Do DOs take pride in their identity or not?

[IslandStyle808]

I think it probably is worth mentioning that plenty of people will DO fine getting into a fellowship from a non-university or academic program. I think SDN and even i've bought into the inflated ego of a competition that doesn't exist as concretely as much as possibly the people who want regional or specific programs have made it out to be in general.

I think DOs will be totally fine for the majority of residencies and fellowships and probably be happy and well trained in their fields.

I think that is something we shouldn't undervalue or forget..

This is true. I think a lot of community programs also have fellowships that seem to take in-house applicants. Still one should be fine for matching into fellowships from a good chunk of programs (in-house fellowship or not).

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[SLC]

Since you @Drrrrrr. Celty and @ChiTownBHawks are grand master at this let me as you a question ive gotten idk answers to. Community IM or Academic associated IM , does it matter which one you do that puts you in a position for a better fellowship app?

Academic will (almost) always give you better resources and connections. These (from what I was told when I was considering IM) make fellowship matching easier.

That being said, our hospital has a communiversity IM program in it. It's almost 100% FMG, with a couple of US-IMG's sprinkled in. It's separate from our main University Program in that it is based entirely out of a different, much smaller, hospital, but still has university sponsorship.

Anyway, those guys match quite well. This past class had Cards, GI, HemeOnc, and Palm/CC at places like Mayo, Baylor, BWH, CCF.

When I was considering IM, my advisors were pretty clear that the majority of folks applying to fellowships were able to find training in their field of choice. And that most of the competition came for folks applying to the higher ranked places and for people with tight geographical restrictions.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Academic will (almost) always give you better resources and connections. These (from what I was told when I was considering IM) make fellowship matching easier.

That being said, our hospital has a communiversity IM program in it. It's almost 100% FMG, with a couple of US-IMG's sprinkled in. It's separate from our main University Program in that it is based entirely out of a different, much smaller, hospital, but still has university sponsorship.

Anyway, those guys match quite well. This past class had Cards, GI, HemeOnc, and Palm/CC at places like Mayo, Baylor, BWH, CCF.

When I was considering IM, my advisors were pretty clear that the majority of folks applying to fellowships were able to find training in their field of choice. And that most of the competition came for folks applying to the higher ranked places and for people with tight geographical restrictions.

Alright so point for the young, and not married


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[SLC]

Alright so point for the young, and not married


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Ha ha, exactly. I'm neither and ultimately didn't see myself having another 6 years in the tank for training. Switched at the very last minute to FM. Now I've only got 1.5 years left!

It gets better folks!

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Ha ha, exactly. I'm neither and ultimately didn't see myself having another 6 years in the tank for training. Switched at the very last minute to FM. Now I've only got 1.5 years left!

It gets better folks!

Ha ill be 32yrs old if i go that route which aint a bad age to finish training . Thanks for the words of advise

 

[SLC]

Ha ill be 32yrs old if i go that route which aint a bad age to finish training . Thanks for the words of advise

I have nearly 5 years on that already.

 

[68PGunner]

Ha ha, exactly. I'm neither and ultimately didn't see myself having another 6 years in the tank for training. Switched at the very last minute to FM. Now I've only got 1.5 years left!

It gets better folks!

How does it get better? I feel like I should always come into every new situation with the expectation that it's going to be a more miserable hell in order not to be disappointed.

 

[SLC]

How does it get better? I feel like I should always come into every new situation with the expectation that it's going to be a more miserable hell in order not to be disappointed.

Not a bad way to approach things I suppose. But residency has been infinitely better than med school ever was IMO, and my next stop looks like it will be even better than that!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Not a bad way to approach things I suppose. But residency has been infinitely better than med school ever was IMO, and my next stop looks like it will be even better than that!

80 hour weeks versus medical school?

 

[SLC]

80 hour weeks versus medical school?

80hr weeks actually caring for patients. Heck yeah, it's better!

 

[John1513]

Reading these posts and a commercial on TV just came on about a Kung Fu class.

Imagine all the white and yellow belts saying that the black belt teaching or the Master is full of crap.

I suppose those who teach must remain very patient and confident, and not get overly offended.

Those who are willing to learn will learn, and the chaffe will be seperated from the wheat.

Great job articulating @bones !

Dig On!

 

[DOFOSHO]

80hr weeks actually caring for patients. Heck yeah, it's better!

Transitional year?

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Transitional year?

Hes an attending now, did FM. Not sure this should have been necrobumped. Also I am wondering if Bones was my OMM professor now. More questions than answers.

 

[gensurghopeful]

I take pride in who I am - so yes to answer your question

 

[SurgDoc95]

Take pride in it unless you're part of the group who praises AT Still like a cultist and believes we need to continue touting ourselves as being more "patient centered" than our MD colleagues. Oh and if you think the doctors that DO campaign is helpful to the profession please stop it.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Take pride in it unless you're part of the group who praises AT Still like a cultist and believes we need to continue touting ourselves as being more "patient centered" than our MD colleagues. Oh and if you think the doctors that DO campaign is helpful to the profession please stop it.

I hated that campaign with a burning passion. I believe seeing that rolled out was the moment I realized that the AOA doesn’t actually care about advocating for or advancing DOs.

 

[John1513]

@DrMcCoyDO I heard that the AOA hired the PR people of PepsiCo for that campaign.

I think it is going to be a multi step process, with the goal of most Americans hearing about/knowing at least of, DOs by 2020.

Remember when the Rapper Eminem first came on the radio? Dr Dre made his voice squeakier and more annoying on purpose for his radio debut song “My name is, my name is”

Once he became mainstream, Eminem made less annoying in-yo-face lyrics and topics and showcased his true talents.

Maybe the “Doctors that DO” campaign is our “my name is” radio song.

How will we as practicing DOs represent/Carry out Phase 2 of this campaign?

Do we pout? Self hate?

No —- time to show off.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

@DrMcCoyDO I heard that the AOA hired the PR people of PepsiCo for that campaign.

I think it is going to be a multi step process, with the goal of most Americans hearing about/knowing at least of, DOs by 2020.

Remember when the Rapper Eminem first came on the radio? Dr Dre made his voice squeakier and more annoying on purpose for his radio debut song “My name is, my name is”

Once he became mainstream, Eminem made less annoying in-yo-face lyrics and topics and showcased his true talents.

Maybe the “Doctors that DO” campaign is our “my name is” radio song.

How will we as practicing DOs represent/Carry out Phase 2 of this campaign?

Do we pout? Self hate?

No —- time to show off.

That campaign is utter garbage. The AOA president elect came and literally lied to the faces of our medical students. They are running the credibility of DOs into the ground and they act like it’s a good thing. Don’t kid yourself into thinking they actually give a rip about you or anyone else, they only care about themselves.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Do we pout? Self hate?

No self hate on my end of things. I’m proud of my degree; it was a damn hard journey to get it. I just don’t appreciate the AOA trying to tell the public and my MD colleagues that DOs are better than MDs; we’re not. We’re not any more compassionate or holistic than MDs; there are plenty on both sides that exemplify those characteristics and plenty who don’t. I don’t see this approach doing anything but creating more dissension between DOs and MDs. If the AOA wants to advocate for DOs, then they need to make the public aware that we are medical professionals who stand side-by-side with MDs in treating them, not act like we’re any different or better.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

That campaign is utter garbage. The AOA president elect came and literally lied to the faces of our medical students. They are running the credibility of DOs I to the ground and they act like it’s a good thing. Don’t kid yourself into thinking they actually give a rip about you or anyone else, they only care about themselves.

Preaching to the choir on that one.

 

[Goro]

That campaign is utter garbage. The AOA president elect came and literally lied to the faces of our medical students. They are running the credibility of DOs into the ground and they act like it’s a good thing. Don’t kid yourself into thinking they actually give a rip about you or anyone else, they only care about themselves.

Did you confront him on that?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Did you confront him on that?

I try not to rock the boat too much, not when such things could ruin my career at this point. All I can do at this point is try and help my friends to see why they need to disregard a lot of what they hear

 

[Goro]

I try not to rock the boat too much, not when such things could ruin my career at this point. All I can do at this point is try and help my friends to see why they need to disregard a lot of what they hear

I understand.

There are polite ways to, well, confront people over their hypocrisies. Texas ladies with big hair made it an art form.

 

[John1513]

I understand.

@Goro There are polite ways to, well, confront people over their hypocrisies. Texas ladies with big hair made it an art form.

Regarding this matter, I was advised to watch British Parlament sessions on youtube.

The brits have quite a way of disagreeing and calling each other idiots vey politely. “Ordahhh! Ordah!!!”

 

[NurWollen]

So I'm pretty sure when the "Doctors that DO" campaign was started, the AOA claimed they were basing it on survey feedback from DOs and DO students. Are most DOs really that blind or did the AOA cherry pick data from the survey/manipulate the survey?

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[QueenJames]

Screw the initials.

It's the amount of zeros on that future paycheck that makes me proud... OMM gonna be a nice little supplement to my primary care practice.

 

[hallowmann]

So I'm pretty sure when the "Doctors that DO" campaign was started, the AOA claimed they were basing it on survey feedback from DOs and DO students. Are most DOs really that blind or did the AOA cherry pick data from the survey/manipulate the survey?

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I suspect it has something to do with selection, given the type of DOs that will receive, open, read, and take such a survey, my guess is the majority would do that would also agree with the AOA on things.

To be honest, I don't know what a "good" ad campaign for DO's would look like. I suspect it would be something more nuanced, like starting a show about DOs, or getting DOs on established shows or having episodes where they mention being a DO. Also, maybe pushing harder for media/journalists to correct it when someone famous/featured/well-liked is mistaken as an MD, when they're actually a DO. Seems like a lot more work though than just putting up a bunch of "Doctors that DO" posters.

 

[EMdocMK]

I wanted to get some viewpoints on how DOs view themselves. Sometimes it seems some want to hide it, some are ambivalent.... So any opinions would be appreciated.

No, we hate ourselves

 

[John1513]

@twospadz proud

 

[Philotic]

At the end of the day, just do good work and be proud of that work. You wanted to be a doctor and you sacrificed whatever you had to so you could be one. Don't worry too much about the letters after your name.

 

[NurWollen]

I suspect it has something to do with selection, given the type of DOs that will receive, open, read, and take such a survey, my guess is the majority would do that would also agree with the AOA on things.

To be honest, I don't know what a "good" ad campaign for DO's would look like. I suspect it would be something more nuanced, like starting a show about DOs, or getting DOs on established shows or having episodes where they mention being a DO. Also, maybe pushing harder for media/journalists to correct it when someone famous/featured/well-liked is mistaken as an MD, when they're actually a DO. Seems like a lot more work though than just putting up a bunch of "Doctors that DO" posters.

I think something along the lines of "we're just like MDs" rather than insinuating (but not all-out-saying) that we're better than MDs would be a start.

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[workaholic181]

At the end of the day, just do good work and be proud of that work. You wanted to be a doctor and you sacrificed whatever you had to so you could be one. Don't worry too much about the letters after your name.

This. Vast majority of the DOs I've worked with loved being a DO and were proud to be, because at the end of the day they were good practitioners. Seriously once you're in a clinical setting, people only care if you're good at your job. And this is coming from an MD student. The reason DOs exist is most become really good doctors. Not some ad campaign the AOA tries to push.

 

[Goro]

So I'm pretty sure when the "Doctors that DO" campaign was started, the AOA claimed they were basing it on survey feedback from DOs and DO students. Did the AOA cherry pick data from the survey/manipulate the survey?

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FTFY

 

[sab3156]

That campaign is utter garbage. The AOA president elect came and literally lied to the faces of our medical students. They are running the credibility of DOs into the ground and they act like it’s a good thing. Don’t kid yourself into thinking they actually give a rip about you or anyone else, they only care about themselves.

Lol he came to KCU and tried to convince us to take the AOA specialty board certification at the end of our ACGME residencies instead of ABMS. He basically said he wanted us to show loyalty to the profession. That guy belongs in jail. These guys are paid to lie and defraud innocent people.

 

[Darkness2018]

I don't see a need for two separate type of degrees. We got rid of grade replacement, and AOA residencies. The philosophy sounds different, but it doesn't produce different type of patient approaches at all. The only difference at this point is OMM courses. Most graduating DOs will never use it, and I think it will decrease even more as we all go on to ACGME residencies.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

That campaign is utter garbage. The AOA president elect came and literally lied to the faces of our medical students. They are running the credibility of DOs into the ground and they act like it’s a good thing. Don’t kid yourself into thinking they actually give a rip about you or anyone else, they only care about themselves.

If you get a chance, checkout the podcast "The Premed Years." He is the guest for the episode called "Common Questions Premeds Have About Osteopathic Medicine." At first, he was somewhat helpful, but then he started crapping on MD's and I lost respect for him.