d.o's not allowed to rotate at Rush anymore...

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megboo said:
Well, I think it's a given that the pre-DO students and DO med students equate DO with MD.

But here's your pat on the back just in case....:clap:
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Since I can't tell whether you're being condescending, I'll just assume...






...you're not.
 
megboo said:
now that we have that settled, maybe we can move on to the Rush aspect rather than debate about MD vs. DO.
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What are you, the thread mother? If you have a point about Rush, post it.
 
megboo said:
It's apparent SOMEONE has to "mother" you because you don't know how to play nice with others. I would like to see this thread stay open. I posted a couple back - no one has addressed it yet. Feel free.
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Well, it's settled, you are indeed trying to condescend to me. However, I think I'll take the high road and let you have the last word you seem to so desperately want.
 
Northerner said:
Well, it's settled, you are indeed trying to condescend to me. However, I think I'll take the high road and let you have the last word you seem to so desperately want.
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So you're done with this thread? I asked you to comment on a Rush issue, but you insist on being absolutely negative and taking cheap shots at pretty much everyone who disagrees with you in the slightest. You even take cheap shots at people who respond to posts that aren't yours.

Either you're a mod's alter ego, or a mod's pet, because I can't see how you're not banned yet.

At any rate, since you're done posting for the day (I get the last word, remember?), anyone else have comments on the RMS issue here?
 
You've really got to look at the information you get on SDN very closely because you really have no idea who posting here and what their agendas are. If I really cared much about it, I think I'd pick up the phone myself and call Rush-- but only if I really wanted to go there. There are more than enough places I've contacted that want me to rotate at their place, including purely allopathic institutions.

As for the lawsuit thing, I think America is entirely too litigious already. People "feel" wronged these days and the first thing they want to do is "sue the bastards". Who does that really help? My philosophy is if they don't want you there, then go someplace that does want you.
 
At this point, I'm set to start CCOM next fall, so my interests in this thread are a little more vested than some others. I just wish Rush would say why they put that disclaimer up, but then again, you are right scpod, it is a litigious society.
 
it wont just happen overnight but i think more DO students should start persuading and pushing the AOA to start improving the current MD/DO situation, personally i think its more of a major problem with AOA than ACGME....i just feel that allopathic institutions are providing so much more for DO's than actual osteopathic institutions. not only do they allow DO to rotate at their facilities, they allow for DO to take residencies there, even though DO infrastructure is not as large as the allopathic, they could do more on their end, allowing MD to do residencies at DO programs as well as the AOA should be particular now where new DO schools open, and you cant say that DO have been oblivious to this all, i mean DO schools have been around for over a 100 yrs now, what the hell is taking them so long to start restructuring
 
Northerner said:
Enough to do better on the USMLE.

They are, however, equivalent. Saying DO's have additional training over MDs is a slap in the face, and a little silly. Of course MD graduates would be able to learn OMM if they were interested, or if it were a requirement for DO residency.
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Bull, in general the reason that DOs score less on the USMLE (on average) is clearly multifactorial having nothing to do with the quality or content of our curriculum. DO applicants, on average, have lower MCAT scores. Isn't it fair to say that this standardized examination trend simply continued to the next battery of examinations? In addition and I think more importantly, the COMLEX is a considerably DIFFERENT beast than the USMLE. Which do you think that DO students prepare for more extensively?

Since you're such a good sport, I'll give you a hint: It's not the USMLE.

Whether it makes you uncomfortable or not, it matters not. OMM is additional training by definition. You don't learn it. We do.

What do you learn that we don't?

Pharmacology, Biochemistry, Physiology, Genetics, Histology, Radiology, Cell biology, Pathology, early clinical skills, etc? Got 'em... really, tell me what class is in your curriculum that ours lacks... ?

Ultimately, you may find some minor variations from school to school, but inevitably you will find that we cover the same material at DO schools (I can only personally vouch for PCOM, though...) ADD OMM, and you have ADDITIONAL training 😀

Not necessarily superior, but it definitely is additional. It's a sound definitional argument.
 
scpod said:
You've really got to look at the information you get on SDN very closely because you really have no idea who posting here and what their agendas are. If I really cared much about it, I think I'd pick up the phone myself and call Rush-- but only if I really wanted to go there. There are more than enough places I've contacted that want me to rotate at their place, including purely allopathic institutions.

As for the lawsuit thing, I think America is entirely too litigious already. People "feel" wronged these days and the first thing they want to do is "sue the bastards". Who does that really help? My philosophy is if they don't want you there, then go someplace that does want you.
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While I think that your head is on straight with your argument, I simply can't agree.

That's a great way to allow our profession to become marginalized. Sometimes no one is willing to give you what you truly deserve... it is not frivolous to stand up for what you've worked for, regardless of a hostile environment.
 
Northerner just likes to stir the pot in almost every thread:

Its simple Northerner, DO's get extra training in OMM. You cant deny that. It doesnt mean they are better physicians, or more qualified, it just means that they can use OMT if they need to. Thats it. What is so hard about getting over that. You cant seem to get this fact around your head, that you have to convert back to statements about how not many DO's use it...etc. The fact of the matter is, they get the extra-training. I thought this was beyond discussion, but of course with Northerner he just has to start an argument somewhere
 
FIRST AND LAST WARNING. This thread is for the Rush topic. If some of you (I don't really *have* to name you, do I?) want to gripe about DO, MD, PhD, QYX, or whatever initials you want, take it elsewhere. And let me gently (but firmly) remind you to read Lee's sticky at the top of our wonderful forum.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....


Rush and other rotation sites. A couple of years ago Denver was also charging $1000 to DO students to rotate through. I don't know if they still do that. I am glad that CCOM students will continue to rotate through Rush, but we all get told it's "so important to do an audition rotation at the places you want to match to". Doesn't this policy make that a little tough? It will be interesting to see how many DO students they interview for the match next year that aren't from CCOM.
 
ShyRem said:
FIRST AND LAST WARNING. This thread is for the Rush topic. If some of you (I don't really *have* to name you, do I?) want to gripe about DO, MD, PhD, QYX, or whatever initials you want, take it elsewhere. And let me gently (but firmly) remind you to read Lee's sticky at the top of our wonderful forum.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....


Rush and other rotation sites. A couple of years ago Denver was also charging $1000 to DO students to rotate through. I don't know if they still do that. I am glad that CCOM students will continue to rotate through Rush, but we all get told it's "so important to do an audition rotation at the places you want to match to". Doesn't this policy make that a little tough? It will be interesting to see how many DO students they interview for the match next year that aren't from CCOM.
Click to expand...

No kidding!

also, while MSU has a good hospital rotation set, DMU really doesn't, and I would imagine DMU students try to rotate through Chicago hospitals and such.

They're probably not hurting for applicants, regardless of school, but still, it doesn't look like they want to play nice.
 
megboo said:
No kidding!

also, while MSU has a good hospital rotation set, DMU really doesn't, and I would imagine DMU students try to rotate through Chicago hospitals and such.

They're probably not hurting for applicants, regardless of school, but still, it doesn't look like they want to play nice.
Click to expand...

Ut oh. You didn't just do that 🙁 Friggin DMUers are gonna come crash the party now 😡
 
I rotated through the RUSH PM&R department this summer. I was informed before my rotation that I would only be allowed to work in the clinics and not the main hospital. Upon inquiring I was told that the board of trustees had voted to not allow osteopathic students to rotate at RUSH. The possible reason was that because the AOA does not allow MD's to apply to DO residencies. I am not sure if that is the real reason but it is quite bizarre. The restriction applied to CCOM students as well but that might be changing.
I suppose if you really want to rotate at RUSH and want some face time with the attendings then working in the clinics might be worthwhile.
On a separate note Northwestern charges $1000 for DO students to rotate. A way around that is that you can shadow doctors for a few weeks during your vacation and not pay anything.
 
to say that DO's get additional training is not quite accurate. i'm a DO student and recently had a talk with some of our faculty members and department heads about why our curriculum lacks certain "key" courses like genetics, embryology, etc.... while they agree that those classes are important, they also agree that because OMM takes up time (class AND lab), the curriculum simply has no room for a full term course like genetics, etc.
so to say that we learn something extra is not entirely accurate. something has to give because we are stuffed to the max. as far as courses are concern.
this is also why you'd see DO med. students do well in COMLEX and not that great in USMLE because our curriculum is geared towards excelling COMLEX and not USMLE. USMLE has genetics and embryology and alot of reseach-related questions, i.e "more scientific" than COMLEX, which is more clinically-based.
some allo-premeds have the mentality that DO's are inferior to allo's and while i dont want to see this thread turn into a DO vs. MD b.s, i also want to point out the fact that there are many of my classmates that have high MCAT scores/GPA's but some chose osteo. because they like the philosophy and some others because they dont interview well. as far as me, i can tell you that my numbers are "MD-worthy" but because of unfortunate circumstances, i'm in a DO school. the way i see it, i'll be a doctor one day and these are all trivial matters.
as far as the quality of education i'm getting, it's top rated and cant be any better. and because i'm planning on taking the USMLE as well, i'm sacrificing my Christmas break and summer break to study for embryo- and genetics.
my only concern now is with the politics of AOA now for f**king us all up for approving that for-profit only medical school in colorado. now is rush, tomorrow could be harvard, yale, etc., and once those big dogs say no to DO's, all the other allopathic schools will follow. our biggest threat comes from our very OWN representing body, who would have guessed? dont let them fool you.:scared::scared:


ShyRem said:
FIRST AND LAST WARNING. This thread is for the Rush topic. If some of you (I don't really *have* to name you, do I?) want to gripe about DO, MD, PhD, QYX, or whatever initials you want, take it elsewhere. And let me gently (but firmly) remind you to read Lee's sticky at the top of our wonderful forum.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....


Rush and other rotation sites. A couple of years ago Denver was also charging $1000 to DO students to rotate through. I don't know if they still do that. I am glad that CCOM students will continue to rotate through Rush, but we all get told it's "so important to do an audition rotation at the places you want to match to". Doesn't this policy make that a little tough? It will be interesting to see how many DO students they interview for the match next year that aren't from CCOM.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks to litigation hospitals that in the past [abt 2-3] discriminated against DO rotating students, now gladly accept us.

Thanks to litigation DOs who were discriminated at hospitals now enjoy being able to practice.

Thanks to litigation states that did not recognize DOs as full physicians now do.

Litigitation has accomplished some great things for DOs in general 👍
 
St. Pius-

From what I have heard Genetics is not seen in large amounts at all on step 1. So I wouldnt knock myself out over it. While I agree that something has to give I am sure if you buy some USMLE videos, or take a kaplan class you will be fine. I also have a hard time believing that the USMLE tests material that isn't covered at the school you go to.

Apparently the information on the USMLE is "high yield" material- not material that is so in depth that you wont be getting it because you were in OMM lab instead of lecture.

Only time will tell though- good luck on Step 1.
 
I don't know what your curriculum is, but at PCOM we've already had embryology/development and we are currently doing genetics (DNA, transcription, translation, etc) as part of our integrated curriculum. As I've tried to make abundantly clear, not all DO programs are created equal.

Again, I challenge you to find something that MD programs offer that PCOM doesn't... AND we do OMM every week 😀

st. pius v said:
to say that DO's get additional training is not quite accurate. i'm a DO student and recently had a talk with some of our faculty members and department heads about why our curriculum lacks certain "key" courses like genetics, embryology, etc.... while they agree that those classes are important, they also agree that because OMM takes up time (class AND lab), the curriculum simply has no room for a full term course like genetics, etc.
so to say that we learn something extra is not entirely accurate. something has to give because we are stuffed to the max. as far as courses are concern.
this is also why you'd see DO med. students do well in COMLEX and not that great in USMLE because our curriculum is geared towards excelling COMLEX and not USMLE. USMLE has genetics and embryology and alot of reseach-related questions, i.e "more scientific" than COMLEX, which is more clinically-based.
some allo-premeds have the mentality that DO's are inferior to allo's and while i dont want to see this thread turn into a DO vs. MD b.s, i also want to point out the fact that there are many of my classmates that have high MCAT scores/GPA's but some chose osteo. because they like the philosophy and some others because they dont interview well. as far as me, i can tell you that my numbers are "MD-worthy" but because of unfortunate circumstances, i'm in a DO school. the way i see it, i'll be a doctor one day and these are all trivial matters.
as far as the quality of education i'm getting, it's top rated and cant be any better. and because i'm planning on taking the USMLE as well, i'm sacrificing my Christmas break and summer break to study for embryo- and genetics.
my only concern now is with the politics of AOA now for f**king us all up for approving that for-profit only medical school in colorado. now is rush, tomorrow could be harvard, yale, etc., and once those big dogs say no to DO's, all the other allopathic schools will follow. our biggest threat comes from our very OWN representing body, who would have guessed? dont let them fool you.:scared::scared:
Click to expand...
 
MaximusD said:
I don't know what your curriculum is, but at PCOM we've already had embryology/development and we are currently doing genetics (DNA, transcription, translation, etc) as part of our integrated curriculum. As I've tried to make abundantly clear, not all DO programs are created equal.

Again, I challenge you to find something that MD programs offer that PCOM doesn't... AND we do OMM every week 😀
Click to expand...

I also wanted to add that at DMU we have embryo and genetics. We do embryo along side anatomy for each system, and genetics was in the biochem/molecular bio session.
 
Nice to know that Rush has decided they would prefer having sh** allopathic medical students (read lower board scores) over stronger osteopathic ones.

If they're having too many candidates, then they should be using a board cutoff system... not this.

Its discrimination, end-of-story. Screw Rush. Who needs 'em.
 
i'm not disagreeing with you, however, seeing that you are a pre-med, i have a word of caution- dont be surprise that you find something in the med- school that you will be going that has some major discrepancy.
also, i'm not putting down my curriculum- i was trying to make a point that we are taught to pass and do well in COMLEX and not USMLE since we have to sit for the COMLEX and USMLE is just an option.
you are correct to say that genetics have been somewhat "light" recently but still more prevalent than what we are taught. we have "integrated" genetics and embryology but the amount of materials covered are barely scratching the surface of the core of those subjects.
i'm glad we are getting quite an in-depth course on molecular biology and neuroscience because USMLE is migrating towards that way.
anyway, i dont want to take away the focus of my original intention- is to raise awareness among the DO community and DO medical students about the dirty politics of AOA. i'm not entirely sure but i'd bet my dollars the reason why rush is pulling the rug under DO's has to do with all these uncontrolled DO expansions (schools and increasing the amount of seats) and the advent of the for-profit school.

sexyman said:
St. Pius-

From what I have heard Genetics is not seen in large amounts at all on step 1. So I wouldnt knock myself out over it. While I agree that something has to give I am sure if you buy some USMLE videos, or take a kaplan class you will be fine. I also have a hard time believing that the USMLE tests material that isn't covered at the school you go to.

Apparently the information on the USMLE is "high yield" material- not material that is so in depth that you wont be getting it because you were in OMM lab instead of lecture.

Only time will tell though- good luck on Step 1.
Click to expand...
 
st. pius v said:
...
anyway, i dont want to take away the focus of my original intention- is to raise awareness among the DO community and DO medical students about the dirty politics of AOA. ...
Click to expand...

If that is your intention then please do so in another thread. If you highjack someone else's thread to promote your own agenda, you will not be looked on very highly.
 
do i hear a dick-doctor coming out of the pipeline? you need to read my postings closely- i mentioned that the actions of AOA might be the reason why rush is pulling the plugs on DO....
i'm not promoting any agenda here- if you want a good future as a DO, you need to know some of this stuff going on around you. i bet you havent heard of medicare and medicaid, have you?
how the hell did you get into med. school? oh wait.... it's LECOM-Bradenton, nevermind....👎

scpod said:
If that is your intention then please do so in another thread. If you highjack someone else's thread to promote your own agenda, you will not be looked on very highly.
Click to expand...
 
I think SCPOD is about to unleash... read his (St. Pius') old posts. Enough said.
 
gasapple said:
It's plain cursed - or just cursed with ignorance. You got me.
Click to expand...

It certainly seems to bring out the worst in people, but then again, what do I know? I am a mere pre-med.

Time for some sleep. Adios.
 
9xophe.jpg
 
i get irritated by people who doesnt read the whole context and instead takes bits and pieces out of it and cook up another whole different set of story, in this case....accusation 😴
about rush....

Old Grunt said:
It certainly seems to bring out the worst in people, but then again, what do I know? I am a mere pre-med.

Time for some sleep. Adios.
Click to expand...
 
st. pius v said:
do i hear a dick-doctor coming out of the pipeline? you need to read my postings closely- i mentioned that the actions of AOA might be the reason why rush is pulling the plugs on DO....
i'm not promoting any agenda here- if you want a good future as a DO, you need to know some of this stuff going on around you. i bet you havent heard of medicare and medicaid, have you?
how the hell did you get into med. school? oh wait.... it's LECOM-Bradenton, nevermind....👎
Click to expand...

Someone get this guy a tin-foil helmet ... the AOA is trying to read his thoughts.:laugh:

I'm just kidding man ... I think everyone is aware that the AOA has pulled some questionable moves in the past year. However, I think they will be adjusted ... and I don't think this thing with Rush has anything to do with the AOA, otherwise they wouldn't let CCOM students rotate, that doesn't quite send the anti-DO message, up yours AOA, they would be searching for. Just my two cents ...
 
st. pius v said:
i get irritated by people who doesnt read the whole context and instead takes bits and pieces out of it and cook up another whole different set of story, in this case....accusation 😴
about rush....
Click to expand...

You know what's really annoying?

Med students popping up on a PRE-MED forum and chiding the posters for being PRE-MEDs.
 
Old Grunt said:
You know what's really annoying?

Med students popping up on a PRE-MED forum and chiding the posters for being PRE-MEDs.
Click to expand...

How was he chiding posters for being pre-med? This is his quote:

i'm not disagreeing with you, however, seeing that you are a pre-med, i have a word of caution- dont be surprise that you find something in the med- school that you will be going that has some major discrepancy.
Click to expand...

Looks like he's just giving advice to me.
 
you know what's more annoying? pre-meds that dont know that medical students are UPPERCLASSMEN and are actually IN medical school. we come into this forum to raise awareness and give our input to any of you babies out there that needs some milk and a slap on the face....:laugh::laugh:
for the rest of pre-meds who got in and actually appreciate the fact that you are going to be doctors one day.... congrats and take courage, the road is hard and long but it's worth it.

Old Grunt said:
You know what's really annoying?

Med students popping up on a PRE-MED forum and chiding the posters for being PRE-MEDs.
Click to expand...
 
jp104 said:
How was he chiding posters for being pre-med? This is his quote:



Looks like he's just giving advice to me.
Click to expand...

I was actually speaking more to a whole cultural phenomenum on the pre-med forums in which certain Med Student posters come on here and treat pre-meds like the dregs and act with an air of superiority.

I really appreciate the Med Students who take the time to come on here and share their insight in a non-condescending manner.

Though I quoted Pius, I wasn't necessarily speaking about him, though he has been pretty abrasive on this thread, it's generally been to other Med Students. I understand that it would be confusing since I quoted him. I suppose it's a "if the shoe fits" thing.

st. pius v said:
you know what's more annoying? pre-meds that dont know that medical students are UPPERCLASSMEN and are actually IN medical school. we come into this forum to raise awareness and give our input to any of you babies out there....:laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...

I am 29 and I've seen more things in combat then I care to relate on an internet forum. Suffice to say, I'd put the amount and severity of trauma from gunshot wounds and explosions that I've seen up against yours as a upperclass med student.

I may be many things, but a baby is not one of them.
 
Old Grunt said:
I really appreciate the Med Students who take the time to come on here and share their insight in a non-condescending manner.

I may be many things, but a baby is not one of them.
Click to expand...

👍

I concur that the belittling and condescending attitudes of some "upperclassmen" (is this high school or professional school?) is unbelievable in this forum. I'd venture to say that those med students that come here to advise in a constructive manner have solid self-esteems and are significantly more mature. No need to fuel any superiority complex by belittling others in this forum. I think it's a question of maturity and not what the MS-1 or MS-2 "experience" provides.

I've seen too many come here and float the "I'm a med student and your not so your perspective is worthless" and the "do not contradict those in this forum because they are superior" - unnecessary attitudes, IMHO. May I remind everyone that this is an anonymous forum and everyone is free to share their individual points of view even if contradictory. The condescending behavior is truly pathetic and shows a real lack of character and a low self-esteem.

A number of us are non-trad and have had other adventures and careers and don't need this insecure BS that's thrown in excess. I, for one, just like the straight advice that's left for the taking without all the condescending displays (see posts from Spicedmanna, BTH7, or ShyRem to name a few). Some people remember where they were not so very long ago.

Carry on.
 
st. pius v said:
you know what's more annoying? pre-meds that dont know that medical students are UPPERCLASSMEN and are actually IN medical school. we come into this forum to raise awareness and give our input to any of you babies out there that needs some milk and a slap on the face....:laugh::laugh:
for the rest of pre-meds who got in and actually appreciate the fact that you are going to be doctors one day.... congrats and take courage, the road is hard and long but it's worth it.
Click to expand...

crying_baby.jpg
 
scpod said:
You've really got to look at the information you get on SDN very closely because you really have no idea who posting here and what their agendas are. If I really cared much about it, I think I'd pick up the phone myself and call Rush-- but only if I really wanted to go there. There are more than enough places I've contacted that want me to rotate at their place, including purely allopathic institutions.
Click to expand...

Greatness. 👍
 
megboo said:
I like your Highwaymen sig.
Click to expand...

Highwaymen????????????????????????????????

Surely you wouldn't credit the Highwaymen for one of the great Robert Earl Keen's songs?

;-)

In all seriousness, it sums up the process pretty well I think.
 
Old Grunt said:
Highwaymen????????????????????????????????

Surely you wouldn't credit the Highwaymen for one of the great Robert Earl Keen's songs?

;-)

In all seriousness, it sums up the process pretty well I think.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, I was listening to some Johnny Cash as well as Higwaymen tunes the other day and that song struck me that same. Coincidence be damned!

Also, I agree with gasapple about the non-trad point.

And, I am sick of having to defend myself because I don't automatically jump on the "OMG! It's the end of the world!" bandwagon. Perhaps it's the experience in me that tells me to wait and see what becomes of this situation before exploding and automatically spouting the us vs. them mentality and demand litigation.
 
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