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ridiculous thread is ridiculous.
ridiculous thread is ridiculous.
Fun stuff.... Can't we all just get along?
Not as ridiculous as that dog in your avatar!
Not as ridiculous as that dog in your avatar!
Right? Unfortunately at this point I think it is impossible to do so. Some MD's will always dislike DO's, thats how it is. The less people stress out about it, and the more they try to push past stereotypes the best they can, the happier they will be.
Let's not forget the D.O. student who's surgery preceptor was a nurse. A nurse.
Long time Doc, how's school treating you?
Let's not forget the D.O. student who's surgery preceptor was a nurse. A nurse.
I laughed so hard at this! I had to make it my sig....
student at pnwu in yakima wa which didn't get accredited until this year. crappy deal regardless.
Doing well LPB (can't change your name, you will forever be LPB). Just started second quarter and I did very well first quarter. Always room for improvement, but I'm happy. Settled into a decent study method that i can live with on a daily basis. How's CCOM treating you?
Why should you be? I understand the "D.O. in an MD World" game very well and I intend to play it to the best of my ability.
It is well known that quite a few (not all) D.O. rotations are lackluster. It's very easy to put on rose-colored shades when you have an acceptance to medical school just like all of us did at one point. But the sooner you realize the shortcomings of D.O. training, the better you can work to beat the system. Being proactive in your education will only enhance your future quality as a physician.
Let's not forget the D.O. student who's surgery preceptor was a nurse. A nurse.
DOs are not MD+
D.O.'s aren't anymore special than MDs. We're all physicians.
MCAT >31 is not a shoo-in of anything. Nothing is guaranteed in the application process.
In the future, maybe DOs and MDs would merge, but not in our lifetime.
Edit: I also laff'd at physically carrying patients and cleaning dem "poops."
I'm now sure you and Sphinchter are one person behind the screen.
So... no. You don't know what "comply" means
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You are first year at a DO school, right. I guess excitement about getting matriculated to a medical school faded too fast for you.It is well known that quite a few (not all) D.O. rotations are lackluster. It's very easy to put on rose-colored shades when you have an acceptance to medical school just like all of us did at one point.
Thank you, sir. As a DO student, how do you recommend me to turn down all of my DO school acceptances and reapply to MD schools next year?But the sooner you realize the shortcomings of D.O. training, the better you can work to beat the system. Being proactive in your education will only enhance your future quality as a physician.
Although, you're a first year DO school student, I'd like to ask where did you hear that? Which school is it?Let's not forget the D.O. student who's surgery preceptor was a nurse. A nurse.
Exactly what I've been saying... If not, I wouldn't have applied to DO schools, at all.DOs are not MD+
D.O.'s aren't anymore special than MDs. We're all physicians.
Although, the bolded part is absolutely right, I still have the perception that >31 MCAT is a shoo in to MD schools.MCAT >31 is not a shoo-in of anything. Nothing is guaranteed in the application process.
Especially after reading all of the insulting posts here coming from MD residents and attendings, I don't care too much for this any more. Now, I feel for you Dr. Still, rest in peace. I'm so grateful that I was given the chance(s) to study at a medical school in the States. I'm only focused on becoming a great physician at the end that MD or DO letters after my name don't make a difference. I'll be a doctor.In the future, maybe DOs and MDs would merge, but not in our lifetime.
P.S.: I laff'ed at it, too... I even laughed harder to how you follow what MedPRick and Sphincter changed each and every sentence of mine up to their sick and twisted tastes of understanding.Edit: I also laff'd at physically carrying patients and cleaning dem "poops."
Sphincter, relax!
No, he is saying illusioned beliefs about the system will only hurt you. You can't overcome an obstacle that you pretend (or convince yourself) isnt thereYou are first year at a DO school, right. I guess excitement about getting matriculated to a medical school faded too fast for you.
Thank you, sir. As a DO student, how do you recommend me to turn down all of my DO school acceptances and reapply to MD schools next year?
And you're a "not any kind" of med student so.... You are rejecting his input on the basis that he hasnt reached a level of something you are even further from? There are psych terms for this sort of behavior.....Although, you're a first year DO school student, I'd like to ask where did you hear that? Which school is it?
Sorry broski. I dont comply with this You have been saying much more than this. if you hadnt been you wouldnt have had a DO attending, 2 residents, at least 2 DO med students, a number of pre-DOs and myself telling you otherwise. It still isnt too late to back off and admit you over stepped on a couple points. Your stubborn adherence to them just makes you look ignorant.Exactly what I've been saying... If not, I wouldn't have applied to DO schools, at all.
And some people perceive that aliens will come take them to paradise if they drink the koolaid. On this you are simply wrong. There is no discussion to be had. AMCAS publishes the data on acceptance rate by MCAT and GPA. The acceptance rate is ~70%. Even those in the 40-45MCAT and 3.8+ range still have only about a 95% acceptance rate (yes, padawan, people with 40s DO get rejected from med school. Yes, it is because MD schools look at the whole person and are not just interested in numbers. they have been in this game longer than DO schools have been )Although, the bolded part is absolutely right, I still have the perception that >31 MCAT is a shoo in to MD schools.
Especially after reading all of the insulting posts here coming from MD residents and attendings, I don't care too much for this any more. Now, I feel for you Dr. Still, rest in peace. I'm so grateful that I was given the chance(s) to study at a medical school in the States. I'm only focused on becoming a great physician at the end that MD or DO letters after my name don't make a difference. I'll be a doctor.
P.S.: I laff'ed at it, too... I even laughed harder to how you follow what MedPRick and Sphincter changed each and every sentence of mine up to their sick and twisted tastes of understanding.
Although, the bolded part is absolutely right, I still have the perception that >31 MCAT is a shoo in to MD schools.
P.S.: I laff'ed at it, too... I even laughed harder to how you follow what MedPRick and Sphincter changed each and every sentence of mine up to their sick and twisted tastes of understanding.
I followed it because it was similar to my own understanding of what you are writing which led to my first comment.
Oh how quickly we forget.... Wasn't there some issue recently where somebody was acting juvenile/name calling on SDN and it totally came back to bite them...?
Not taking any sides here, but I would hope that some of us on this thread would remember that it's far better for our future acceptances/careers if we just respectfully disagree and move on rather than continue this flame war. The childish name calling in particular gives the rest of us premeds a black eye of sorts...
You are just a bad poster. A troll, for sure, but even bad at that.
These are DO students, not DO physicians, that I'm talking about. The DO physicians with whom I work (interns/residents) are great for the most part.
I cannot even begin to fathom how poor your reading comprehension is if your above post is in any way an attempt at a serious response. Wow.
For the non-peabrained among us who may be reading Bunglebee's post, I know it's tough to appreciate the long hours you put in during medical school, but trust me, you'll appreciate it when you get to residency and you're actually expected to know how to function as a doctor. And, contrary to what some silly posters might theorize, rounding on patients and writing notes and presenting said patients does not encompass "scutwork." That's "work", in medical school, in residency, and beyond.
Although, you're a first year DO school student, I'd like to ask where did you hear that? Which school is it?
You are first year at a DO school, right. I guess excitement about getting matriculated to a medical school faded too fast for you.
Thank you, sir. As a DO student, how do you recommend me to turn down all of my DO school acceptances and reapply to MD schools next year?
Although, you're a first year DO school student, I'd like to ask where did you hear that? Which school is it?
Exactly what I've been saying... If not, I wouldn't have applied to DO schools, at all.
Although, the bolded part is absolutely right, I still have the perception that >31 MCAT is a shoo in to MD schools.
Especially after reading all of the insulting posts here coming from MD residents and attendings, I don't care too much for this any more. Now, I feel for you Dr. Still, rest in peace. I'm so grateful that I was given the chance(s) to study at a medical school in the States. I'm only focused on becoming a great physician at the end that MD or DO letters after my name don't make a difference. I'll be a doctor.
P.S.: I laff'ed at it, too... I even laughed harder to how you follow what MedPRick and Sphincter changed each and every sentence of mine up to their sick and twisted tastes of understanding.
What
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Corgis are far from ridiculous. Definitely bottom of the food chain, but not ridiculous.
Wow this thread got nowhere real fast.
Sphincter, you make me vomit! Too much is really too much... Go get a life, for the sake of everyone.
P.S.: You're in my ignore list from now on. Cannot read that much dump from a sick personality.
obligatory inb4
Wow this thread got nowhere real fast.
Yea, it was nice reading all the responses that guy in the article got from MD's telling him not to worry about it an calling the PD a dbag. At least not all allopathic physicians hate DO's!
Other than that, typical MD vs DO thread.
I think the threads have value in alerting future DO students to these types of issues they will face. My question though, as a future DO, is, should you find yourself stuck with subpar clinical rotations what can you do to overcome the lack of clinical education you are getting?
Bro read more than one post before you start spewing bs.
Both MD and DO are interested in well rounded students. MD schools happen to have a larger pool of applicants with high GPAs and high MCATs and can therefore take their pick of these applicants. It doesn't mean they put less value on ECs than DO schools do.
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I think the threads have value in alerting future DO students to these types of issues they will face. My question though, as a future DO, is, should you find yourself stuck with subpar clinical rotations what can you do to overcome the lack of clinical education you are getting?
True.
I think these threads have value, the major issue is that some people lash out against information they don't want to hear. That is destructive for a number of reasons, possible the least of which being misinformation spread on the subject. I think PR (PRick? Is that how he is preferring to be called now? As I am sure nobody would result to direct vulgarities who actually had an intelligent point to make... I assume I missed the name change) nailed it on the head when he said understanding the shortcomings in educations - EVERYONE's education - is vital to being able to overcome them. Denial of the shortcomings due to fear and insecurity of some arbitrarily drawn line between professions does nothing helpful. If anything, it alter's people's focus and leads them to make misinformed decisions regarding their application. People listening to bunglebutt stand only to decrease their chances of getting what they want in the end. However people willing to listen to PRick and sphincter (odd combo... but hey the times are a-changin) without reacting emotionally at least stand to make a more informed decision.
I think the threads have value in alerting future DO students to these types of issues they will face. My question though, as a future DO, is, should you find yourself stuck with subpar clinical rotations what can you do to overcome the lack of clinical education you are getting?
I apologize if I was misunderstood. I promise I have read the whole thread.
That's actually exactly what I said. My only point was that DOs are generally more willing to supplement higher MCAT and GPAs with life experience. There was no intent to offend. Sorry if I did.
Unfortunately, very little, beyond being aware that this can happen. DO students should be aware that IM rotations should be inpatient, that wards > clinic, that preceptors should be physicians, etc. If you find yourself on a sub-par rotation, just keep your head down, work hard, and spend the extra time not working on studying. You never know, your attending might be BFFs with the PD of the program you're interested in.
As others have mentioned, until pre-meds start to understand that the clinical experience component of our (osteopathic) training is both the most important and most variable among schools and therefore choose schools accordingly, we're not going to get anywhere in improving the situation.
I get what you are saying but it is really hard as a pre-med an interviewee to get accurate info on what the clinical rotations will be like, with the exception of maybe the state schools that have their own affiliated hospitals. Most of the schools split up the students and send them to a number of different places and so everyone's experiences vary and the sites can fluxuate from year to year. This has at least been my experience. How did you go about finding out more about clinicals as a pre-med?
I think the threads have value in alerting future DO students to these types of issues they will face. My question though, as a future DO, is, should you find yourself stuck with subpar clinical rotations what can you do to overcome the lack of clinical education you are getting?
Yea, it's not a huge deal. Every DOs clinical experiences are different. I have classmates who have wonderful clerkships and others who didn't learn a thing. So, at worst, your 3rd year is a complete waste. Your 4th year is mostly electives, which you can do anywhere, so those electives should correct for any deficits you may have. Even if they don't it just means your.first few months of internship will suck a little more, but you'll catch up eventually. Your 2 years of clinical experience in medical schoo is like 2 out of 30 years of clinical experiene. In your lifetime. It doesn't really matter.
I apologize if I was misunderstood. I promise I have read the whole thread.
That's actually exactly what I said. My only point was that DOs are generally more willing to supplement higher MCAT and GPAs with life experience. There was no intent to offend. Sorry if I did.
Yea, it's not a huge deal. Every DOs clinical experiences are different. I have classmates who have wonderful clerkships and others who didn't learn a thing. So, at worst, your 3rd year is a complete waste. Your 4th year is mostly electives, which you can do anywhere, so those electives should correct for any deficits you may have. Even if they don't it just means your.first few months of internship will suck a little more, but you'll catch up eventually. Your 2 years of clinical experience in medical schoo is like 2 out of 30 years of clinical experiene. In your lifetime. It doesn't really matter.
I disagree. DO schools do in fact want higher GPA and MCAT scores. These scores are correlated (albeit losely) with higher academic success and completion of medical school. <26 there is a fairly linear inverse relationship between MCAT and attrition.
Speaking from personal experience on DO interviews, there were a larger number of people who had more recently come to medicine as opposed to MDs. I personally found a few of these people to be less serious about it. But this is something that is expected with a pool of people with lower average scores. It is more of an artifact of the process than an intentional criterion. If DO schools had as many 30+ applicants in their pool as the MD schools did it would not only be reasonable but expected that averages for matriculation would rise. Again, from personal experience, I straight told 2 DOs at an interview (this was DMU, btw, so, not one of the podunk or new schools) for the "why DO?" question that the only reason to go DO was that there is potential to play into the views of patients to foster primary care relationships as patients tend to incorrectly associate osteopathy with hollisticism. Result? Accepted
The "more willing to compensate" thing is an example of interpretation bias. They are not actively recruiting people who trained abroad as a chef over people who worked as ED techs (there was one of those this DO interview, btw... french chef ~3 months before deciding to apply med schools. Had good grades/mcat but very few clinical ECs, offerent interview, no idea about acceptance). The fact that there are more varied experiences (to a very VERY minor degree....) in DO schools is more of a numbers game given the score range that most DO schools get to pick from. It also comes from the increased level of competition at MD schools where most MD students have lots of various experiences but have so many focused pre-med experiences that these others are not as often discussed.
I am not trying to say that MD students take it more seriously. There are people who by good fortune really do just walk into MD school without really working to understand what they are getting in to. All I am saying is that the explanation you gave isn't exactly accurate. DO schools are trying to fill their seats the best they can with the applicant pool they have just as MD schools are. DO schools put largely equal (as it is variable withing BOTH the DO and MD worlds) emphasis on scores vs ECs. Some schools of each look a little harder at ECs, some schools of each look harder at grades. There is no increase in one vs the other when looking at MD and DO adcoms as a whole.
You didn't offend. I was mostly replying to the bold. Out of curiosity, what makes you think that DOs are more willing to take lower scores in exchange for life experience? Is it because DO schools have lower median stats than MD schools?
If so, that's why I (and others) have mentioned that MD schools have higher stats mainly because their pool of applicants has higher stats. They have the luxury of a thousands of well-rounded applicants. Well-rounded meaning high GPAs, high MCATs, and lots of intangibles. Less people apply to DO schools so statistically they can expect a lower number of well-rounded applicants.