Dermatology really out of reach for DO?

[MedPR]

I'm not sure this is accurate.... that is what was on the table which is what prompted the new resolution in which the ACGME will absorb the AOA programs and give the AOA a seat at the table in determining how they are governed, but I am not aware that any fellowships were currently closed to DOs who had not taken an ACGME intern year.



By 2015 (estimated per their press releases) this will not be an issue at any rate as all AOA programs will be accredited by the ACGME.

I meant that there are PDs who won't take DOs. Not that there's an actual rule.

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[SpecterGT260]

I meant that there are PDs who won't take DOs. Not that there's an actual rule.

gotcha

 

[DrBumblebee]

I meant that there are PDs who won't take DOs. Not that there's an actual rule.

How much do you happen to know about the residency process and its mechanics, let alone to know if there'd be any PDs that might discriminate any DO that have adequate scores after all of the residency programs have been united under ACGME umbrella come 2015? Who are you? What's your mission on SDN?

 

[MedPR]

How much do you happen to know about the residency process and its mechanics, let alone to know if there'd be any PDs that might discriminate any DO that have adequate scores after all of the residency programs have been united under ACGME umbrella come 2015? Who are you? What's your mission on SDN?

Lol. You're right, the merger will change everyone's mind and destroy all bias.

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[pre med 2014]

How much do you happen to know about the residency process and its mechanics, let alone to know if there'd be any PDs that might discriminate any DO that have adequate scores after all of the residency programs have been united under ACGME umbrella come 2015? Who are you? What's your mission on SDN?

I have a feeling nothing will change after the merger. I guess ACGME will have to accept COMPLEX and DO residencies will have too accept USMLE. But the thing is most md programs already accept complex. So it's like, bias will still be there.

In theory it would make sense for all DOs to just take USMLE and apply to both residencies but who knows if DO programs will discriminate against DO with USMLE scores only?

 

[NeuroLAX]

i have a feeling nothing will change after the merger. I guess acgme will have to accept complex and do residencies will have too accept usmle. But the thing is most md programs already accept complex. So it's like, bias will still be there.

In theory it would make sense for all dos to just take usmle and apply to both residencies but who knows if do programs will discriminate against do with usmle scores only?

comlex. comlex. comlex.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I have a feeling nothing will change after the merger. I guess ACGME will have to accept COMPLEX and DO residencies will have too accept USMLE. But the thing is most md programs already accept complex. So it's like, bias will still be there.

In theory it would make sense for all DOs to just take USMLE and apply to both residencies but who knows if DO programs will discriminate against DO with USMLE scores only?

This. Except its "comlex" and DO's must take the COMLEX...no choice.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

 

[SpecterGT260]

comlex. comlex. comlex.

but the test... its... its kinda complex.... isnt it?

 

[NeuroLAX]

.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Lol. You're right, the merger will change everyone's mind and destroy all bias.

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But it work with the American presidency. Racism doesn't exist ever since Obama.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Lol. You're right, the merger will change everyone's mind and destroy all bias.

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I've no doubt that things would change in a positive way. Don't get me wrong but you're a tad bit of a cynical person.

I don't know the reason behind, but you've been consistently sounding in hundreds of your posts in countless threads on SDN like that you embraced your URM status just to gain passage to the "glorious" MD world territory, but unfortunately like that didn't understand the meaning behind why this favor was done to you.. It was because US should embrace the diversity especially in public service, such as medicine.

There've been many turning points in modern US history. Likewise, I see this MD & DO unification process as a goodwill as well as a must that come from both sides for getting to something better for the patients; this is something like the civil rights movement in the US.

As the physicians, we should embrace all practically available methods to heal the patients without risking their lives. So, cleanse your pre-med hatred (or whatever you have in your blood), and wait and see the change.

It stands too controversial to convert 320,000 foreign med school graduates into MD but to exclude the DOs from the pack... Thus, I don't agree with you in that any PD would discriminate any DO that has sufficient scores from COMLEX or USMLE, come 2015.

 

[MedPR]

But it work with the American presidency. Racism doesn't exist ever since Obama.

I've no doubt that things would change in a positive way. Don't get me wrong but you're a tad bit of a cynical person.

I don't know the reason behind, but you've been consistently sounding in hundreds of your posts in countless threads on SDN like that you embraced your URM status just to gain passage to the "glorious" MD world territory, but unfortunately like that didn't understand the meaning behind why this favor was done to you.. It was because US should embrace the diversity especially in public service, such as medicine.

There've been many turning points in modern US history. Likewise, I see this MD & DO unification process as a goodwill as well as a must that come from both sides for getting to something better for the patients; this is something like the civil rights movement in the US.

As the physicians, we should embrace all practically available methods to heal the patients without risking their lives. So, cleanse your pre-med hatred (or whatever you have in your blood), and wait and see the change.

It stands too controversial to convert 320,000 foreign med school graduates into MD but to exclude the DOs from the pack... Thus, I don't agree with you in that any PD would discriminate any DO that has sufficient scores from COMLEX or USMLE, come 2015.

I didn't embrace my URM status just to get into MD school. I'm not even sure why you would say that.

It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. The reality is that a few pieces of paper don't change people's opinions and don't make biases disappear. I get that you're hopeful, because you don't want to be discriminated against as a DO, but that doesn't make it reality. You'll be a DO, and some ACGME PDs will ignore your application because of it. That's just the way it is. Every DO student on this forum recognizes that, and all the other pre-meds heading to DO schools recognize it too.

Did racism/sexism go away following civil rights movements and new legislation? No. How many years has it been since then?

 

[sylvanthus]

How much do you happen to know about the residency process and its mechanics, let alone to know if there'd be any PDs that might discriminate any DO that have adequate scores after all of the residency programs have been united under ACGME umbrella come 2015? Who are you? What's your mission on SDN?

Take a look at the NRMP Programs Directors survey sometime. EM is largely considered "DO friendly" yet 1/3 of program directors wont consider a DO. Regardless of board scores.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I didn't embrace my URM status just to get into MD school. I'm not even sure why you would say that.

It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. The reality is that a few pieces of paper don't change people's opinions and don't make biases disappear. I get that you're hopeful, because you don't want to be discriminated against as a DO, but that doesn't make it reality. You'll be a DO, and some ACGME PDs will ignore your application because of it. That's just the way it is. Every DO student on this forum recognizes that, and all the other pre-meds heading to DO schools recognize it too.

Did racism/sexism go away following civil rights movements and new legislation? No. How many years has it been since then?

I didnt even realize you were URM

and yes to the bold part. I dont understand why this is so difficult for some people

 

[MedPR]

I didnt even realize you were URM

and yes to the bold part. I dont understand why this is so difficult for some people

I'm not really a URM. I just marked the box on AMCAS so that I could get into the glorious MD world. It's not like they make you prove you aren't asian/caucasian.




































notsrs.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I'm not really a URM. I just marked the box on AMCAS so that I could get into the glorious MD world. It's not like they make you prove you aren't asian/caucasian.


notsrs.

Yeah same here. they didn't believe that I am asian/american either because I'm 6'2" and have light brown hair. But then I pulled out my own personal set of hand carved and engraved chopsticks to eat pizza with and just looked at them like "yeah... that's right. Don't doubt me again mofo".

 

[SpecterGT260]

Take a look at the NRMP Programs Directors survey sometime. EM is largely considered "DO friendly" yet 1/3 of program directors wont consider a DO. Regardless of board scores.

I think it would be hard to garner that information from the PD survey. You could easily say that 1/3 factor in being an MD vs DO in their decision, but listing it as they do on the survey doesn't really convey that they are closed to DOs. Unless there is a page I missed in there.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Yeah same here. they didn't believe that I am asian/american either because I'm 6'2" and have light brown hair. But then I pulled out my own personal set of hand carved and engraved chopsticks to eat pizza with and just looked at them like "yeah... that's right. Don't doubt me again mofo".

Sometimes I wonder if I could have marked URM on the AMCAS. But after reading their definition I didn't think I could since I have never lived in a socioeconomically or medically disadvantaged area.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Take a look at the NRMP Programs Directors survey sometime. EM is largely considered "DO friendly" yet 1/3 of program directors wont consider a DO. Regardless of board scores.

You might be talking about some of the past/current experiences. Further, I don't know anything about your school, or its good/bad reputation among the PDs in the arena, either. So, maybe the experiences that you gained up until now might differ, either.

But, I'm talking about the time after the merger has happened in 2015. If the discrimination against DOs will continue, why in the whole world did they want to unite with the AOA under ACGME and share some of their seats and votes with them around the same table?

Why are you so cynical?

 

[MedPR]

You might be talking about some of the past/current experiences. Further, I don't know anything about your school, or its good/bad reputation among the PDs in the arena, either. So, maybe the experiences that you gained up until now might differ, either.

But, I'm talking about the time after the merger has happened in 2015. If the discrimination against DOs will continue, why in the whole world did they want to unite with the AOA under ACGME and share some of their seats and votes with them around the same table?

Why are you so cynical?

Why in the world would white people let black people sit in the front of the bus if they were going to keep hating on them just for being black?

 

[sylvanthus]

I think it would be hard to garner that information from the PD survey. You could easily say that 1/3 factor in being an MD vs DO in their decision, but listing it as they do on the survey doesn't really convey that they are closed to DOs. Unless there is a page I missed in there.

One of the questions in the survey specifically asked if PDs interviewed DOs. Look again.

 

[sylvanthus]

You might be talking about some of the past/current experiences. Further, I don't know anything about your school, or its good/bad reputation among the PDs in the arena, either. So, maybe the experiences that you gained up until now might differ, either.

But, I'm talking about the time after the merger has happened in 2015. If the discrimination against DOs will continue, why in the whole world did they want to unite with the AOA under ACGME and share some of their seats and votes with them around the same table?

Why are you so cynical?

Why are you so naive? Get into med school and go through part of this process and then talk to me.

 

[SpecterGT260]

One of the questions in the survey specifically asked if PDs interviewed DOs. Look again.

I missed that. Page number?

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[DrBumblebee]

Why in the world would white people let black people sit in the front of the bus if they were going to keep hating on them just for being black?

I don't understand what you're talking about..

 

[DrBumblebee]

Why are you so naive? Get into med school and go through part of this process and then talk to me.

I cannot get what your expectations were from med school or residency. Sorry if you've been ground in the process. Not everybody is cut for medicine. Take it easy.

 

[MedPR]

I don't understand what you're talking about..

You're saying "why would ACGME merge with AOA if they are going to keep hating on DOs?"

I'm saying that a few rule changes doesn't change opinions or bias.

 

[MedPR]

I cannot get what your expectations were from med school or residency. Sorry if you've been ground in the process. Not everybody is cut for medicine. Take it easy.

lol what.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Good ole fashion brawl in pre-osteo...who would have******* thought. Lol

 

[DrBumblebee]

You're saying "why would ACGME merge with AOA if they are going to keep hating on DOs?"

I'm saying that a few rule changes doesn't change opinions or bias.

I think you're high.. again.

You told this:

Why in the world would white people let black people sit in the front of the bus if they were going to keep hating on them just for being black?

and, I said I didn't understand what you were talking about.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Good ole fashion brawl in pre-osteo...who would have******* thought. Lol

This medpr (what does it mean, anyway?) has some real hatred problems against DOs although he's been declaring that he's been accepted to med school, which I don't believe any more. I suspect this guy (if s/he is one real person, anyway) has been a pre-med or one who was rejected by US-MD and US-DO schools, so has that many posts trolling all over the SDN. There's no other good explanation about this attitude.

Having more than 16 thousand of posts, this medpr username cannot be owned by just one person; I suspect there must be a group of people behind this username writing in shifts. A simple MAC address search over the posts this username has made can easily reveal the truth. What a life, though.

 

[SpecterGT260]

This medpr (what does it mean, anyway?) has some real hatred problems against DOs although he's been declaring that he's been accepted to med school, which I don't believe any more. I suspect this guy (if s/he is one real person, anyway) has been a pre-med or one who was rejected by US-MD and US-DO schools, so has that many posts trolling all over the SDN. There's no other good explanation about this attitude.

Having more than 16 thousand of posts, this medpr username cannot be owned by just one person; I suspect there must be a group of people behind this username writing in shifts. A simple MAC address search over the posts this username has made can easily reveal the truth. What a life, though.

yeah, you guys seem to think this of anyone who doesnt go around hanging flyers stating that DOs are the best thing that ever happened ever ever . It is a theme around here.

 

[MedPR]

I think you're high.. again.

You told this:



and, I said I didn't understand what you were talking about.

It's an analogy. To simplify, racism (a form of discrimination) did not go away after minorities were given equal rights. In the same way, anti-DO bias will not go away even after the merger.

This medpr (what does it mean, anyway?) has some real hatred problems against DOs although he's been declaring that he's been accepted to med school, which I don't believe any more. I suspect this guy (if s/he is one real person, anyway) has been a pre-med or one who was rejected by US-MD and US-DO schools, so has that many posts trolling all over the SDN. There's no other good explanation about this attitude.

Having more than 16 thousand of posts, this medpr username cannot be owned by just one person; I suspect there must be a group of people behind this username writing in shifts. A simple MAC address search over the posts this username has made can easily reveal the truth. What a life, though.

Multiple MAC addresses only shows that I've used multiple machines/devices to post.

 

[SpecterGT260]

It's an analogy. To simplify, racism (a form of discrimination) did not go away after minorities were given equal rights. In the same way, anti-DO bias will not go away even after the merger.




Multiple MAC addresses only shows that I've used multiple machines/devices to post.

Yeah.... I thought it was obvious. But he routinely struggles with these things

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[Mr Kenobi]

DOs are the best thing that ever happened ever ever.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You want me to hook you up w a job at fox? Nicely done

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[DrBumblebee]

It's an analogy. To simplify, racism (a form of discrimination) did not go away after minorities were given equal rights. In the same way, anti-DO bias will not go away even after the merger.

What a great analogy you've provided us here... Honestly, I cannot take this sh.t any more.

Let me give you an analogy of the same taste before leaving you and your teammates posting under medpr username in this thread all alone with your weird complexes/mission to destroy all DOs in the world.

To the OP - you can get whatever specialty with a DO degree. Come 2015, all AOA residency programs would also be accredited by ACGME, which means you'd be safer than ever. What else do you want, a golden key to the heaven?

I'm out'a here. G'night all.

 

[SpecterGT260]

What a great analogy you've provided us here... Honestly, I cannot take this sh.t any more.

Let me give you an analogy of the same taste before leaving you and your teammates posting under medpr username in this thread all alone with your weird complexes/mission to destroy all DOs in the world.

To the OP - you can get whatever specialty with a DO degree. Come 2015, all AOA residency programs would also be accredited by ACGME, which means you'd be safer than ever. What else do you want, a golden key to the heaven?

I'm out'a here. G'night all.

Are you drunk? I hope you're drunk

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[MedPR]

What a great analogy you've provided us here... Honestly, I cannot take this sh.t any more.

Let me give you an analogy of the same taste before leaving you and your teammates posting under medpr username in this thread all alone with your weird complexes/mission to destroy all DOs in the world.

To the OP - you can get whatever specialty with a DO degree. Come 2015, all AOA residency programs would also be accredited by ACGME, which means you'd be safer than ever. What else do you want, a golden key to the heaven?

I'm out'a here. G'night all.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[113]

... Thus, I don't agree with you in that any PD would discriminate any DO that has sufficient scores from COMLEX or USMLE, come 2015.

Lol. I applaud your idealistic optimism, but things won't really change. If you think PDs at top residencies are going to suddenly get all hot and wet for DOs come 2015, you're gonna be really disappointed. And while top residencies may say the comlex is "accepted," there's a good chance your app will be circular filed without a usmle.

Good luck with your ACGME ophtho/rads/ortho/neurosurg/vascsurg/derm/ent/plastics/urology goals of 2015. Be sure to let us know where you end up.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[113]

What a great analogy you've provided us here... Honestly, I cannot take this sh.t any more.

Let me give you an analogy of the same taste before leaving you and your teammates posting under medpr username in this thread all alone with your weird complexes/mission to destroy all DOs in the world.

To the OP - you can get whatever specialty with a DO degree. Come 2015, all AOA residency programs would also be accredited by ACGME, which means you'd be safer than ever. What else do you want, a golden key to the heaven?

I'm out'a here. G'night all.

U wot m8?

Strong insanity post... A+++++ pm me your weed supplier.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[MedPR]

U wot m8?

Strong insanity post... A+++++ pm me your weed supplier.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Either bb has recently begun to spread on SDN or I'm only now able to identify it. Either way, it makes me laugh.

 

[gbilla]

So I looked up the 2012 NRMP Program Director survey and under the all specialties section I think I found where you got the 1/3 of PDs not interviewing osteopathic students figure, but it looks closer to 1/4 to me. I'm seeing 73% consider and interview osteopathic students vs. 98% for U.S. Seniors. So a 25% difference between those two groups so while not quite as bad as a third, the bias is still there.

I tried looking at older surveys too to see if that gap was narrowing, but as far as I can tell 2012 was the first year they asked that question.

 

[cliquesh]

So I looked up the 2012 NRMP Program Director survey and under the all specialties section I think I found where you got the 1/3 of PDs not interviewing osteopathic students figure, but it looks closer to 1/4 to me. I'm seeing 73% consider and interview osteopathic students vs. 98% for U.S. Seniors. So a 25% difference between those two groups so while not quite as bad as a third, the bias is still there.

I tried looking at older surveys too to see if that gap was narrowing, but as far as I can tell 2012 was the first year they asked that question.

It's really just specialty specific. You're not going to match Acgme orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, derm, rad onc coming for a DO school. Optho is also unlikely, but not nearly as impossible.

Radiology and general surgery will take DOs, but mostly at community programs or smaller university programs.

Then every other field ( IM, peds, Ob/gyn, path, anesthesia, etc.) are pretty open to DOs and most state universities will interview DOs for these type of residencies. Some good private programs will interview DOs for these residencies. Few top 10 programs will interview DOs for any residency.

 

[DrBumblebee]

It's really just specialty specific. You're not going to match Acgme orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, derm, rad onc coming for a DO school. Optho is also unlikely, but not nearly as impossible.

Radiology and general surgery will take DOs, but mostly at community programs or smaller university programs.

Then every other field ( IM, peds, Ob/gyn, path, anesthesia, etc.) are pretty open to DOs and most state universities will interview DOs for these type of residencies. Some good private programs will interview DOs for these residencies. Few top 10 programs will interview DOs for any residency.

There're many orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, derm, etc. AOA spots open for DOs only, which would be ACGME come 2015. Besides, I've seen many DOs in ACGME programs even before the merger.

 

[as1212559]

This thread.

 

[MedPR]

There're many orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, derm, etc. AOA spots open for DOs only, which would be ACGME come 2015. Besides, I've seen many DOs in ACGME programs even before the merger.

They won't become ACGME. They'll still be AOA.

Yes, many DOs in ACGME programs, but not ROAD, ortho, urology, ENT, neurosurg, etc.

 

[cliquesh]

There're many orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, derm, etc. AOA spots open for DOs only, which would be ACGME come 2015. Besides, I've seen many DOs in ACGME programs even before the merger.

Theere are 93 AOA ortho spots per year, maybe 40 derm, 20 ENT, 20 urology, and 12 neurosurgery. There were 4600 DO graduates last year.

 

[DrBumblebee]

They won't become ACGME. They'll still be AOA.

Yes, many DOs in ACGME programs, but not ROAD, ortho, urology, ENT, neurosurg, etc.

This might be news to you, but thing's been changing while others using the MedPR username on their shift. Read from this link to catch up a little bit:

FAQs - ACGME Unified Accreditation System

 

[gyngyn]

Theere are 93 AOA ortho spots per year, maybe 40 derm, 20 ENT, 20 urology, and 12 neurosurgery. There were 4600 DO graduates last year.

And now the ACGME is going to decide if they go on probation or reduce their number of residents.