (or should we call you truffles?)
in any case--congratulations!!

hope to see you there in the fall...if dr. frantz should deem me worthy...

 

[hazelnutruffles]

Sweet! Congrats hazelnut! That's a superquick turnaround between your second interview and acceptance too. Good stuff. What was the extent of your contact with Dr. Frantz, pretty much just the interview?

thanks! i wrote a few letters to dr. frantz (one in january, one in march), spoke to him briefly on the phone to ask a few questions on the waitlist, interviewed, and sent him a thank you note. i just tried to update him with different activities i've been involved in this semester and to reinforce my interest in columbia.

and medstylee, yes, i will withdraw from cclcm tomorrow...it's a great program, the people are nice, but i wish it weren't in cleveland. good luck with that!

 

[JohnnieBlue]

Congrats on getting in Hazlenut!! I'm new to SDN but have been following the board for the last month or so. I'm also waitlisted by Columbia and have sent in a letter and called Dean Frantz. He's keeping me "stongly in mind" so I guess that puts me in the same boat as everyone else. I need to write another letter, but have nothing to tell him...Any suggestions?

 

[IntlMD07]

Hello Everyone,

Just butting in to give my support! I totally understand what everyone is going through, just try not to get too crazy over this, if that is possible
BTW, Coffeespoon went to Harvard and so did Merlin after he got out of their
waitlist a few weeks later.

Congratulations to Hazelnut, I hope you are happy here next year!

To everyone else, good luck! Let me know if you have any more questions.

To those I haven't yet replied, I think the answers to your questions are all posted somewhere on SDN!

Love,
IntlMD

 

[linus]

thanks intlmd07 and congrats hazelnut! i hope i get some good news soon too...

 

[marcusab]

I just (painfully) gave up my spot at Columbia. Hope it helps you guys out!

 

[traumamonkey]

I just (painfully) gave up my spot at Columbia. Hope it helps you guys out!

Thanks marcusab--it certainly does!
wish you the best of luck wherever you're going!

 

[JohnnieBlue]

I spoke to Dean Frantz again today just to check in. I didn't have anything new to tell him, but wanted to let him know I was still interested. Anyway, he says he still can't tell me what my chances are but I will be kept "strongly in mind." He said in 2 or 3 weeks things will start to clear up and he'll have a better picture. I can't take this waiting any longer!! On top of it all, I'm driving myself crazy trying to pick a school to go to just in case Columbia doesn't come through. I wish they could just tell us where we stand, as in top 50 or top 300. Maybe they don't know the differance between the top 20 or so, but at least throw me a bone!

 

[periodic]

Thanks for updating us - I was wondering where everyone went after I obsessively read the Columbia waitlist thread from last year :0

Hello Everyone,

Just butting in to give my support! I totally understand what everyone is going through, just try not to get too crazy over this, if that is possible
BTW, Coffeespoon went to Harvard and so did Merlin after he got out of their
waitlist a few weeks later.

Congratulations to Hazelnut, I hope you are happy here next year!

To everyone else, good luck! Let me know if you have any more questions.

To those I haven't yet replied, I think the answers to your questions are all posted somewhere on SDN!

Love,
IntlMD

 

[traumamonkey]

Thanks for updating us - I was wondering where everyone went after I obsessively read the Columbia waitlist thread from last year :0

I spoke to Dean Frantz again today just to check in. I didn't have anything new to tell him, but wanted to let him know I was still interested. Anyway, he says he still can't tell me what my chances are but I will be kept "strongly in mind." He said in 2 or 3 weeks things will start to clear up and he'll have a better picture. I can't take this waiting any longer!! On top of it all, I'm driving myself crazy trying to pick a school to go to just in case Columbia doesn't come through. I wish they could just tell us where we stand, as in top 50 or top 300. Maybe they don't know the differance between the top 20 or so, but at least throw me a bone!

hey guys, i know this might be of no consolation to you, but i am pretty sure that the thing with the columbia waitlist is that they keep it "fluid"--which means that people come from anywhere on it and it is possible that they don't have it ranked in a normal sense. i would assume that they've got some idea where people stand on it, but the fluidity of it means that you can indeed be accepted even if you're not in the upper echelons of alternates.

keep letting him know you're interested. try not to go insane. i wish you all the best of luck!

 

[medstylee]

Well, tomorrow starts another week. Perhaps/hopefully some of us or at least one of us will hear something positive from the office of the big man himself.

Rock on.

 

[linus]

hey guys, looks like i'm more or less out of luck. i called Dr. Frantz on friday and he said my chances didn't look good. he was really straightforward about it too...

i had a great 2nd interview, but i guess that didn't help much in my case.

anyway, good luck ... i'm goin to pitt!

 

[acab]

hey guys, looks like i'm more or less out of luck. i called Dr. Frantz on friday and he said my chances didn't look good. he was really straightforward about it too...

i had a great 2nd interview, but i guess that didn't help much in my case.

anyway, good luck ... i'm goin to pitt!

Sorry about that Linus. I'm sure you'll do great wherever you go. Pitt is an excellent school.

Now I'm afraid of calling...

 

[CalBeE]

hey guys, looks like i'm more or less out of luck. i called Dr. Frantz on friday and he said my chances didn't look good. he was really straightforward about it too...

i had a great 2nd interview, but i guess that didn't help much in my case.

anyway, good luck ... i'm goin to pitt!

May 15th's not here yet. I wonder if he's saying so because relatively fewer people withdrew by this time, and he's not expecting to accept many people off the waitlist?

 

[iris8782]

hey guys, looks like i'm more or less out of luck. i called Dr. Frantz on friday and he said my chances didn't look good. he was really straightforward about it too...

i had a great 2nd interview, but i guess that didn't help much in my case.

anyway, good luck ... i'm goin to pitt!

he could say something THAT definitive already??? did he say why? had you called him before?

even if it's based on few withdrawals, there's still another week (and if you check out that sdn poll, there're a ton of people still holding onto multiple acceptances). plus, who knows how many people will withdraw from p&s later when they get off waitlists from other schools!

man... this whole stressful process really boggles the mind... but at least, linus, you got some sort of closure, AND pitt is an AWESOME school

 

[linus]

thanks iris and acab

i'm gonna call him one last time after may 15th - i mean, i did put a lot of effort into columbia, so i'd like some sort of explanation from frantz. i was just too disappointed to ask further questions during this phone call.

to be honest, i was pretty surprised by what he said...i was expecting a "we'll keep you in mind" speech. but at least i won't get my hopes up anymore just to be disappointed later.

he did mention that he had made "verbal promises of acceptance" to too many people already. he said very few people had withdrawn and that he expected to make very few acceptances from the waitlist. like you said though, how can he know how many people will withdraw by may 15th? it was just a really weird phone conversation...i don't know if he was in a bad mood or what.

he could say something THAT definitive already??? did he say why? had you called him before?

even if it's based on few withdrawals, there's still another week (and if you check out that sdn poll, there're a ton of people still holding onto multiple acceptances). plus, who knows how many people will withdraw from p&s later when they get off waitlists from other schools!

man... this whole stressful process really boggles the mind... but at least, linus, you got some sort of closure, AND pitt is an AWESOME school

 

[TheFlash]

Aw crud, sorry to hear that linus. But that's awesome that you're very excited about attending Pitt next year! Kudos on your decision. It's a bit disheartening that Dr. Frantz stated that they would be taking very few from the waitlist this year. Ah well, thus is life for all us waitlistees.

Maybe I'll see you at Pitt next year?

 

[medstylee]

hmmm - i dunno if i want to call him tomorrow now... i don't want to know if i have a "vanishingly small chance" or whatever he tells people. i'll probably end up caving and calling anyway though. i haven't spoken to the guy on the phone yet. it shall be an experience, i guess...


by the way, when you want to speak to dr. frantz, can you just ask the secretary to connect you to him? or, do you have to have some concern that the secretary can't attend to?

 

[iris8782]

hmmm - i dunno if i want to call him tomorrow now... i don't want to know if i have a "vanishingly small chance" or whatever he tells people. i'll probably end up caving and calling anyway though. i haven't spoken to the guy on the phone yet. it shall be an experience, i guess...


by the way, when you want to speak to dr. frantz, can you just ask the secretary to connect you to him? or, do you have to have some concern that the secretary can't attend to?

yeah... know what you mean, i was thinking of calling later this week, but feeling very disheartened now....

anyways, i've called once before, and you just tell the secretary you're a waitlistee and can you please talk to dr frantz. then they just ask your name, so they can (i assume) pull up your file for dr frantz to see bc when i called, it took some time for him to come to the phone (and when he did, he seemed to know everything relevant about me). anyways, i don't think it should be a prob getting to talk to him, so GOOD LUCK!!!! and let us know how it goes....

 

[medstylee]

I chickened out today... well, sort of - I also slept too late and now I have class until after the admissions office is closed. Maybe I'll call tomorrow.

 

[iris8782]

well, to all those feeling similarly depressed about their waitlist chances (having not received any such "verbal promises of acceptance" as mentioned to linus)... somebody posted on another thread that they had just turned down dr frantz's offer of acceptance off the waitlist...... so there is still hope for us sdn'ers, yes?

 

[medstylee]

Yes, of course. There's really no point in taking things too literally at the moment. There really is no way Dr. Frantz can know that he will be taking very few people off of the waitlist this year. I mean, isn't this what he says every year? That's what I've gathered from skimming the 2002 and 2003 WL threads. Anyway, there's not way he can know who, among the acceptees, will decide to attend another school over Columbia. I'm sure most people in that scenario are still trying to decide on a few schools.

so, yeah, I was wondering... who's going to take over the reigns from intlmd07 as the unofficial ring leader of this years WL thread?

 

[CalBeE]

well, to all those feeling similarly depressed about their waitlist chances (having not received any such "verbal promises of acceptance" as mentioned to linus)... somebody posted on another thread that they had just turned down dr frantz's offer of acceptance off the waitlist...... so there is still hope for us sdn'ers, yes?

Do you mind posting the link to that post??
I may call P&S office like tomorrow or so

 

[iris8782]

Do you mind posting the link to that post??
I may call P&S office like tomorrow or so

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=117872&page=5 (baya got the lucky phone call on a sunday!)

goodluck talking to dr frantz!!! (and let us know if you hear anything helpful...)

 

[iris8782]

ok, well, i bit the bullet and called dr frantz today-- wanted to make sure he'd received my thesis advisors rec, say columbia's still my #1 choice, ask if there're any doubts about my app he might have that i could try to clear up..... didn't really get much from him, said he has everything he needs, wrote me a letter yesterday, basically just that things are "moving very slowly" (tho perhaps not so much so to be able to offer acceptances to people with awesome, recent 2nd interviews?) and he will keep me "very much in mind"

well, maybe the letter will have something more.... the wait continues

 

[CalBeE]

ok, well, i bit the bullet and called dr frantz today-- wanted to make sure he'd received my thesis advisors rec, say columbia's still my #1 choice, ask if there're any doubts about my app he might have that i could try to clear up..... didn't really get much from him, said he has everything he needs, wrote me a letter yesterday, basically just that things are "moving very slowly" (tho perhaps not so much so to be able to offer acceptances to people with awesome, recent 2nd interviews?) and he will keep me "very much in mind"

well, maybe the letter will have something more.... the wait continues

I also called just a while ago but he was "on the other line", maybe it was you...

And I got to talk to him just now. I basically asked him directly how he felt about my chance of getting in, "Not so good, in the middle, or...??", and he said "Probably in the middle". Now at least that's an honest answer, and it sorta gives me more comfort, even though that probably means I won't have any chance of getting in at all.

And oh crap, I forgot to ask about the coveted second interview. It seems like it's the shortcut to acceptance!

 

[iris8782]

I also called just a while ago but he was "on the other line", maybe it was you...

And I got to talk to him just now. I basically asked him directly how he felt about my chance of getting in, "Not so good, in the middle, or...??", and he said "Probably in the middle". Now at least that's an honest answer, and it sorta gives me more comfort.

wow, i didn't even get that from him. (well, actually, i was kinda too scared to ask about my chances.... figuring that if i was at either extreme he would just let me know) but now i feel mildly encouraged by your "in the middle" response, but it would be way lame for me to call again, huh? ahwell. just have to wait and see

 

[CalBeE]

wow, i didn't even get that from him. (well, actually, i was kinda too scared to ask about my chances.... figuring that if i was at either extreme he would just let me know) but now i feel mildly encouraged by your "in the middle" response, but it would be way lame for me to call again, huh? ahwell. just have to wait and see

It seems like if one's at the lower end, Dr. Frantz will tell you straight out. I think the "in the middle" response (it's using my words, not his, remember?) basically means I'm not in the immediate small list of people he'll consider to admit.

 

[kwanny]

yo, i called him around the same time today, and i think it was you who called him before me, cuz... uh... he mistakenly called me "calbee." hehe...

well, he didn't tell me "in the middle," but he told me that my chances of getting off the waitlist is 50/50, which is a lot better than I had thought originally. = )

 

[medstylee]

huh. that's good to hear guys - sounds pretty optimistic! i didn't get a chance to call today again, grrr. does he tell you your chances whether you want to hear them or not? or, do you have to specifically ask? i don't know if i want to know or not just yet.

 

[JohnnieBlue]

After all of these posts, I feel pretty silly not asking him my chances when I called a few days ago. Now I'm stuck in suspense for quite some time.

When can I call back again and ask? I don't want to sound too pathetic...