DO from America or MD from Caribbean, which one?

[BadVB750]

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He also didn't put "dr." on his white coat, I think that is highly unethical and misleading to do so

How is putting Dr. XXX on your coat unethical and misleading. Isn't a DO a doctor? Don't they have all the rights and privileges of a physician? It would be unethical for a PA or NP to put Dr. XXX on there coat. You can make the argument that it is cowardly not to put Dr. XXX, D.O. I have seen plently of allopathic doctors put Dr. XXX on their coats, are they being misleading and unethical?

 

[AngryBaby]

I can't believe you have Tom Brady in your profile. That fool is going DOWN! Go Colts! 😀

Don't you have to win in the playoffs b4 you can insult Mr. Brady?? Peyton's they best QB around...if the games don't matter.

 

[NonTradMed]

Argh, three pages and most of it don't even answer the OP's question: which degree would get him into residency?

To the OP, this is what I have have found through reading the forums: go DO if you want to specialize, unless it is surgery. Go carribean if you really want MD and want to/don't mind doing primary care. It seems that DO schools allows more chances of getting into a nonprimary care speciality than FMG, unless it's surgery, where the DO advantage is not so obvious. However, both will get you into primary care. Remember that as FMG, you will be given second choice after the US MDs match. However, US DOs have their own residency, so you can match there to specialize.

However, I am an entering first year med student, attending a US MD school. All the above information is what I have researched (I had a lot of time on my hands this year, ok?). You may want to go into the DO forums and the FMG forums and ask there. The pre-allo forums is not the best place to ask something like this.

 

[DoctorPardi]

I can't believe you have Tom Brady in your profile. That fool is going DOWN! Go Colts! 😀

Why EDGE WHY!?!?! Oh well Joseph Addai better dominate and if he does the boston harbor will run red with the blood of the New England Patriots interior defensive linemen!

 

[Law2Doc]

yeah I didnt understand that comment either...the top DO schools are "better" than a large proportion of MD schools..what does that even mean??? its hard enough trying to convince people that MD is not to be considered "better" than DO w/o having DO's spouting the same BS...different schools, DO or MD, are "better" for an individual applicant

Note the source. He chose DO, so obviously he thinks it better. Nothing wrong with him being happy with his decision. Happy med students mean fewer dissatisfied doctors.
I suspect in parts of the country, esp. where OSUdoc hails from, some of the DO school have comparable if not stronger stats than the local MD schools. That's not close to the case everywhere else. So I think "large proportion" is quite a big stretch.

 

[masterMood]

no one likes my black power ranger 🙁

 

[Orthodoc40]

Don't you have to win in the playoffs b4 you can insult Mr. Brady?? Peyton's they best QB around...if the games don't matter.

Too true.
They had the way paved for them last season and he even let the Steelers beat him. Now that proves he's a choker because seriously - The STEELERS??!!

Not only is Tom Brady a winner, he's gorgeous, too boot. (Yes, I'm a female football fan...) Ha - what's Peyton got to say about that?!

 

[Orthodoc40]

Why EDGE WHY!?!?! Oh well Joseph Addai better dominate and if he does the boston harbor will run red with the blood of the New England Patriots interior defensive linemen!

Now THAT'S funny!! Richard Seymour (oh yeah - only the BEST DL in football) & Vince Wilfork are laughing pretty hard at 'cha now... The Edge was their only hope - see you later rookie.

 

[notdeadyet]

In addition, the top DO schools are better than a large portion os U.S. M.D. schools.

I see some people are uncomfortable with this. If you check out the ratings of USN&WR, you can see that a few of the DO schools are ranked (meaning they are ranked higher than all of the unranked allopathic schools, obviously).

 

[Law2Doc]

I see some people are uncomfortable with this. If you check out the ratings of USN&WR, you can see that a few of the DO schools are ranked (meaning they are ranked higher than all of the unranked allopathic schools, obviously).

Assuming we are talking research rankings (not primary care, which isn't really the list allo schools compete for), which ones? I don't see any in the top 50 US News gives us for free? Would be curious to know. Thanks.

 

[notdeadyet]

Assuming we are talking research rankings (not primary care, which isn't really the list allo schools compete for), which ones? I don't see any in the top 50 US News gives us for free? Would be curious to know. Thanks.

No worries. This is off of USN&WR primary care list (not research) in the top 50:

4. Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
20. U. of N. Texas Health Sci. Center (Texas Col. of Osteopathic Medicine), tied
30. Okla. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine, tied

I'm sure the allopathic ones are gunning for higher rankings on the Research list. But that sure doesn't stop the top allopathics on Primary Care from bragging about it.

Zero interest in getting in to a DO vs. MD debate. Not applying DO myself, but I'm sure it's a great path for lots of folks.

 

[Law2Doc]

No worries. This is off of USN&WR primary care list (not research) in the top 50:

4. Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
20. U. of N. Texas Health Sci. Center (Texas Col. of Osteopathic Medicine), tied
30. Okla. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine, tied

I'm sure the allopathic ones are gunning for higher rankings on the Research list. But that sure doesn't stop the top allopathics on Primary Care from bragging about it.

Zero interest in getting in to a DO vs. MD debate. Not applying DO myself, but I'm sure it's a great path for lots of folks.

That clarifies, thanks. On the allo/pre-allo board, usually when you talk ranked versus nonranked, you are referring to the research rankings list. The one with Harvard and Hopkins on the top (not outside of the top 20, as is the case in the primary care list).

 

[Doctor Bagel]

No worries. This is off of USN&WR primary care list (not research) in the top 50:

4. Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
20. U. of N. Texas Health Sci. Center (Texas Col. of Osteopathic Medicine), tied
30. Okla. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine, tied

I'm sure the allopathic ones are gunning for higher rankings on the Research list. But that sure doesn't stop the top allopathics on Primary Care from bragging about it.

Zero interest in getting in to a DO vs. MD debate. Not applying DO myself, but I'm sure it's a great path for lots of folks.

I'm not a DO basher and came very close to attending an osteopathic school, but the primary care rankings are total bunk, imo. The problem is that part of the rankings are based on the number of students who pursue primary care residencies, which doesn't really say anything about the quality of the school in preparing primary care physicians. Also, if a school does not view its main goal as producing more primary care physicians, that does not mean it's a worse school because it has a lower ranking on the USNews primary care list.

As to the op's original question, I'd go to an osteopathic school over a caribbean school in a heartbeat. Sure, allopathic surgery residencies discriminate against DO applicants, but there are osteopathic surgical residencies out there for you.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Note the source. He chose DO, so obviously he thinks it better. Nothing wrong with him being happy with his decision. Happy med students mean fewer dissatisfied doctors.
I suspect in parts of the country, esp. where OSUdoc hails from, some of the DO school have comparable if not stronger stats than the local MD schools. That's not close to the case everywhere else. So I think "large proportion" is quite a big stretch.

Comparable, yes, but not stronger -- at least not in OSUdoc's state. There are very strong applicants who choose the state osteopathic school over the allopathic school, but the allopathic still has higher stats overall.

 

[Law2Doc]

Comparable, yes, but not stronger -- at least not in OSUdoc's state. There are very strong applicants who choose the state osteopathic school over the allopathic school, but the allopathic still has higher stats overall.

Fair enough. I was going by his word on prior posts.

 

[Orthodoc40]

No worries. This is off of USN&WR primary care list (not research) in the top 50:

4. Mich. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine
20. U. of N. Texas Health Sci. Center (Texas Col. of Osteopathic Medicine), tied
30. Okla. State U. Coll. of Osteopathic Medicine, tied

I'm sure the allopathic ones are gunning for higher rankings on the Research list. But that sure doesn't stop the top allopathics on Primary Care from bragging about it.

Zero interest in getting in to a DO vs. MD debate. Not applying DO myself, but I'm sure it's a great path for lots of folks.

Actually #4 is MSU COM TIED w/UMass Medical School.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Fair enough. I was going by his word on prior posts.

You know, I think he's right about Texas, though. It looks like TCOM has pretty close to identical stats as Texas Tech and Texas A&M. UT-San Antonio did not release their data to USNews, and UTMB has almost the same average mcat but a higher gpa.

 

[DoctorPardi]

Now THAT'S funny!! Richard Seymour (oh yeah - only the BEST DL in football) & Vince Wilfork are laughing pretty hard at 'cha now... The Edge was their only hope - see you later rookie.

Good luck winning another superbowl without your real mvp Adam Vinatieri. Hold on which team is he on now? OH RIGHT THE COLTS!!

Anyway if I had to choose between DO or Carribean I would choose DO in a heart beat. It seems like there is a consensus that DO graduates have a better chance at getting American allopathic residencies than Carribean MD graduates.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Assuming we are talking research rankings (not primary care, which isn't really the list allo schools compete for), which ones? I don't see any in the top 50 US News gives us for free? Would be curious to know. Thanks.

If you want to go into research, don't go to a DO school.

I really don't think most of us plan on going into research, so those rankings don't even matter.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'm not a DO basher and came very close to attending an osteopathic school, but the primary care rankings are total bunk, imo. The problem is that part of the rankings are based on the number of students who pursue primary care residencies, which doesn't really say anything about the quality of the school in preparing primary care physicians. Also, if a school does not view its main goal as producing more primary care physicians, that does not mean it's a worse school because it has a lower ranking on the USNews primary care list.

As to the op's original question, I'd go to an osteopathic school over a caribbean school in a heartbeat. Sure, allopathic surgery residencies discriminate against DO applicants, but there are osteopathic surgical residencies out there for you.

Are you sure you aren't saying this because OSU is ranked higher than OU?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Comparable, yes, but not stronger -- at least not in OSUdoc's state. There are very strong applicants who choose the state osteopathic school over the allopathic school, but the allopathic still has higher stats overall.

Fortunately, USMLE/COMLEX scores and residency match lists are much more important than college GPA and MCAT scores in the long run.......

 

[Rafa]

If you want to go into research, don't go to a DO school.

I really don't think most of us plan on going into research, so those rankings don't even matter.

Question for all: is there, then, any advantage to going to a top 20 school if one doesn't plan on pursuing research, but rather other specialties, like surgery? And if so, does attending a "top" med school offer a comparable "edge" when applying for residencies the way a top-ranked undergrad allegedly offers an edge when applying to med school?

 

[Law2Doc]

Question for all: is there, then, any advantage to going to a top 20 school if one doesn't plan on pursuing research, but rather other specialties, like surgery? And if so, does attending a "top" med school offer a comparable "edge" when applying for residencies the way a top-ranked undergrad allegedly offers an edge when applying to med school?

If one has their eye set on certain top residencies, you will want to do a certain amount of research. Most of the residencies considered competitive, and some of the less competitive specialties at academic meccas, like to see a certain amount of (post-college) research in an applicant's CV. And schools ranked higher in research sometimes have more funded research opportunities, make research more accessible to med students, and a lot of the bigger name docs sometimes are usually found there, making recommendations and word of mouth weightier, if they like you. So yes, there is value to the research ranking for competitive careers not involving research. I wouldn't make your cut off the top 20 though, there are some pretty solid research schools and solid residency match lists well below that rank.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Question for all: is there, then, any advantage to going to a top 20 school if one doesn't plan on pursuing research, but rather other specialties, like surgery? And if so, does attending a "top" med school offer a comparable "edge" when applying for residencies the way a top-ranked undergrad allegedly offers an edge when applying to med school?

No, there is no advantage.

 

[OSUdoc08]

If one has their eye set on certain top residencies, you will want to do a certain amount of research. Most of the residencies considered competitive, and some of the less competitive specialties at academic meccas, like to see a certain amount of (post-college) research in an applicant's CV. And schools ranked higher in research sometimes have more funded research opportunities, make research more accessible to med students, and a lot of the bigger name docs sometimes are usually found there, making recommendations and word of mouth weightier, if they like you. So yes, there is value to the research ranking for competitive careers not involving research. I wouldn't make your cut off the top 20 though, there are some pretty solid research schools and solid residency match lists well below that rank.

This depends on the specialty. It cannot be assumed for all.

 

[AlberttheGator]

I sure have, and after over 60 hours of shadowing and thousands of patients, NOT ONE PATIENT EVER ASKED THE FAMOUS, "WHAT IS A D.O.?" QUESTION!!!!!!!! The doctor was an Ophthalmologist if anyone is curious, and he will be writing me lor for medical school (osteo schools require/recommend one). He also didn't put "dr." on his white coat, I think that is highly unethical and misleading to do so. He wore D.O. proudly on the front! BTW, this doctor has a phenomenal reputation.

Great Post!!! All this pre-med insecurity of DO's is total BS!!. I shadowed a DO that works in Hahnemann Hospital located in Center City affliated with Drexel. He was the senior attending in the radiological department, second in charge just behind the head of the department. Most of his residents were MD's from Drexel. A DO from PCOM was teaching MDs to read CT scans and MRs.

Also while I was at the hospital I saw a mix of DOs and MDs walking all around the hospital. Then I had the opportunity to sit in a case conference with all of the residents who were giving presentations to other residents. The class had a sign in sheet and the sheet had names with a mix of DOs and MDs.

In the end I realized that DO=MD.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

My family doctor of 10 years is a D.O. Up until I decided I wanted to go to medical school, I didn't even know there was such a thing. I didn't really even think about it. I just knew he was a doctor, and that's all I cared about.

 

[whyadoctor]

it doesn't matter if you go to a DO school or an MD school in the carib....what really matters is if you can get your act together....i know that the medical director or someone up there at UCLA med-school got his MD from a carib med-school....so it depends

 

[Orthodoc40]

Good luck winning another superbowl without your real mvp Adam Vinatieri. Hold on which team is he on now? OH RIGHT THE COLTS!!

Yeah - ouch. That one is gonna hurt for sure...

To the OP, I think any US school is probably the better way to go.
But you will certainly hear of plenty of people graduating from Carribean MD schools that secured great, competitive US residencies in spite of the odds, so it might not matter that much. Either one presents some uphill battles.

 

[Law2Doc]

Great Post!!! All this pre-med insecurity of DO's is total BS!!. I shadowed a DO that works in Hahnemann Hospital located in Center City affliated with Drexel. He was the senior attending in the radiological department, second in charge just behind the head of the department. Most of his residents were MD's from Drexel. A DO from PCOM was teaching MDs to read CT scans and MRs.

Also while I was at the hospital I saw a mix of DOs and MDs walking all around the hospital. Then I had the opportunity to sit in a case conference with all of the residents who were giving presentations to other residents. The class had a sign in sheet and the sheet had names with a mix of DOs and MDs.

In the end I realized that DO=MD.

Wasn't MCP Hahnemann Hospital known for being holistic/homeopathic before Drexel med school took it over? If so, that's not exactly a fair example of DO inroads into the traditional allo department strongholds. At any rate its pretty regional as to whether you see a lot of DOs working at allo school hospitals or very few.

 

[AlberttheGator]

Wasn't MCP Hahnemann Hospital known for being holistic/homeopathic before Drexel med school took it over? If so, that's not exactly a fair example of DO inroads into the traditional allo department strongholds. At any rate its pretty regional as to whether you see a lot of DOs working at allo school hospitals or very few.

True it is regional, and it seems to be that the Northeast corridor is the region most saturated with DOs.

Bottom line is DOs are incorporated into allo professions and is not unheard of. But the main point of the topic is whether American DO better than Carib MD. Personally I have had alot of experience on both sides.

My aunt went to AUC and is a senior partner in the neonatology ICU at North Jersey Shore hospital. She definitely tells me the best route is American school no matter DO or MD. Carib should be the last resort, even though she is scuccessful in her career.

 

[Orthodoc40]

True it is regional, and it seems to be that the Northeast corridor is the region most saturated with DOs.

Bottom line is DOs are incorporated into allo professions and is not unheard of. But the main point of the topic is whether American DO better than Carib MD. Personally I have had alot of experience on both sides.

My aunt went to AUC and is a senior partner in the neonatology ICU at North Jersey Shore hospital. She definitely tells me the best route is American school no matter DO or MD. Carib should be the last resort, even though she is scuccessful in her career.

I don't know about the Northeast & DO's. There are hardly ANY around here in Massachusetts. There is a total of ONE at the hospital I've been working at outside of Boston for over a year, and just a handful at the hospitals in Boston itself. The majority of DO's in Mass. are well away from the city. So I wouldn't really say you see a saturation of DO's in this area.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't know about the Northeast & DO's. There are hardly ANY around here in Massachusetts. There is a total of ONE at the hospital I've been working at outside of Boston for over a year, and just a handful at the hospitals in Boston itself. The majority of DO's in Mass. are well away from the city. So I wouldn't really say you see a saturation of DO's in this area.

There isn't a DO school in Mass. The rationale for a low percentage of DO's in Mass. is thus self-explanatory....

Another explanation could be that DO's don't like Tom Brady....

 

[AlberttheGator]

I don't know about the Northeast & DO's. There are hardly ANY around here in Massachusetts. There is a total of ONE at the hospital I've been working at outside of Boston for over a year, and just a handful at the hospitals in Boston itself. The majority of DO's in Mass. are well away from the city. So I wouldn't really say you see a saturation of DO's in this area.

Well I meant as the NE "corridor": NJ, NY, and PA.
I don't think Mass. is considered part of that corridor that leads to the upper NE.

And of course they are going to be scarce in Mass. as there is no DO school in Mass and DOs make up roughly 5-6% of the whole physician population.

 

[Mr. McDuck]

Plenty of DOs in NJ. My doc is a DO and a lot of the surgeons I work with are DOs, but I'm also relatively near UMDNJ-SOM.

 

[DrFeelgoodMD]

IMO, if residency is your issue I say go D.O.

If you just want to be a primary care physician, don't agree with the osteopathic philosophy, and really want that M.D. behind your name then go carib. if and only if you get into SGU.

You know....I was browsing through SGU's list of residency positions for their 2006 graduating class and although most of them were going into FP, IM, or peds...I found many who got into specialties like surgery, neurology, etc.

I guess if you work hard enough down there you can get a good residency regardless of what school you went to.

J

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm not a DO basher and came very close to attending an osteopathic school, but the primary care rankings are total bunk, imo.

I agree. I also think the research rankings are total bunk. These "rankings" are a way that a mediocre-at-best privately owned newsmag sells its biggest title. Period. Their criteria is pretty voodoo. IMHO, board scores are a much better indication of a school than how much federal research money it has. I think the value of USN&WR rankings are far more respected by premeds than anyone else.

Much like the DO vs. MD thang.

The problem is that part of the rankings are based on the number of students who pursue primary care residencies, which doesn't really say anything about the quality of the school in preparing primary care physicians.

I'd be curious about that. Most of the schools high on the list do not have a particularly high percentage of grads going into primary care compared to those that didn't make the list. But regardless, you're right. More voodoo.

 

[mshollywoodmd]

Makes sense. That's the stupider of the two.

🙂 Kinda late in the thread, but it still made me smile.

 

[Orthodoc40]

Well I meant as the NE "corridor": NJ, NY, and PA.
I don't think Mass. is considered part of that corridor that leads to the upper NE.

And of course they are going to be scarce in Mass. as there is no DO school in Mass and DOs make up roughly 5-6% of the whole physician population.

Ahh -- Northeast CORRIDOR... Gotcha.

There's no school in MA but Biddeford is pretty darn close by...

 

[thesauce]

By the way have any of you guys who have had doubts about being a D.O. ever shadowed one? I think this will answer all the questions you will have about the legitimacy of a D.O.

So you're saying that ANY DO that we shadow will represent DOs as a whole? No, I'm sorry, they're just as variable in quality as MDs.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I agree. I also think the research rankings are total bunk. These "rankings" are a way that a mediocre-at-best privately owned newsmag sells its biggest title. Period. Their criteria is pretty voodoo. IMHO, board scores are a much better indication of a school than how much federal research money it has. I think the value of USN&WR rankings are far more respected by premeds than anyone else.

Much like the DO vs. MD thang.


I'd be curious about that. Most of the schools high on the list do not have a particularly high percentage of grads going into primary care compared to those that didn't make the list. But regardless, you're right. More voodoo.

If you look at USNews's description of their methodology, they state that .30 (presumably out of 1 -- will need to look again) is based on the number of students who go into primary care, so it is definitely considered. It's not the only consiration, but if say 80% of your students pursue primary care, it has to be a big boost in the rankings.

 

[DoctorPardi]

Yeah - ouch. That one is gonna hurt for sure...

How many superbowls, playoff games, and regular season games were won by the foot of Mr. Vinatieri?

 

[arrowsmith2]

Guys which one has a better chance for residencies? DO from the States or MD from Caribbean?

US allo > SGU, Ross, Saba, AUC > US osteo > the remaining Carib schools.

Very few DO residencies are worth consideration, and will indeed severely limit your employment options.

Always look at the match lists from these schools. And always discard any DO matches. This will give you a good indication of where you should attend.

Good luck!

 

[arrowsmith2]

Oh... and BTW, for those of you who didn't know, this site is owned & heavily moderated by osteopaths. Most posts by those who don't enthusiastically embrace this "equivalency" with allo that exists nowhere, soon find their accounts "banned for trolling."

You'll find better and less moderated discussions on "Rebel SDN" (www.studentdoctors.net -- but you need someone to vouch for you in order to join).

Enjoy!

 

[DoctorPardi]

Oh... and BTW, for those of you who didn't know, this site is owned & heavily moderated by osteopaths. Most posts by those who don't enthusiastically embrace this "equivalency" with allo that exists nowhere, soon find their accounts "banned for trolling."

You'll find better and less moderated discussions on "Rebel SDN" (www.studentdoctors.net -- but you need someone to vouch for you in order to join).

Enjoy!

I think you probably should be banned just for being an idiot. I doubt I would find better discussion and less moderated you can't be serious? Come on, how often do you even see mods "moderating"? when they do it is because someone posted a , "who thinks Dr. Ray is SUPR HAWT?!?!" thread in the pre-allo forum or something.

 

[arrowsmith2]

I think you probably should be banned just for being an idiot.

Nice! No opinions allowed. Particularly ones that even suggest this site goes out of its way to promote osteopathy. You'll fit in fine here. 😉

 

[arrowsmith2]

And if you find yourself among lucky the ones to have actually seen this post/thread before it was locked/deleted, consider yourself fortunate and cherish this moment. And be sure to meander over to the Step I or residency forums where you'll find a plethora of "Oh ****, I can't believe I'm graduating from DO school. I didn't pass the USMLE, but got a 98% on COMLEX. What are my options now?" 😱

 

[notdeadyet]

And if you find yourself among lucky the ones to have actually seen this post/thread before it was locked/deleted,

I assume that this is a new account from an old user who has been banned?

 

[DoctorPardi]

I assume that this is a new account from an old user who has been banned?

Yeah disgruntled because he got banned because he talked bad about DO's then realized he didn't have the grades to get into Allopathic medical school lol.

 

[OSUdoc08]

US allo > SGU, Ross, Saba, AUC > US osteo > the remaining Carib schools.

Very few DO residencies are worth consideration, and will indeed severely limit your employment options.

Always look at the match lists from these schools. And always discard any DO matches. This will give you a good indication of where you should attend.

Good luck!

WOW !! Thanks for the helpful post!

You seem to be very intelligent!