Discrimination against DOs?

[DrBumblebee]

And there are people at DO schools with <3.4 GPAs (even schools with averages below this) who are carried in with their MCATs. MD schools look at the whole applicant at least as much as DO schools do, if not more (see what I did there? ). Averages are lower for both stats so, while they are climbing, your assessment is simply factually incorrect

The rest of the stuff about 'more personable" and "down to earth" is just ridiculous. I understand the impulse to say and spread such things but it just really isnt true. I have attended several interviews at both MD and DO schools as well as having attended an MD school.... I gotta tell you, I didnt see anything at the DO interviews that I didnt see at MD schools (except maybe people who were more recently drawn to medicine and therefore more scattered ECs) and I cant imagine how it is humanly possible to be more personable, caring, down to earth, or whatever than the vast majority of my classmates. Pre-meds are pre-meds. PERIOD. It is stats, and to a degree family/social situations and personal preferences that makes an MD or DO, not personalities. Luckily if you do get into a medical school of any kind these thoughts simply wont survive through to residency, which is why you only see pre-meds, who honestly know bunk about the who/what/how/why of physicians, are the only ones who say this.

You're the one telling that DO schools accept lower scores. And, I'm telling you about MD students with 2.90-3.3 GPAs... oh, hello?

Regarding to the down-to-earth persoanlity, well, at least it's clear here at SDN with your abrasive personality.

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[BabyDoc86]

There is going to be vast variability in personality no matter which school or specialty you go into.

 

[MedPR]

You're the one telling that DO schools accept lower scores. And, I'm telling you about MD students with 2.90-3.3 GPAs... oh, hello?

Regarding to the down-to-earth persoanlity, well, at least it's clear here at SDN with your abrasive personality.

Those MD students you speak of are exceptions. MD medians are 3.7/32. DO median is around 3.5/26.

 

[DrBumblebee]

DOs do take people with lower stats. And by saying DOs attract more personable applicants, you're essentially saying that people who worked harder in college are less personable than people who didn't maintain high GPAs or get solid MCAT scores. Does not compute.

Gotta learn to read it in context... here what I said:

I've many friends having GPAs around 2.90-3.30, with a 29-31 MCAT, who are now in MD schools. I wonder if someone is that low in the GPA, how come to think about that person would be a competent student at your MD school?

This only means that MD schools are more MCAT-ophyls, that if you have a >31 MCAT then you're a shoe-in to an MD school. This isn't always true with DO schools (go check DO threads, many having >31 haven't received even an interview from most of the DO schools.) I'm not bragging about anything, though. All I wanna be is a successful physician.

 

[MedPR]

Gotta learn to read it in context... here what I said:



This only means that MD schools are more MCAT-ophyls, that if you have a >31 MCAT then you're a shoe-in to an MD school. This isn't always true with DO schools (go check DO threads, many having >31 haven't received even an interview from most of the DO schools.) I'm not bragging about anything, though. All I wanna be is a successful physician.

Having a 32 MCAT makes you a shoo-in at MD schools? You said that DO schools attract more personable people. I didn't take what you said out of context.

I'm trying my hardest not to point out all your grammatical errors.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Those MD students you speak of are exceptions. MD medians are 3.7/32. DO median is around 3.5/26.

No, they aren't. >31 MCAT score is pretty much a shoe-in to an MD school. They like to worship to MCAT numbers, most even don't consider too much about the GPAs. Numbers game is their playground.

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

>31 MCAT score is pretty much a shoe-in to an MD school. They like to worship to MCAT numbers, most even don't consider too much about the GPAs. Numbers game is their playground.

-_-

uh-huh....

 

[NeuroLAX]

Face it DrBumblebee, you made some generalizations that don't follow and that is why Specter, MedPR, and others are countering your claims.

 

[MedPR]

No, they aren't. >31 MCAT score is pretty much a shoe-in to an MD school. They like to worship to MCAT numbers, most even don't consider too much about the GPAs. Numbers game is their playground.

Until this post you were doing a very good job of trolling all of us. I commend your efforts.

 

[Ost3oclast]

If MD = DO, then why debating this?

For the sake of all physicians and patients, I wish American DO schools will become American MD schools with an additional degree (DO=diploma of osteopathy), that is MD-DO by 2015... Just like MD schools giving MD-MBA, MD-MPH, etc... United we stand!

I wasnt debating anything?

 

[DrBumblebee]

Face it DrBumblebee, you made some generalizations that don't follow and that is why Specter, MedPR, and others are countering your claims.

No worries. They're countering pretty much with everyone, I'm not an exception. Sometimes they sound like the same person writing on two different names with the same type of abrasive attitude.

 

[DrBumblebee]

I wasnt debating anything?

that was said to support your point not to exaggerate the differences..

 

[tarheel1408]

No, they aren't. >31 MCAT score is pretty much a shoe-in to an MD school. They like to worship to MCAT numbers, most even don't consider too much about the GPAs. Numbers game is their playground.

Haha

 

[Ost3oclast]

that was said to support your point not to exaggerate the differences..

Haha ok I was confused on context...

 

[DrBumblebee]

Haha ok I was confused on context...

no worries

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

No worries. They're countering pretty much with everyone, I'm not an exception. Sometimes they sound like the same person writing on two different names with the same type of abrasive attitude.

Hmm... would you rather they comment about how erudite and salient the following quote is?

"My experiences with physicians so long tell me that DOs are more down to earth persons than most of the MDs, who think themselves are like small-scaled gods on Earth."

I actually like those guys because they offer some valid and insightful commentary. Agreeing with the above comment is neither valid nor insightful.

 

[SpecterGT260]

No, they aren't. >31 MCAT score is pretty much a shoe-in to an MD school. They like to worship to MCAT numbers, most even don't consider too much about the GPAs. Numbers game is their playground.

You are wrong.

Where are you getting this?

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[SpecterGT260]

Having a 32 MCAT makes you a shoo-in at MD schools? You said that DO schools attract more personable people. I didn't take what you said out of context.

I'm trying my hardest not to point out all your grammatical errors.

Right? It's just so hard not to do when somebody's being a tool

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[SpecterGT260]

You're the one telling that DO schools accept lower scores. And, I'm telling you about MD students with 2.90-3.3 GPAs... oh, hello?

Regarding to the down-to-earth persoanlity, well, at least it's clear here at SDN with your abrasive personality.

People are all accepted on a spectrum. AMCAS has the districts on every acceptance rate for GPA and MCAT. There are also DOs with those GPA numbers. So what does that make them?

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[Balantidiumcoli]

People are all accepted on a spectrum. AMCAS has the districts on every acceptance rate for GPA and MCAT. There are also DOs with those GPA numbers. So what does that make them?

Too busy being down to Earth (i.e. rationalizing why they are still amazing even though they aren't competitive for allo admissions) to keep up with their grades, obviously.

 

[DrBumblebee]

People are all accepted on a spectrum. AMCAS has the districts on every acceptance rate for GPA and MCAT. There are also DOs with those GPA numbers. So what does that make them?

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You are the one having the highest ego I've ever smelled while reading at SDN. Go try to explain your deduction. I'll be reading it...

 

[MedPR]

You are the one having the highest ego I've ever smelled while reading at SDN. Go try to explain your deduction. I'll be reading it...

He didn't deduce anything. He stated fact, then asked how you would explain it.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Too busy being down to Earth (i.e. rationalizing why they are still amazing even though they aren't competitive for allo admissions) to keep up with their grades, obviously.

Giddap!. Until your hard-shell has been cracked after meeting with thousands of real patients who'd prefer to be seen by only those personable physicians but not snubs like yourself..

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

Giddap!. Until your hard-shell has been cracked after meeting with thousands of real patients who'd prefer to be seen by only those personable physicians but not snubs like yourself..

Ermahgerd. Just ermahgerd. You are too kute!

 

[username456789]

Well, this is not the actuality!

MD schools have become like MCAT-ophyls instead of looking for all-round applicants.

This is a ridiculous bedtime story that DO students tell themselves at night to fend off the evil nightmare monsters.

MD schools look for all-around applicants. They simply end up being able to select from those who happen to be better at getting "around" the MCAT in addition to all the other worldly attributes.

 

[DrBumblebee]

This is a ridiculous bedtime story that DO students tell themselves at night to fend off the evil nightmare monsters.

MD schools look for all-around applicants. They simply end up being able to select from those who happen to be better at getting "around" the MCAT in addition to all the other worldly attributes.

really? when did you get your mcat exam?

 

[username456789]

really? when did you get your mcat exam?

I "got" it in 2006.

 

[MedPR]

Giddap!. Until your hard-shell has been cracked after meeting with thousands of real patients who'd prefer to be seen by only those personable physicians but not snubs like yourself..

You can keep your personable physicians. I'll take the snubs with the best diagnostic skills.

 

[MedPR]

This is a ridiculous bedtime story that DO students tell themselves at night to fend off the evil nightmare monsters.

MD schools look for all-around applicants. They simply end up being able to select from those who happen to be better at getting "around" the MCAT in addition to all the other worldly attributes.

I don't think I've ever seen you venture into this forum.

 

[Ost3oclast]

You can keep your personable physicians. I'll take the snubs with the best diagnostic skills.

I would rather have the same. However, why cant we have a personable doc WITH the best diagnostic skills? Win win.

 

[DrBumblebee]

This is a ridiculous bedtime story that DO students tell themselves at night to fend off the evil nightmare monsters.

MD schools look for all-around applicants. They simply end up being able to select from those who happen to be better at getting "around" the MCAT in addition to all the other worldly attributes.

I know 3 applicants, who "got" 3-4 points higher on their next MCATs and got in to MD schools in the next cycle (their scores were 25-29, 26-30, 26-29). There were interestingly no differences in their app profiles except for that much of an increase in their MCATs.

Your argument is invalid. MD schools love MCAT more than anything. I know a person on SDN with a 2.6 GPA who matriculated to MD school.

 

[username456789]

I don't think I've ever seen you venture into this forum before.

It's rare, indeed. It's a combination of having more time off than I know what to do with at the moment (elective month in a TY program) and a renewed interest in the DO world after practicing alongside some DOs and working with some DO students.

I'm in a TY that has a MD/DO internal medicine program associated with it (at the same hospital), and a bunch of DO students rotate through. We work on the medicine services with the DO interns and function identically, and for the most part there really is no perceived difference on my end.

However, what I do notice is that the educational experience at my hospital for the students is abysmal. They utilize the hospital for the core medicine months for many students at a DO school a few hours away, and I honestly can't believe it. Now, I absolutely don't want to get into a pissing match or a "let's hate on DOs" match, because that's not what I came here to do at all. But I will say that as much as I hated my inpatient internal medicine rotations in med school, I worked hard and a lot was expected of me. I'd show up at 5:30 or so to pre-round, I'd write notes, and I'd present my patients (plural) on rounds. I'd follow up on tests, even if I still wasn't even sure what the hell was going on with these patients.

The students on my medicine teams have no structure at all. It's largely a community hospital, so there's not overarching mission to educate the students. They come in at 7:30, don't carry patients, are largely invisible on rounds, and on the very rare occasion they are asked "pimping" questions, they tend to freeze up.

I really do feel bad for them, because the educational experience is just not there. I assume this is not at all representative of most/all DO schools, but when a school doesn't have its own affiliated academic hospital, I can imagine this becoming status quo. I had to tell the students on my team after their rotations that although I was giving them decent evaluations so as to not tank their careers, they basically wasted an entire month and did nothing and contributed nothing. They were nice as hell, but there were no expectations laid out by any attendings or upper level residents (and that is obviously a function of the hospital/team, unfortunately). However, much of the problems lay within the students too. All you have to do is read the opening chapter to something like First Aid for the Wards to know that showing up early, trying to help, and reading up on your patients (not to mention actually seeing/carrying patients) is what med students do. It's as if they were 1st year med students shadowing for the month.

/rant.

I do hope that most of you guys get a better experience.

 

[MedPR]

I know 3 applicants, who "got" 3-4 points higher on their next MCATs and got in to MD schools in the next cycle (their scores were 25-29, 26-30, 26-29). There were interestingly no differences in their app profiles except for that much of an increase in their MCATs.

Your argument is invalid. MD schools love MCAT more than anything. I know a person on SDN with a 2.6 GPA who matriculated to MD school.

 

[username456789]

I know 3 applicants, who "got" 3-4 points higher on their next MCATs and got in to MD schools in the next cycle (their scores were 25-29, 26-30, 26-29). There were interestingly no differences in their app profiles except for that much of an increase in their MCATs.

Your argument is invalid. MD schools love MCAT more than anything. I know a person on SDN with a 2.6 GPA who matriculated to MD school.

If you have a bad MCAT, you're not well-rounded.

MD schools essentially have the pick of the litter. Believe it or not, there are a TON of high-MCAT kids who are also extremely well-rounded otherwise. THOSE were the kids edging out your friends in the application process.

Life isn't some RPG where you have a limited resource bar and every time you increase your player's MCAT you decrease Life Experience.

And since we're playing the anecdote game, there was a well known poster on SDN a few years ago with a ~40 MCAT, a 3.0 undergrad GPA, and I believe a ~3.9 Master's GPA who struggled for at least two years to gain acceptance to an MD school. And this anecdote is just as worthless as yours.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You are the one having the highest ego I've ever smelled while reading at SDN. Go try to explain your deduction. I'll be reading it...

My wat?

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[MedPR]

It's rare, indeed. It's a combination of having more time off than I know what to do with at the moment (elective month in a TY program) and a renewed interest in the DO world after practicing alongside some DOs and working with some DO students.

I'm in a TY that has a MD/DO internal medicine program associated with it (at the same hospital), and a bunch of DO students rotate through. We work on the medicine services with the DO interns and function identically, and for the most part there really is no perceived difference on my end.

However, what I do notice is that the educational experience at my hospital for the students is abysmal. They utilize the hospital for the core medicine months for many students at a DO school a few hours away, and I honestly can't believe it. Now, I absolutely don't want to get into a pissing match or a "let's hate on DOs" match, because that's not what I came here to do at all. But I will say that as much as I hated my inpatient internal medicine rotations in med school, I worked hard and a lot was expected of me. I'd show up at 5:30 or so to pre-round, I'd write notes, and I'd present my patients (plural) on rounds. I'd follow up on tests, even if I still wasn't even sure what the hell was going on with these patients.

The students on my medicine teams have no structure at all. It's largely a community hospital, so there's not overarching mission to educate the students. They come in at 7:30, don't carry patients, are largely invisible on rounds, and on the very rare occasion they are asked "pimping" questions, they tend to freeze up.

I really do feel bad for them, because the educational experience is just not there. I assume this is not at all representative of most/all DO schools, but when a school doesn't have its own affiliated academic hospital, I can imagine this becoming status quo. I had to tell the students on my team after their rotations that although I was giving them decent evaluations so as to not tank their careers, they basically wasted an entire month and did nothing and contributed nothing. They were nice as hell, but there were no expectations laid out by any attendings or upper level residents (and that is obviously a function of the hospital/team, unfortunately). However, much of the problems lay within the students too. All you have to do is read the opening chapter to something like First Aid for the Wards to know that showing up early, trying to help, and reading up on your patients (not to mention actually seeing/carrying patients) is what med students do. It's as if they were 1st year med students shadowing for the month.

/rant.

I do hope that most of you guys get a better experience.

That's scary. My girlfriend is an M3 at an MD school and has rounded on every patient on each service she has been on and on top of that been responsible (H&P, present, notes, follow up) for at least 2 patients unless that service didn't have enough patients to go around. Her peds-neuro rotation, for example, only had 2-3 patients on any given service so sometimes she only had 1 patient to herself. She hasn't even done her IM or FM rotation yet, so I imagine things will only be getting busier for her as the year goes on. I know it's exhausting for med students to be responsible for so much, but at the same time I think most of them have the foresight to see that no patients and no responsibility leads to no learning and poor prep for residency/practice.

 

[Ost3oclast]

It's rare, indeed. It's a combination of having more time off than I know what to do with at the moment (elective month in a TY program) and a renewed interest in the DO world after practicing alongside some DOs and working with some DO students.

I'm in a TY that has a MD/DO internal medicine program associated with it (at the same hospital), and a bunch of DO students rotate through. We work on the medicine services with the DO interns and function identically, and for the most part there really is no perceived difference on my end.

However, what I do notice is that the educational experience at my hospital for the students is abysmal. They utilize the hospital for the core medicine months for many students at a DO school a few hours away, and I honestly can't believe it. Now, I absolutely don't want to get into a pissing match or a "let's hate on DOs" match, because that's not what I came here to do at all. But I will say that as much as I hated my inpatient internal medicine rotations in med school, I worked hard and a lot was expected of me. I'd show up at 5:30 or so to pre-round, I'd write notes, and I'd present my patients (plural) on rounds. I'd follow up on tests, even if I still wasn't even sure what the hell was going on with these patients.

The students on my medicine teams have no structure at all. It's largely a community hospital, so there's not overarching mission to educate the students. They come in at 7:30, don't carry patients, are largely invisible on rounds, and on the very rare occasion they are asked "pimping" questions, they tend to freeze up.

I really do feel bad for them, because the educational experience is just not there. I assume this is not at all representative of most/all DO schools, but when a school doesn't have its own affiliated academic hospital, I can imagine this becoming status quo. I had to tell the students on my team after their rotations that although I was giving them decent evaluations so as to not tank their careers, they basically wasted an entire month and did nothing and contributed nothing. They were nice as hell, but there were no expectations laid out by any attendings or upper level residents (and that is obviously a function of the hospital/team, unfortunately). However, much of the problems lay within the students too. All you have to do is read the opening chapter to something like First Aid for the Wards to know that showing up early, trying to help, and reading up on your patients (not to mention actually seeing/carrying patients) is what med students do. It's as if they were 1st year med students shadowing for the month.

/rant.

I do hope that most of you guys get a better experience.

What school was this? PM if you want.

 

[username456789]

That's scary. My girlfriend is an M3 at an MD school and has rounded on every patient on each service she has been on and on top of that been responsible (H&P, present, notes, follow up) for at least 2 patients unless that service didn't have enough patients to go around. Her peds-neuro rotation, for example, only had 2-3 patients on any given service so sometimes she only had 1 patient to herself. She hasn't even done her IM or FM rotation yet, so I imagine things will only be getting busier for her as the year goes on. I know it's exhausting for med students to be responsible for so much, but at the same time I think most of them have the foresight to see that no patients and no responsibility leads to no learning and poor prep for residency/practice.

The thing is, even if you're not at a huge academic center, things can still be educational. I spent one of my two inpatient medicine months during M3 at a community hospital affiliated with my medical school's hospital, a couple miles away. I actually think I worked harder there and had higher levels of responsibility (and learned more) during that month than during my month at my school's hospital (or at least they were roughly the same). We were required to do at least one month at the academic center hospital, and the second could be another month there, or a month at one of two smaller community hospitals.

And I fully realize that the story about the students at my current hospital is just as much an indictment of the hospital as it is the school/students. I just think the school is doing a disservice to the students when one of their core medicine months for which they are paying big bucks is essentially a throwaway month. And the school seems to be ok with this.

 

[MedPR]

What school was this? PM if you want.

PM me too if it's NSU. If not, then I don't care

 

[NeuroLAX]

My wat?

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S/He wants to synesthetically taste your thoughts.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Giddap!. Until your hard-shell has been cracked after meeting with thousands of real patients who'd prefer to be seen by only those personable physicians but not snubs like yourself..

I love the moral high ground

How many real patients have you seen?

I know 3 applicants, who "got" 3-4 points higher on their next MCATs and got in to MD schools in the next cycle (their scores were 25-29, 26-30, 26-29). There were interestingly no differences in their app profiles except for that much of an increase in their MCATs.

Your argument is invalid. MD schools love MCAT more than anything. I know a person on SDN with a 2.6 GPA who matriculated to MD school.

no you don't. You are on the net so we can easily add at least a tenth to every number you give, assume some are Carib, and others blatant lies. The matriculation averages are published. You can't fight that, little one

Not that it is impossible to matriculate with poor stats to MD schools. Its just that citing your n=none anecdotes does nothing

Life isn't some RPG where you have a limited resource bar and every time you increase your player's MCAT you decrease Life Experience.

.

Omg you're my hero. This was the perfect way to make this point

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[MedPR]

The thing is, even if you're not at a huge academic center, things can still be educational. I spent one of my two inpatient medicine months during M3 at a community hospital affiliated with my medical school's hospital, a couple miles away. I actually think I worked harder there and had higher levels of responsibility (and learned more) during that month than during my month at my school's hospital (or at least they were roughly the same).

I just think it's doing a disservice to the students when one of their core medicine months for which they are paying big bucks is essentially a throwaway month.

Oh, I believe it. She did part of inpatient peds at a community hospital and said she got way more out of that than at the university's main teaching hospital.

She's going to a VA hospital for psych. I bet that will be awesome.

 

[DrBumblebee]

It's rare, indeed. It's a combination of having more time off than I know what to do with at the moment (elective month in a TY program) and a renewed interest in the DO world after practicing alongside some DOs and working with some DO students.

I'm in a TY that has a MD/DO internal medicine program associated with it (at the same hospital), and a bunch of DO students rotate through. We work on the medicine services with the DO interns and function identically, and for the most part there really is no perceived difference on my end.

However, what I do notice is that the educational experience at my hospital for the students is abysmal. They utilize the hospital for the core medicine months for many students at a DO school a few hours away, and I honestly can't believe it. Now, I absolutely don't want to get into a pissing match or a "let's hate on DOs" match, because that's not what I came here to do at all. But I will say that as much as I hated my inpatient internal medicine rotations in med school, I worked hard and a lot was expected of me. I'd show up at 5:30 or so to pre-round, I'd write notes, and I'd present my patients (plural) on rounds. I'd follow up on tests, even if I still wasn't even sure what the hell was going on with these patients.

The students on my medicine teams have no structure at all. It's largely a community hospital, so there's not overarching mission to educate the students. They come in at 7:30, don't carry patients, are largely invisible on rounds, and on the very rare occasion they are asked "pimping" questions, they tend to freeze up.

I really do feel bad for them, because the educational experience is just not there. I assume this is not at all representative of most/all DO schools, but when a school doesn't have its own affiliated academic hospital, I can imagine this becoming status quo. I had to tell the students on my team after their rotations that although I was giving them decent evaluations so as to not tank their careers, they basically wasted an entire month and did nothing and contributed nothing. They were nice as hell, but there were no expectations laid out by any attendings or upper level residents (and that is obviously a function of the hospital/team, unfortunately). However, much of the problems lay within the students too. All you have to do is read the opening chapter to something like First Aid for the Wards to know that showing up early, trying to help, and reading up on your patients (not to mention actually seeing/carrying patients) is what med students do. It's as if they were 1st year med students shadowing for the month.

/rant.

I do hope that most of you guys get a better experience.

We do hope the same for you, too, highness.

In that some community hospital, where you're doing your residency as an MD, DOs' showing up at 7:30am and not carrying patients must be sticking you because your MD school made you show up there at 5:00am to carry the patients (and only God knows to clean their poops, too) as a free resource. This must have been worse than a ton of scutwork for you. But, it might also have helped you to become a better care giver, in return.

Rotations are most likely about shadowing at that ward and doing solo studying for the shelf. It's your responsiblity, not the hospital's, to learn what's needed. Those DOs seem like have more time to study than you used to have, about which you might have envied, I don't now.

You cannot criticize the quality of the clinical learning before seeing those DOs' shelf exams. I imagine you'd give them bad grades if you were their attendings, though. It's that hatred leaking out from your post above, so don't try to cover your sh.t...

 

[username456789]

We do hope the same for you, too, highness.

In that some community hospital, where you're doing your residency as an MD, DOs' showing up at 7:30am and not carrying patients must be sticking you because your MD school made you show up there at 5:00am to carry the patients (and only God knows to clean their poops, too) as a free resource. This must have been worse than a ton of scutwork for you. But, it might also have helped you to become a better care giver, in return.

Rotations are most likely about shadowing at that ward and doing solo studying for the shelf. It's your responsiblity, not the hospital's, to learn what's needed. Those DOs seem like have more time to study then you used to have, about which you might have envied, I don't now.

You cannot criticize the quality of the clinical learning before seeing those DOs' shelf exams. I imagine you'd give them bad grades if you were their attendings, though. It's that hatred leaking out from your post above, so don't try to cover your sh.t...

You are just a bad poster. A troll, for sure, but even bad at that.

These are DO students, not DO physicians, that I'm talking about. The DO physicians with whom I work (interns/residents) are great for the most part.

I cannot even begin to fathom how poor your reading comprehension is if your above post is in any way an attempt at a serious response. Wow.

For the non-peabrained among us who may be reading Bunglebee's post, I know it's tough to appreciate the long hours you put in during medical school, but trust me, you'll appreciate it when you get to residency and you're actually expected to know how to function as a doctor. And, contrary to what some silly posters might theorize, rounding on patients and writing notes and presenting said patients does not encompass "scutwork." That's "work", in medical school, in residency, and beyond.

 

[NeuroLAX]

You are just a bad poster. A troll, for sure, but even bad at that.

These are DO students, not DO physicians, that I'm talking about. The DO physicians with whom I work (interns/residents) are great for the most part.

I cannot even begin to fathom how poor your reading comprehension is if your above post is in any way an attempt at a serious response. Wow.

Indeed. It is evident that they do not know what they are talking about. Thus, not worth your time in exchanging rebuttals.

 

[username456789]

Indeed. It is evident that they do not know what they are talking about. Thus, not worth your time in exchanging rebuttals.

This is true.

 

[cliquesh]

We do hope the same for you, too, highness.

In that some community hospital, where you're doing your residency as an MD, DOs' showing up at 7:30am and not carrying patients must be sticking you because your MD school made you show up there at 5:00am to carry the patients (and only God knows to clean their poops, too) as a free resource. This must have been worse than a ton of scutwork for you. But, it might also have helped you to become a better care giver, in return.

Rotations are most likely about shadowing at that ward and doing solo studying for the shelf. It's your responsiblity, not the hospital's, to learn what's needed. Those DOs seem like have more time to study than you used to have, about which you might have envied, I don't now.

You cannot criticize the quality of the clinical learning before seeing those DOs' shelf exams. I imagine you'd give them bad grades if you were their attendings, though. It's that hatred leaking out from your post above, so don't try to cover your sh.t...

I don't think he is being dramatic, really. I was invisible on a lot my rotations. The MD kids I rotated with were also ignored. There is very little consistency or structure for osteopathic 3rd and 4th years. It is just the way it is and I go to one of the better DO schools. But does it really matter? He said that he didnt notice much of a difference between his DO intern peers. Your residency training is way more important than your 3rd and 4th years. Hell, most people stop trying after they send off their residency application in the beginning of their 4th year, so how much do you actual learn during that 4th year?

 

[DrBumblebee]

I don't think he is being dramatic, really. I was invisible on a lot my rotations. The MD kids I rotated with were also ignored. There is very little consistency or structure for osteopathic 3rd and 4th years. It is just the way it is and I go to one of the better DO schools. But does it really matter? He said that he didnt notice much of a difference between his DO intern peers. Your residency training is way more important than your 3rd and 4th years. Hell, most people stop trying after they send off their residency application in the beginning of their 4th year, so how much do you actual learn during that 4th year?

I know, cliquesh, but he's crossing beyond the ethical boundaries by criticizing educational backgrounds of DO students, although then he admits DO physicians are on par with him/her. This is human nature, nobody prefers extra work without any perk. This is not specific to DO students in his community hospital, who he tried to portray as slackers, about whom he also felt bad.

 

[racerwad]

I know, cliquesh, but he's crossing beyond the ethical boundaries by criticizing educational backgrounds of DO students, although then he admits DO physicians are on par with him/her. This is human nature, nobody prefers extra work without any perk. This is not specific to DO students in his community hospital, who he tried to portray as slackers, about whom he also felt bad.

I don't think he's criticizing as much as observing. He repeatedly acknowledges that it is just as much an institutional shortcoming as it is a problem with the students' initiative.

And do you know what the perk of doing "extra work" is? Having a better chance at competitive residencies and being proud of doing "extra work." We're medical students - we're at the bottom and **** rolls downhill. Being a hard worker and going the extra mile is an opportunity that I'm going to take to distinguish myself from people like yourself. Good luck out there.

 

[cliquesh]

I know, cliquesh, but he's crossing beyond the ethical boundaries by criticizing educational backgrounds of DO students, although then he admits DO physicians are on par with him/her. This is human nature, nobody prefers extra work without any perk. This is not specific to DO students in his community hospital, who he tried to portray as slackers, about whom he also felt bad.

I guess we interpreted what he said differently. You read, " do students are slackers" and I read, " do clinical rotations are not structured," which I agree with.